Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Andy B on 18 April 2017, 11:18:00
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39629603
Heads or tails? :y
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That should underline the Tory majority and perhaps see the subsequent resignation of Corbyn.
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...on June 8th. The permutations of how and why people will vote are infinite. Do we get behind the government with regards to Brexit or do we see it as a chance to reverse the referendum?
Fascinating times.
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Almost 50% of people voted to remain, and a lot of those were tories. Let's see.
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I predict a Tory landslide and the SNP will be neutered as well! :y
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I predict a Tory landslide and the SNP will be neutered as well! :y
That will make their eyes water. :o
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You know, Theresa May could get a right kicking here. If all the people who didn't bother voting in the referendum, because they thought remain was a forgone conclusion, now turn out to try to keep us in, and all the benefit claimants who have had enough of cuts, and all the educationalists who are fuming over cuts and grammar schools, and all the doctors and nurses who think the NHS is broken turn out in force...well. :-\
She is taking a big risk.
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You know, Theresa May could get a right kicking here. If all the people who didn't bother voting in the referendum, because they thought remain was a forgone conclusion, now turn out to try to keep us in, and all the benefit claimants who have had enough of cuts, and all the educationalists who are fuming over cuts and grammar schools, and all the doctors and nurses who think the NHS is broken turn out in force...well. :-\
She is taking a big risk.
The only (big) parties that have publically stated they'll try and keep us in the EU are the Lib-Dems and the SNP. So will enough people vote Lib-Deb & SNP to create a hung parliament? And even if they do, will the EU courts rule that Art50 is reversible?
Can't see this being good news for Labour though. I suspect they'll get the smallest vote for ages.
Also interesting what Teresa May thinks is going to happen wrt the Fixed term parliament act.
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I predict a Tory landslide. Possibly the biggest majority of modern times.
Her manifesto will include real Brexit, rather than fake Brexit. It may well also include reform of the Lords (she owes them one), large cuts in foreign aid, more funding for the NHS and Education, and many more Grammar schools.
In this scenario, I could be tempted to vote Tory for the first time ever. :)
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So the journalist news feast has started; the BBC has interrupted it's normal schedule on BBC1 and is regurgitating continually Mrs May's statement, and everything is being analysed over and over again. That is all with one hour of the "big announcement!"
Even as a student of politics, please give me strength for the next six weeks of the same!! ::) ::) ::) ::)
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I predict a Tory landslide. Possibly the biggest majority of modern times.
Her manifesto will include real Brexit, rather than fake Brexit. It may well also include reform of the Lords (she owes them one), large cuts in foreign aid, more funding for the NHS and Education, and many more Grammar schools.
In this scenario, I could be tempted to vote Tory for the first time ever. :)
I heartily agree, as what is the opposition? To me there is none! ;)
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So the journalist news feast has started; the BBC has interrupted it's normal schedule on BBC1 and is regurgitating continually Mrs May's statement, and everything is being analysed over and over again. That is all with one hour of the "big announcement!"
Even as a student of politics, please give me strength for the next six weeks of the same!! ::) ::) ::) ::)
I'm going into hibernation for a few weeks, I'll emerge on voting day
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So the journalist news feast has started; the BBC has interrupted it's normal schedule on BBC1 and is regurgitating continually Mrs May's statement, and everything is being analysed over and over again. That is all with one hour of the "big announcement!"
Even as a student of politics, please give me strength for the next six weeks of the same!! ::) ::) ::) ::)
I'm going into hibernation for a few weeks, I'll emerge on voting day
Now that is a great idea! ;D ;D :y
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I have now sought another TV channel to watch: BBC2 Daily Politics; ITV1 News, which is all about the "statement" and what it means! ::) ::) ::)
Oh, well now on to the multitude of other channels. Thank God we have the Tech of 2017!! ;D ;D ;D
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And on June 7th, Corbyn will be cut to shreds by his own party, who will force him out by any means, if he doesn't resign of his own volition.
A good strong Govt. with a large majority is what the country needs at the moment imo. We are in difficult and uncertain times,and constant argument among the many political pygmies on the political scene these days, doesn't help one bit.
As a lapsed UKIP member I think that UKIP wont figure at all this time round. They could have had a future post Brexit, but Nuttall and the nutters within the organisation have blown it.
My own MP James Cleverly, is a great bloke. He lives about a mile from me, and is always out & about in the local area talking to his constituents, which is a rare thing these days it seems.
His personal tribute to the PC who was murdered at Westminster recently, brought a lump to my throat, and showed what a genuine man he really is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v22E7to4WOc
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Liebour have said they will support GE vote, so will get 2/3 majority to pass act to overrule fixed term.
It is a brave, bold and understandable decision. It will give her a mandate (unlike Gordon McRuin in similar circumstances). Recent poll shows that 55% now support #Brexit. It is a window of opportunity to get a strong mandate before detailed EU negotiations start and means that #Brexit will be well past and implemented before she needs to go to the country again.
I personally think the Tories will do better than in last GE, especially in Scotland at the expense of Liebour and Jimmy Krankie's SNP whose popularity has been falling.
IMO Liebour will lose lots of seats and the FibDims will gain a few and the Green Fantasist party may double in size to two MP's. I also think Douglas Carswell will win as an Independent at UBrick's expense. I can't see UBrick doing very well after their recent North of England by-election results.
Going to be an interesting 7 weeks (not) for TV addicts. I happy to say I won't have to endure 7 weeks on GE TV coverage, where I no longer bore myself stupid by watching TV. :y :y :y
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I also think the Limpdems will gain some seats at Labours expense. The SNP Im not sure about tbh, but I hope wee Jimmy gets a kicking.
I suspect Carswell could be in for a shock, but that may be just wishful thinking on my part. I find him loathsome.
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Hope for tory landslide, genuinely afraid that Corbyn could get anywhere near power.
My predication:
1. Torys with good majority.
2. Possible Lib Dems second, due to protest votes against Labour.
3. Labour distant 3rd.
Possible that Labour could loose official opposition status? That would be the icing on the cake!
Without Scotland, I don't think Labour has any chance (hopefully) of getting any kind of traction.
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You know, Theresa May could get a right kicking here. If all the people who didn't bother voting in the referendum, because they thought remain was a forgone conclusion, now turn out to try to keep us in, and all the benefit claimants who have had enough of cuts, and all the educationalists who are fuming over cuts and grammar schools, and all the doctors and nurses who think the NHS is broken turn out in force...well. :-\
She is taking a big risk.
The only (big) parties that have publically stated they'll try and keep us in the EU are the Lib-Dems and the SNP. So will enough people vote Lib-Deb & SNP to create a hung parliament? And even if they do, will the EU courts rule that Art50 is reversible?
Can't see this being good news for Labour though. I suspect they'll get the smallest vote for ages.
Also interesting what Teresa May thinks is going to happen wrt the Fixed term parliament act.
On the balance of probabilities, Labour could be annihilated. If they changed their minds and campaigned on the platform of remaining in the EU, they just might get a lot more votes. Unlikely, maybe, but better than being wiped out, surely?
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I doubt Labour will lose badly enough to lose official opposition status, but I'm sure they will get the worst hiding they have ever had.
Corbyn will never ever get a sniff of real power unless the only votes which count are those cast on University campuses.
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I have never voted Tory but Corbyn is too much of a 'leftie' even for me.
I voted to 'remain' but that is already done and dusted (I think) so I won't vote on that basis.
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I have never voted Tory but Corbyn is too much of a 'leftie' even for me.
I voted to 'remain' but that is already done and dusted (I think) so I won't vote on that basis.
Suggesting that you will do so?
About time you updated your avatar then! :D
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None of this really matters to me, because of where I live. ::)
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You know, Theresa May could get a right kicking here. If all the people who didn't bother voting in the referendum, because they thought remain was a forgone conclusion, now turn out to try to keep us in, and all the benefit claimants who have had enough of cuts, and all the educationalists who are fuming over cuts and grammar schools, and all the doctors and nurses who think the NHS is broken turn out in force...well. :-\
She is taking a big risk.
The only (big) parties that have publically stated they'll try and keep us in the EU are the Lib-Dems and the SNP. So will enough people vote Lib-Deb & SNP to create a hung parliament? And even if they do, will the EU courts rule that Art50 is reversible?
Can't see this being good news for Labour though. I suspect they'll get the smallest vote for ages.
Also interesting what Teresa May thinks is going to happen wrt the Fixed term parliament act.
On the balance of probabilities, Labour could be annihilated. If they changed their minds and campaigned on the platform of remaining in the EU, they just might get a lot more votes. Unlikely, maybe, but better than being wiped out, surely?
The problem with that is that Corbyn doesn't believe we should be in the EU. That is well known and he would be adding hypocritical opportunist to the long list of reasons why he shouldn't be trusted with peoples votes.
His lifelong support of the IRA and Hamas mean that no rational grown up will vote for him in any case. The Tories will constantly remind everyone of these things over the next 7 weeks. ;)
As for the educationalists and NHS devotees, I suspect the steam will be taken out of their argument, by substantial increases in funding being part of the Tory manifesto at the expense of foreign aid.
If they don't take that route they will be missing the most obvious vote winning trick they have at the moment.
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None of this really matters to me, because of where I live. ::)
Nor me. The Tory vote is more than double the total opposition vote
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No rational grown up was supposed to vote leave.....according to the remainers. I think everything is up for grabs.
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None of this really matters to me, because of where I live. ::)
Yeah no one really gives a sh*t what happens up there :P ;D
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None of this really matters to me, because of where I live. ::)
Nor me. The Tory vote is more than double the total opposition vote
Even the ex miners I speak to admit that if you paraded a donkey wearing a red rosette it would get voted in.
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But the remainers weren't rational...........according to the leavers. :D
I would bet good money that the Tories win a huge majority. ;)
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None of this really matters to me, because of where I live. ::)
Yeah no one really gives a sh*t what happens up there :P ;D
Shouldn't you be waiting for Murdock to tell you what you think before speaking?
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But the remainers weren't rational...........according to the leavers. :D
I would bet good money that the Tories win a huge majority. ;)
Then do so, lots of people lost money on Brexit. :)
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None of this really matters to me, because of where I live. ::)
Nor me. The Tory vote is more than double the total opposition vote
Even the ex miners I speak to admit that if you paraded a donkey wearing a red rosette it would get voted in.
And that is the thing that Nutall was supposed to change. He fell at the first fence and consigned UKIP to the history books - probably.
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SWMBO is bloody furious with Mrs May . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . >:(
They've cancelled Bargain Hunt on TV . . . . . . . . and got election stuff instead ::)
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But the remainers weren't rational...........according to the leavers. :D
I would bet good money that the Tories win a huge majority. ;)
Then do so, lots of people lost money on Brexit. :)
I might just do that. :y
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None of this really matters to me, because of where I live. ::)
Yeah no one really gives a sh*t what happens up there :P ;D
Shouldn't you be waiting for Murdock to tell you what you think before speaking?
Tut,tut. ::) ;D
If uncle Rupert were soon to be my new boss I would be worried. He will probably want to get rid of half the staff asap, to start getting a return on his billions. And he cant have that much time left on earth to see the return. ;D ::)
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None of this really matters to me, because of where I live. ::)
Yeah no one really gives a sh*t what happens up there :P ;D
Shouldn't you be waiting for Murdock to tell you what you think before speaking?
Nope :P
He only owns 39% for now at least, personally, I wish it would happen quicker. I stand to do quite well out of the sale :D
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You hope. I wouldn't trust the little sh1t as far as I could throw him. ;)
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None of this really matters to me, because of where I live. ::)
Yeah no one really gives a sh*t what happens up there :P ;D
Shouldn't you be waiting for Murdock to tell you what you think before speaking?
Nope :P
He only owns 39% for now at least, personally, I wish it would happen quicker. I stand to do quite well out of the sale :D
Shares can go down, as well as up, and I would think you'll be required to hang on to them for a time.
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But the remainers weren't rational...........according to the leavers. :D
I would bet good money that the Tories win a huge majority. ;)
Then do so, lots of people lost money on Brexit. :)
Anyway, its ok for you to sit there typing this stuff all day. You don't have an Omega to constantly tinker with. I do, so I will be back later. :P ;D
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You hope. I wouldn't trust the little sh1t as far as I could throw him. ;)
Well it's not him which has outlined the impact of sale deal on staff, that's all SkyUK. Basically some commitments I made late last year, I will be bought out of and it's all rather generous.
Just in time to buy a mummy bus!
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Liebour have said they will support GE vote, so will get 2/3 majority to pass act to overrule fixed term.
It is a brave, bold and understandable decision. It will give her a mandate (unlike Gordon McRuin in similar circumstances). Recent poll shows that 55% now support #Brexit. It is a window of opportunity to get a strong mandate before detailed EU negotiations start and means that #Brexit will be well past and implemented before she needs to go to the country again.
I personally think the Tories will do better than in last GE, especially in Scotland at the expense of Liebour and Jimmy Krankie's SNP whose popularity has been falling.
IMO Liebour will lose lots of seats and the FibDims will gain a few and the Green Fantasist party may double in size to two MP's. I also think Douglas Carswell will win as an Independent at UBrick's expense. I can't see UBrick doing very well after their recent North of England by-election results.
Going to be an interesting 7 weeks (not) for TV addicts. I happy to say I won't have to endure 7 weeks on GE TV coverage, where I no longer bore myself stupid by watching TV. :y :y :y
I agree with your assessment. Labour are going to be badly hurt, and with Scottish Independence being now at risk from falling potential Scottish revenue post the event, the SNP are likely to have power eroded in Scotland. Lib -Dems to me are the unknown, but potentially weak link. They are not exactly attracting voters from Labour, but with no alternative, what is the choice? The Lib-Dems last three Political Broadcasts were a repeat everytime, and a boring account of life repeating itself. They will never inspire me a Conservative Socialist.
Yes Rod, the sensible thing to do is stay away from TV, and certainly it will give me the bonus of far more time for reading and studying history. Now that is far more exciting!! :D :D :D :y
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'Tessie May' will walk it just as Churchill did in 1945........except he didn't.
The unassuming socialist Clement Attlee won a landslide majority and dear old booze-soaked 'Winnie' ended up with a properly kicked arse. Shit happens. :)
I still think Theresa will win but who would have thought that a gobby, ginger-pubed old man could become POTUS?
.......and then we have Marine Le Pen. Her chances of getting the top job in France were laughable only a short time ago.
Interesting. :y
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They're pretty quick off the mark up here. A disheveled old chap has just put a 'Vote Labour' leaflet through my door. ;D
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But the remainers weren't rational...........according to the leavers. :D
I would bet good money that the Tories win a huge majority. ;)
Then do so, lots of people lost money on Brexit. :)
Except Me ;D ;D ;D Do you remember STEMO
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They're pretty quick off the mark up here. A disheveled old chap has just put a 'Vote Labour' leaflet through my door. ;D
Corbyn himself? :o
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SWMBO is bloody furious with Mrs May . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . >:(
They've cancelled Bargain Hunt on TV . . . . . . . . and got election stuff instead ::)
Every cloud has a silver lining. :D
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I have never voted Tory but Corbyn is too much of a 'leftie' even for me.
I voted to 'remain' but that is already done and dusted (I think) so I won't vote on that basis.
Suggesting that you will do so?
About time you updated your avatar then! :D
Yes Edwina Currie is a good match for our Lord Opti, or maybe Ann Widdecombe. She can dance you know! :y :D ;D
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'Tessie May' will walk it just as Churchill did in 1945........except he didn't.
The unassuming socialist Clement Attlee won a landslide majority and dear old booze-soaked 'Winnie' ended up with a properly kicked arse. Shit happens. :)
I still think Theresa will win but who would have thought that a gobby, ginger-pubed old man could become POTUS?
.......and then we have Marine Le Pen. Her chances of getting the top job in France were laughable only a short time ago.
Interesting. :y
That was a totally different situation Opti. Churchill was a great war leader, but he was not a good peacetime prime minister. He was a "Toff" and recognised as such in a Country screaming out for social change in a new post war world. The British working and middle classes did not want to return from the war and find nothing had changed on the social scales, as after WW1. The soldiers still serving abroad, and those at home, voted overwhelming for that change. A new Socialist approach to Education with the Butler Act of 1944, by a Conservative, but working within a coalition including powerful Labour forces for change that help construct it. Then there was the Labour push for universal health care, based on the Beverage Report of 1942 that would push for social reform, including the introduction of the National Insurance Act of 1946 that would later lead on to the creation of the National Health Service of 1948. Nationalisation of the railways was always being pushed for, along with nationalisation of other industries, such as coal mining, combining with other socialist aims. To those fed up with a rigid class structure that did not favour the working class, and Churchill represented that sector, Clement Attlee and Labour had to have the advantage, and they took it, changing British history dramatically.
The Conservatives returning to power under Churchill in 1951 is another story that can be debated endlessly. :y
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Labour are pretty well opposed... Even if they shot Corbyn now and ate him for tea, it would take them six months for the unions to decide who will be dessert ::)
And no-one of any mind, let alone a sound one, would vote Labour in this decade or the next...
As for Brexit, that's set in stone so voting for a management change will guarantee a return to the Dark Ages.
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I think this is a big gamble for Mrs May. Who wins depends upon what she is forced to promise in the manifesto.
Labour Right wing and remainer voters will likely switch to LibDem.
Remainer Conservatives will likely switch to LibDem.
UKIP voters in the south will likely vote Conservative.
UKIP voters in the north? Dunno. They'll probably go back to how they used to vote.
SNP - not much change.
So what matters is how many votes the Con's think they're going to lose to LD but gain from UKIP, and what effect that has on the seats they win/lose. They'll need to avoid alienating their core voters, which presents problems with abolishing things like the triple lock on pensions, or promising not to increase taxes.
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As for the educationalists and NHS devotees, I suspect the steam will be taken out of their argument, by substantial increases in funding being part of the Tory manifesto at the expense of foreign aid.
If they don't take that route they will be missing the most obvious vote winning trick they have at the moment.
Foreign aid is 0.7% of GDP, amounting to around 12bn last year.
Education is 6%, Defence 8%, Benefits 8%, NHS 23% and pensions 26%.
Scrapping the foreign aid budget will make naff all difference to any of the big 5 spending departments, and the only people that will believe it will be those that believed the £350Bn number on the side of a bus.
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Million.
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But the average Jo on the street has no idea of the numbers, by simply committing to not giving aid to countries with Nuclear arms and instead diverting to OAP care you move, what is in reality a small amount but, the person on the street sees it as a great thing and ticks the box.
Hard reality is that there is no opposition and Ms May needs a greater majority in parliament to stand any hope of getting us out of Europe this Millennium.
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Million.
Oops, Million, Billion - the people that believed the figure wouldn't know the difference anyway. The problem is that any politician that uses that argument to mislead the gullible should be branded a liar immediately.
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Goodbye Corbyn..
:y :y
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INzj-n_dD2Y&feature=share
Thought he sounded about right
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Oh dear, another 6 weeks of unbearable claptrap >:(
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Goodbye Corbyn..
:y :y
He must be poooing his pants at the prospect of having to try and look like a prospective credible PM ::)
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Goodbye Corbyn..
:y :y
He must be poooing his pants at the prospect of having to try and look like a prospective credible PM ::)
The British public is incredibly thick, and now everyone is fed up with Brexit, the useless idiot will bang on about feeding more cash into the NHS (and not saying where that's coming from, as we've run out of rich people, and rich companies are shipping out)
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What the UK Leave and US POTUS election campaigns show is that using big data for carefully targeted messages through social media is cheap and much more effective than traditional methods of reaching voters. The Conservatives have been much worse than Liebour with their election campaigning since the early 1990's, so IMO the parties that embrace targeted social media campaigning the best will punch above their weight. ??? ??? ???
Which parties will get the Putin hacking, trolling and conspiracy disinformation fake news websites boost? As Liebour under Corbyn and UBrick are admirers they must be the leading candidates. ::) ::) ::)
I'm sure MI5/MI6 and GCHQ will be much more on the ball with arsebook and shitter being forced to filter out and take down fake news much more effectively than they did in 2016.
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Round here it would take something of a seismic change in voting patterns for Labour not to win the seat.Personally I've never been a fan of the Tories,but really at present I see no credible alternative.
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. . . . so IMO the parties that embrace targeted social media campaigning the best will punch above their weight. ??? ??? ???
Which parties will get the Putin hacking, trolling and conspiracy disinformation fake news websites boost? As Liebour under Corbyn and UBrick are admirers they must be the leading candidates. ::) ::) ::)
I'm sure MI5/MI6 and GCHQ will be much more on the ball with arsebook and shitter being forced to filter out and take down fake news much more effectively than they did in 2016.
Probably right unfortunately. I know that some of the left wing anti-Brexit stuff that's being peddled is downright bizarre. But, it gets reposted etc, so it works. >:(
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Tell a lie often enough.... ::)
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None of this really matters to me, because of where I live. ::)
Yeah no one really gives a sh*t what happens up there :P ;D
Shouldn't you be waiting for Murdock to tell you what you think before speaking?
Nope :P
He only owns 39% for now at least, personally, I wish it would happen quicker. I stand to do quite well out of the sale :D
Shares can go down, as well as up, and I would think you'll be required to hang on to them for a time.
That's not always the case. I was working for an O2 subsidiary when Telefonica came along. They underwrote future profits on the employee share save scheme - despite there being 4 years to go before the scheme finished. Needless to say lots of people ended up paying capital gains tax.
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None of this really matters to me, because of where I live. ::)
Yeah no one really gives a sh*t what happens up there :P ;D
Shouldn't you be waiting for Murdock to tell you what you think before speaking?
Nope :P
He only owns 39% for now at least, personally, I wish it would happen quicker. I stand to do quite well out of the sale :D
Shares can go down, as well as up, and I would think you'll be required to hang on to them for a time.
Nope. :)
All sold on completion at £10.75 a share, savings already built up will not be liable for tax. But scheme I entered into last year, which started this Feb for 3 years I will be bought out at £10.75 a share, I will be paid the gain I would have achieved over the 3 years. But this will be liable for tax sadly, but still it's a good deal.
Given my share purchase prices range from £5 to £7 a share, it's not all bad. :)
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So I see that No 10 has said that Theresa May won't be taking part in the live TV debates that have been held ahead of recent election/referendums etc.
