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Author Topic: Omega 3.2 Elite V6 (2002) Heater Bypass Valve symptons  (Read 511 times)

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johnnydog

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Re: Omega 3.2 Elite V6 (2002) Heater Bypass Valve symptons
« Reply #15 on: 16 September 2023, 22:49:00 »

Can you not see it DG - having an opinion and therefore offering suggestions relative to the subject and your experience of carrying out the said repair or any fault finding is what owners would like to get in response to queries - not to have your views (whether right or wrong, but in your mind the ONLY method to carry out the repair because that is how you have tackled it) forced down their throat as the only way to approach the problem. Helpful suggestions put in a polite and not condescending manner go along way to commanding respect, rather than your attitude that quite frankly alienates members.
I may be out spoken with my thoughts about this, but I can say with my hand on my heart, I am certainly not on my own with these views about your attitude.
Incidentally, your reference regarding Police mechanics and windscreens is bit of a deflection I guess.....?
There is no definitive method about doing jobs - lowering the diff to change rear springs is one classic example - changed a good  number over the years and never once lowered the diff to do the job. Just because I change them with a different method to that in the maintenance guide doesn't mean that that is only way, and the way others MUST do it, or the World will suddenly end...
Take a step back, and look at your comments on this and other topics, and maybe, just maybe, you will understand the reasoning that has brought this to the fore....
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dave the builder

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Re: Omega 3.2 Elite V6 (2002) Heater Bypass Valve symptons
« Reply #16 on: 16 September 2023, 23:14:48 »

I've had 4 carltons and one omega in the last 23 years (as my daily drivers)

I've never lowered the diff to replace rear springs  :-[

maybe i should read the manual before doing jobs  ;D
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Omega 3.2 Elite V6 (2002) Heater Bypass Valve symptons
« Reply #17 on: 16 September 2023, 23:23:44 »

I've had 4 carltons and one omega in the last 23 years (as my daily drivers)

I've never lowered the diff to replace rear springs  :-[

maybe i should read the manual before doing jobs  ;D
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johnnydog

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Re: Omega 3.2 Elite V6 (2002) Heater Bypass Valve symptons
« Reply #18 on: 16 September 2023, 23:28:08 »

And I also think that because you do not own an Omega and have not done for many a year, your memory of what is removed to get the scuttle off is a little hazy, and therefore not entirely correct. You refer to the bottom trim being forced out of position or removed to access the scuttle trim clips ( I assume you actually mean the moulding here). The frame / retainer also doesn't have to be twisted away in any circumstances, to remove the 'lower trim' (moulding to give it its correct name), which in turn gives good access to the twist 'pins' to then remove the plastic scuttle panel. Why would you even consider removing the bottom  frame? The moulding yes for easy access, and to prevent damage to it and the retainer / frame caused by twisting it upwards to access the twist pins / clips. Your reference to the windscreen components is a little misleading...
To remove the lower moulding (it's correct name), I simply get a pick tool, lubricate it with rubber grease, gently ease the tongue at one end out of the retainer/ frame or whatever you wish to call it, and then slide the pick tool along the length of the frame against the tongue of the moulding which doesn't put undue pressure on either the frame and tongue and also saves any distortion of the moulding. Helped of course with the moulding tongue having been previously lightly lubricated....
Works every time for me. But obviously your method has previously caused you issues and maybe damage to the frame and or moulding.
But this is just my point. Helpful suggestions...

Any way, I'm going to leave this whole subject at that now and give you time to reflect....
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Omega 3.2 Elite V6 (2002) Heater Bypass Valve symptons
« Reply #19 on: 17 September 2023, 00:18:04 »

@Johhnydog...

In jumping straight to the point re the scuttle, you missed a whole paragraph regarding the coolant leaks and alternative sources to the ubiquitous HBV.

As the car in question is going to be repaired by a garage they will, hopefully, carry out a complete diagnosis and repair it as they see fit. All of which makes any advice/opinion/guidance/experience offered here somewhat moot.

Besides, this is the internet, unless anyone posting in response to any given query has actually set eyes on the car to which the query relates, all that can be offered is experience/opinion/conjecture/guesstimate and therefore can neither be construed as right or wrong. Being as stubborn as LZ does not make someone right or wrong.

James V6 is probably the most forthcoming with actually getting stuck in with assistance, and I have also carried out various jobs for members over the years, albeit less so more recently due to availability constraints. Rather than picking holes in whatever advice/opinion/conjecture etc other people deign to put forward, perhaps you might bite your tongue. I might then be compelled to do the same.
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Omega 3.2 Elite V6 (2002) Heater Bypass Valve symptons
« Reply #20 on: 17 September 2023, 00:46:53 »

