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[Nick W]

Yes and once they get a load of them bought and on our roads they will definitely find some half arsed excuse to double some or other stealth tax and your fkd of course when you’ve committed to buying one of them

Anyone who bought an EV thinking that charging one wasn't quickly going to be taxed at least as much as fuel is a oppsing idiot. Just look back 30 years at what happened to diesel.


Now that's starting to happen, the day to day cost of 'fuelling' one has dramatically narrowed the price gap with petrol/diesel. Combine the profiteering massive extra cost of buying the thing in the first place with the extra inconvenience for more than occasional local use, and the maths no longer adds up for most people. And that was their main justification for buying one, with a warm fuzzy feeling as a nice bonus.


Warm fuzzy feelings are a terrible way of making complex decisions, especially when no politician is brave enough to tell the whole and unpalatable truth: we've become slaves to personal mobility because it looked affordable. That bill is now due, and it's expensive. This is the real reason for the introduction of 'stealth' taxes for driving in cities, and is why those are derided by people who can't won't believe.

[TheBoy]

Mine still works well for us, by far the cheapest car to fuel we have 

IIRC, you got a 22KW charger at home as part of the deal?  It probably wouldn't work if you only had a 13A charger (well, given the number of cars the DTM household has, it probably wouldn't matter ), or if you were reliant on public chargers, which some people are.

You still managing the to "borrow" electricity from work?


I will say, after that quick blast in your I-Pace, I did have a quick gander .  But just too expensive for us.

Its a 7kW (as that is the max you can get at home), but works well enough.

And yes, the comopany electricity 'loan' scheme is still active 

Pretty certain you can get 22KW at home now, but might be dependent on feed, or potentially a second feed.

7KW might not work for some, as I imagine the I-Pace is a 100KWhr batt, or there abouts?  The maths using 100% charging efficiency () is simple enough.

But for those it works for, I've always said electric motors are as near to an ideal traction power you can get, technically. Though I will accept Opti's undoubted view about soul and excitement.

For those, its the remaining worries are purchase price and the relative unknown of battery ageing, and subsequent battery replacement costs, particularly in the 2nd user market.

[TheBoy]

Anyone who bought an EV thinking that charging one wasn't quickly going to be taxed at least as much as fuel is a oppsing idiot. Just look back 30 years at what happened to diesel.

I suspect the usual suspects will be lobbying for ICE cars to be royally raped in taxation soon, thereby forcing everyone to either public transport only, or the perceived utopia of 100% green, carbon free, electricity.

[Doctor Gollum]

I notice that the model X is too posh to have gull wing doors and has falcon wing doors instead 

They're double hinged, where as gull wing are singe hinged

[Doctor Gollum]

What's the range for the ipace? Hypothetical and actual.

3 phase 32 amp 240v charging works out at 13.29kwh, so £31 for 7 hours charge... Assuming that you use 93%of the battery.

Factor in the preffered battery usage window of 20-80% that gives you an ideal range of about 60% of whatever figure the marketing wank suggests and that's before you use it in the cold or rain.

So whilst it may cost significantly less to 'fill' than an IC car, the actual unit cost per mile available is much higher.

[Nick W]

I notice that the model X is too posh to have gull wing doors and has falcon wing doors instead 

They're double hinged, where as gull wing are single hinged

What a marketing feature!


Double hinged doors!


From Tesla, so unless they're battery operated, there's a bloody good chance of them dropping on your head!


Who wouldn't be convinced?


At least we know where the genius who decided the key to making the mk4 Golf microscopically less boring was to have blue dashlights, ended up.

[Doctor Gollum]

 

I think the theory is that they can be opened in a tight space. Obviously they hadn't considered what might happen in a multi storey carpark with a 7' clearance under a beam


Which is probably why the sliding door was invented

Different colour dash lights on the various VW products is the only way to tell them apart

[Raeturbo]

Yes and once they get a load of them bought and on our roads they will definitely find some half arsed excuse to double some or other stealth tax and your fkd of course when you’ve committed to buying one of them

Anyone who bought an EV thinking that charging one wasn't quickly going to be taxed at least as much as fuel is a oppsing idiot. Just look back 30 years at what happened to diesel.