Although Corbyn has already accused her of dodging, I'll bet that he's quietly relieved. I've always thought that the only people who do well out of these are the TV companies. They are more about who is the best performer than who actually has a stronger case. If we want a performer to run the country the we just elect whoever has the most Oscars. Having said that, historically good performers and orators have always featured prominently as politicians. Winston Churchill was of course one of our greatest PMs and a great orator, but then again Tony Bliar was also an excellent speaker/performer ???
I for one am happy for there NOT to be live TV debates, they are just about spectacle not policy.
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So I see that No 10 has said that Theresa May won't be taking part in the live TV debates that have been held ahead of recent election/referendums etc.
Although Corbyn has already accused her of dodging, I'll bet that he's quietly relieved. I've always thought that the only people who do well out of these are the TV companies. They are more about who is the best performer than who actually has a stronger case. If we want a performer to run the country the we just elect whoever has the most Oscars. Having said that, historically good performers and orators have always featured prominently as politicians. Winston Churchill was of course one of our greatest PMs and a great orator, but then again Tony Bliar was also an excellent speaker/performer ???
I for one am happy for there NOT to be live TV debates, they are just about spectacle not policy.
+ 1
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I'm happy for there to be absolutely no media coverage at all. Afterall, none of its useful, due to bias.
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They may well hold the TV debates without her, which might damage her to some extent, but I think she is in a position where she cant lose.
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I'm happy for there to be absolutely no media coverage at all. Afterall, none of its useful, due to bias.
That's just not true. The Dail Mail is completely impartial and unbiased ;D
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I'm happy for there to be absolutely no media coverage at all. Afterall, none of its useful, due to bias.
That's just not true. The Dail Mail is completely impartial and unbiased ;D
But only once you have wiped your arse with it ;)
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I'm happy for there to be absolutely no media coverage at all. Afterall, none of its useful, due to bias.
That's just not true. The Dail Mail is completely impartial and unbiased ;D
But only once you have wiped while you are wiping your arse with it ;)
FTFY. :y
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Ken Clarke is up for a bit, maybe Tessy has that certain appeal to older men :-\
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Posh bird like that :-* .............."we need to be quiet, my hubby might hear us"
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So......the tories want to ditch the triple lock on pensions and have the option to increase taxes. Two(so far) meaningful changes to their manifesto.
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And both positive ones.
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And both positive ones.
Two positive ones for you, two negative ones for me. A hung parliament will really fick things up, and pensioners are a potent force.
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How could tax increases be a positive move ? There is no such thing as a successful, thriving, dynamic, high tax economy.
I don't trust Theresa May and I trust Hammond even less, but accept there is no alternative.
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How could tax increases be a positive move ? There is no such thing as a successful, thriving, dynamic, high tax economy.
I don't trust Theresa May and I trust Hammond even less, but accept there is no alternative.
But somebody has to pay for silly little whims like the NHS. Accounted to be approx. £130bn but with other related projects, most economists believe to be more than £200bn.
Aprox 23m people in full time work.
£130-200bn/23m = approx. (CBA to work it out) £5.5 - 8.5k per working person, pa. Just for NHS. That's before we consider the lame and lazy. Or the every increasing adult social care budget. Or state pension. Or Police, army and so on. Then there is the construction costs of that Birmingham to London white elephant, which has already massively crept up from the lies of £18bn at all the hosted events - phase 1 won't come in below £50-75bn, then you need to consider that its going to need about 70% subsidy on every ticket, far higher than the 50% subsidy on other train tickets. Then we try to knacker our own manufacturing industry (hence tax income), by removing their biggest market.
I ain't saying high taxes are good. Quite the contrary. But some people really do need to wake up and smell the roses, because they ain't got a grip on reality >:(
(not aimed at quotee, was just a convenient thing to quote)
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Income tax makes up about a quarter of the governments revenue, so a very large proportion, but not the be all and end all.
I think people will be a bit suspicious because, despite Mother Theresa saying the snap election was about getting a clear mandate over brexit, some may see it as an excuse to revenue-raise mid parliament. Hammond wanted to raise NI for some in his last budget but was kicked in the gonads. That hurts and this may be his way around it. If it is, then it's just another broken promise, and people will be rightly pissed off.
I said on day one, when everyone was predicting a landslide.......don't count your chickens. People are not interested in what's best for the country, they're interested in what's good for them. Human nature.
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How could tax increases be a positive move ? There is no such thing as a successful, thriving, dynamic, high tax economy.
I don't trust Theresa May and I trust Hammond even less, but accept there is no alternative.
But somebody has to pay for silly little whims like the NHS. Accounted to be approx. £130bn but with other related projects, most economists believe to be more than £200bn.
Aprox 23m people in full time work.
£130-200bn/23m = approx. (CBA to work it out) £5.5 - 8.5k per working person, pa. Just for NHS. That's before we consider the lame and lazy. Or the every increasing adult social care budget. Or state pension. Or Police, army and so on. Then there is the construction costs of that Birmingham to London white elephant, which has already massively crept up from the lies of £18bn at all the hosted events - phase 1 won't come in below £50-75bn, then you need to consider that its going to need about 70% subsidy on every ticket, far higher than the 50% subsidy on other train tickets. Then we try to knacker our own manufacturing industry (hence tax income), by removing their biggest market.
I ain't saying high taxes are good. Quite the contrary. But some people really do need to wake up and smell the roses, because they ain't got a grip on reality >:(
(not aimed at quotee, was just a convenient thing to quote)
Absolutely right! :y :y :y
Cameron was foolish to promise no tax or NI increases. Our "wants" in life, Socialist needs like the Education, NHS, Welfare State, Social Services etc all have to be paid for, and the bill is going up. We have to pay for that as the Government has no money of it's own - news to some people out there!
Then, from a Conservative point of view we want good Defence (in a time of growing international tensions), Police and general security for our country. It all has to be paid for.
Our kindly grandfather figure Corbyn cannot come up with any other conclusions than the above, but he will try to as a Red Socialist who thinks there are many millions of very wealthy people who should stump up with billions more pounds! What a dreamer!
Mind you he could always scrape our nuclear deterrent and leave us totally vulnerable to everyone...................!! ::) ::) ::)
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How could tax increases be a positive move ? There is no such thing as a successful, thriving, dynamic, high tax economy.
I don't trust Theresa May and I trust Hammond even less, but accept there is no alternative.
But somebody has to pay for silly little whims like the NHS. Accounted to be approx. £130bn but with other related projects, most economists believe to be more than £200bn.
Aprox 23m people in full time work.
£130-200bn/23m = approx. (CBA to work it out) £5.5 - 8.5k per working person, pa. Just for NHS. That's before we consider the lame and lazy. Or the every increasing adult social care budget. Or state pension. Or Police, army and so on. Then there is the construction costs of that Birmingham to London white elephant, which has already massively crept up from the lies of £18bn at all the hosted events - phase 1 won't come in below £50-75bn, then you need to consider that its going to need about 70% subsidy on every ticket, far higher than the 50% subsidy on other train tickets. Then we try to knacker our own manufacturing industry (hence tax income), by removing their biggest market.
I ain't saying high taxes are good. Quite the contrary. But some people really do need to wake up and smell the roses, because they ain't got a grip on reality >:(
(not aimed at quotee, was just a convenient thing to quote)
Low taxation, low regulation, low state interference - high growth, is the only way to pay the bills. Taxing wealth creators "till the pips squeak" has been tried over and over, and failed catastrophically every time. ;)
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How could tax increases be a positive move ? There is no such thing as a successful, thriving, dynamic, high tax economy.
I don't trust Theresa May and I trust Hammond even less, but accept there is no alternative.
But somebody has to pay for silly little whims like the NHS. Accounted to be approx. £130bn but with other related projects, most economists believe to be more than £200bn.
Aprox 23m people in full time work.
£130-200bn/23m = approx. (CBA to work it out) £5.5 - 8.5k per working person, pa. Just for NHS. That's before we consider the lame and lazy. Or the every increasing adult social care budget. Or state pension. Or Police, army and so on. Then there is the construction costs of that Birmingham to London white elephant, which has already massively crept up from the lies of £18bn at all the hosted events - phase 1 won't come in below £50-75bn, then you need to consider that its going to need about 70% subsidy on every ticket, far higher than the 50% subsidy on other train tickets. Then we try to knacker our own manufacturing industry (hence tax income), by removing their biggest market.
I ain't saying high taxes are good. Quite the contrary. But some people really do need to wake up and smell the roses, because they ain't got a grip on reality >:(
(not aimed at quotee, was just a convenient thing to quote)
Low taxation, low regulation, low state interference - high growth, is the only way to pay the bills. Taxing wealth creators "till the pips squeak" has been tried over and over, and failed catastrophically every time. ;)
I agree that high growth would greatly help, but the country needs the money now. Even the Chinese have only just achieved +6.9% growth. We need that and more to produce the income the Government needs, but where is that going to come from over the next 5 years? Brexit will be the big uncertainty anyway until we get there, and in the meantime the NHS, Education, etc, etc, will be screaming for more money in the billions with all the bad publicity continuing for the Government. ;)
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How could tax increases be a positive move ? There is no such thing as a successful, thriving, dynamic, high tax economy.
I don't trust Theresa May and I trust Hammond even less, but accept there is no alternative.
But somebody has to pay for silly little whims like the NHS. Accounted to be approx. £130bn but with other related projects, most economists believe to be more than £200bn.
Aprox 23m people in full time work.
£130-200bn/23m = approx. (CBA to work it out) £5.5 - 8.5k per working person, pa. Just for NHS. That's before we consider the lame and lazy. Or the every increasing adult social care budget. Or state pension. Or Police, army and so on. Then there is the construction costs of that Birmingham to London white elephant, which has already massively crept up from the lies of £18bn at all the hosted events - phase 1 won't come in below £50-75bn, then you need to consider that its going to need about 70% subsidy on every ticket, far higher than the 50% subsidy on other train tickets. Then we try to knacker our own manufacturing industry (hence tax income), by removing their biggest market.
I ain't saying high taxes are good. Quite the contrary. But some people really do need to wake up and smell the roses, because they ain't got a grip on reality >:(
(not aimed at quotee, was just a convenient thing to quote)
Low taxation, low regulation, low state interference - high growth, is the only way to pay the bills. Taxing wealth creators "till the pips squeak" has been tried over and over, and failed catastrophically every time. ;)
Denis Healey at the 1978 Labour party conference if memory serves.
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Low taxation, low regulation, low state interference - high growth, is the only way to pay the bills. Taxing wealth creators "till the pips squeak" has been tried over and over, and failed catastrophically every time. ;)
Problem is, we are where we are. Once people get used to a given levels of Education, Health, Pensions, Social services, Defence, etc. it is virtually impossible to reduce the cost. At best you can freeze the spending at current levels and wait for inflation to erode the real cost away. However, the workers in these sectors are unlikley to be happy with pay freezes.
However, in the short term the current spending commitments have to be met. In 2016-17 spending is expected to have been £797bn. Tax revenues are expected to be £721bn. So there is a £74bn overspend (over 10%). Interest rates are at historic low levels so the Govt has been able to borrow the money to cover the shortfall. However, if you can't cut spending then sooner or later you are going to have to increase taxation and if interest rates start to rise, then that'll be sooner rather than later.
The three biggest sources of taxation are Income tax (£229bn), VAT (£168bn), and National Insurance (£130Bn). Some (or all) of these are going to have to go up IMV at least in the short term until the deficit is balanced. Hence what Hammond/May are correct in not wanting to tie their hands over the triple lock or taxation rises.
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Well Corbyn has surprised me today.
He is not ruling out tax rises for others apart from the very wealthy. He has said that low income individuals should not be taxed more, but those who can afford it should be.
Looks like both the Conservatives and Labour will bring in tax increases if re-elected/elected.
For me, as I stated before, tax rises are now essential ;)
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Let those who scream for more money, answer the question where it will come from. That is the only answer to just about every question or statement a socialist asks or makes - "where will the money come from ? " :)
When the last Labour Govt. laid a bear trap in its last weeks In Govt. by increasing the top rate of tax, tax revenues actually decreased.
When it was cut back to its previous level (giving the left a false argument to preach for the next X number of years) revenues increased again.
There is a tipping point with taxation, and I'm pretty sure we are currently sat right on it.
Long term, we need to shrink Government, its client state, the welfare state in all its forms, and the sense of entitlement that decades of Socialism has imprinted into the British mindset.
No easy job though. Thatcher started it,and made some progress, but everyone who came after has put the process into high speed reverse.
At least future Govts. wont be able to blame the EU for the problem, if they don't have the guts to get the job done.
TB - the European market hasn't been taken away from British business, although, as a single entity it will probably disappear in the medium term anyway.
Our trade with markets outside the EU is mostly conducted under WTO rules, and to do the same with the EU isn't the worst case scenario people claim it to be.
However, we will probably strike a deal with them at the last minute just before we leave. They cant afford not to do a deal with the UK.
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He is not ruling out tax rises for others apart from the very wealthy. He has said that low income individuals should not be taxed more, but those who can afford it should be.
The low income individuals pay virtually no tax anyway - the 2017 personal allowance is £11500, and there is no NI below £8000 either.
82% of people pay the basic 20% rate of tax (so earn £11K-45K p/a) which makes up 33% of HMRC income.
15% of people pay the higher 40% rate of tax (so earn £45K-150K p/a) which makes up 37% of HMRC income.
1% of people pay the upper 45% rate tax (so earn £150K+) which makes up 30% of HMRC income.
So who you gonna hit? The 1%, the 15% or the 82% ? I would say that the 1% and 15% already pay their "fair share"
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I couldn't agree more. :y
And are they really going to put VAT up to over 20 % ? :o
Growth and realistic public spending is the only answer.
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He is not ruling out tax rises for others apart from the very wealthy. He has said that low income individuals should not be taxed more, but those who can afford it should be.
The low income individuals pay virtually no tax anyway - the 2017 personal allowance is £11500, and there is no NI below £8000 either.
82% of people pay the basic 20% rate of tax (so earn £11K-45K p/a) which makes up 33% of HMRC income.
15% of people pay the higher 40% rate of tax (so earn £45K-150K p/a) which makes up 37% of HMRC income.
1% of people pay the upper 45% rate tax (so earn £150K+) which makes up 30% of HMRC income.
So who you gonna hit? The 1%, the 15% or the 82% ? I would say that the 1% and 15% already pay their "fair share"
I'm surprised at this, just 15% of the working population pays the 40% band? :-\
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I couldn't agree more. :y
And are they really going to put VAT up to over 20 % ? :o
Growth and realistic public spending is the only answer.
But how are you going to cover the short term shortfall? Growth (even at 2-3%) won't cover a 10% overspend this year, or next year or the year after, and there is no realistic prospect of real public spending cuts either.
Education is 11% of current spending. Are you really proposing to close all the schools and sack all the teachers? Or pensions - 28% of spending, so cut current state pensions from £155p/w to £100 p/w? Or scrap all defence (8% of public spending)?.
There is no realistic way of balancing the books without increasing taxes.
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I'm surprised at this, just 15% of the working population pays the 40% band? :-\
Grauniad figures from 2014 :
https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/jan/27/how-many-pay-top-rate-of-income-tax-uk
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I'm surprised at this, just 15% of the working population pays the 40% band? :-\
Grauniad figures from 2014 :
https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/jan/27/how-many-pay-top-rate-of-income-tax-uk
Amazing how London distorts the picture I guess, I have 6 people in my team, all of which are on the 40% band. I'm one of 180 in the department under a Head Of - Fairly sure every single one is in 40% band, along with around 3 or 4 in the 1%.
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I'm surprised at this, just 15% of the working population pays the 40% band? :-\
Likewise ...... lies, damned lies & statistics I suspect.
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Strikes me that this is just an attempt at blatant bribery.
Over the decades various governments have bribed the electorate with give aways, which is why we have built up such an impractical and unaffordable benefits system, but this one smacks of desperation
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39682388
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I'm surprised at this, just 15% of the working population pays the 40% band? :-\
Grauniad figures from 2014 :
https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/jan/27/how-many-pay-top-rate-of-income-tax-uk
Amazing how London distorts the picture I guess, I have 6 people in my team, all of which are on the 40% band. I'm one of 180 in the department under a Head Of - Fairly sure every single one is in 40% band, along with around 3 or 4 in the 1%.
I'd suggest that even in Londonium, the vast, vast majority of people are standard rate tax payers.
You're seeing a skewed view because what you currently do is specialist, new(ish) and in an area where the company believes investing in - much like our network contractors 15yrs ago, commanding £80-100ph. Every car in the carpark was new, fast and semi exotic. Then it became more mainstream, so they became lest valuable. Much less valuable.
Remember, the average salary remains at mid twenties K. So for all those higher rate tax payers earning £20k over the average, there has to be 4 £20k pa workers.
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Harking back to my post about tax rises if the tories are re-elected, I don't think you saw my point. I might agree that things have to be paid for, but the real question here is one of trust. As I said in an even earlier post, there are people who will see the calling of a snap election as an excuse to renege on earlier promises of keeping the triple lock and no rises in tax till 2020, (along with a cabinet clearout by the sound of things), hidden behind a smokescreen of brexit.
I'm starting to see it as opportunism, thinking that the present showing in the polls gives them the chance to get in with a sizeable majority, even with unpopular policies.
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Also banks her in for 5 years, with potentially 3 years post brexit to get things sorted for another term. It's a brave move, with high risk. But I cannot see huge amounts of Tory consistiancies switchig to Labour.
I think in England she will loose a few to Lib Dems, but gain a few in Scotland.
There is also the point of do Labour MP's want to win? This is their chance to get rid of Corbyn, which they have been trying to do ever since he was elected as leader.
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the calling of a snap election as an excuse to renege on earlier promises of keeping the triple lock and no rises in tax till 2020
Nail on the head Steve, can`t see any other reason
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Labours position is somewhat ironic given that they elected the cod faced loon into the position ::)
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Harking back to my post about tax rises if the tories are re-elected, I don't think you saw my point. I might agree that things have to be paid for, but the real question here is one of trust. As I said in an even earlier post, there are people who will see the calling of a snap election as an excuse to renege on earlier promises of keeping the triple lock and no rises in tax till 2020, (along with a cabinet clearout by the sound of things), hidden behind a smokescreen of brexit.
I'm starting to see it as opportunism, thinking that the present showing in the polls gives them the chance to get in with a sizeable majority, even with unpopular policies.
But, all those promises were in the Conservative 2015 manifesto. Thats in the past. We're yet to see any of the parties 2017 manifestos, but it's those that we'll be voting on. You can argue that the current govt have realised that the 2015 commitments are unsustainable, and are seeking public approval (via a general election) to change them. What could be more democratic?
If no tax rises and maintaining the triple lock are the most important things to you, then vote for a party with those things in their 2017 manifesto. However I suspect it'll have to be someone like the Monster Raving Loony party, because they're the only ones who think such policies are sustainable.
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So...a whole two years ago...when remaining was certainty. I still think it's opportunistic, and an election would not have been called if the polls were closer. But we can discuss it to death on here, the proof of the pudding will be in seven weeks, and a lot can happen in seven weeks.
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I think the major reason she called this election is the fact that quite a few Tory MP,s are close to being prosecuted for electoral fraud.
This story has been bubbling since a few days after the last election, mainly due to it being utterly blatant in Thanet south,but looks like it will come to a head soon.
It could easily leave her with no commons majority and the embarrassment of a dozen or more of her MP,s standing trial, or at least having to resign and standing in by elections.
If they win their seats fair and square this time around, the establishment may well sweep the whole thing under the carpet as it will no longer be in the public interest to proceed with it.
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But, as the beast of Bolsover said, they shouldn't be allowed to stand. Election fraud is a criminal offence, not something to be 'swept under the carpet'.
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Very true in principal, but when did the establishment let principal get in the way of them making sure their boat doesn't get seriously rocked. In fact, that's pretty much how they got themselves into this problem in the first place.
The electoral commission have been told over and over again that this was happening for quite a few years now, but they completely ignored it until things got so bad and so obvious at the last election that it couldn't be ignored any longer.
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Very true in principal, but when did the establishment let principal get in the way of them making sure their boat doesn't get seriously rocked. In fact, that's pretty much how they got themselves into this problem in the first place.
The electoral commission have been told over and over again that this was happening for quite a few years now, but they completely ignored it until things got so bad and so obvious at the last election that it couldn't be ignored any longer.
All it would take is someone with balls, and a few bob, to take this further...much further.
Opti might do it. I'll ask him.
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Someone with balls and money did. His name is Aaron Banks. That's probably a significant part of why the ball got rolling with the police and CPS after years of inaction from the Electoral commission.
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I believe this just about sums up the problem for Labour.
This morning Corbyn was on the Andrew Marr show and he stated that the renewal of Trident was still under review.
Later a "Labour spokesman" (speaking for Labour MP's) said the decision on renewing Trident had been made and stated " it still backs the UK's Trident nuclear weapons" adding "it remained official policy to keep the deterrent."
Talk about a party still in disarray!
Great for us Conservatives, but as a Blue Socialist I wish there was an opposition of substance, not a joke! ::) ::) ::)
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I believe this just about sums up the problem for Labour.
This morning Corbyn was on the Andrew Marr show and he stated that the renewal of Trident was still under review.
Later a "Labour spokesman" (speaking for Labour MP's) said the decision on renewing Trident had been made and stated " it still backs the UK's Trident nuclear weapons" adding "it remained official policy to keep the deterrent."
Talk about a party still in disarray!
Great for us Conservatives, but as a Blue Socialist I wish there was an opposition of substance, not a joke! ::) ::) ::)
So more important to vote then - if you (anyone really) thinks it will be a landslide then the temptation is to stay at home - which is the wrong answer.
What's really would me up in the last few days is the socialist verbiage from Dawn Butler, her pay Diane Abbot has been very quiet though - thank god. I suspect Jezza is saving her for later in the campaign......
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I believe this just about sums up the problem for Labour.
This morning Corbyn was on the Andrew Marr show and he stated that the renewal of Trident was still under review.
Later a "Labour spokesman" (speaking for Labour MP's) said the decision on renewing Trident had been made and stated " it still backs the UK's Trident nuclear weapons" adding "it remained official policy to keep the deterrent."
Talk about a party still in disarray!
Great for us Conservatives, but as a Blue Socialist I wish there was an opposition of substance, not a joke! ::) ::) ::)
Surely this is a contradiction in terms , Lizzie. :-* :-* :-*
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I believe this just about sums up the problem for Labour.
This morning Corbyn was on the Andrew Marr show and he stated that the renewal of Trident was still under review.