And I also think that because you do not own an Omega and have not done for many a year, your memory of what is removed to get the scuttle off is a little hazy, and therefore not entirely correct. You refer to the bottom trim being forced out of position or removed to access the scuttle trim clips ( I assume you actually mean the moulding here). The frame / retainer also doesn't have to be twisted away in any circumstances, to remove the 'lower trim' (moulding to give it its correct name), which in turn gives good access to the twist 'pins' to then remove the plastic scuttle panel. Why would you even consider removing the bottom  frame? The moulding yes for easy access, and to prevent damage to it and the retainer / frame caused by twisting it upwards to access the twist pins / clips. Your reference to the windscreen components is a little misleading...
To remove the lower moulding (it's correct name), I simply get a pick tool, lubricate it with rubber grease, gently ease the tongue at one end out of the retainer/ frame or whatever you wish to call it, and then slide the pick tool along the length of the frame against the tongue of the moulding which doesn't put undue pressure on either the frame and tongue and also saves any distortion of the moulding. Helped of course with the moulding tongue having been previously lightly lubricated....
Works every time for me. But obviously your method has previously caused you issues and maybe damage to the frame and or moulding.
But this is just my point. Helpful suggestions...

Any way, I'm going to leave this whole subject at that now and give you time to reflect....
Wipers off, six quarter turn clips and the rubber lip from the forward edge is all that the scuttle is held in by and unplug the washer hose and heated washer jet loom as you lift it away. From my hazy memory ::)

The lower moulding is fitted to the frame that slides onto the windscreen, (the rest of the moulding is attached the same way). Replacement screens are typically provided with aftermarket frames and the factory mouldings quite often do not fit into these aftermarket frames as securely as they should. And as the frames are of an inferior quality to the factory ones, they can crack, rendering them even more ineffective.

To clip the moulding back into the frame you have to apply downward pressure to, hopefully, lock it into place. The torsion acting on the frame stems from the fact that it is only supported by the edge of the glass as there's nothing underneath it to prevent it being pushed away from the lower edge of the screen. The connection between the lower frame and side frames are thinner than a bank card and once corroded have limited strength if you start manhandling the mouldings.

Your method may work well for you with your pristine low mileage garage kept show piece Omegas still blessed with their originally fitted screens/frames/mouldings.

My issues in the area of the screen mouldings stem from poorly fitted screens and aftermarket frames/trims, the reuse of the originals in poor condition, or a combination of all the above. Ergo I would avoid removing the scuttle and disturbing the moulding  and, indirectly, the frame it locates in unless absolutely necessary.

I also add milk to the tea then remove the teabag, which some may consider wrong.
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STEMO

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Re: Omega 3.2 Elite V6 (2002) Heater Bypass Valve symptons
« Reply #21 on: 17 September 2023, 06:37:27 »

Sorry about all this Gary (OP), it happens from time to time on all forums. On this particular forum, people really do know their omegas and, as is obvious, have been maintaining them, in their own way, for years.
I hope, after all of this, it actually is the hbv  ;D
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johnnydog

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Re: Omega 3.2 Elite V6 (2002) Heater Bypass Valve symptons
« Reply #22 on: 17 September 2023, 08:44:39 »

Yes, I too apologise Gary for the responses. You had what I consider a helpful and reasonable response to your query, until no.3 soured the mix. I think you can get the gist of how the responses unfolded, and the underlying cause for them. It was unfortunate that it was on your topic, and that I felt the need to highlight (once again) that there is no room on a forum such as this for anything other than helpful, informative suggestions (suggestions - that's all they are!!) from which the OP can then hopefully tackle his chosen method of repair, rather having to wade through curt, abrupt, adamant and often condescending replies which do not encourage members to continue with the OOF.
We all enjoy our Omegas (most of the time!), and whatever use we make of them want to keep them running for as long as we can , which this forum will go a long way in assisting members to do so.
Incidentally, I wish a single part of the paragraph 4 in reply #20 was true.....pristine low mileage garage kept show piece Omegas ::). For a minute, I thought there was a a hint of jealousy there, but surely not....
So, I personally apologise Gary again - not for my comments.because I felt it had to be said, but for the fact that it came out during your topic.
And I sincerely hope you solve the problem and get it repaired satisfactorily to enjoy the Omega! :y
That is it from me...finished.


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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Omega 3.2 Elite V6 (2002) Heater Bypass Valve symptons
« Reply #23 on: 17 September 2023, 09:36:28 »

Back on track, and taken from.my original response...
The HBV will almost certainly have been replaced... it's practically a service item.

HBV isn't the only leak source that presents at the back of the block. It could also be the oil cooler or thermostat housing as both drain to the rear.

Does the rate of the leak change with the temperature settings on the climate panel... ie worse on Lo and better on Hi or vice versa  :-\ if yes, then it's almost certainly the HBV. If no, then plenum and intake off and pressure test it... any leak will be self evident.
If it's going to a garage, they should diagnose it for themselves and repair it as they see fit regardless of what anyone here might have to say on the matter.

Incidentally, if you add your location to your profile, there are still various members dotted around who might be able to give a more hands on diagnosis ;)
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biggriffin

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Re: Omega 3.2 Elite V6 (2002) Heater Bypass Valve symptons
« Reply #24 on: 17 September 2023, 13:14:25 »

To the OP,, if you add you location there might be members close by who can offer help..