Now that's starting to happen, the day to day cost of 'fuelling' one has dramatically narrowed the price gap with petrol/diesel. Combine the profiteering massive extra cost of buying the thing in the first place with the extra inconvenience for more than occasional local use, and the maths no longer adds up for most people. And that was their main justification for buying one, with a warm fuzzy feeling as a nice bonus.


Warm fuzzy feelings are a terrible way of making complex decisions, especially when no politician is brave enough to tell the whole and unpalatable truth: we've become slaves to personal mobility because it looked affordable. That bill is now due, and it's expensive. This is the real reason for the introduction of 'stealth' taxes for driving in cities, and is why those are derided by people who can't won't believe.

                   Or in short we’re going  to get bent over and shafted once again and with increasing frequency.

[Marks DTM Calib]

Mine still works well for us, by far the cheapest car to fuel we have 

IIRC, you got a 22KW charger at home as part of the deal?  It probably wouldn't work if you only had a 13A charger (well, given the number of cars the DTM household has, it probably wouldn't matter ), or if you were reliant on public chargers, which some people are.

You still managing the to "borrow" electricity from work?


I will say, after that quick blast in your I-Pace, I did have a quick gander .  But just too expensive for us.

Its a 7kW (as that is the max you can get at home), but works well enough.

And yes, the comopany electricity 'loan' scheme is still active 

Pretty certain you can get 22KW at home now, but might be dependent on feed, or potentially a second feed.

7KW might not work for some, as I imagine the I-Pace is a 100KWhr batt, or there abouts?  The maths using 100% charging efficiency () is simple enough.

But for those it works for, I've always said electric motors are as near to an ideal traction power you can get, technically. Though I will accept Opti's undoubted view about soul and excitement.

For those, its the remaining worries are purchase price and the relative unknown of battery ageing, and subsequent battery replacement costs, particularly in the 2nd user market.

22kW requires a 3 phase supply   

Battery ageing looks to be very dependent on technology and the company, Ours are doing very well, as are Tesla, VAG and Renault on the other hand are shockingly bad

[Marks DTM Calib]

What's the range for the ipace? Hypothetical and actual.

3 phase 32 amp 240v charging works out at 13.29kwh, so £31 for 7 hours charge... Assuming that you use 93%of the battery.

Factor in the preffered battery usage window of 20-80% that gives you an ideal range of about 60% of whatever figure the marketing wank suggests and that's before you use it in the cold or rain.

So whilst it may cost significantly less to 'fill' than an IC car, the actual unit cost per mile available is much higher.

Different between summer and winter.

In the summer I managed to do a round trip from Nottingham to Scarborough and back on a single charge (so about 250 miles).

In the cold we get about 200-210  miles so still not to bad.

What you have to bare in mind is that the iPace does not let you fully charge or discharge the battery (so 100% on the cluster is actually around 93% on the actual battery)

By the way, your calcs for a 3 phase supply are wrong (it is 22kW)

The marketing figures are actually a driven figure based on a standard cycle but, its done at a certain model spec and in a certain 'climate', so think very narrow tyres, low spec, low weight etc. Of course nobody buys the pram wheels or the bogo spec

Its smart charging at night rates so much less than that to fill (and less still at work)

[Marks DTM Calib]

I notice that the model X is too posh to have gull wing doors and has falcon wing doors instead 

They're double hinged, where as gull wing are singe hinged

Not interlocked with drive enable though.....:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEYcoqBLifQ

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

I notice that the model X is too posh to have gull wing doors and has falcon wing doors instead 

They're double hinged, where as gull wing are singe hinged

Not interlocked with drive enable though.....:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEYcoqBLifQ

Who is the driver?....Forrest Gump.