Later a "Labour spokesman" (speaking for Labour MP's) said the decision on renewing Trident had been made and stated " it still backs the UK's Trident nuclear weapons" adding "it remained official policy to keep the deterrent."
Talk about a party still in disarray!
Great for us Conservatives, but as a Blue Socialist I wish there was an opposition of substance, not a joke! ::) ::) ::)
Surely this is a contradiction in terms , Lizzie. :-* :-* :-*
Not for me Opti. I am a Conservative, but one who believes in many Socialist views, thus I call myself a Blue Socialist as I am on the centre right wing. Corbyn is a Red Socialist, with almost hard left, communist views, and I could never support Labour on that basis. Blair was more a Blue Socialist, on the centre left wing, and at times I could almost believe he was a Conservative. Thus I could have supported him, and indeed often agreed with his policies.
Hope that clarifies it for you Opti :-* :-* :D ;)
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I believe this just about sums up the problem for Labour.
This morning Corbyn was on the Andrew Marr show and he stated that the renewal of Trident was still under review.
Later a "Labour spokesman" (speaking for Labour MP's) said the decision on renewing Trident had been made and stated " it still backs the UK's Trident nuclear weapons" adding "it remained official policy to keep the deterrent."
Talk about a party still in disarray!
Great for us Conservatives, but as a Blue Socialist I wish there was an opposition of substance, not a joke! ::) ::) ::)
So more important to vote then - if you (anyone really) thinks it will be a landslide then the temptation is to stay at home - which is the wrong answer.
What's really would me up in the last few days is the socialist verbiage from Dawn Butler, her pay Diane Abbot has been very quiet though - thank god. I suspect Jezza is saving her for later in the campaign......
Oh yes, I will be voting as I have since I could first legally vote. There is no way I could see such a joker as Corbyn be the PM! ::) ::) ;)
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I believe this just about sums up the problem for Labour.
This morning Corbyn was on the Andrew Marr show and he stated that the renewal of Trident was still under review.
Later a "Labour spokesman" (speaking for Labour MP's) said the decision on renewing Trident had been made and stated " it still backs the UK's Trident nuclear weapons" adding "it remained official policy to keep the deterrent."
Talk about a party still in disarray!
Great for us Conservatives, but as a Blue Socialist I wish there was an opposition of substance, not a joke! ::) ::) ::)
Surely this is a contradiction in terms , Lizzie. :-* :-* :-*
Not for me Opti. I am a Conservative, but one who believes in many Socialist views, thus I call myself a Blue Socialist as I am on the centre right wing. Corbyn is a Red Socialist, with almost hard left, communist views, and I could never support Labour on that basis. Blair was more a Blue Socialist, on the centre left wing, and at times I could almost believe he was a Conservative. Thus I could have supported him, and indeed often agreed with his policies.
Hope that clarifies it for you Opti :-* :-* :D ;)
I agree with a lot of that Lizzie. Some of the labour "Manifesto" (if there was one!) I would very much support, and then the nutters crawl out of the woodwork with comments and ambitions that are just bonkers and unsupportable. Rather than take the risk that the lunatics could take over the asylum at a later stage, I will not vote Labour.
I hasten to add that I am not a "tribal" voter, you know always voting Labour or Tory regardless. Stubbornly holding on to the view that one is bad and the other good. In my time I've voted for almost every major party, depending upon policies and leadership at the time. I also hold the view that it is generally a case of voting for the "least bad".
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I believe this just about sums up the problem for Labour.
This morning Corbyn was on the Andrew Marr show and he stated that the renewal of Trident was still under review.
Later a "Labour spokesman" (speaking for Labour MP's) said the decision on renewing Trident had been made and stated " it still backs the UK's Trident nuclear weapons" adding "it remained official policy to keep the deterrent."
Talk about a party still in disarray!
Great for us Conservatives, but as a Blue Socialist I wish there was an opposition of substance, not a joke! ::) ::) ::)
Surely this is a contradiction in terms , Lizzie. :-* :-* :-*
Not for me Opti. I am a Conservative, but one who believes in many Socialist views, thus I call myself a Blue Socialist as I am on the centre right wing. Corbyn is a Red Socialist, with almost hard left, communist views, and I could never support Labour on that basis. Blair was more a Blue Socialist, on the centre left wing, and at times I could almost believe he was a Conservative. Thus I could have supported him, and indeed often agreed with his policies.
Hope that clarifies it for you Opti :-* :-* :D ;)
Blair founded Blue Labour. He was a Tory at heart. I doubt he held any socialist principles.
Dennis Skinner is my favourite. :D.......but like Corbyn I wouldn't want him as PM.
This is my problem, Theresa May is a Tory and a girlie, neither of which endear her to me as PM.
It will probably come down to who is the least worst rather than who is the best choice. :-\
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I believe this just about sums up the problem for Labour.
This morning Corbyn was on the Andrew Marr show and he stated that the renewal of Trident was still under review.
Later a "Labour spokesman" (speaking for Labour MP's) said the decision on renewing Trident had been made and stated " it still backs the UK's Trident nuclear weapons" adding "it remained official policy to keep the deterrent."
Talk about a party still in disarray!
Great for us Conservatives, but as a Blue Socialist I wish there was an opposition of substance, not a joke! ::) ::) ::)
Surely this is a contradiction in terms , Lizzie. :-* :-* :-*
I wonder if LZ is telling us she is contemplating a blue rinse :P
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I believe this just about sums up the problem for Labour.
This morning Corbyn was on the Andrew Marr show and he stated that the renewal of Trident was still under review.
Later a "Labour spokesman" (speaking for Labour MP's) said the decision on renewing Trident had been made and stated " it still backs the UK's Trident nuclear weapons" adding "it remained official policy to keep the deterrent."
Talk about a party still in disarray!
Great for us Conservatives, but as a Blue Socialist I wish there was an opposition of substance, not a joke! ::) ::) ::)
Surely this is a contradiction in terms , Lizzie. :-* :-* :-*
Not for me Opti. I am a Conservative, but one who believes in many Socialist views, thus I call myself a Blue Socialist as I am on the centre right wing. Corbyn is a Red Socialist, with almost hard left, communist views, and I could never support Labour on that basis. Blair was more a Blue Socialist, on the centre left wing, and at times I could almost believe he was a Conservative. Thus I could have supported him, and indeed often agreed with his policies.
Hope that clarifies it for you Opti :-* :-* :D ;)
I agree with a lot of that Lizzie. Some of the labour "Manifesto" (if there was one!) I would very much support, and then the nutters crawl out of the woodwork with comments and ambitions that are just bonkers and unsupportable. Rather than take the risk that the lunatics could take over the asylum at a later stage, I will not vote Labour.
I hasten to add that I am not a "tribal" voter, you know always voting Labour or Tory regardless. Stubbornly holding on to the view that one is bad and the other good. In my time I've voted for almost every major party, depending upon policies and leadership at the time. I also hold the view that it is generally a case of voting for the "least bad".
Dogmatism that has been passed down through the generations.
Question..................Why do you vote Tory/Labour?
Answer....................Don't know but we always have. :-\
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I believe this just about sums up the problem for Labour.
This morning Corbyn was on the Andrew Marr show and he stated that the renewal of Trident was still under review.
Later a "Labour spokesman" (speaking for Labour MP's) said the decision on renewing Trident had been made and stated " it still backs the UK's Trident nuclear weapons" adding "it remained official policy to keep the deterrent."
Talk about a party still in disarray!
Great for us Conservatives, but as a Blue Socialist I wish there was an opposition of substance, not a joke! ::) ::) ::)
Surely this is a contradiction in terms , Lizzie. :-* :-* :-*
I wonder if LZ is telling us she is contemplating a blue rinse :P
Never TB! :o :o
I am too young for that ;D ;D
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I believe this just about sums up the problem for Labour.
This morning Corbyn was on the Andrew Marr show and he stated that the renewal of Trident was still under review.
Later a "Labour spokesman" (speaking for Labour MP's) said the decision on renewing Trident had been made and stated " it still backs the UK's Trident nuclear weapons" adding "it remained official policy to keep the deterrent."
Talk about a party still in disarray!
Great for us Conservatives, but as a Blue Socialist I wish there was an opposition of substance, not a joke! ::) ::) ::)
Surely this is a contradiction in terms , Lizzie. :-* :-* :-*
Not for me Opti. I am a Conservative, but one who believes in many Socialist views, thus I call myself a Blue Socialist as I am on the centre right wing. Corbyn is a Red Socialist, with almost hard left, communist views, and I could never support Labour on that basis. Blair was more a Blue Socialist, on the centre left wing, and at times I could almost believe he was a Conservative. Thus I could have supported him, and indeed often agreed with his policies.
Hope that clarifies it for you Opti :-* :-* :D ;)
I agree with a lot of that Lizzie. Some of the labour "Manifesto" (if there was one!) I would very much support, and then the nutters crawl out of the woodwork with comments and ambitions that are just bonkers and unsupportable. Rather than take the risk that the lunatics could take over the asylum at a later stage, I will not vote Labour.
I hasten to add that I am not a "tribal" voter, you know always voting Labour or Tory regardless. Stubbornly holding on to the view that one is bad and the other good. In my time I've voted for almost every major party, depending upon policies and leadership at the time. I also hold the view that it is generally a case of voting for the "least bad".
Dogmatism that has been passed down through the generations.
Question..................Why do you vote Tory/Labour?
Answer....................Don't know but we always have. :-\
That is an interesting point. My mum was a socialist and until Labour started to become "disoriented" in the 1970's, she would always vote for them. Then the infamous Gang of Four broke away and formed the SDP (remember them?) and she swapped her loyalty to them.
Dad was a weird mix of a right wing Socialist, but then often with communist views (he wanted to get rid of the Royal family) and had a time of buying the Morning Star, but he was serving in the Royal Navy and a mate advised him not to do that as people in dark suits were showing an interest in him! ;D. Then he admired the German armed forces of WW2 , that he served through, and he would regularly raise his right arm shouting "Heil Hitler", often though to wind up my mum! ;D ;D ;D
I though started to vote Labour, until I woke up to what that party in Government in the 1970's were doing to the Country. Then, for me it has been Conservative all the way, with some temptation to vote for Tony Blair.
I certainly believe in keeping ones voting options open and not becoming dogmatic about voting for just one party. :y
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It is interesting that Liebour are now calling for your vote where urgent legislation and action is required to improve air quality. ???
Never taking things at face value I found the statistics from 1987 until 2015 from Defra, who measure and collate UK air quality from measuring stations all over the country. Particulates (PM-10) have fallen from the early to mid 1990's to 2015 by about 30% and ozone reached a peak in about 1999 and have been pretty much on a plateau ever since.
If you have a discussion with any Liebour candidates two good questions to ask them are:
1. Defra air quality statistics show are quality is improving, so why has this suddenly become a problem?
2. The most recent peak in air pollution was in 1999, 2 years after Liebour won an election with a big majority, why did they not introduce legislation then, if they consider air pollution a major problem?
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/517681/Air_Quality_National_Statistic_2015_final.pdf (https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/517681/Air_Quality_National_Statistic_2015_final.pdf)
This is basically an opportunist policy based on fake news. The real background reason is that the UK is not reaching EU targets on air quality. Much of this EU legislation is as a result of the large German green lobby. They don't care how disruptive or expensive their policies are or how much it increases costs and unemployment or how much poorer we will all be. :( One thing they are keen to tell us is how many people lives are shortened due to air pollution. Again, fake news, where they fail to mention that the main cause can be seen through lung cancer statistics. Unfortunately, again looking at the UK lung cancer statistics, this mainly occurs in older people, with 80-90% of cases being through personal air pollution by smoking! :o :o
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I believe this just about sums up the problem for Labour.
This morning Corbyn was on the Andrew Marr show and he stated that the renewal of Trident was still under review.
Later a "Labour spokesman" (speaking for Labour MP's) said the decision on renewing Trident had been made and stated " it still backs the UK's Trident nuclear weapons" adding "it remained official policy to keep the deterrent."
Talk about a party still in disarray!
Great for us Conservatives, but as a Blue Socialist I wish there was an opposition of substance, not a joke! ::) ::) ::)
Surely this is a contradiction in terms , Lizzie. :-* :-* :-*
I wonder if LZ is telling us she is contemplating a blue rinse :P
Now that I could vote for :D
Blue socialist indeed.
Ton E Bliar is a treasonous Lady bits. Neither a socialist nor blue. That he achieved a second term, let alone a third is beyond comprehension >:(
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A Tory socialist is like a Jewish Muslim. I.E. just not possible. A moderate Tory yes, but a Tory socialist no.
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A treasonous Lady bits on the other hand...
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Some of the quotes seem to have got seriously mixed up there
My view so far is that since the Election announcement, social media has been bombarded with some of the most stupid and downright untrue pro-labour ultra left wing crap I've ever seen. Such crass stupidity really does not help them. Any pro Labour inclinations I may have had get killed stone dead.
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A Tory socialist is like a Jewish Muslim. I.E. just not possible. A moderate Tory yes, but a Tory socialist no.
Tory Wets they used to be known as. :)
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Some of the quotes seem to have got seriously mixed up there
My view so far is that since the Election announcement, social media has been bombarded with some of the most stupid and downright untrue pro-labour ultra left wing crap I've ever seen. Such crass stupidity really does not help them. Any pro Labour inclinations I may have had get killed stone dead.
This is good. Broadcast and repeat ;)
That said, social media is a wholly different oxymoron.
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I just wish somebody would come along with a viable party that would pick the best bits from both . . .
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The good bits that were once in the Labour movement have long since disappeared. Tory party is also not up to much imo, but its the only option now. Another couple of terms of Labour in power would destroy this country in my opinion.
They came perilously close to doing just that in the 70,s and still people don't seem to learn.
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Were they not labour nationalists, I would suggest Plaid Cymru...
But seriously, vote by your conscience on May 4th, but vote Conservative in June ;)
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Were they not labour nationalists, I would suggest Plaid Cymru...
But seriously, vote by your conscience on May 4th, but vote Conservative in June ;)
The local Plaid council candidate knocked on our door other day, absolute wierdo, almost creepy. Generally I'm fairly pro-Plaid, but not when they try to turn the local schools to Welsh only. It's just nuts to think that Welsh as a first language is helpful to kids in the big bad World.
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My advice still stands ;)
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I'm reading at the moment, a highly recommended book, by one of the 20th century great economists and political philosophers Frederic Hayek. It was written in his spare time between 1941 and 1944 and is called 'The road to serfdom'. He was born in Austria, but moved to the UK in the 1930's, where he became a prominent economist at The London School of Economics. He considered Communism and National Socialism as one and the same in terms of planned economies and the total loss of freedom. In his view, one of the reasons, they hate each other is where they are both trying to recruit the same type of people, from the same pool, to back their cause.
"It is disquieting to see in England and the United States today the same drawing together of forces and nearly the same contempt of all that is liberal in the old sense. 'Conservative socialism' was the slogan under which a large number of writers prepared the atmosphere in which National Socialism succeeded. It is 'conservative socialism' which is the dominant trend among us now."
With the intellectual links of 'conservative socialism' to National Socialism in the 1930's and 40's, Lizzie, might want to find another less controversial term to describe her politics. :-X :-X :-X
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Were they not labour nationalists, I would suggest Plaid Cymru...
But seriously, vote by your conscience on May 4th, but vote Conservative in June ;)
+1
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Blair to make a come back as an mp? Game chamger or mischief making.
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Blair to make a come back as an mp? Game chamger or mischief making.
Or irrelevance?
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I saw this story boiled down to a single image on Facebook earlier, clearly designed to sway voters toward anyone but Tory: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/dennis-skinner-theresa-may-general-election-2017-tory-expenses-scandal-investigation-2015-labour-mp-a7694826.html
Apparently I have a lot of lefty friends, one of whom isn't even old enough to remember John Major as a PM, who believe Corbyn will be the saviour of us all..
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For me, the choice has to be based on which party do we think is best positioned to spend the next two years plus going into battle with Europe (as that's the main task in the short/medium term future).
Should you choose a belligerent woman or an incompetent twit who cant even get on with his own team......
......for me, at the moment, its simple but, may change over the next few weeks based on policies (those that make sense and can be believed that is!)
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policies (those that make sense and can be believed that is!)
So .. none of them?
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policies (those that make sense and can be believed that is!)
So .. none of them?
For me its more a personal judgement, if party A make the statement that they will spend x billions on the NHS, reverse cuts etc. but, are not able to state how its funded then the bull shit stamp comes out. If it was something half achievable then its very different.....now if they actually do it or not is a different matter.
But I am not the sort of mug who believes what is said because its written on the side of a bus and sounds 'nice' ;D :y
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A Tory socialist is like a Jewish Muslim. I.E. just not possible. A moderate Tory yes, but a Tory socialist no.
Yes, it is possible and I am one of them.
So was Winston Churchill, thought of as a true blue Tory, but he crossed the House twice joining the Liberals back in 1904 (bebore the Labour Party was born) in protest of the high level of militarilism by the Conservatives when social reforms were needed. In 1908 he protested against the Tories building 8 dreadnoughts in that year alone when again he perceived there was a great need for the state to assist the working man, with pensions and other welfare rights, against an outcry of Conservative MP's all protesting that "we want eight and we can't wait!"
That is the Blue Socialist I am, whilst upholding most of the values a a true Conservative. So, to the doubters, yes it is possible to be both now as much as it was for Churchill back them He crossed the House for the second time in 1925 to rejoin the Conservatives, and that is how most people believe he was always a true blue Conservative. If you are a politician without dogma, and have a true commitment to certain political values to really serve our Country, then this is the only way to be. :y
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That he achieved a second term, let alone a third is beyond comprehension >:(
As said, the British voting public is either very, very stupid, or very, very gullible. Probably a combination of the 2, which is worse case scenario.
Maybe I should stand, as the leader of the mass cull of stupid people party.
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I'm reading at the moment, a highly recommended book, by one of the 20th century great economists and political philosophers Frederic Hayek. It was written in his spare time between 1941 and 1944 and is called 'The road to serfdom'. He was born in Austria, but moved to the UK in the 1930's, where he became a prominent economist at The London School of Economics. He considered Communism and National Socialism as one and the same in terms of planned economies and the total loss of freedom. In his view, one of the reasons, they hate each other is where they are both trying to recruit the same type of people, from the same pool, to back their cause.
"It is disquieting to see in England and the United States today the same drawing together of forces and nearly the same contempt of all that is liberal in the old sense. 'Conservative socialism' was the slogan under which a large number of writers prepared the atmosphere in which National Socialism succeeded. It is 'conservative socialism' which is the dominant trend among us now."
With the intellectual links of 'conservative socialism' to National Socialism in the 1930's and 40's, Lizzie, might want to find another less controversial term to describe her politics. :-X :-X :-X
Yes, a great book that I read at University. Mrs Thatcher had a special leather bound copy of it that Hayek gave to her, which was in the background (but not in total control) of Thatchers policies, especially those relating to the free market. John Maynard Keynes was his economist opponent, who's words of "the main cause of slumps was excessive credit creation by the banks leading to overspending." was proved all too true in 2008.
As for National Socialism Rod, I am not at all worried that my politics may align with that philosophy. The Utilitarianism of J.S. Mill and the "the ends justify the means" of Machiavelli and then Nietzsche’s (mad yes, but still valid) belief in the strong looking after the weak (not the evil warped interruption Hitler gave to it) can be a healthy mix in our politics of today. I believe the State should look after the genuine sick and those with special needs. It is the state's capitalist policies that work a man / women to achieve the aims of the nation, to produce the GDP required, so it is only right that the state picks up and helps those so "injured" in the process. National Socialism could be a beneficial policy, but as we have witnessed, in the wrong hands all is twisted, and with their version, if you fall sick and frail you should be eradicated. I fail to see how any good human can accept that, but, for a time, they did!
As with all politics and philosophy it can be mixed up, interrupted, rehashed, and applied in all kinds of ways over the decades, to meet human needs of the time. As I have stated, dogma is a bad thing in politics, and all of us should consider what is needed now in the context of today, not some far off time in the past. I can see little reason personally for not being a Conservative Socialist as that is what is required now. Our society and world needs some radical changes in political application to create a truly fair and just society, whatever party badge you place on it.
The problem is now, thanks to Corbyn, there is no effective opposition. That must be a matter of serious concern in our democratic society.
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That he achieved a second term, let alone a third is beyond comprehension >:(
As said, the British voting public is either very, very stupid, or very, very gullible. Probably a combination of the 2, which is worse case scenario.
Maybe I should stand, as the leader of the mass cull of stupid people party.
Clearly highlighted on a course I attended last week.
When posed with the question of 'what is the speed limit for a standard car on UK motorways' and given the option of 30, 60, 70 and 80 the following results were gained (from 24 off people):
30 - 0%
60 - 25%
70 - 50%
80 - 25%
......yes indeed, they walk amongst us...
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That he achieved a second term, let alone a third is beyond comprehension >:(
As said, the British voting public is either very, very stupid, or very, very gullible. Probably a combination of the 2, which is worse case scenario.
Maybe I should stand, as the leader of the mass cull of stupid people party.
Clearly highlighted on a course I attended last week.
When posed with the question of 'what is the speed limit for a standard car on UK motorways' and given the option of 30, 60, 70 and 80 the following results were gained (from 24 off people):
30 - 0%
60 - 25%
70 - 50%
80 - 25%
......yes indeed, they walk amongst us...
What flavour of course? One for immigrants hoping to be Britishised? That's the kind of shite they put into those. ;D
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That he achieved a second term, let alone a third is beyond comprehension >:(
As said, the British voting public is either very, very stupid, or very, very gullible. Probably a combination of the 2, which is worse case scenario.
Maybe I should stand, as the leader of the mass cull of stupid people party.
I'll vote for you so long as I can be first in line. :) 8)
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That he achieved a second term, let alone a third is beyond comprehension >:(
As said, the British voting public is either very, very stupid, or very, very gullible. Probably a combination of the 2, which is worse case scenario.
Maybe I should stand, as the leader of the mass cull of stupid people party.
Clearly highlighted on a course I attended last week.
When posed with the question of 'what is the speed limit for a standard car on UK motorways' and given the option of 30, 60, 70 and 80 the following results were gained (from 24 off people):
30 - 0%
60 - 25%
70 - 50%
80 - 25%
......yes indeed, they walk amongst us...
50% gave the wrong answer so I assume half the people who attended were women.
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That he achieved a second term, let alone a third is beyond comprehension >:(
As said, the British voting public is either very, very stupid, or very, very gullible. Probably a combination of the 2, which is worse case scenario.