 And to stir the pot, I don't remove scuttle to change HBV,, and I've done 1 or 2.
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Titanium

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Re: Omega 3.2 Elite V6 (2002) Heater Bypass Valve symptons
« Reply #25 on: 17 September 2023, 16:40:58 »

Hello Everyone,

It seems this post has lead to some lively debate.

I'd like to clear up a few points:

1. My mum has owned the car since 2003 when she bought it from a Vauxhall dealership. It was the dealer principles car.
2. The HBV has never been replaced, unless it was done in the first year of its life. So I therefore assume its original one and has done really well. The whole car has done really well, apart from the passenger door solenoid, blower motor and a broken rear spring, this leak is the only issue it's had in 20 years.
3. I'd like to do it myself as I worry about how careful a garage will be, and what issues this lack of care could create in future.
4. Sadly I don't have the mechanical competency, experience or the correct tools (Torx socket set, torque wrench) to replace the plenme successfully and for this it will have to go to a garage. Sadly we can't afford Vauxhall prices and I don't believe there is any mechanics left at any Vauxhall dealership who has seen, let alone worked on an Omega. So I don't trust them to do a good job either. My local garage will listen if I tell them the Omega aficionados on this forum recommend a way forward. It makes it easier for them.
5. Without wanting to cause a further discussion the cam belt hasn't been replaced. It probably should be done, but Mum drives less than 1000 miles a year so we are holding off on that. Soon she may not be able to drive at all (she's 85) so I want to keep the car going a bit longer for her at minimum cost.
6. It's the original windscreen.
7. The bottom trim on the windscreen has dropped off all the way along (falls off every time I wash the car), apart from last 10mm on the passenger side, so I hope I can (very carefully) remove this and gain access to the scuttle screws without having to place undue force on the screen/frame.
8. After everyones advice and help I think I may be able to remove the scuttle to gain the access necessary.
9. I also think I'd like to remove the wiper mechanism, but does this use regular nuts and bolt or torx bolts? I have torx screwdriver, but not a torx socket set.
10. The leak stops when you turn off the climate control and starts again when you turn it on. I can see its not coming from the heater matrix as its not coming inside the car or out of the AC drain pipes. I can also see the water dripping high-up from the location of the HBV.
11. I'm going to order a HBV from e-bay as they are inexpensive. Would you trust this IS a genuine part?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/305035550568?var=0&mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&campid=5338986375&customid=Cj0KCQjwx5qoBhDyARIsAPbMagAn6FHrn5Zc_HxrChfkSPlFIb8rgBPq81vHuFpT81QxKFTecY59rPcaAu5rEALw_wcB&toolid=20006

I really appreciate everyones comments, and it's great to see how passionate everyone is about their Omegas. Everyone has different views in life. I'm pleased to get everyones opinion and then I can then make my own decision. Everyones personal experience gives their individual view weight which is great. However, in life we can't all agree all the time and there is nothing wrong with that.

Finally my Mum and Dad once bought a manual 1987 Vauxhall Senator 3.0 which was an ex-Leicestershire Constabulary motorway car. It was the best car we could afford at the time. Ex-police cars were cheap(er). It was a great car, but it was far from perfect. A previous front-on collision must have split the battery at some point in its past and the acid rotted the chassis from the inside. But it was great while it lasted. You could pull away from a stop in third! I wouldn't buy another ex-cop car though, it was too rough around the edges.

Thanks once again to everyone for taking the time to respond to my post.

Have a great weekend.

Kind regards,

Gary
« Last Edit: 17 September 2023, 16:58:46 by Titanium »
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Enceladus

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Re: Omega 3.2 Elite V6 (2002) Heater Bypass Valve symptons
« Reply #26 on: 17 September 2023, 17:35:46 »

@Titanium

The Omega versions were all superseded by the Vectra part 95517483. The only difference is that the Vectra version has a curtain shroud around the vacuum port. Otherwise it's identical as to function and fit. Good for any Omega B or B2.

A genuine GM part has been hard to come by for some years. However the ones here seem to be good quality, at least the last one I bought was. Looked to be a genuine part.

The one you linked to in the post above is allegedly part# 90566947 which is without the shroud. This has been superseded. 90566947 is still fine if it's good quality. If it's not then the vacuum spigot might snap off due to the poor quality plastic.
« Last Edit: 17 September 2023, 17:46:49 by Enceladus »
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Omega 3.2 Elite V6 (2002) Heater Bypass Valve symptons
« Reply #27 on: 17 September 2023, 18:10:24 »

Ok, so we're not too worried about getting the scuttle out. Moving on...

Point 10 confirms the issue to be most likely the HBV rather than a split hose or the oil cooler plate. LSC were usually a pretty reliable source of parts, but not bought from them for a while.

Running the cambelt that long is certainly a roll of the dice :o be interesting to see exactly what state it's in...

Where abouts are you/the car?
« Last Edit: 17 September 2023, 18:13:23 by Doctor Gollum »
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countrywoman

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Re: Omega 3.2 Elite V6 (2002) Heater Bypass Valve symptons
« Reply #28 on: 17 September 2023, 19:50:16 »

The ex plod estate I bought for 50 back in 2002 had dropped the cambelt at 90k due to the top roller collapsing.
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