"Mama always used to say stupid is as stupid does"

[Nick W]

Yes and once they get a load of them bought and on our roads they will definitely find some half arsed excuse to double some or other stealth tax and your fkd of course when you’ve committed to buying one of them

Anyone who bought an EV thinking that charging one wasn't quickly going to be taxed at least as much as fuel is a oppsing idiot. Just look back 30 years at what happened to diesel.


Now that's starting to happen, the day to day cost of 'fuelling' one has dramatically narrowed the price gap with petrol/diesel. Combine the profiteering massive extra cost of buying the thing in the first place with the extra inconvenience for more than occasional local use, and the maths no longer adds up for most people. And that was their main justification for buying one, with a warm fuzzy feeling as a nice bonus.


Warm fuzzy feelings are a terrible way of making complex decisions, especially when no politician is brave enough to tell the whole and unpalatable truth: we've become slaves to personal mobility because it looked affordable. That bill is now due, and it's expensive. This is the real reason for the introduction of 'stealth' taxes for driving in cities, and is why those are derided by people who can't won't believe.

                   Or in short we’re going  to get bent over and shafted once again and with increasing frequency.

It started 70 years ago when the roads began to fill with people driving their own cars to work and play. It got worse when they decided that driving for 90minutes each way was acceptable in time, money and resources. The total costs of that were never entirely apparent, unlike now. Perhaps we should bill our parents for them? Except they paid for the overuse of coal, and their parents for horses, and before that something had to be done about the wood supply, or the lack of caves to live in.

[Doctor Gollum]

Maths was based on the following...

(square root of 3)1.73 x 32A x 240V = 13,286.4Wh or 13.29kWh

So to charge 93kW would take 7 hours.

22kWh would require a current of 53A which is somewhat optimistic for a domestic supply, even three phase.

[Doctor Gollum]

Yes and once they get a load of them bought and on our roads they will definitely find some half arsed excuse to double some or other stealth tax and your fkd of course when you’ve committed to buying one of them

Anyone who bought an EV thinking that charging one wasn't quickly going to be taxed at least as much as fuel is a oppsing idiot. Just look back 30 years at what happened to diesel.


Now that's starting to happen, the day to day cost of 'fuelling' one has dramatically narrowed the price gap with petrol/diesel. Combine the profiteering massive extra cost of buying the thing in the first place with the extra inconvenience for more than occasional local use, and the maths no longer adds up for most people. And that was their main justification for buying one, with a warm fuzzy feeling as a nice bonus.


Warm fuzzy feelings are a terrible way of making complex decisions, especially when no politician is brave enough to tell the whole and unpalatable truth: we've become slaves to personal mobility because it looked affordable. That bill is now due, and it's expensive. This is the real reason for the introduction of 'stealth' taxes for driving in cities, and is why those are derided by people who can't won't believe.

                   Or in short we’re going  to get bent over and shafted once again and with increasing frequency.

It started 70 years ago when the roads began to fill with people driving their own cars to work and play. It got worse when they decided that driving for 90minutes each way was acceptable in time, money and resources. The total costs of that were never entirely apparent, unlike now. Perhaps we should bill our parents for them? Except they paid for the overuse of coal, and their parents for horses, and before that something had to be done about the wood supply, or the lack of caves to live in.

Here's the thing... 5,500 people live in my village. Assuming that only half are of working age, there aren't 2,750 jobs within a 15 minute anything.

You only need to go 4 miles up the road and there's two villages with 10,000 people in each, so using the same assumption that's another 5,000 people to employ. So in a 4 mile radius that's conservatively about 13,000 people to employ. And that's just three villages. You don't have to go too much further to start hitting towns with population in the tens of thousands.

As long as free choice exists, then people will commute to those places either with negative unemployment or where their specific skill set has value. The alternative is that we all become slaves of the state with free food, water, housing and energy.

Unfortunately time and time again, this Marxist utopia simply doesn't work and will therefore never exist.

And even if it could, it would take so long to set up the infrastructure that it will take whole millenia to achieve, Neom being a case in point.