Maybe I should stand, as the leader of the mass cull of stupid people party.
I'll vote for you so long as I can be first in line. :) 8)
To be culled?
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Corbyn seems to have a death wish. He's announced he's going to strengthen the trade unions. I feel sorry for genuine Labour Party members.
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I predict that Theresa May and Marine Le Pen will have a lesbian love affair. ;D
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That he achieved a second term, let alone a third is beyond comprehension >:(
As said, the British voting public is either very, very stupid, or very, very gullible. Probably a combination of the 2, which is worse case scenario.
Maybe I should stand, as the leader of the mass cull of stupid people party.
I'll vote for you so long as I can be first in line. :) 8)
To be culled?
Yes please. :)
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That he achieved a second term, let alone a third is beyond comprehension >:(
As said, the British voting public is either very, very stupid, or very, very gullible. Probably a combination of the 2, which is worse case scenario.
Maybe I should stand, as the leader of the mass cull of stupid people party.
I'll vote for you so long as I can be first in line. :) 8)
To be culled?
Yes please. :)
No need for Jaime to form a political party, just pm me your address and write a note with your choice of exits. :)
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I predict that Theresa May and Marine Le Pen will have a lesbian love affair. ;D
I get the feeling that the PM is partial to a bit of bondage and submission. Note the big thick chain she often wears. :)
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I predict that Theresa May and Marine Le Pen will have a lesbian love affair. ;D
I get the feeling that the PM is partial to a bit of bondage and submission. Note the big thick chain she often wears. :)
Yes, and the stilettos. Imagine those things digging into your groin. Ouch :'(
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Opti, your a sick man. ;D
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That he achieved a second term, let alone a third is beyond comprehension >:(
As said, the British voting public is either very, very stupid, or very, very gullible. Probably a combination of the 2, which is worse case scenario.
Maybe I should stand, as the leader of the mass cull of stupid people party.
Clearly highlighted on a course I attended last week.
When posed with the question of 'what is the speed limit for a standard car on UK motorways' and given the option of 30, 60, 70 and 80 the following results were gained (from 24 off people):
30 - 0%
60 - 25%
70 - 50%
80 - 25%
......yes indeed, they walk amongst us...
What flavour of course? One for immigrants hoping to be Britishised? That's the kind of shite they put into those. ;D
Just one of those 'awareness' type courses...... ;D :y
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Just one of those 'awareness' type courses...... ;D :y
What, speed kills type awareness course. Naughty, naughty boy. You should be an honest, upstanding citizen such as myself.
What is the world coming to :P
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Just one of those 'awareness' type courses...... ;D :y
What, speed kills type awareness course. Naughty, naughty boy. You should be an honest, upstanding citizen such as myself.
What is the world coming to :P
They weren't patronising enough to put that one into the 'special' , by invite only course I went on. Some of the ones we got actually made you think.
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Just one of those 'awareness' type courses...... ;D :y
What, speed kills type awareness course. Naughty, naughty boy. You should be an honest, upstanding citizen such as myself.
What is the world coming to :P
Disgraceful, isn't it? ::)
(Recalls a certain incident involving a 250 RAND fine and an unmodified Hyundai Accent 1.6 Auto) :-[
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I predict that Theresa May and Marine Le Pen will have a lesbian love affair. ;D
If you are going to generate fake news at least go the whole hog, where it is a May, Le Pen threesome which alternates between Scottish Ruth Davidson and wee Jimmy Krankie, with Lord Opti their personal chaperones. ::) ::) ::) ;D ;D ;D
Lord Opti will be on here in a bit asking about laptop repairs after explaining to SWMBO his political coalition fantasy. :o :o :o ;D ;D ;D
STEMO is busy writing a book about it, called 7 Political Shades of Grey with the introduction by John Major. ;D ;D ;D
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I listened to Corbyns speech on the news today, and it was as if I had been transported back to 1974.
He is like one of those japanese soldiers they used to come across in the jungle in the 60,s who thought he was still fighting the second world war, even though the rest of the world knew that war had long since been ended.
He is talking like an old fashioned class warrior to a an old style working class, which no longer exists.
If he and McDonnell were in charge of the UK economy , I have no doubt they would run the same way that big bird with the colourful outfits ran the kids charity she was in charge of. Spend any amount of money on anything your agenda says is morally correct, without ever taking a look to see if there is actually any money left to spend.
I think they are in for the biggest hiding they have ever had.
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I listened to Corbyns speech on the news today, and it was as if I had been transported back to 1974.
He is like one of those japanese soldiers they used to come across in the jungle in the 60,s who thought he was still fighting the second world war, even though the rest of the world knew that war had long since been ended.
He is talking like an old fashioned class warrior to a an old style working class, which no longer exists.
If he and McDonnell were in charge of the UK economy , I have no doubt they would run the same way that big bird with the colourful outfits ran the kids charity she was in charge of. Spend any amount of money on anything your agenda says is morally correct, without ever taking a look to see if there is actually any money left to spend.
I think they are in for the biggest hiding they have ever had.
Then again, Albs, quite a few of the general population will believe him no matter what he says.
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I listened to Corbyns speech on the news today, and it was as if I had been transported back to 1974.
He is like one of those japanese soldiers they used to come across in the jungle in the 60,s who thought he was still fighting the second world war, even though the rest of the world knew that war had long since been ended.
He is talking like an old fashioned class warrior to a an old style working class, which no longer exists.
If he and McDonnell were in charge of the UK economy , I have no doubt they would run the same way that big bird with the colourful outfits ran the kids charity she was in charge of. Spend any amount of money on anything your agenda says is morally correct, without ever taking a look to see if there is actually any money left to spend.
I think they are in for the biggest hiding they have ever had.
He is a chip off the old Michael Foot block. An absolute disaster for Labour ::) ::)
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And long may he reign. ;D
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That,s the trouble with intellectuals like Foot was, they are so far removed from the real world.
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Foot was indeed something of an intellectual. His neighbour and regular dinner companion Enoch Powell, also had a razor sharp intellect.
Apparently they often had great political discussions at one anothers kitchen table.
Cant imagine two people so far apart on the political spectrum doing that in this day and age. We are much more polarised and cloed minded these days.
I don't see Corbyn as an intellectual though. Its as if he has memorised all the standard left wing mantras from his youth and repeats them endlessly without noticing the changes in the world around him over the last 50 years.
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I don't see Corbyn as an intellectual though. Its as if he has memorised all the standard left wing mantras from his youth and repeats them endlessly without noticing the changes in the world around him over the last 50 years.
Corbyn represents the traditional, grassroots, leftish, union-based heart of the Labour party. The professional do or say whatever it takes to keep being re-elected politicians crowding in to the centre(that's both Labour and Conservatives) keep a couple of them around to salve their consciences. They were so ill prepared for the resurgence of a traditional screw you, I'M alright Conservative party and the consequent swing to the left for Labour supporters that they couldn't muster any worthwhile opposition to him.
Is he electable as a government leader? Not a chance.
We're looking at a further two Tory governments before a Labour one is necessary to slow the damage they've done. This is how British politics has 'worked' for the last 100 years.
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Then maybe it is time for a common sense party, something down the middle. I am glad i am not voting.
Like a British version of Macron?
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Then maybe it is time for a common sense party, something down the middle. I am glad i am not voting.
We get a 'new' one about once a generation. Starting one is a good way of perking up your fading political career for a few years before it just peters out. None of these parties lasted long, no matter how many times they changed their name.
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Then maybe it is time for a common sense party, something down the middle. I am glad i am not voting.
Common sense ? In politics ? What a silly idea ::) Lock this man up ;)
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The Tories are currently in the process of positioning themselves smack bang in the middle, as they know that's where elections are always won from.
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The Tories are currently in the process of positioning themselves smack bang in the middle, as they know that's where elections are always won from.
Yep, that makes sense. Blair did that successfully.
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Not that hard to do at the moment either, as the centre ground is completely vacant.
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The Labour Party have today promised to unilaterally guarantee EU citizens living in the UK the right to remain. This is despite a recent poll indicating that only 29% support this and 55% are against. ::)
They are really in touch with public opinion. :)
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The Labour Party have today promised to unilaterally guarantee EU citizens living in the UK the right to remain. This is despite a recent poll indicating that only 29% support this and 55% are against. ::)
They are really in touch with public opinion. :)
And highlights that they may not be the best team to negotiate Brexit as that could have been a useful bargaining chip on the table during talks.....
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Don't they realise that this effectively says that we don't give a toss about what happens to British citizens living in the EU ?
The stupidity of educated people never ceases to amaze me. ::)
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The Labour Party have today promised to unilaterally guarantee EU citizens living in the UK the right to remain. This is despite a recent poll indicating that only 29% support this and 55% are against. ::)
They are really in touch with public opinion. :)
Public opinion, nor the opinion of most Labour MP's does not come into Corbyn's mind. That is why he is unelectable! ;)
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Don't they realise that this effectively says that we don't give a toss about what happens to British citizens living in the EU ?
The stupidity of educated people never ceases to amaze me. ::)
Gulp :'( :'(
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Public opinion, nor the opinion of most Labour MP's does not come into Corbyn's mind. That is why he is unelectable! ;)
If the Brexit referendum has taught anyone anything, it should be that foregone conclusions are never to be believed ;) My pessimism says he has a decent chance of getting elected and bending us all over before this is all over with.
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Public opinion, nor the opinion of most Labour MP's does not come into Corbyn's mind. That is why he is unelectable! ;)
If the Brexit referendum has taught anyone anything, it should be that foregone conclusions are never to be believed ;) My pessimism says he has a decent chance of getting elected and bending us all over before this is all over with.
The polls were fairly accurate in the end, the result was quite close and the polls were not far out.
Couple of points in it polls wise for brexit..... not a 50 vs 25 difference
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The Labour Party have today promised to unilaterally guarantee EU citizens living in the UK the right to remain. This is despite a recent poll indicating that only 29% support this and 55% are against. ::)
They are really in touch with public opinion. :)
Public opinion, nor the opinion of most Labour MP's does not come into Corbyn's mind. That is why he is unelectable! ;)
That's exactly what they said about Pumpy Trumpy. ;D
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The Labour Party have today promised to unilaterally guarantee EU citizens living in the UK the right to remain. This is despite a recent poll indicating that only 29% support this and 55% are against. ::)
They are really in touch with public opinion. :)
Public opinion, nor the opinion of most Labour MP's does not come into Corbyn's mind. That is why he is unelectable! ;)
That's exactly what they said about Pumpy Trumpy. ;D
Trump offered a credible alternative to a regimented establishment... Corbyn exists solely to... Well actually I doubt anyone knows... He certainly doesn't and I'll be boogered if I can think of a useful purpose for him ::)
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And Trump was up against an opponent who was almost universally unpopular, for very good reasons. If either party in the U.S. election had put forward a different to candidate they could have won a landslide majority.
People voted for the lesser evil while holding their noses.
Trust me, Labour are going to get slaughtered. :)
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Trump offered a credible alternative to a regimented establishment...
That's debatable! ;D
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And Trump was up against an opponent who was almost universally unpopular, for very good reasons. If either party in the U.S. election had put forward a different to candidate they could have won a landslide majority.
People voted for the lesser evil while holding their noses.
Trust me, Labour are going to get slaughtered. :)
I know but, as they say on the BBC, "in the interest of balance....." ;D
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Which is ironic as the BBC wouldn't know balance if they found it swimming in their latte coffee.
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Looks as though Corbyn may be given 'a bit of a kicking' on election day.
At the moment it seems the only one putting a tick in the Labour box will be STMO's whippet.
I really don't know who to vote for. :-\
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Looks as though Corbyn may be given 'a bit of a kicking' on election day.
At the moment it seems the only one putting a tick in the Labour box will be STMO's whippet.
I really don't know who to vote for. :-\
Certainly not the women's equality party ;D
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Looks as though Corbyn may be given 'a bit of a kicking' on election day.
At the moment it seems the only one putting a tick in the Labour box will be STMO's whippet.
I really don't know who to vote for. :-\
Said before but worth repeating...
Locally vote by your conscience, Nationally, vote Conservative. Stability as we leave the EU depends on it ;)
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Looks as though Corbyn may be given 'a bit of a kicking' on election day.
At the moment it seems the only one putting a tick in the Labour box will be STMO's whippet.
I really don't know who to vote for. :-\
Said before but worth repeating...
Locally vote by your conscience, Nationally, vote Conservative. Stability as we leave the EU depends on it ;)
Where's the mischief in that? Vote for Jezza and hang on tight. Yeeeeeeeeeehaaaa ;D
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Paraphrasing a famous saying by Henry Ford, I would say:
Everyone can vote for anyone they want to, as long as it is a Conservative! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
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Its hopeless.
Theresa is a girlie and should be attending to her husbands needs.
Corbyn is pretty clueless. Means well but is out of his depth.
Tim Farron seems a 'decent chap' but is too much of a wet blanket.
The Stoke scouser Paul Nuttall is totally irrelevant.
It's a shame 'Screaming Lord Such ' has dropped off the perch. :-\
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Of course, we could end up with the well known scenario . . . . .
Traditional Labour Voter - don't support Corbyn, but just can't vote Tory
Traditional Tory Voter - Don't support Brexit, but can't vote for Corbyn
Lib Dems and anyone/everyone else gains and could end up holding the balance of power in a coalition :(
NOTE: I see that Labour are now trying to bribe NHS workers ::) Where will the cash come from ?
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Tim Farron seems a 'decent chap' but is too much of a wet blanket.
.. If you happen to be gay you might have a different opinion, of course. ;)
But, I agree. Utterly hopeless. How can every opposition party have failed so comprehensively?
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Lib Dems and anyone/everyone else gains and could end up holding the balance of power in a coalition :(
I saw the Lib Dems on TV the other day stating that they absolutely would not form a coalition, no matter what the outcome of the election was..
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I think they said similar in 2010. They also swore blind Uni tuiton fees wouldn't rise. ;D
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Lib Dems and anyone/everyone else gains and could end up holding the balance of power in a coalition :(
I saw the Lib Dems on TV the other day stating that they absolutely would not form a coalition, no matter what the outcome of the election was..
Ha ! They speak with forked tongue. Their only moment of glory in decades was the coalition with the Tories ::)
It's not as though they stand any chance whatsoever of getting a governing majority.
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I'm sticking my dick in the Labour box with STEMO, the tory's are just asset stripping to line their own and the uber classes pockets. To be working class in an inner city provides heart breaking sights at every turn. I also work in the NHS and whats happening is nigh on barbaric.
Labour are likely shit and full of bent characters but I have slightly more hope they can turn things around
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I'm sticking my dick in the Labour box with STEMO, the tory's are just asset stripping to line their own and the uber classes pockets. To be working class in an inner city provides heart breaking sights at every turn. I also work in the NHS and whats happening is nigh on barbaric.
Labour are likely shit and full of bent characters but I have slightly more hope they can turn things around
I don't think labour can win, Jon, but I don't think they'll suffer as badly as some make out.
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I'm sticking my dick in the Labour box with STEMO, the tory's are just asset stripping to line their own and the uber classes pockets. To be working class in an inner city provides heart breaking sights at every turn. I also work in the NHS and whats happening is nigh on barbaric.
Labour are likely shit and full of bent characters but I have slightly more hope they can turn things around
Remember, you will be voting to have a PM who is a lifelong supporter of the IRA. I do not know how any British citizen could bring themselves to do that.
Also, the reason the NHS is short of money despite having a ring fenced budget, is the fact that the Last Labour Govt. saddled the NHS with eye watering debt, with payday loan interest rates, in the form of hospitals built under the PFI scheme.
The cynicism of this was breathtaking, and put to bed once and for all that they are a party that cares about the NHS and the people it treats.
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I'm sticking my dick in the Labour box with STEMO, the tory's are just asset stripping to line their own and the uber classes pockets. To be working class in an inner city provides heart breaking sights at every turn. I also work in the NHS and whats happening is nigh on barbaric.
Labour are likely shit and full of bent characters but I have slightly more hope they can turn things around
Remember, you will be voting to have a PM who is a lifelong supporter of the IRA. I do not know how any British citizen could bring themselves to do that.
Also, the reason the NHS is short of money despite having a ring fenced budget, is the fact that the Last Labour Govt. saddled the NHS with eye watering debt, with payday loan interest rates, in the form of hospitals built under the PFI scheme.
The cynicism of this was breathtaking, and put to bed once and for all that they are a party that cares about the NHS and the people it treats.
Labour may not be the party for you, Albs, but you don't live in inner city Liverpool.
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Im as working class as they come. Done manual work all my life until I could no longer physically do it. Grew up on the biggest council estate in Europe, was a TGWU shop steward etc. etc.
Doesn't matter who you are. If you have a conscience, how could you vote to have a lifelong IRA supporter as PM. It really astounds me that anyone could.
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Im as working class as they come. Done manual work all my life until I could no longer physically do it. Grew up on the biggest council estate in Europe, was a TGWU shop steward etc. etc.
Doesn't matter who you are. If you have a conscience, how could you vote to have a lifelong IRA supporter as PM. It really astounds me that anyone could.
WTF has that got to do with your situation now? Are you on benefits? Are you using a food bank? Are you disabled and living on a pittance? Have you had to put up with a less than 1% pay rise for five years? Are you a pensioner?
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Oh......and there are a lot of Irish Catholics in Liverpool.
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The way voting has been going in recent elections/referendum I don't think anyone can afford to be complacent about the outcome.
By the way what's a pay rise?As a "one man band"I've had to cut costs to stay competitive with larger companies,so my income has in both real and actual terms fallen over the past 5yrs at least.It is a toss up as to whether I'd be better off on benefits,but I keep working out of pride/stupidity and stubbornness!
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The way voting has been going in recent elections/referendum I don't think anyone can afford to be complacent about the outcome.
By the way what's a pay rise?As a "one man band"I've had to cut costs to stay competitive with larger companies,so my income has in both real and actual terms fallen over the past 5yrs at least.It is a toss up as to whether I'd be better off on benefits,but I keep working out of pride/stupidity and stubbornness!
Well quite. There is a mindset with some that it an automatic right. How much rise this year ? Particularly in the public sector. A few years ago I had employees. I would never do that again. I won't start on adecdotes etc.
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During the noughties, Liebour were repeatedly warned, by economists, about their loose money policy and low interest rates policies, which would end in tears. An economic cycle since WWII is on average 42 months (we are well overdue a correction on the current long cycle, and Trump is about to deliver one. >:( >:( >:( :o :o :o). UK Government rules are that you can (Keynesian borrowing at the beginning of an economic cycle as long as it is paid back later in it). McRuin decided he could borrow, borrow, borrow, spend, spend, spend right the way through the economic cycle and to balance the cycle by extending it! :o :o :o This is like King Canute deciding when the tide will come in, for how long and how high. ie A total fool spouting a load of bollards. >:( >:(
We have paid the price since 2008 where the majority of wages have not recovered unless have a degree or are even higher educated. :( Society is increasingly being polarized into the well educated like Tunnie (well done, where he has developed his 'in-demand' skills) and those on a minimum wage. Those in manufacturing that were on minimum wage plus a bit were eliminated by a combination of Liebour increased taxes and tree hugger costs and mass migration, where the minimum wage is unheard of riches and you actually get paid, unlike in Eastern Europe! :( :(
If anybody thinks the way forward is a McRuin on steroids, beholden to unelected Marxist union leaders, well good luck with that one. >:( >:(
How well a country does is decided by the quality of the politicians and the decisions they make. South Korea, Singapore, Switzerland v North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela.
A vote in a democracy is a powerful decision in not only deciding who wins in our first past the post system, but also by how much which adds much legitimacy to their 'vision' for the country. Trump lost the popular vote, but won the electoral collage, which puts a question mark over his legitimacy by the trouble makers. ::) ::)
Education is the key and our low achievement Stalinist system and is a major cause of UK under-achievement. Grammar schools and improved social mobility are a step forward, but an even bigger one would be adopting a German style vocational system for those more suited to going into industry. We don't need a nation of brain surgeons, but a range of top skill who can compete internationally, earning the salaries they can globally command. A county's biggest asset is their human capital and we need to do much better in developing it and getting people 'to express themselves' by producing world class 'premium' products and services. :y :y :y
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So it's election and time once again the NHS becomes a political pawn. In my time I've voted for pretty much every political party at some stage. I also spent 9 years working in the NHS and then much of my working life supplying goods and services to the NHS. Some comments . . .
The amount of money wasted in the NHS verges on criminal. Vanity projects like "corporate branding" and spin. Exhorbitant rates for agency staff. Armies of overpaid managers who are excellent at Powerpoint presentations and corporate lingo, but not much else. I've even seen examples of equipment being bought that simply wasn't needed or ever used. Why ? Because it ticked a box and/or it looked good in PR.
PFI was not totally down to the Labour party, it was first used under the Tories. However it was Labour who permitted NHS trusts to sign up to the punitive PFI deals that will continue to cripple the NHS for years to come. I recall a certain Mr Brown smugly announcing that "funding had been approved" for yet another shiny new hospital, implying that the Government were paying. Nope, he had approved another PFI deal. As an aside, PFI hospitals are built to a budget, they are built only to last for the duration of the PFI contract, typically 30 - 35 years.
So NHS workers to get a pay rise funded by increased Corporation Tax. Hmmmm so when international companies are considering their European options regarding Brexit, there is the possibility of of a tax hike ? And, Europe has already warned Brexit bound UK about offering lower tax rates to attract inward investment. Ireland has not exactly done badly by having an attractive corporate tax system. And of course, international companies employ people. Non international companies just get screwed, they don't have the option of relocating, so they just cut back on investment.
The NHS pay rise claim by Labour is at best impractical, and at worst a downright lie. Hang on, let's give a pay rise to all education staff as well, and council workers, and civil servants. Anybody else in the public sector want one?
I don't disagree with everything that Labour/Corbyn is saying, but I disagree with far too much to attract my vote.
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Surprisingly, this was tweeted yesterday by an avid Labour supporter . . . . .
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j74/Old_Mosher/LeastDisappointing_01_zpsahwv49om.jpg)
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So...Theresa wants to lose the triple lock and today refuses to rule out income tax and NI rises. Watch those polls narrow.
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I see Blair is now sticking his oar in to show us the error of our ways and help us out of the mess we've got ourselves in since he left No.10 :-X
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So...Theresa wants to lose the triple lock and today refuses to rule out income tax and NI rises. Watch those polls narrow.
Hmmm possible tax rises under the Tories or definite tax rises under Labour. ::)
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I see Blair is now sticking his oar in to show us the error of our ways and help us out of the mess we've got ourselves in since he left No.10 :-X
Next time someone sticks a microphone in my face, I will be sure to say what I think on the subject...
Lady bits should have swung a decade ago.
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I want to see the manifestos of all parties before making my choice (yes I realise just how much they are worth). As always, labour are promising more money for everything and everyone, plus a free unicorn for every household, it's how it'll be funded that'll interest me.
Labour's only word on the subject so far is to aim it at those earning about £70k or above. The Torres, no news as yet...
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At some point, the defects left by the last Liebour shambles need to be paid for...
Rest assured that we, and by that I mean normal honest folk, will pay for it large. Of this there is no escape.
Historically this has been done by dropping the higher rate threshold by 5K and reducing the tax percentage by 4% whilst simultaneously increasing the minimum rate percentage.
In the middle you might receive a slight improvement on allowances, but rest assured that you will be paying for that window* of benefit for decades.
* worst case a parliamentary term.
The issue here isn't who can deliver everything for nothing, but rather who has the strength of conviction to lead us out of the EU and into the brave new world.
And to that end, my fellow Americans Britons, you have but one vote. Conservative*.
*this could have been UKIP, but they only played one deck... Missed a trick not selling themselves as the party to take us not only from Brussels, but also beyond it... A strong LibDem/UKIP coalition might just have done this but that boat has long sailed.
Use the local elections next week to resolve issues at home, and save the General Election for strong post Brexit leadership.
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As for the original question...
Teresa May has at least got the 'dangle berries' to put herself before the electorate now rather than resigning on the dawn of leaving the EU.
Jeremy on the other hand couldn't find his 'dangle berries' in a bag of peanuts. Presuming he has any to begin with...
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As for the original question...
Teresa May has at least got the 'dangle berries' to put herself before the electorate now rather than resigning on the dawn of leaving the EU.
I'm not sure I believe that DG, I think it's being done now because she can currently be judged on her EU rhetoric. Strong and stable leadership and all that cobblers. 3yrs down the line she'll be being judged on the sh!t show that the EU negotiations will inevitably become.
To call it now is a shrewd/cynical (delete as appropriate) political manoeuvre.
That said, I'll still be voting for her ::)
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Its being done now because there are enough Tory MP,s files currently with the CPS for electoral fraud, to lose her, her small majority overnight. ;)
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I want to see the manifestos of all parties before making my choice (yes I realise just how much they are worth). As always, labour are promising more money for everything and everyone, plus a free unicorn for every household, it's how it'll be funded that'll interest me.
Labour's only word on the subject so far is to aim it at those earning about £70k or above. The Torres, no news as yet...
Unicorn are common......just like rocking horse droppings. :)
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Another car crash interview . . . . . a possible future Home Secretary !
DIANE ABBOTT DOES MATHS (http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/nick-ferrari/diane-abbotts-agonising-interview-over-policy-cost/?utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral)
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Another car crash interview . . . . . a possible future Home Secretary !
DIANE ABBOTT DOES MATHS (http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/nick-ferrari/diane-abbotts-agonising-interview-over-policy-cost/?utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral)
She obviously had the lies figures written down for her, so wtf didn't she say 'Hang on while I get the figures'?
How do stupid, even thick bastards like this get to be shadow Home Secretary? Please don't answer that, I fear you may put that image into my head again, and it took me nearly a week to get over it last time.
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Another car crash interview . . . . . a possible future Home Secretary !
DIANE ABBOTT DOES MATHS (http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/nick-ferrari/diane-abbotts-agonising-interview-over-policy-cost/?utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral)
She obviously had the lies figures written down for her, so wtf didn't she say 'Hang on while I get the figures'?
How do stupid, even thick bastards like this get to be shadow Home Secretary? Please don't answer that, I fear you may put that image into my head again, and it took me nearly a week to get over it last time.
You still going to vote Labour? ;D
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Another car crash interview . . . . . a possible future Home Secretary !
DIANE ABBOTT DOES MATHS (http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/nick-ferrari/diane-abbotts-agonising-interview-over-policy-cost/?utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral)
She obviously had the lies figures written down for her, so wtf didn't she say 'Hang on while I get the figures'?
How do stupid, even thick bastards like this get to be shadow Home Secretary? Please don't answer that, I fear you may put that image into my head again, and it took me nearly a week to get over it last time.
C'mon. Secretly you know that you would ::)
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Another car crash interview . . . . . a possible future Home Secretary !
DIANE ABBOTT DOES MATHS (http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/nick-ferrari/diane-abbotts-agonising-interview-over-policy-cost/?utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral)
She obviously had the lies figures written down for her, so wtf didn't she say 'Hang on while I get the figures'?
How do stupid, even thick bastards like this get to be shadow Home Secretary? Please don't answer that, I fear you may put that image into my head again, and it took me nearly a week to get over it last time.
You still going to vote Labour? ;D
Could you kindly point me to the post where I said I was voting Labour :-\
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Another car crash interview . . . . . a possible future Home Secretary !
DIANE ABBOTT DOES MATHS (http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/nick-ferrari/diane-abbotts-agonising-interview-over-policy-cost/?utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral)
She obviously had the lies figures written down for her, so wtf didn't she say 'Hang on while I get the figures'?
How do stupid, even thick bastards like this get to be shadow Home Secretary? Please don't answer that, I fear you may put that image into my head again, and it took me nearly a week to get over it last time.
You still going to vote Labour? ;D
Could you kindly point me to the post where I said I was voting Labour :-\
I thought you were still on the fence, but living inner-city Liverpool was leaning you to the Red vote?
If incorrect, apologies :y
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Another car crash interview . . . . . a possible future Home Secretary !
DIANE ABBOTT DOES MATHS (http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/nick-ferrari/diane-abbotts-agonising-interview-over-policy-cost/?utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral)
She obviously had the lies figures written down for her, so wtf didn't she say 'Hang on while I get the figures'?
How do stupid, even thick bastards like this get to be shadow Home Secretary? Please don't answer that, I fear you may put that image into my head again, and it took me nearly a week to get over it last time.
You still going to vote Labour? ;D
Could you kindly point me to the post where I said I was voting Labour :-\
I thought you were still on the fence, but living inner-city Liverpool was leaning you to the Red vote?
If incorrect, apologies :y
I live in Barnsley, Tunnie.
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Another car crash interview . . . . . a possible future Home Secretary !
DIANE ABBOTT DOES MATHS (http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/nick-ferrari/diane-abbotts-agonising-interview-over-policy-cost/?utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral)
She obviously had the lies figures written down for her, so wtf didn't she say 'Hang on while I get the figures'?
How do stupid, even thick bastards like this get to be shadow Home Secretary? Please don't answer that, I fear you may put that image into my head again, and it took me nearly a week to get over it last time.
Christ on a bike! Has she never heard of the "When in a hole, stop digging" mantra? ;D
Funding the policy was clearly a key point that the interviewer was going to pursue. It always is. Not having the figures committed to memory was careless. Making some nonsense up rather than pausing to find the page with them written on was, hopefully, career ending.
I bet there are dozens of Labour back benchers who could do a much better job as shadow home secretary, if only there was a leader they'd serve under. ;D
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Another car crash interview . . . . . a possible future Home Secretary !
DIANE ABBOTT DOES MATHS (http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/nick-ferrari/diane-abbotts-agonising-interview-over-policy-cost/?utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral)
She obviously had the lies figures written down for her, so wtf didn't she say 'Hang on while I get the figures'?
How do stupid, even thick bastards like this get to be shadow Home Secretary? Please don't answer that, I fear you may put that image into my head again, and it took me nearly a week to get over it last time.
You still going to vote Labour? ;D
Could you kindly point me to the post where I said I was voting Labour :-\
I thought you were still on the fence, but living inner-city Liverpool was leaning you to the Red vote?
If incorrect, apologies :y
I live in Barnsley, Tunnie.
Sorry I miss-read this?
I'm sticking my dick in the Labour box with STEMO, the tory's are just asset stripping to line their own and the uber classes pockets. To be working class in an inner city provides heart breaking sights at every turn. I also work in the NHS and whats happening is nigh on barbaric.
Labour are likely shit and full of bent characters but I have slightly more hope they can turn things around
Remember, you will be voting to have a PM who is a lifelong supporter of the IRA. I do not know how any British citizen could bring themselves to do that.
Also, the reason the NHS is short of money despite having a ring fenced budget, is the fact that the Last Labour Govt. saddled the NHS with eye watering debt, with payday loan interest rates, in the form of hospitals built under the PFI scheme.
The cynicism of this was breathtaking, and put to bed once and for all that they are a party that cares about the NHS and the people it treats.
Labour may not be the party for you, Albs, but you don't live in inner city Liverpool.
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You didn't misread it, you merely misunderstood it...
Just because Albs doesn't live in Liverpool doesn't mean that STEMO does...
However if you read back, Omegod made the original observation re inner city policy and traditional Labour home ground ;)
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You didn't misread it, you merely misunderstood it...
Just because Albs doesn't live in Liverpool doesn't mean that STEMO does...
However if you read back, Omegod made the original observation re inner city policy and traditional Labour home ground ;)
Yes. I was referring to Alb's reply to Jon. An easy mistake, I'll let you off......this time. :P
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My bad :-[
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Another car crash interview . . . . . a possible future Home Secretary !
DIANE ABBOTT DOES MATHS (http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/nick-ferrari/diane-abbotts-agonising-interview-over-policy-cost/?utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral)
She obviously had the lies figures written down for her, so wtf didn't she say 'Hang on while I get the figures'?
How do stupid, even thick bastards like this get to be shadow Home Secretary? Please don't answer that, I fear you may put that image into my head again, and it took me nearly a week to get over it last time.
Christ on a bike! Has she never heard of the "When in a hole, stop digging" mantra? ;D
Funding the policy was clearly a key point that the interviewer was going to pursue. It always is. Not having the figures committed to memory was careless. Making some nonsense up rather than pausing to find the page with them written on was, hopefully, career ending.
I bet there are dozens of Labour back benchers who could do a much better job as shadow home secretary, if only there was a leader they'd serve under. ;D
Maybe the reason she is shadow home secty is because she did literally "serve - under" the current Labour leader
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Another car crash interview . . . . . a possible future Home Secretary !
DIANE ABBOTT DOES MATHS (http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/nick-ferrari/diane-abbotts-agonising-interview-over-policy-cost/?utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral)
She obviously had the lies figures written down for her, so wtf didn't she say 'Hang on while I get the figures'?
How do stupid, even thick bastards like this get to be shadow Home Secretary? Please don't answer that, I fear you may put that image into my head again, and it took me nearly a week to get over it last time.
Christ on a bike! Has she never heard of the "When in a hole, stop digging" mantra? ;D
Funding the policy was clearly a key point that the interviewer was going to pursue. It always is. Not having the figures committed to memory was careless. Making some nonsense up rather than pausing to find the page with them written on was, hopefully, career ending.
I bet there are dozens of Labour back benchers who could do a much better job as shadow home secretary, if only there was a leader they'd serve under. ;D
Maybe the reason she is shadow home secty is because she did literally "serve - under" the current Labour leader
After you with the mind bleach, STEMO. :y
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Another car crash interview . . . . . a possible future Home Secretary !
DIANE ABBOTT DOES MATHS (http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/nick-ferrari/diane-abbotts-agonising-interview-over-policy-cost/?utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral)
My lad's just pissed himself at that.
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Another car crash interview . . . . . a possible future Home Secretary !
DIANE ABBOTT DOES MATHS (http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/nick-ferrari/diane-abbotts-agonising-interview-over-policy-cost/?utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral)
She obviously had the lies figures written down for her, so wtf didn't she say 'Hang on while I get the figures'?
How do stupid, even thick bastards like this get to be shadow Home Secretary? Please don't answer that, I fear you may put that image into my head again, and it took me nearly a week to get over it last time.
I cannot stand this women. She speaks down to people, and somehow is right up Corbyn's backside. She pretends to be so clever, but this today just shows how weak she is. She is only in the position she is in because no other Labour MP want to be there, or even in Corbyn cabinet! ::) ::) ::)
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Another car crash interview . . . . . a possible future Home Secretary !
DIANE ABBOTT DOES MATHS (http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/nick-ferrari/diane-abbotts-agonising-interview-over-policy-cost/?utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral)
She obviously had the lies figures written down for her, so wtf didn't she say 'Hang on while I get the figures'?
How do stupid, even thick bastards like this get to be shadow Home Secretary? Please don't answer that, I fear you may put that image into my head again, and it took me nearly a week to get over it last time.
I cannot stand this women. She speaks down to people, and somehow is right up Corbyn's backside. She pretends to be so clever, but this today just shows how weak she is. She is only in the position she is in because no other Labour MP want to be there, or even in Corbyn cabinet! ::) ::) ::)
No. It was the other way round.
Nooooooo........there's that vision again. :(
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Another car crash interview . . . . . a possible future Home Secretary !
DIANE ABBOTT DOES MATHS (http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/nick-ferrari/diane-abbotts-agonising-interview-over-policy-cost/?utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral)
She obviously had the lies figures written down for her, so wtf didn't she say 'Hang on while I get the figures'?
How do stupid, even thick bastards like this get to be shadow Home Secretary? Please don't answer that, I fear you may put that image into my head again, and it took me nearly a week to get over it last time.
I cannot stand this women. She speaks down to people, and somehow is right up Corbyn's backside. She pretends to be so clever, but this today just shows how weak she is. She is only in the position she is in because no other Labour MP want to be there, or even in Corbyn cabinet! ::) ::) ::)
No. It was the other way round.
Nooooooo........there's that vision again. :(
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D You could be right STEMO!! 8) 8) ;)
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Just pray that she doesn't become chancellor :-X
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Just pray that she doesn't become chancellor :-X
If by some remote chance Labour win the election, she absolutely WILL be in a top ministerial job, she's already shadow Home Sectretary.
She and Corbyn were bonking partners some time ago, My dislike of the current Labour setup is not just Corbyn himself, it's that he has trust in such idiots. The Tories get accused of cronyism, with quite a bit of truth, but Labour are just as bad in their own way.
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I thought this was a much better speech by Diane Abbott. ::) ::) ::) ::)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSKQ3ZNQ_O8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSKQ3ZNQ_O8)
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Another car crash interview . . . . . a possible future Home Secretary !
DIANE ABBOTT DOES MATHS (http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/nick-ferrari/diane-abbotts-agonising-interview-over-policy-cost/?utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral)
The interview gets played back to her . . . . . almost as bad
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39775693
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Win Win for the tories last night, I reckon. If Labour had gained seats, people would have said that it was merely a protest vote before the general election where the conservatives would come good. As it is, it looks like it's going to be a separate kick in each knacker for labour. ;D
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Win Win for the tories last night, I reckon. If Labour had gained seats, people would have said that it was merely a protest vote before the general election where the conservatives would come good. As it is, it looks like it's going to be a separate kick in each knacker for labour. ;D
It would be interesting to know how Corbyn actually sees things, what is actually inside his head. Maybe he is simply not prepared to compromise at all in order to win. It probably wouldn't take that much to win back the traditional tribal Labour voter, sack Abbott and a few others, stop making stupid hysterical claims, come up with a few half sensible sounding policies, but no. It's almost as though he wants to lose. Strange.
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We were all having a laugh at work yesterday at that stupid woman Diane Abbott , one of my colleagues daughter works for an MP in London the opinion of most of them about Diane and I quote is..
" One ignorant lazy bitch " really couldn't put it better myself.
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Win Win for the tories last night, I reckon. If Labour had gained seats, people would have said that it was merely a protest vote before the general election where the conservatives would come good. As it is, it looks like it's going to be a separate kick in each knacker for labour. ;D
It would be interesting to know how Corbyn actually sees things, what is actually inside his head. Maybe he is simply not prepared to compromise at all in order to win. It probably wouldn't take that much to win back the traditional tribal Labour voter, sack Abbott and a few others, stop making stupid hysterical claims, come up with a few half sensible sounding policies, but no. It's almost as though he wants to los. Your vote, your choice, be. Strange.
Always judge people by their actions, never their words, as words are cheap and have no commitment. Terrorist Corbyn by his actions and support of ISIS has in IMO made that perfectly clear his no 1. hero is the head of ISIS Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. Vote Liebour, get Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, a vote is a very powerful thing, your vote your choice on the 8th June. vote Corbyn get Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, good luck with that one. :o :o :o :o
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Do you take lots of drugs in the wee small hours, Rods?
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Do you take lots of drugs in the wee small hours, Rods?
;D
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Do you take lots of drugs in the wee small hours, Rods?
No. ???
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Both manifestos released then. Finally we know that the election wasn't about brexit at all, more a tax raising exercise and a chance for a cabinet shuffle.
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Yup. Theresa isn't the new Thatcher, she is the new Heath. She has taken the Tory party as far to the left as its ever been, in order to try and kill off whats left of the Labour party. It might just work too.
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Yup. Theresa isn't the new Thatcher, she is the new Heath. She has taken the Tory party as far to the left as its ever been, in order to try and kill off whats left of the Labour party. It might just work too.
I do hope so :D :y :y
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Me too. ;) Benign dictatorship is under rated. :D...........as long as its my kind of dictatorship. ;D
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Hmmm.....I wouldn't be too complacent, have you listened to the news? ;D
Nearly one in five people in this country are pensioners, you know ::)
These proposals could be seen as bold.....or stupid, we will see.
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Theresa has calculated that she has enough of a lead that she can afford to risk losing some of the grey vote. I would be surprised if she is wrong.
If Corbyn does win the election I will take my Omega and my 12 guineas in savings and leave the country. :D
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One thing is now clear: Sooner or later, your house will belong to the government. Even if that is after your/your spouse's death.
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I'm warming (mildly) to 'Flaccid Fallon'.......anyone who is willing to legalise wacky baccy can't be all bad. A couple of billion each year in tax to help the NHS along with the 350 million each week from Brexit. ::) ::) ::) :)
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I think Mother Theresa is a lot like Thatcher inasmuch as she thinks she's the queen. She is patronising, condescending and superior. Just for the sake of mischief, I'd like to see Jeremy give her a kick up the front. ;D
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I think Mother Theresa is a lot like Thatcher inasmuch as she thinks she's the queen. She is patronising, condescending and superior. Just for the sake of mischief, I'd like to see Jeremy give her a kick up the front. ;D
An inherent Tory trait. ::)
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I'm warming (mildly) to 'Flaccid Fallon'.......anyone who is willing to legalise wacky baccy can't be all bad. A couple of billion each year in tax to help the NHS along with the 350 million each week from Brexit. ::) ::) ::) :)
We all know that if we want a 1st class health service then we have to pay for it and that either means direct charges (£20 to see the Dr) or increased taxation. The trouble is, is that nobody wants to pay. The poor think the rich should pay and the rich have BUPA. ::)
The NHS in it's current form is ultimately unsustainable, and yes we could put a penny on income tax as the Limp Dems propose to raise the extra cash, but what do we do in 5 years time when the NHS has bust it's budgets yet again? Keep on raising taxes? :-\
I was in my local surgery last week and they have a big board showing how many people didn't turn up for appointments, and in my little town there were 15! >:( Fine them £100 and that's £1500 going in the pot, roll that out nationally and your probably looking at substantial amounts. :y
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They might be old people who missed because they died ;D
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I wouldn't mind betting that £20 to see the quack would make all the hypochondriacs think twice, along with those who can't be arsed to turn up for their appointments. I'd be all for it. :y
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I wouldn't mind betting that £20 to see the quack would make all the hypochondriacs think twice, along with those who can't be arsed to turn up for their appointments. I'd be all for it. :y
:y
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I wouldn't mind betting that £20 to see the quack would make all the hypochondriacs think twice, along with those who can't be arsed to turn up for their appointments. I'd be all for it. :y
Yes, maybe, but I would prefer a bidding system. If you ring up and say you want an appointment at half nine, and somebody has already paid £20 for it, you should be able to offer 30...and get a ring back if the other patient ups the ante. ;D
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I wouldn't mind betting that £20 to see the quack would make all the hypochondriacs think twice, along with those who can't be arsed to turn up for their appointments. I'd be all for it. :y
You can do it already, online via video: https://www.pushdoctor.co.uk/
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It's a case of old people clogging up the system.
A TB type cull of everybody over 65 would solve the problem. Billions saved on running the NHS and further billions saved because the pension bill (which is by far the biggest drain on the public purse) would become zero.
STMO.......are you 65 yet? :)
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Think 'Logans Run' but at 65 instead of thirty. :)
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It's a case of old people clogging up the system.
A TB type cull of everybody over 65 would solve the problem. Billions saved on running the NHS and further billions saved because the pension bill (which is by far the biggest drain on the public purse) would become zero.
STMO.......are you 65 yet? :)
Getting close, I was 64 on Tuesday :(
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The Illiberal undemocrats want to legalise wacky baccy and are demanding mental health problems are given higher priority and funding at the same time. Are these retards really so dim that they are unaware of the connection between the explosion in the use of wacky baccy, and mental health hospitals being completely unable to cope with demand ? ::)
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It's a case of old people clogging up the system.
A TB type cull of everybody over 65 would solve the problem. Billions saved on running the NHS and further billions saved because the pension bill (which is by far the biggest drain on the public purse) would become zero.
STMO.......are you 65 yet? :)
Getting close, I was 64 on Tuesday :(
You wouldn't begrudge me my state pension, knowing how hard I've worked all my life, surely Opti?
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I wouldn't mind betting that £20 to see the quack would make all the hypochondriacs think twice, along with those who can't be arsed to turn up for their appointments. I'd be all for it. :y
id go for that as well, as long as I was exempt.....I get called in the surgery loads of time....for diabetic check ups....and get prescriptions changed all the time...just changed again on Tuesday....but I get them free....being diabetic....and I always turn up for appointments :)
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Yes, I'd go for it too. As long as I was exempt. :y
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Yes, I'd go for it too. As long as I was exempt. :y
So...when was the last time your surgery wrote to you asking you to come in..... :-\
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They might be old people who missed because they died ;D
That's very likely round here! :D
No excuse though! They should cancel their Dr's appointment before shuffling off and if they can't be arsed then the surgery should make a claim against the estate. ;)
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Yes, I'd go for it too. As long as I was exempt. :y
So...when was the last time your surgery wrote to you asking you to come in..... :-\
Last week. Phone call actually.
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It doesn't matter anyway. Doctors surgeries are clogged up with the unemployed and elderly and they'd get it for free. Along with expectant mothers and mothers with babies, anyone under 18 and people with existing medical conditions.
Doesn't leave many to pay, does it?
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It doesn't matter anyway. Doctors surgeries are clogged up with the unemployed and elderly and immigrants and they'd get it for free. Along with expectant mothers and mothers with babies, anyone under 18 and people with existing medical conditions.
Doesn't leave many to pay, does it?
Fixed
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It doesn't matter anyway. Doctors surgeries are clogged up with the unemployed and elderly and immigrants and they'd get it for free. Along with expectant mothers and mothers with babies, anyone under 18 and people with existing medical conditions.
Doesn't leave many to pay, does it?
Fixed
Immigrants come under the unemployed and expectant mothers.
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It's a case of old people clogging up the system.
A TB type cull of everybody over 65 would solve the problem. Billions saved on running the NHS and further billions saved because the pension bill (which is by far the biggest drain on the public purse) would become zero.
STMO.......are you 65 yet? :)
Getting close, I was 64 on Tuesday :(
You wouldn't begrudge me my state pension, knowing how hard I've worked all my life, surely Opti?
[/highlight]
I have a heart really I do.
I would make sure you were dispatched quickly and humanely, to make way for the young and productive. :)
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It's a case of old people clogging up the system.
A TB type cull of everybody over 65 would solve the problem. Billions saved on running the NHS and further billions saved because the pension bill (which is by far the biggest drain on the public purse) would become zero.
STMO.......are you 65 yet? :)
Getting close, I was 64 on Tuesday :(
You wouldn't begrudge me my state pension, knowing how hard I've worked all my life, surely Opti?
[/highlight]
I have a heart really I do.
I would make sure you were dispatched quickly and humanely, to make way for the young and productive. :)
Thank you :-*
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The Illiberal undemocrats want to legalise wacky baccy and are demanding mental health problems are given higher priority and funding at the same time. Are these retards really so dim that they are unaware of the connection between the explosion in the use of wacky baccy, and mental health hospitals being completely unable to cope with demand ? ::)
They are probably hoping that, by their second week in office, we'd all be so caned that we wouldn't remember the rest of their manifesto. :-X
id go for that as well, as long as I was exempt.....I get called in the surgery loads of time....for diabetic check ups....and get prescriptions changed all the time...just changed again on Tuesday....but I get them free....being diabetic....and I always turn up for appointments :)
Fair enough, once (s)he's treating an ongoing condition. :y
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I wouldn't mind betting that £20 to see the quack would make all the hypochondriacs think twice, along with those who can't be arsed to turn up for their appointments. I'd be all for it. :y
Excellent idea, when somebody is too ill to work, struggling to pay their bills, hit them where it hurts with treatment fees, so they can't afford the treatment they need, don't get better, don't go back to work and don't become a productive member of society again. If you want to see where this works so well, check out the US system where millions have no access to their health system and 1 in 3 working age males are unemployed and no longer looking for work. Over 60% of this is due to their unresolved health issues. :(
The NHS is a poor system compared to France and other continental countries, but the European system works much better than in the US and Singapore with their pay-as-you-go system, where it is free at the point of access when you need it. This is the concept of insurance, where we all pay in and have access to it when we need it and is also one of the several reasons average European quality of life is much better than the US. No cover for pre-existing medical conditions is a major issue in the US where you can't get cover for existing conditions if you change job and insurer and likewise whatever the premium you can't switch to a cheaper insurer and keep the current cover for your pre-existing conditions. :o
People that abuse the NHS system with missed appointments, fine them with payment made before they can make another appointment. Likewise, have other fixed fees like where hospitals are used as a Friday / Saturday night drunk recovery facilities.
The problem society has is our pay-as-you-earn pension and health systems mean that where this is the most expensive time-of-life in terms of Government costs you are no longer working (the second most expensive is childhood), and as more and more old people are surviving and with a smaller and smaller workforce to support them. :-\
The answer to resolving this is actually technology where many new treatments are becoming available which will extend our lives and healthy life period significantly, but we are all going to have to work until we are much older. In the next 20 years, I expect the retirement age rise rapidly to be 80+ :y
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Think 'Logans Run' but at 65 instead of thirty. :)
Ah, a young Jennifer Agutter.. dribble.
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I think if you did a straw poll of people on this forum not many would say they could or would like to work till 80. I dont see that happening .
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I will work until I'm no longer able to. I don't blame anyone but myself. I hated school, didn't turn up much of the time, left without a single qualification. I don't expect future taxpayers to keep me in a life of comfort now, because I was stupid(er) when I was young.
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Think 'Logans Run' but at 65 instead of thirty. :)
Ah, a young Jennifer Agutter.. dribble.
[/quote]
........and breathe, Aaron. ;)
She wouldn't even give you a semi these days. ;)
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;D Probably right.. this was three years ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenny_Agutter#/media/File:Jenny_Agutter_(2).jpg
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;D Probably right.. this was three years ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenny_Agutter#/media/File:Jenny_Agutter_(2).jpg
You would and you know it :D
She does bear a passing resemblance to Helen Mirren. And you would definitely go there ;)
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;D Probably right.. this was three years ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenny_Agutter#/media/File:Jenny_Agutter_(2).jpg
You would and you know it :D
She does bear a passing resemblance to Helen Mirren. And you would definitely go there ;)
I plead the fifth.
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;D Probably right.. this was three years ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenny_Agutter#/media/File:Jenny_Agutter_(2).jpg
You would and you know it :D
She does bear a passing resemblance to Helen Mirren. And you would definitely go there ;)
Speak for yourself! ::) :P
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;D Probably right.. this was three years ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenny_Agutter#/media/File:Jenny_Agutter_(2).jpg
You would and you know it :D
She does bear a passing resemblance to Helen Mirren. And you would definitely go there ;)
Helen Mirren is a wrinkled old crone.
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:)
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;D Probably right.. this was three years ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenny_Agutter#/media/File:Jenny_Agutter_(2).jpg
You would and you know it :D
She does bear a passing resemblance to Helen Mirren. And you would definitely go there ;)
Helen Mirren is a wrinkled old crone.
I'll go along with that. Way past her sell by date.
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;D Probably right.. this was three years ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenny_Agutter#/media/File:Jenny_Agutter_(2).jpg
You would and you know it :D
She does bear a passing resemblance to Helen Mirren. And you would definitely go there ;)
Helen Mirren is a wrinkled old crone.
I'll go along with that. Way past her sell by date.
Possibly, but you still would.
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;D Probably right.. this was three years ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenny_Agutter#/media/File:Jenny_Agutter_(2).jpg
You would and you know it :D
She does bear a passing resemblance to Helen Mirren. And you would definitely go there ;)
Helen Mirren is a wrinkled old crone.
I'll go along with that. Way past her sell by date.
Possibly, but you still would.
I can think of a pair couple of reasons why he might. ::)
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;D Probably right.. this was three years ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenny_Agutter#/media/File:Jenny_Agutter_(2).jpg
You would and you know it :D
She does bear a passing resemblance to Helen Mirren. And you would definitely go there ;)
Helen Mirren is a wrinkled old crone.
I'll go along with that. Way past her sell by date.
Possibly, but you still would.
I can think of a pair couple of reasons why he might. ::)
They're not so attractive when she undoes all the support and they bang against her kneecaps. ;D
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The first BIG U TURN. Mother Theresa has had to think again about the cost of social care, but...just as with the winter fuel payment, she won't say exactly what the figures are. Anyone who thinks they can just moot a policy, that affects millions of people, and then say they'll work out the figures after the election is living on another planet.
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Or she's arrogant enough to believe that it doesn't really matter what she says or does.
TBH she may have a point.
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Or she's arrogant enough to believe that it doesn't really matter what she says or does.
TBH she may have a point.
You may be right, but I'm not sure why she's bothering to back-pedal at all in that case. :-\
It's all a complete shambles at the moment. I don't think anyone's worthy of my 1/2 mile walk to the polling station so far. ::)
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Or she's arrogant enough to believe that it doesn't really matter what she says or does.
TBH she may have a point.
You may be right, but I'm not sure why she's bothering to back-pedal at all in that case. :-\
It's all a complete shambles at the moment. I don't think anyone's worthy of my 1/2 mile walk to the polling station so far. ::)
She's back-pedalling because the grey vote, on which she is relying, would shun her...and still might if she doesn't come up with some figures.
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Great sales technique, promise to take money and benefits away from your biggest and most loyal customer base and then wonder why your lead drops 5% in the polls when that customer base looks to spend their vote elsewhere. Who'd have guessed it? Even CaMoron understood and pandered to the grey vote with the triple-lock :o :o :o
Pity so few MPs and ministers have had any real world experience, especially business experience, as this is a schoolgirl error. Still, at least it shows that common sense is still rarer than rocking horse sh!t in Westminister. :o :o :o
As Corporal Jones would say, don't panic Mother Teresa, don't panic. ;D ;D ;D
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I think it's the right policy, but they could have unveiled it at the next budget rather than just before the election! ::)
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I think it's the right policy, but they could have unveiled it at the next budget rather than just before the election! ::)
Nope. You've got to put it in your manifesto.
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Oh, and whether it's the right policy or not depends on your personal circumstances.
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Surely it depends on what you believe to be right or wrong. ???
I have never voted for a candidate or party who I believed would make me personally better off. If I did I would vote Labour and claim benefits - until they fly the economy into a cliff face again.
I vote for the party which I think will do the best job overall for the country.
As for the social care policy, I see it like this. In days gone by, families used to take care of their elderly family members. That is largely not the case nowadays.
If family cant or wont take care of them, should they really expect the taxpayers to foot the bill for it, and then those same family members sell the home and assets of the elderly person, when they pop their clogs, and stick the money in their back pocket ?
Doesn't seem right to me. :-\
I suppose it could have been left out of the manifesto and then put into the budget, but then it would be very easy for the Lords to defeat the government, so it would be a waste of time.
Speaking of which, I'm very surprised the Tories haven't put reform of the Lords in their manifesto.
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That's very noble of you, Albs. If only ordinary people thought that way ::)
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CoMoron knowing that extra London runways would be a contentious issue at 2015 election, set up a committee to investigate this 'difficult' problem to report early in the next parliament. The Tories should have seen this banana skin and done the same to report in the 2nd year of the new parliament. It would then allow a 3-year cooling-off period before the 2022 election.
I agree that those relatives who won't look after their parents should expect the state to use their assets to do so.
Ex-SIL's husband has had dementia for the last 15 years which has got progressively worse and with her daughter and husband have looked after him at home, with more home help as it has progressed, about 2 months ago things got so bad they have now had to concede defeat and he has had to go into a nursing home. :'(
Dementia affects people in very different ways which can make looking after them at home 24/7 very, very difficult. :(
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Surely it depends on what you believe to be right or wrong. ???
I have never voted for a candidate or party who I believed would make me personally better off. If I did I would vote Labour and claim benefits - until they fly the economy into a cliff face again.
I vote for the party which I think will do the best job overall for the country.
As for the social care policy, I see it like this. In days gone by, families used to take care of their elderly family members. That is largely not the case nowadays.
If family cant or wont take care of them, should they really expect the taxpayers to foot the bill for it, and then those same family members sell the home and assets of the elderly person, when they pop their clogs, and stick the money in their back pocket ?
Doesn't seem right to me. :-\
I suppose it could have been left out of the manifesto and then put into the budget, but then it would be very easy for the Lords to defeat the government, so it would be a waste of time.
Speaking of which, I'm very surprised the Tories haven't put reform of the Lords in their manifesto.
Agree with all that :y
As I often state, today's society expect something for nothing and every to be the best for them but cost them the very minimum, if anything at all. The Welfare state encouraged that line of thought, and although we have all benefited from those socialist policies we have got to the time of reckoning. There is only so much money in the kitty and if we want the best for all we all will have to pay for it.
Labour sold off the family gold last time round, and Corbyn wants to go even further. However Mrs May being sensible and listening to people's concerns on a particularly sensitive issue should be applauded not derided. That shows she is not a dogmatic politician and is prepared to listen and act. Corbyn however is just going on a journey of promising everything that people would like no matter how much it is going to cost. But that is and always has been the Labour Party.
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Here's Mother Theresa getting a bit tetchy at those pesky journalists ;D
May faces press over social care 'U-turn'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40006242
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However Mrs May being sensible and listening to people's concerns on a particularly sensitive issue should be applauded not derided.
That feels a bit disingenuous TBH, imagine if Corbyn had turned up with a totally uncosted manifesto, then performed a dithering U-turn on a key policy. Would he be described as "listening to concerns". I don't bloody think so ::)
For me, if you want to limit inheritance, then raise an inheritance tax. Whether someone needs long term care is totally luck of the draw. I see no justification for taking (say) a family inheritance down from £500k to 100k while leaving a £900k inheritance untouched solely on the luck of the draw as to whether you become ill or not.
That is the yardstick the yanks use for healthcare. Luck of the draw, unless you're very wealthy. Id prefer not to live in a society like that.
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BTW, don't get me wrong here. I'm not advocating Labour by any means. But I do love it when a smarmy, over-confident ......erm......person.....gets brought down a peg or two.
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For me, if you want to limit inheritance, then raise an inheritance tax. Whether someone needs long term care is totally luck of the draw. I see no justification for taking (say) a family inheritance down from £500k to 100k while leaving a £900k inheritance untouched solely on the luck of the draw as to whether you become ill or not.
That is the yardstick the yanks use for healthcare. Luck of the draw, unless you're very wealthy. Id prefer not to live in a society like that.
It's not about limiting inheritances, it's about ensuring that the people who can afford to pay for their care in old age if this become necessary don't become a burden on the state. If you can afford to pay, why should the taxpayer pick up the bill? ???
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why should the taxpayer pick up the bill? ???
So why not make the state pension and the NHS means tested? The same logic applies.
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why should the taxpayer pick up the bill? ???
So why not make the state pension and the NHS means tested? The same logic applies.
No it dosn't. The state pension isn't a state benefit and neither is the NHS. ::)
The socialists are always banging on about the wealthy paying their fair share, yet seem to think that it's shameful that the wealthy should have to pay for their own care in old age. ::) If you have the money or assets to pay for your care why should the taxpayer? ???
Because if we do nothing and let the taxpayer pick up the tab for everybody, then taxes will have to go up to stupid levels to pay for it all, or either that the government of the day will borrow even more money and your children and grandchildren will pay for that in increased taxation anyway.... :P
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No it dosn't. The state pension isn't a state benefit and neither is the NHS. ::)
So, just to be clear then, if I and my identical twin brother arrive at age 70 and retire. With £500k in the bank each, then I get a brain tumour and he gets dementia.
My treatment (chemo, numerous surgeries, nursing care etc) costs the state £100k. His care, in a home costs also £100k. Then we both die. In your world view, the £100k spent on my care is fine. But my twin brother needs to pay £100k for his care.
Thank goodness it's not an arbitrary distinction based wholly on chance.
Also, why isn't the state pension a benefit? I suspect mostly because it gets the olds' backs up.
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why should the taxpayer pick up the bill? ???
So why not make the state pension and the NHS means tested? The same logic applies.
No it dosn't. The state pension isn't a state benefit and neither is the NHS. ::)
The socialists are always banging on about the wealthy paying their fair share, yet seem to think that it's shameful that the wealthy should have to pay for their own care in old age. ::) If you have the money or assets to pay for your care why should the taxpayer? ???
Because if we do nothing and let the taxpayer pick up the tab for everybody, then taxes will have to go up to stupid levels to pay for it all, or either that the government of the day will borrow even more money and your children and grandchildren will pay for that in increased taxation anyway.... :P
On the subject of social care in old age, I understand what you're saying, Tigger. But...young people have a hell of a time getting their feet on the housing ladder these days and I think that somebody's home should be sacrosanct. This figure of £100,000 means that almost everyone's home would have to be sold after their death, there are not that many houses worth less than that.
I would be willing to pay every penny that I had towards my care, but kicking my children out and selling the house after my death....no. No.
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No it dosn't. The state pension isn't a state benefit and neither is the NHS. ::)
So, just to be clear then, if I and my identical twin brother arrive at age 70 and retire. With £500k in the bank each, then I get a brain tumour and he gets dementia.
My treatment (chemo, numerous surgeries, nursing care etc) costs the state £100k. His care, in a home costs also £100k. Then we both die. In your world view, the £100k spent on my care is fine. But my twin brother needs to pay £100k for his care.
Thank goodness it's not an arbitrary distinction based wholly on chance.
Also, why isn't the state pension a benefit? I suspect mostly because it gets the olds' backs up.
We have to be careful here, Jimmy. If you deprive people of any sort of financial support in old age because they have worked and saved, then they will stop working and saving. Apart from some outdated form of 'social responsibility', what would be the point?
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I actually know a chap in his fifties who is two years off finishing his mortgage. He intends to live in the house till he's sixty then sell it and rent. This is the kind of behaviour you will encourage if you go too far.
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I agree STEMO, but with our population aging as it is, the distinction between the NHS and social care is both arbitrary and outdated.
Take again the example of 2 twin brothers, this time they both get dementia. But, because one of them needs a daily administration of drugs intravenously but the other does not. Under NHS guidelines one is streamed to a Nursing home (NHS budget) and the other a Care home (social care budget).
One brother pays a (potentially) unlimited sum for his care, the other pays nothing.
I am not a socialist by any stretch, but to arbitrarily give or take away benefits agrivates me.
For example, if I wanted to launch a state benefit that would pay unemployed millionaires in their 20's a bit of extra cash to heat their mansions when the weather goes cold, people would rightly call me mad. But if that millionaire turns 70 odd, suddenly it's a necessity which must be protected and we call it the "winter fuel allowance". ::)
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Aka having your cake and eating it... ::)
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I agree STEMO, but with our population aging as it is, the distinction between the NHS and social care is both arbitrary and outdated.
Take again the example of 2 twin brothers, this time they both get dementia. But, because one of them needs a daily administration of drugs intravenously but the other does not. Under NHS guidelines one is streamed to a Nursing home (NHS budget) and the other a Care home (social care budget).
One brother pays a (potentially) unlimited sum for his care, the other pays nothing.
I am not a socialist by any stretch, but to arbitrarily give or take away benefits agrivates me.
For example, if I wanted to launch a state benefit that would pay unemployed millionaires in their 20's a bit of extra cash to heat their mansions when the weather goes cold, people would rightly call me mad. But if that millionaire turns 70 odd, suddenly it's a necessity which must be protected and we call it the "winter fuel allowance". ::)
Once again I agree, but it smacks of double standards. We lost our child benefit because the wife earns more than £60,000, fair enough you might say. But a couple where both were earning £45,000 did not lose theirs. Why? Because, it was said, it would cost more to find out who was earning what than would be saved.
So...we are going to means test every pensioner to save £100-300 a year, but couldn't means test people on child benefit, who were getting at least £960 a year for one child (much more for two or three) because it would cost too much? It smacks of a tax grab at any cost to me.
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And don't forget, as always, these policies are being mooted by people who will never be affected by them. The selfishness of politicians knows no bounds, as was proved last year when they got a c.10% pay rise while public sector workers got 1%.
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I agree with you STEMO.
This election isnt about costed manifesto pledges but about leaders. All a bit wrong as you will be stuck with the Tories for five years as they widen the gap betwen haves and have nots.
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So...we are going to means test every pensioner to save £100-300 a year, but couldn't means test people on child benefit, who were getting at least £960 a year for one child (much more for two or three) because it would cost too much? It smacks of a tax grab at any cost to me.
I agree entirely. My view is that we should not means test any benefits. Either you qualify, based on age, disability, number of children, whatever, or you don't. I don't understand the obsession of breaking money up into little pots, some of which you qualify for or don't on an arbitrary basis (like the child benefit example you gave). Then you make every benefit taxable and adjust your tax bands to suit.
So then, yes your millionaire gets his pension and his winter fuel allowance, but you just take it back in tax. No means testing or arbitrary criteria, no jobs for the boys form filling. Up until this election I have always voted Tory, but this current lot just have too many policies I can't stomach. It's started with finding a tax break for higher earners (which my wife and I benefitted from) In the the same breath as cutting disability benefits. It hasn't got any better.
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So...we are going to means test every pensioner to save £100-300 a year, but couldn't means test people on child benefit, who were getting at least £960 a year for one child (much more for two or three) because it would cost too much? It smacks of a tax grab at any cost to me.
I agree entirely. My view is that we should not means test any benefits. Either you qualify, based on age, disability, number of children, whatever, or you don't. I don't understand the obsession of breaking money up into little pots, some of which you qualify for or don't on an arbitrary basis (like the child benefit example you gave). Then you make every benefit taxable and adjust your tax bands to suit.
So then, yes your millionaire gets his pension and his winter fuel allowance, but you just take it back in tax. No means testing or arbitrary criteria, no jobs for the boys form filling. Up until this election I have always voted Tory, but this current lot just have too many policies I can't stomach. It's started with finding a tax break for higher earners (which my wife and I benefitted from) In the the same breath as cutting disability benefits. It hasn't got any better.
I say keep it simple. Access to benefits should be based on 'need' alone.
If you need financial help age should not come into it. Throwing money at often extremely wealthy pensioners in the form of WFA, free prescriptions, free eye tests, free TV licence could be put to better use helping young families working for poverty wages.
Ah, sorry, such people don't tend to vote so the government can ignore them. :(
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I agree Jimmy that one person's care is funded and another isn't can seem unfair, but there is a difference between needing medical care and treatment due to cancer or any other terminal illness and someone needing help because they can't cope anymore due to old age. As you say though the line is arbitrary.
At the end of the day there will be winners and losers whatever system is adopted. If we have universal free care for the elderly then taxes and borrowing will have to go up and your children and grandchildren will pay. ::) I don't have kids, so by yours and STEMO's reasoning I should piss my money away and let your kids pay! :P ;)
As to means testing, it should be simple! If the Department of Work and Pensions and HMRC got their act together, then they should know who needs help and who doesn't and then they could abolish all universal benefits, and direct taxpayers money to those that really need it. ;)
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No it dosn't. The state pension isn't a state benefit and neither is the NHS. ::)
So, just to be clear then, if I and my identical twin brother arrive at age 70 and retire. With £500k in the bank each, then I get a brain tumour and he gets dementia.
My treatment (chemo, numerous surgeries, nursing care etc) costs the state £100k. His care, in a home costs also £100k. Then we both die. In your world view, the £100k spent on my care is fine. But my twin brother needs to pay £100k for his care.
Thank goodness it's not an arbitrary distinction based wholly on chance.
Also, why isn't the state pension a benefit? I suspect mostly because it gets the olds' backs up.
Okay, say unfortunately, you and your brother both get cancer. The new wonder drug treatment and cure for your brother has been approved by NICE for the NHS to give to him FOC, your different wonder drug treatment and cure is not considered value for money by NICE, not approved and is not available on the NHS. The only hope you've got is raising the £1m treatment cost and going to the US for treatment. This is the luck of the draw and the lottery of life.
Read any decent book on economics and invariably the first sentence is along the lines that "Resouces are scarce and always limited". They are and lines have to be drawn on affordability. The problem with socialism is that everybody wants to benefit at no cost in time and money to themselves, which means it is at the cost of somebody else's time and money! In the end the people that can don't due to penal tax rates. Successful people get there through a combination of taking risks, hard work, vision to create well marketed desirable products and services, but as they only get 24 hours a day like everybody else, it is normally at the expense of working long hours. Take away the reward and they will be down the pub instead like everybody else who only wants to work 9 till 5 or less.
When I was hatched born, I didn't get a certificate telling me life was going to be fair and I don't know anybody else that did, but maybe you're the exception? ::) ::) ::)
When I had a flu jab on the 4th October 2015 there was a 1 in 1,000,000 to 2,000,000 chance of it containing a mutated life changing virus. Unfortunately, that was me and the end result is that I'm partially sighted. Now I could mope around all day, be all bitter and complain about how unfair life is or accept that sh!t happens and get on with life. I personally accept what has happened and get on with life.
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So...we are going to means test every pensioner to save £100-300 a year, but couldn't means test people on child benefit, who were getting at least £960 a year for one child (much more for two or three) because it would cost too much? It smacks of a tax grab at any cost to me.
I agree entirely. My view is that we should not means test any benefits. Either you qualify, based on age, disability, number of children, whatever, or you don't. I don't understand the obsession of breaking money up into little pots, some of which you qualify for or don't on an arbitrary basis (like the child benefit example you gave). Then you make every benefit taxable and adjust your tax bands to suit.
So then, yes your millionaire gets his pension and his winter fuel allowance, but you just take it back in tax. No means testing or arbitrary criteria, no jobs for the boys form filling. Up until this election I have always voted Tory, but this current lot just have too many policies I can't stomach. It's started with finding a tax break for higher earners (which my wife and I benefitted from) In the the same breath as cutting disability benefits. It hasn't got any better.
I say keep it simple. Access to benefits should be based on 'need' alone.
If you need financial help age should not come into it. Throwing money at often extremely wealthy pensioners in the form of WFA, free prescriptions, free eye tests, free TV licence could be put to better use helping young families working for poverty wages.
Ah, sorry, such people don't tend to vote so the government can ignore them. :(
I agree with that. The welfare state has mutated away from helping people in genuine need, to buying peoples votes with other peoples money.
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That's very noble of you, Albs. If only ordinary people thought that way ::)
Tbh, until relatively recently, I was naïve enough to believe that most people thought like that. ::)
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Rods, you are trying to make this about socialism or implying that I have some self centred idea of "fairness". Neither of which is either accurate or close to the point at hand. Play the argument. Not the man.
Yes there will always be things that we as a nation can and cannot fund. In fact your example about cancer drugs is an exceptionally poor one. NICE makes decisions about which drugs to fund and which not based on their efficacy as balanced against their cost - so an objective choice.
To determine that we will fund treatment for a condition that requires Nursing care and not one that requires social care is anything but objective. It's no more sensible than saying the NHS will fund treatment for diseases whose names begin with the letters A-L. But if it's letters M-Z, you're on your own.
For me, if you want those that can afford it to shoulder more of the burden, introduce an inheritance tax that applies equally to all, don't arbitrarily target one group based on a factor they cannot control.
There is a crucial distinction between saying "life isn't fair" (which is of course true) and "let's deliberately choose to make it more unfair than it needs to be" (which is an ideological choice).
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I agree STEMO, but with our population aging as it is, the distinction between the NHS and social care is both arbitrary and outdated.
Take again the example of 2 twin brothers, this time they both get dementia. But, because one of them needs a daily administration of drugs intravenously but the other does not. Under NHS guidelines one is streamed to a Nursing home (NHS budget) and the other a Care home (social care budget).
One brother pays a (potentially) unlimited sum for his care, the other pays nothing.
I am not a socialist by any stretch, but to arbitrarily give or take away benefits agrivates me.
For example, if I wanted to launch a state benefit that would pay unemployed millionaires in their 20's a bit of extra cash to heat their mansions when the weather goes cold, people would rightly call me mad. But if that millionaire turns 70 odd, suddenly it's a necessity which must be protected and we call it the "winter fuel allowance". ::)
Once again I agree, but it smacks of double standards. We lost our child benefit because the wife earns more than £60,000, fair enough you might say. But a couple where both were earning £45,000 did not lose theirs. Why? Because, it was said, it would cost more to find out who was earning what than would be saved.
So...we are going to means test every pensioner to save £100-300 a year, but couldn't means test people on child benefit, who were getting at least £960 a year for one child (much more for two or three) because it would cost too much? It smacks of a tax grab at any cost to me.
The more you earn, the higher the rate of tax you pay and the more they take away to make your effective tax rate even higher. For those above 1.5 times average earnings the pips squeaked under Gordon McRuin and under Osborne and Hammond, it has continued where he left off. :( If you run a business then once you are above 1.5 times average wages the combination of employer NI, income tax and spending it on a 20% VAT rated item means over 50% is taken in tax. If you pay it as a dividend, figures are slightly better but still over 50%. :(.
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The Times has the results of a poll which shows that Labour are now only five points behind the conservatives:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-lead-cut-to-five-points-as-corbyn-closes-in-on-may-rgmckfnpp
So..how is Jeremy going to capitalise on this? He's going to say our foreign policy is to blame for the Manchester terrorist attack. Sheesh...he really doesn't fancy the Prime Ministers job, does he? ;D
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Sheesh...he really doesn't fancy the Prime Ministers job, does he? ;D
People said that about Trump, too, with all his blabberings pre election.. look how that turned out! Still, he looks very pleased with himself here: https://twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/867794060525928448
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Sheesh...he really doesn't fancy the Prime Ministers job, does he? ;D
People said that about Trump, too, with all his blabberings pre election.. look how that turned out! Still, he looks very pleased with himself here: https://twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/867794060525928448
Scroll down to the one where he's a midget. FAF ;D
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Sheesh...he really doesn't fancy the Prime Ministers job, does he? ;D
People said that about Trump, too, with all his blabberings pre election.. look how that turned out! Still, he looks very pleased with himself here: https://twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/867794060525928448
Scroll down to the one where he's a midget. FAF ;D
This (for Rods2, especially) might be my favourite - it's so well done (if you've seen the film it came from - Total Recall - that is):
(https://media.giphy.com/media/E0MM3wqMMCQN2/giphy.gif)
(https://giphy.com/gifs/E0MM3wqMMCQN2/)
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Have put the following suggestion to Mr Whine...
Good morning Jeremy. Don't forget to ask Mr Corbyn about his lifelong support of the IRA. Assuming, of course, that it fits neatly with the BBCs unbiased left wing policies.
No mention yet... ::)
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Have put the following suggestion to Mr Whine...
Good morning Jeremy. Don't forget to ask Mr Corbyn about his lifelong support of the IRA. Assuming, of course, that it fits neatly with the BBCs unbiased left wing policies.
No mention yet... ::)
Neither Corbyns views on the IRA nor Mays view on fox hunting should really be a vote decider. There are much bigger fish to fry than that.
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Have put the following suggestion to Mr Whine...
Good morning Jeremy. Don't forget to ask Mr Corbyn about his lifelong support of the IRA. Assuming, of course, that it fits neatly with the BBCs unbiased left wing policies.
No mention yet... ::)
Neither Corbyns views on the IRA nor Mays view on fox hunting should really be a vote decider. There are much bigger fish to fry than that.
True, but it won't help his terrorism policy perspective...
And as for scrapping Trident to pay for policing that we cannot afford due to labour spending policies, he has that arse backwards... The Tridents aren't for targeting nutters, but rather deterring nutjob regimes ::)
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Have put the following suggestion to Mr Whine...
Good morning Jeremy. Don't forget to ask Mr Corbyn about his lifelong support of the IRA. Assuming, of course, that it fits neatly with the BBCs unbiased left wing policies.
No mention yet... ::)
Neither Corbyns views on the IRA nor Mays view on fox hunting should really be a vote decider. There are much bigger fish to fry than that.
True, but it won't help his terrorism policy perspective...
And as for scrapping Trident to pay for policing that we cannot afford due to labour spending policies, he has that arse backwards... The Tridents aren't for targeting nutters, but rather deterring nutjob regimes ::)
Scrapping trident? Don't think so or, at least, I haven't heard so.
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It's on his list...
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It's on his list...
Yes and if Jezza does get in expect some epic battles between the Cabinet and the PLP! ::)
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My lad came out with a rather good quip today. He said "The only way Labour will win is if Diane Abbot counts the votes ". ;D
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My lad came out with a rather good quip today. He said "The only way Labour will win is if Diane Abbot counts the votes ". ;D
Three for me, one for you...
I notice that she presented a typically poor account of herself on tellybox this morning ;D
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Just remember, Jeremy Corbyn once made a conscious choice to shag Diane Abbott!
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Just remember, Jeremy Corbyn once made a conscious choice to shag Diane Abbott!
The story goes that he did it to prove his leftie credentials to his mates. They were out leafleting when he 'suddenly remembered' that he'd left a load (fnar fnar) at home. So they all traipsed back to his flat where the delectable Miss Abbot was lying on a mattress on the floor. Covered by a duvet, hopefully.
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His wife must be sooo proud...
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His wife must be sooo proud...
He'd split from his first wife at the time. She was in the house and he had a flat in.........Islington.......of course.
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I would expect nothing less from such an esteemed specimen ::)
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I saw a good conspiracy theory earlier on arsebook, and it goes something like this. :)
The Tories snatch defeat from the jaws of victory and Labour win the election. Subsequently Jeremy Corbyn and his BREXIT team are so weak in the negotiations with the EU, that they pretty much cave in to all and any demands that the EU make.
The proposed deal is so bad that there is a clamour from opposition parties ( including the Tories) and the general public for a second referendum, which the Labour government agree to. The result of the referendum is resoundingly to stay in the EU.
The whole thing is orchestrated by global big business and other shadowy organisations such as the Bilderberg Group who want Britain to stay in the EU. ::)
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I saw a good conspiracy theory earlier on arsebook, and it goes something like this. :)
The Tories snatch defeat from the jaws of victory and Labour win the election. Subsequently Jeremy Corbyn and his BREXIT team are so weak in the negotiations with the EU, that they pretty much cave in to all and any demands that the EU make.
The proposed deal is so bad that there is a clamour from opposition parties ( including the Tories) and the general public for a second referendum, which the Labour government agree to. The result of the referendum is resoundingly to stay in the EU.
The whole thing is orchestrated by global big business and other shadowy organisations such as the Bilderberg Group who want Britain to stay in the EU. ::)
I suppose this means rejoin, as Article 15 has already been triggered. :-\
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I saw a good conspiracy theory earlier on arsebook, and it goes something like this. :)
The Tories snatch defeat from the jaws of victory and Labour win the election. Subsequently Jeremy Corbyn and his BREXIT team are so weak in the negotiations with the EU, that they pretty much cave in to all and any demands that the EU make.
The proposed deal is so bad that there is a clamour from opposition parties ( including the Tories) and the general public for a second referendum, which the Labour government agree to. The result of the referendum is resoundingly to stay in the EU.
The whole thing is orchestrated by global big business and other shadowy organisations such as the Bilderberg Group who want Britain to stay in the EU. ::)
I suppose this means rejoin, as Article 50 has already been triggered. :-\
There's nothing in the treaties that says that Article 50 can't be withdrawn once delivered and up until March 2019 the UK is still a member of the EU. ;)
A lot of unexpected things could happen in the next 22 months! :o ::)
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I think that whatever happens we the people will be told what we are having as we seem to be treated like children with over protective parents in this country
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Watched the leaders debate thing on SKY tonight. I thought Corbyn was slippery and sinister. Its more about what he doesn't say than what he does say.nMay was unimpressive and dreary.
She will still win though.
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Corbyn's speech in Watford this afternoon may just have killed his chances. No one, I think, wants to return to the days of positive discrimination, and my guess is that's where we'd end up.
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I could see my desk in the Sky debate, the shots for advert breaks show building I work in 8)
But yes, could not stand Corbyn with his stance on MI5 and defence, was a disgrace.
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Watched the leaders debate thing on SKY tonight. I thought Corbyn was slippery and sinister. Its more about what he doesn't say than what he does say.nMay was unimpressive and dreary.
She will still win though.
How about a tenner on that nice Mr Nuttall to take the top job. ::)
He's scouser like STMO so as honest as the day is long. :)
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Corbyn's speech in Watford this afternoon may just have killed his chances. No one, I think, wants to return to the days of positive discrimination, and my guess is that's where we'd end up.
Yet the news this morning is all about a poll predicting a hung parliament, Tory losses etc..
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Hung parliament?
Two years of muddling along. No Brexit deal. Now that is something to look forward to...... :o
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Hung parliament?
Two years of muddling along. No Brexit deal. Now that is something to look forward to...... :o
Mr Sainsbury (not his real name, the man at the top of Sainsbury's PLC) was also on the news saying "Two years is not enough time to negotiate any kind of Brexit deal, so there will most likely be no deal" etc etc. More doom & gloom to drive voters toward Corbyn or the SNP with their indyref2
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Wouldnt surprise me if it took ten years. The EU has never shown itself to be nimble plus the negotiators are not targetted with "you must achieve a deal by .... date" unlike private business.
The Unwrapping of Greenland took a long time and they only really had fishing to consider.
No , i can see it being a right drawn out mess unless we hand over the 100 billion ransom soon.
Interesting article in the Independent today explaining how the already over burdened NHS will struggle under the cost of returning for healthcare retired expats in the event of no reciprocal deal.
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NHS will struggle under the cost of returning for healthcare retired expats in the event of no reciprocal deal.
I say we lock them all oooh hi Varche ;) ;D
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Interesting article in the Independent today explaining how the already over burdened NHS will struggle under the cost of returning for healthcare retired expats in the event of no reciprocal deal.
There's a similar article on the BBC, but it dosn't take account of the fact that if there is no reciprocal health deal, then the NHS is under no obligation to provide free treatment to the 3 million odd (that we know about) EU citizens living in the UK. ;)
But of course any suggestion that the NHS wouldn't provide free treatment to people from other countries would get the leftie luvvies frothing at the mouth. ::)
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It is apples and pears you are comparing.
Firstly most of the EU nationals are working in the UK and thus entitled to healthcare for themselves and dependents. Most of the expats abroad and certainly where Spain is concerned are retired. The UK currently pays an annual per capita fee for them to have free healthcare. Without that most couldnt afford private healthcare which in any case would exclude existing health conditions plus they would have to pay for medicine which currently costs just ten per cent.
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It is apples and pears you are comparing.
Firstly most of the EU nationals are working in the UK and thus entitled to healthcare for themselves and dependents. Most of the expats abroad and certainly where Spain is concerned are retired. The UK currently pays an annual per capita fee for them to have free healthcare. Without that most couldnt afford private healthcare which in any case would exclude existing health conditions plus they would have to pay for medicine which currently costs just ten per cent.
That's a fair comment, but I'm always a bit skeptical of the oft repeated mantra that immigrants pay more into the system than they take out. Many of them do minimum wage type jobs, so claim tax credits, housing benefit, child benefit etc so their contribution in many cases is probably neutral if not negative. Also I wonder how many of the thousands of the car wash guys submit a tax return? ::)
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It is apples and pears you are comparing.
Firstly most of the EU nationals are working in the UK and thus entitled to healthcare for themselves and dependents. Most of the expats abroad and certainly where Spain is concerned are retired. The UK currently pays an annual per capita fee for them to have free healthcare. Without that most couldnt afford private healthcare which in any case would exclude existing health conditions plus they would have to pay for medicine which currently costs just ten per cent.
That's a fair comment, but I'm always a bit skeptical of the oft repeated mantra that immigrants pay more into the system than they take out. Many of them do minimum wage type jobs, so claim tax credits, housing benefit, child benefit etc so their contribution in many cases is probably neutral if not negative. Also I wonder how many of the thousands of the car wash guys submit a tax return? ::)
Hard to know which mantra to believe. :(
One I certainly don't believe, and one that is regularly trotted out by right wing Tories, is that the top 1% of earners pay the top 30% (or similar) of tax.
In my experience the very wealthy pay very little tax. Hot shot lawyers and expensive accountants see to that.
Most of the tax burden falls on middle earners. The 'working poor' pay little tax and rightly so.
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Do they pay very little as a proportion of their income, or very little?
Someone earning £1,000,000 who has managed to dodge the majority of tax and only pays an effective rate of 10% is still paying £100,000
Someone who earns £100,000 and pays an effective rate of 40% is paying £40,000 - still £60,000 short of that tax dodging millionaire.
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One I certainly don't believe, and one that is regularly trotted out by right wing Tories, is that the top 1% of earners pay the top 30% (or similar) of tax.
According to the IFS the top 1% of earners pay 27% of income tax collected and the top 50% pay 90% of income tax. So you're right not to believe the 30% line, but it's not far off. ;)
Page 3 & 4 of this paper from the IFS. (https://www.ifs.org.uk/uploads/publications/bns/BN198.pdf)
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One I certainly don't believe, and one that is regularly trotted out by right wing Tories, is that the top 1% of earners pay the top 30% (or similar) of tax.
According to the IFS the top 1% of earners pay 27% of income tax collected and the top 50% pay 90% of income tax. So you're right not to believe the 30% line, but it's not far off. ;)
Page 3 & 4 of this paper from the IFS. (https://www.ifs.org.uk/uploads/publications/bns/BN198.pdf)
I refuse to believe the rich pay (or have ever paid) much tax.
The expression lies, damn lies, and statistics comes to mind. :)
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Do they pay very little as a proportion of their income, or very little?
Someone earning £1,000,000 who has managed to dodge the majority of tax and only pays an effective rate of 10% is still paying £100,000
Someone who earns £100,000 and pays an effective rate of 40% is paying £40,000 - still £60,000 short of that tax dodging millionaire.
Both.
What pisses me off is that the tax man and the super rich actually come to an agreement or 'accommodation' about how much tax they are willing to pay.
You or I are simply told pay up or else. :(
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Do they pay very little as a proportion of their income, or very little?
Someone earning £1,000,000 who has managed to dodge the majority of tax and only pays an effective rate of 10% is still paying £100,000
Someone who earns £100,000 and pays an effective rate of 40% is paying £40,000 - still £60,000 short of that tax dodging millionaire.
Both.
What pisses me off is that the tax man and the super rich actually come to an agreement or 'accommodation' about how much tax they are willing to pay.
You or I are simply told pay up or else. :(
I agree with this M'lud, especially where big companies are involved. The other corporate scam that pisses me off is where multi national companies can report earnings in the UK, in places like Luxembourg or Lichtenstein. >:(
If the money is earned here, then the tax should be paid here! :y
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One I certainly don't believe, and one that is regularly trotted out by right wing Tories, is that the top 1% of earners pay the top 30% (or similar) of tax.
According to the IFS the top 1% of earners pay 27% of income tax collected and the top 50% pay 90% of income tax. So you're right not to believe the 30% line, but it's not far off. ;)
Page 3 & 4 of this paper from the IFS. (https://www.ifs.org.uk/uploads/publications/bns/BN198.pdf)
I refuse to believe the rich pay (or have ever paid) much tax.
The expression lies, damn lies, and statistics comes to mind. :)
I think a study by the IFS is more believable than what you read in your Daily Mirror M'lud! :P ;D
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What is also worth considering is how large a range of income "the top 1%" covers.
At the bottom end of that 1%, you were earning £108k in 2014/15 according to gov.uk. While I'm by no means saying that's chicken feed, it leaves very little scope to (cost effectively) avoid any tax. Other than committing money to a pension of course, which I assume is a form of tax avoidance which is socially acceptable to most.
At the other end of the 1% you have people like that racketeer Philip Green, who really do pay very little tax.
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What is also worth considering is how large a range of income "the top 1%" covers.
At the bottom end of that 1%, you were earning £108k in 2014/15 according to gov.uk. While I'm by no means saying that's chicken feed, it leaves very little scope to (cost effectively) avoid any tax. Other than committing money to a pension of course, which I assume is a form of tax avoidance which is socially acceptable to most.
At the other end of the 1% you have people like that racketeer Philip Green, who really do pay very little tax.
Indeed, which puts me against this whole "tax the rich business"- I suspect our Head of Department would be classed in this 1%.... he is not "rich" - He drives a Land Rover Freelander, supports his wife and kids.
One day I would like to be in his role, be in 10 years down the road.
Is it wrong of me to think I actually want a reduction in the welfare state? :-\
See far too many people earning what we are told is 25-30k in benefits and not bothering to work.
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I like this song ;D
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/31/liar-liar-anti-theresa-may-song-heads-to-top-of-charts
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I suspect our Head of Department would be classed in this 1%.... he is not "rich"
If I was earning 108K pa or thereabouts I would class myself as rich ???
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I suspect our Head of Department would be classed in this 1%.... he is not "rich"
If I was earning 108K pa or thereabouts I would class myself as rich ???
I wouldn't.. :-X :-X
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What is also worth considering is how large a range of income "the top 1%" covers.
At the bottom end of that 1%, you were earning £108k in 2014/15 according to gov.uk. While I'm by no means saying that's chicken feed, it leaves very little scope to (cost effectively) avoid any tax. Other than committing money to a pension of course, which I assume is a form of tax avoidance which is socially acceptable to most.
At the other end of the 1% you have people like that racketeer Philip Green, who really do pay very little tax.
I like this parasite about as much as I like that arrogant turd Jeremy Kyle.
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One I certainly don't believe, and one that is regularly trotted out by right wing Tories, is that the top 1% of earners pay the top 30% (or similar) of tax.
According to the IFS the top 1% of earners pay 27% of income tax collected and the top 50% pay 90% of income tax. So you're right not to believe the 30% line, but it's not far off. ;)
Page 3 & 4 of this paper from the IFS. (https://www.ifs.org.uk/uploads/publications/bns/BN198.pdf)
I refuse to believe the rich pay (or have ever paid) much tax.
The expression lies, damn lies, and statistics comes to mind. :)
I think a study by the IFS is more believable than what you read in your Daily Mirror M'lud! :P ;D
The Mirror is just a lefty version of the Sun. Same old crap but in left wing form to dupe the gullible and intellectually bereft. :)
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What is also worth considering is how large a range of income "the top 1%" covers.
At the bottom end of that 1%, you were earning £108k in 2014/15 according to gov.uk. While I'm by no means saying that's chicken feed, it leaves very little scope to (cost effectively) avoid any tax. Other than committing money to a pension of course, which I assume is a form of tax avoidance which is socially acceptable to most.
At the other end of the 1% you have people like that racketeer Philip Green, who really do pay very little tax.
Indeed, which puts me against this whole "tax the rich business"- I suspect our Head of Department would be classed in this 1%.... he is not "rich" - He drives a Land Rover Freelander, supports his wife and kids.
One day I would like to be in his role, be in 10 years down the road.
Is it wrong of me to think I actually want a reduction in the welfare state? :-\
See far too many people earning what we are told is 25-30k in benefits and not bothering to work.
It shows you are a rabid right wing Tory. ;)
Just kidding......people can believe whatever they choose until the 'thought police' say otherwise. ;)
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I believe £20K is the ceiling outside of London these days.
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The Mirror is just a lefty version of the Sun. Same old crap but in left wing form to dupe the gullible and intellectually bereft. :)
No shit?! :o ;D
Well feel free to substitute The Guardian, Morning Star, Socialist Worker, Independent, or which ever lefty rag you read in my earlier statement. :y
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I suspect our Head of Department would be classed in this 1%.... he is not "rich"
If I was earning 108K pa or thereabouts I would class myself as rich ???
£108,000.......that's more than 3 times the amount of money in the whole world. :)
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I suspect our Head of Department would be classed in this 1%.... he is not "rich"
If I was earning 108K pa or thereabouts I would class myself as rich ???
I wouldn't.. :-X :-X
Again, I think that the perception is distorted a little compeared with the reality, £108k leaves you with £5700 pcm. A tidy sum for sure. But someone earning 25k could reasonably think you'd walk away with 5x their monthly takehome pay of £1800 (£9000), because, until you earn it, you don't necessarily think about the impact the 40% tax and 5% (effective rate) NI has on the net figure.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting sympathy for someone scraping by on a mere 6 figures, but it isn't as much as people necessarily imagine
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I suspect our Head of Department would be classed in this 1%.... he is not "rich"
If I was earning 108K pa or thereabouts I would class myself as rich ???
I wouldn't.. :-X :-X
Again, I think that the perception is distorted a little compeared with the reality, £108k leaves you with £5700 pcm. A tidy sum for sure. But someone earning 25k could reasonably think you'd walk away with 5x their monthly takehome pay of £1800 (£9000), because, until you earn it, you don't necessarily think about the impact the 40% tax and 5% (effective rate) NI has on the net figure.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting sympathy for someone scraping by on a mere 6 figures, but it isn't as much as people necessarily imagine
Yep. And if you're paying a fair amount in pension contributions, that knocks it right down.
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The Mirror is just a lefty version of the Sun. Same old crap but in left wing form to dupe the gullible and intellectually bereft. :)
No shit?! :o ;D
Well feel free to substitute The Guardian, Morning Star, Socialist Worker, Independent, or which ever lefty rag you read in my earlier statement. :y
Home of the best page 3 girl in the newspaper world. :D ;)
These commie girls are not shy in getting their kit off.
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I suspect our Head of Department would be classed in this 1%.... he is not "rich"
If I was earning 108K pa or thereabouts I would class myself as rich ???
I wouldn't.. :-X :-X
Again, I think that the perception is distorted a little compeared with the reality, £108k leaves you with £5700 pcm. A tidy sum for sure. But someone earning 25k could reasonably think you'd walk away with 5x their monthly takehome pay of £1800 (£9000), because, until you earn it, you don't necessarily think about the impact the 40% tax and 5% (effective rate) NI has on the net figure.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting sympathy for someone scraping by on a mere 6 figures, but it isn't as much as people necessarily imagine
All doubly true if you live in London. :y
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Agreed.
Certainly in my line of work, I couldn't see how being in London added up financially until you were at the very top of the tree. My salary in Northampton is probably 75-80% of what it would be in London, but our quality of life is incomparable.
However I do recognise I am in the fortunate position of having a career where I can work anywhere. Most are not so fortunate.
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Jeremy has thrown down the gauntlet and Theresa has chickened out. She stumbled and stammered and said she'd rather be out and about with the people. Hmmmmmm .... ::)
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Jeremy has thrown down the gauntlet and Theresa has chickened out. She stumbled and stammered and said she'd rather be out and about with the people. Hmmmmmm .... ::)
I was expecting mother Theresa to walk the election. I still think she'll win, but perhaps not by as much as I first thought.
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Jeremy has thrown down the gauntlet and Theresa has chickened out. She stumbled and stammered and said she'd rather be out and about with the people. Hmmmmmm .... ::)
I was expecting mother Theresa to walk the election. I still think she'll win, but perhaps not by as much as I first thought.
The reason she called the election in the first place is now coming into question. She said that it was to obtain a clear majority to strengthen he negotiating position at the brexit table, but people have realised that she had a lot more up her sleeve than that. The tories manifesto has no firm figures or even a timetable, just "we'll tell you after the election". People are not fools.
The SNP have made no bones about the fact that they will support Labour against austerity and, if Theresa doesn't pull a rabbit out of the hat, there could be a horrendous coalition between them.
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Jeremy has thrown down the gauntlet and Theresa has chickened out. She stumbled and stammered and said she'd rather be out and about with the people. Hmmmmmm .... ::)
I was expecting mother Theresa to walk the election. I still think she'll win, but perhaps not by as much as I first thought.
My thoughts exactly.She is quite unimpressive, but I trust most grown ups to realise that the alternative doesn't bear thinking about.
She should be in a position to pull off the biggest majority in history, but that wont happen.
If Corbyn were to win, I would for the first time in my life, be ashamed to be British.
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"Quite unimpressive"? She a lying harridan. ;D
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Jeremy has thrown down the gauntlet and Theresa has chickened out. She stumbled and stammered and said she'd rather be out and about with the people. Hmmmmmm .... ::)
Yes.
Doesn't bode well for the EU negotiations when she can be quelled by a single bearded sandal wearing vegetarian.
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You can call Jeremy what you like, but he certainly knows how to play the game. He's had this trick up his sleeve for a while. Challenge Theresa to a debate when she's 200 miles away with no hope of making it. Superb ;D
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He aint stupid at all. He has an image which is a cross between Father Christmas and your favourite uncle. The truth imo, is that he is a deeply sinister character.
He has been proven to be a liar more than once in the last week, yet the media still present him as an honest decent, well meaning fella.
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Jeremy has thrown down the gauntlet and Theresa has chickened out. She stumbled and stammered and said she'd rather be out and about with the people. Hmmmmmm .... ::)
I was expecting mother Theresa to walk the election. I still think she'll win, but perhaps not by as much as I first thought.
My thoughts exactly.She is quite unimpressive, but I trust most grown ups to realise that the alternative doesn't bear thinking about.
She should be in a position to pull off the biggest majority in history, but that wont happen.
If Corbyn were to win, I would for the first time in my life, be ashamed to be British.
People said that when we voted to leave the EU. They got over it, so will you.
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He has been proven to be a liar more than once in the last week, yet the media still present him as an honest decent, well meaning fella.
If that's your litmus test then no suitable candidate has to be your only vote, or possibly the greens??
Mother Theresa has had a pretty soft ride of it so far in The media.
Can you imagine if Corbyn had stood in front of a 100% uncosted manifesto and then performed several u-turns on key policies in there? No way he'd have got the ride Theresa got. Diane Abott has been rightly worked over for the numbers gaff re police. But senior Torres have done similar with only a fraction of the coverage.
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Not saying I will never get over it, but it would still be a catastrophe.
As for our future home secretary..........................
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pj8VOGW03fM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg2YYAsEz70
http://salisburyreview.com/2017/05/diane-abbott-future-home-secretary-every-defeat-of-the-british-state-is-a-victory-for-all-of-us/
Not just a disgraceful excuse for an MP, but a disgraceful excuse for a human being.
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He has been proven to be a liar more than once in the last week, yet the media still present him as an honest decent, well meaning fella.
If that's your litmus test then no suitable candidate has to be your only vote, or possibly the greens??
Mother Theresa has had a pretty soft ride of it so far in The media.
Can you imagine if Corbyn had stood in front of a 100% uncosted manifesto and then performed several u-turns on key policies in there? No way he'd have got the ride Theresa got. Diane Abott has been rightly worked over for the numbers gaff re police. But senior Torres have done similar with only a fraction of the coverage.
I'm not defending the Tories. So far, I have never voted for them in my life. My point was that we know politicians are liars, but Corbyn is presented as the one who is different because he is honest and decent, when he is the complete opposite. ;)
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Not saying I will never get over it, but it would still be a catastrophe.
As for our future home secretary..........................
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pj8VOGW03fM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg2YYAsEz70
http://salisburyreview.com/2017/05/diane-abbott-future-home-secretary-every-defeat-of-the-british-state-is-a-victory-for-all-of-us/
Not just a disgraceful excuse for an MP, but a disgraceful excuse for a human being.
I'm afraid that's a pretty weak argument, Albs....I refer you to.......Boris! ;D
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Boris is pretty harmless in comparison. These are people who hate everything about the Western way of life and want to destroy it from the inside.
The tedious debate between the various pygmies is on TV at the moment because swmbo wants to watch it. I'm toying with the idea of tearing my eyelids off and stuffing them in my ears. ::) ;D
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My take, thus far, is this: Mother Theresa thought that the thing uppermost in people's minds was brexit. She was the obvious choice to negotiate for a deal, so she would be elected. Wrong. Brexit comes a very distant second to tuition fees for students, pensions for pensioners, the NHS for doctors and nurses and (I know this first hand) education for teachers and parents.
The average Joe does not give a flying f**k about the national debt or a good deal with Europe, they are more interested in what's in their pockets and what's happening in hospitals and schools.
Oh...and benefit claimants get to vote too.
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I'm afraid that's a pretty weak argument, Albs....I refer you to.......Boris! ;D
Agreed.
Would you rather have Keri Starmer QC out there negotiating or Boris wiff waff, oh he's a goat fu(ker j Johnson.
The Tory tactic ATM is to make it all about personalities, seemingly because they can't settle on, or cost their policies.
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Boriswont be doing the negotiating, David Davis will, and hes a pretty intelligent, sensible bloke. As for Kier Starmer, I have heard him spout articulate shite on countless occasions. This is what happens when morons are given the benefit of a good education.
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I have no doubt that a labour government could be economically ruinous, but that's ok. After a five year long party, a nice conservative will come along and tell us we've all been very naughty and they'll have to cut our pocket money. ;D
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Boriswont be doing the negotiating, David Davis will, and hes a pretty intelligent, sensible bloke. As for Kier Starmer, I have heard him spout articulate shite on countless occasions. This is what happens when morons are given the benefit of a good education.
This is all in your opinion, of course, Albs. ;D
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But my opinion is the correct one. Always was, always will be. You should know that. :P ;D
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Boriswont be doing the negotiating, David Davis will, and hes a pretty intelligent, sensible bloke.
Yup, the man who thinks Southern Ireland is internal to the UK.
Stunning.
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I have no doubt that a labour government could be economically ruinous, but that's ok. After a five year long party, a nice conservative will come along and tell us we've all been very naughty and they'll have to cut our pocket money. ;D
And then all the economically illiterate bleeding heart lefties squeal about austerity, child poverty, food banks etc etc until enough people believe them and the cycle repeats itself. ::)
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Boriswont be doing the negotiating, David Davis will, and hes a pretty intelligent, sensible bloke.
Yup, the man who thinks Southern Ireland is internal to the UK.
Stunning.
Explain please ?
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Well, you see, Albs, Eire is not part of the UK. Thought you'd know that...being Irish an all. ;D
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I have no doubt that a labour government could be economically ruinous, but that's ok. After a five year long party, a nice conservative will come along and tell us we've all been very naughty and they'll have to cut our pocket money. ;D
And then all the economically illiterate bleeding heart lefties squeal about austerity, child poverty, food banks etc etc until enough people believe them and the cycle repeats itself. ::)
Yeah. But at least we get to have a blowout. ;D
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He described the border between norn iron and southern Ireland as an internal border for the UK.
Therefore, under the same rules Diane is judged by, his credibility is forever shot. Or is that not how it works for him?
But again, it wasn't widely reported. Funnily enough ::)
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I think I know what he was getting at. It is a UK border, which is non of the EU,s business. It is purely a matter for the Govt. of the U.K. and the Republic of Ireland.
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He described the border between norn iron and southern Ireland as an internal border for the UK.
Therefore, under the same rules Diane is judged by, his credibility is forever shot. Or is that not how it works for him?
But again, it wasn't widely reported. Funnily enough ::)
I didn't know that, and I know everything. I'll have to have a word with myself.
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I think I know what he was getting at. It is a UK border, which is non of the EU,s business. It is purely a matter for the Govt. of the U.K. and the Republic of Ireland.
Usually calm and composed I thought DD seemed a little rattled on channel 4 news tonight.
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I think I know what he was getting at. It is a UK border, which is non of the EU,s business. It is purely a matter for the Govt. of the U.K. and the Republic of Ireland.
Not so. The Republic is part of the EU and even has the Euro as it's currency. It is more EU than UK, and it's the EU's border with the UK.
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But matters of how that border operates should be between the UK and Dublin Governments. They always have been in the past, and there is no justifiable reason why people in offices in Brussels ,who have no real world experience of the situation there, should be allowed to get involved in that. It would be a certain recipe for disaster.
I suppose, if the Dublin Govt. allow the EU to be involved, there isn't much we could do, apart from create a new border 100 yards inside Norn Irn, and tell them to far cough and mind their own business.
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The Dublin Government will obey the rules of the club of which they are a member. Let's face it, if ever there was a country that did well out of membership.......... ::)
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Are there rules governing the border between the EU and the world outside of the EU ?
when I hear people like Juncker speaking about what they want for the Irish border, it fills me with fear and dread.
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Are there rules governing the border between the EU and the world outside of the EU ?
when I hear people like Juncker speaking about what they want for the Irish border, it fills me with fear and dread.
I have no idea, Albs. Nor does David Davies, apparently.
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Just remembered. Emily Thornberry (shadow foreign secretary, and infamous for taking the piss out of white van men) said a couple of days ago that we cant export our food to Australia because it would go off before it got there. ;D ;D
The whole election debate process is turning into an episode of The thick of it. ::)
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Are there rules governing the border between the EU and the world outside of the EU ?
when I hear people like Juncker speaking about what they want for the Irish border, it fills me with fear and dread.
I have no idea, Albs. Nor does David Davies, apparently.
Depends on exactly what he said,and in what context. I would like to see a video of it.
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Crikey, I came back to elaborate on my off-the-cuff mobile-phone-post about salaries over £100k and there are three pages of other stuff between here and there, now! ;D ;D
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Its that bloody STEMO. Theres just no shutting him up. ;D
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You should be thankful that my pearls of wisdom are for free. ;D
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You should be thankful that my pearls of wisdom are for free. ;D
Indeedy :y
As Baz Lurhman once wrote, be wary of advice you pay for... ;)
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You should be thankful that my pearls of wisdom are for free. ;D
Indeedy :y
As Baz Lurhman once wrote, be wary of advice you pay for... ;)
And always wear sunscreen.
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You should be thankful that my pearls of wisdom are for free. ;D
Indeedy :y
As Baz Lurhman once wrote, be wary of advice you pay for... ;)
And always wear sunscreen.
Or a hat... ;D
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mmm this little snippet has been kept pretty quiet ...
"Andrew Murray, who was the chair of the Stop the War Coalition and until last December a long-time member of the Communist Party of Britain, has been seconded from Unite, where he is chief of staff, to work as a strategist on Corbyn’s campaign."
:(
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Polls open in 19 hours... going to alot take more than some idiot from Unite to fix Labour ::)
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Putting aside the issues mentioned earlier, the Labour party's position does look more appealing to the average voter than the the Tories. Theresa has just been on the news banging on about a Brexit, Brexit, Brexit. Jeremy was mooting pensions, hospitals and education.
Now, the more intelligent among us would ask how Labour we're going to pay for all of this and, of course, ridicule Diane Abbot, amongst others.
But will the man in the street really think that deeply or just take the parties at face value? I don't know :-\
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Putting aside the issues mentioned earlier, the Labour party's position does look more appealing to the average voter than the the Tories. Theresa has just been on the news banging on about a Brexit, Brexit, Brexit. Jeremy was mooting pensions, hospitals and education.
Now, the more intelligent among us would ask how Labour we're going to pay for all of this and, of course, ridicule Diane Abbot, amongst others.
But will the man in the street really think that deeply or just take the parties at face value? I don't know :-\
A comment wasted on here. :D ::) ::) ::) ::)
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Putting aside the issues mentioned earlier, the Labour party's position does look more appealing to the average voter than the the Tories. Theresa has just been on the news banging on about a Brexit, Brexit, Brexit. Jeremy was mooting pensions, hospitals and education.
Now, the more intelligent among us would ask how Labour we're going to pay for all of this and, of course, ridicule Diane Abbot, amongst others.
But will the man in the street really think that deeply or just take the parties at face value? I don't know :-\
Yep, the trend of modern society is to spend, spend, spend, and spend again. If you run out of credit, just get a new card and repeat the self satisfying process. So, Labour will always appeal to the gullible, with many forgetting the dark days leading up, and beyond 2010, that was assisted greatly by Labour over spending as normal.
Anyone who suggests cutting back, saving, making good provision for the future, will never appeal so much. A big worry, as it is possible we about about to re-enter the dark days yet again with Labour. :( :( :( I will try and do my very little bit to stop that!
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Thing is, the Brexit deal and the three years afterwards are critical to the development of the UK economy in a global market. Get it right, and we will have a much stronger economy with which to end the whole labour sponsored austerity issue and invest in the future of our independent nation.
Yes hospitals, schools and policing are all important issues, but to focus on these before ensuring our post Brexit future is madness.
Imagine Labour win this election. Lie down in a dark room for a week. Once the horror has worn off consider this...
In 18 or so months time we will be a bankrupt mess on the verge of being automatically excluded from all EU trade with no say in our future and no plan in place to deal with it. Cue either another election, or more likely, a revolution.
No. Regardless of political sympathy, there is still only one way to vote tomorrow... ;)
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Putting aside the issues mentioned earlier, the Labour party's position does look more appealing to the average voter than the the Tories. Theresa has just been on the news banging on about a Brexit, Brexit, Brexit. Jeremy was mooting pensions, hospitals and education.
Now, the more intelligent among us would ask how Labour we're going to pay for all of this and, of course, ridicule Diane Abbot, amongst others.
But will the man in the street really think that deeply or just take the parties at face value? I don't know :-\
A comment wasted on here. :D ::) ::) ::) ::)
You certainly are right there Lord William 'Willy' Sittapong Meerkat. There are far too many people on here that don't use their brains, they are too busy following their own and other people's willies. ::) ::) ::) :P :P :P
Lord Ashcroft's constituency-by-constituency pole and prediction is interesting, where he estimates a Conservative Government with a majority of between 48 and 70 seats.
The left is really trying to talk up the closer polls, especially YouGov who are using a new experimental algorithm, but the more credible ones are still predicting about an 8% to 10% Conservative lead. All through the campaign, the Conservative 43-45% has not changed, the narrowing lead has been Liebour's improving. Mid 40's is a big improvement for the Conservatives over the high 30's in the 2010 and 2015 elections. Polls have traditionally tended to underestimate those that cross the Conservative box when in the booth marking their ballot paper and the weather forecast is wet which also traditionally helps the Conservatives.
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Thing is, the Brexit deal and the three years afterwards are critical to the development of the UK economy in a global market. Get it right, and we will have a much stronger economy with which to end the whole labour sponsored austerity issue and invest in the future of our independent nation.
Yes hospitals, schools and policing are all important issues, but to focus on these before ensuring our post Brexit future is madness.
Imagine Labour win this election. Lie down in a dark room for a week. Once the horror has worn off consider this...
In 18 or so months time we will be a bankrupt mess on the verge of being automatically excluded from all EU trade with no say in our future and no plan in place to deal with it. Cue either another election, or more likely, a revolution.
No. Regardless of political sympathy, there is still only one way to vote tomorrow... ;)
A bit of a daft reply, really, as I wasn't trying to preach to the converted ::) And, as usual, you forgot to add 'IMO'.
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Opinion is a given ;)
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Right...because no one...and I mean no one, knows the outcome of the Brexit negotiations. We could end up skint and friendless in two years no matter who is in government. What makes people think that Theresa will get a better deal than anyone else I don't know. She is haughty and condescending, not the best person to take our case to Brussels. Jeremy is weak and inexperienced, so........... :-\
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Imo...
Status quo has to be better than the complete farce guaranteed if the worse should happen... Corbyn couldn't organise a bag drop at check in, let alone a meaningful cabinet ::)
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Imo...
Status quo has to be better than the complete farce guaranteed if the worse should happen... Corbyn couldn't organise a bag drop at check in, let alone a meaningful cabinet ::)
I very much doubt we'll get the chance to find out.
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May wont be doing most of the Brexit negotiating. David Davis (or his replacement*) will. I have a lot of time for Davis, and would probably trust him with the job.
*I read yesterday that she is planning on replacing him with Ben Gummer. I seriously hope not. His reaction to the referendum result was "It has made me physically ill". ::)
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Imo...
Status quo has to be better than the complete farce guaranteed if the worse should happen... Corbyn couldn't organise a bag drop at check in, let alone a meaningful cabinet ::)
I very much doubt we'll get the chance to find out.
Thee and mee both... should have a rough idea in 36 hours ;)
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Imo...
Status quo has to be better than the complete farce guaranteed if the worse should happen... Corbyn couldn't organise a bag drop at check in, let alone a meaningful cabinet ::)
If he wins, you watch the PLP come crawling back like the hypocrites they are! ::)