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[STEMO]

I was driving past Sytner Land Rover dealer in Wakefield this morning. Someone has parked a Range Rover outside with proper magnetic signs on it saying
Do not buy a Land Rover from Sytner   UNINSURABLE

Another happy customer.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Quite nickable, I hear.

[TheBoy]

Aren't JLR offering insurance to those that claim they cant get insurance, but on the understanding that they don't leave the cars unlocked, or the keys in them?

[Rangie]

In London it is virtually impossible to insure a Range Rover I'm led to believe, one guy on the forum has been quoted £18,000 to insure his new SVR value of it is approximately £140,000 crazy money.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Aren't JLR offering insurance to those that claim they cant get insurance, but on the understanding that they don't leave the cars unlocked, or the keys in them?

They are but according to Autocar magazine there is a long list of exclusions including.

Anyone over 70
High crime area.

Apparently some owners can't even get a quote regardless.

[STEMO]

They are very expensive, yet they are everywhere. There are loads knocking around Barnsleywakefield, not older ones, either. How the hell so many people can afford to shell out £50,000+ for a car I'll never know.
Mind you there are plenty of Kia/Hyundai EV's too, and they are £40,000+. Wife's car, the grandland we bought in June, was £21,500, and I don't think I'd consider spending any more on a car.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

They are very expensive, yet they are everywhere. There are loads knocking around Barnsleywakefield, not older ones, either. How the hell so many people can afford to shell out £50,000+ for a car I'll never know.
Mind you there are plenty of Kia/Hyundai EV's too, and they are £40,000+. Wife's car, the grandland we bought in June, was £21,500, and I don't think I'd consider spending any more on a car.

Presumably this would be about £40,000 new, at list price.

I wanted a used M240i but (at the time) they were £6-10,000 were expensive than a new one.

The insanity has abated since then, thankfully.

[Andy B]

They are very expensive, yet they are everywhere. There are loads knocking around Barnsleywakefield, not older ones, either. How the hell so many people can afford to shell out £50,000+ for a car I'll never know. .....

 ..... and some! We were at the caravan club site next to this sales place last year - I couldn't believe the prices of these types of car
https://www.alexandersprestige.co.uk/used-cars/?manufacturer=Land+Rover

[STEMO]

They are very expensive, yet they are everywhere. There are loads knocking around Barnsleywakefield, not older ones, either. How the hell so many people can afford to shell out £50,000+ for a car I'll never know. .....

 ..... and some! We were at the caravan club site next to this sales place last year - I couldn't believe the prices of these types of car
https://www.alexandersprestige.co.uk/used-cars/?manufacturer=Land+Rover

Yeah, I know the prices are astronomical when new, Andy. But I was including the 2-3-4 year old ones, loads of them round here.

[Andy B]

They are very expensive, yet they are everywhere. There are loads knocking around Barnsleywakefield, not older ones, either. How the hell so many people can afford to shell out £50,000+ for a car I'll never know. .....

 ..... and some! We were at the caravan club site next to this sales place last year - I couldn't believe the prices of these types of car
https://www.alexandersprestige.co.uk/used-cars/?manufacturer=Land+Rover

Yeah, I know the prices are astronomical when new, Andy. But I was including the 2-3-4 year old ones, loads of them round here.

those cars I linked to were 2/3/4 year old Steve 

[STEMO]

They are very expensive, yet they are everywhere. There are loads knocking around Barnsleywakefield, not older ones, either. How the hell so many people can afford to shell out £50,000+ for a car I'll never know. .....

 ..... and some! We were at the caravan club site next to this sales place last year - I couldn't believe the prices of these types of car
https://www.alexandersprestige.co.uk/used-cars/?manufacturer=Land+Rover

Yeah, I know the prices are astronomical when new, Andy. But I was including the 2-3-4 year old ones, loads of them round here.

those cars I linked to were 2/3/4 year old Steve 

Firkin ridiculous prices for an unreliable shitbox 

[STEMO]

Imagine spending £90K on a second hand Range Rover only for your neighbour to pull up in his £150K one and look down his nose at yours 

[Andy B]

Imagine spending £90K on a second hand Range Rover only for your neighbour to pull up in his £150K one and look down his nose at yours 

It'll never happen ..... it took me long enough to get my head around spending £26k on my ML ...... my first house (in 1988) was the same price ... so £90k would be a none starter! 

[Rangie]

Got the original bill of sale of my 2007 one £59, 837.58 I paid £7,000 for it just over 4 years ago spent & I've probably spent £3,500 on it for servicing & bringing it up to  my required standard almost changed it for an SVR a few months back until I saw the insurance quote (£1400) at present i pay £340 got absolutely no intention of changing it does absolutely everything I expect from it & is superbly comfortable.

[Viral_Jim]

Swmbo Evoque has gone from £580 -> £750 -> £975 (as at today, thinking about renewal in July). That's for a 2015 car that WBAC reckons is worth £8650. She hasn't made any claims or moved in that time either. That's purely cost inflation.

This will probably push us back towards a company EV I think, roll two cars (300c and Evoque) into one. We will probably save money and I won't have to lie under either of them. 

[TheBoy]

Insurance does appear to have massively gone up in the last year, and is continuing to do so.  Bear in mind that a scratch on an EV is often enough to write it off, and the amount of pointless shit fitted to the front of most cars because drivers cant drive, all makes insurance repairs rocket.

I not on the TV ads, LV now state "Insure your car for as little as £299" *.  A year ago, I was paying around £200 for each car.  I renewed back in late last year for £300, and its gone up yet again in those few months.


*I think that has to be the stated price that at least 10% of their customers pay.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Insurance fo the C1 was £145 last year. Renewal came through at £180.
An hour on comparison sites got it down to £133.
It will be interesting to see what the renewal for the Boxster is in a few weeks.

[Viral_Jim]

Insurance does appear to have massively gone up in the last year, and is continuing to do so.  Bear in mind that a scratch on an EV is often enough to write it off, and the amount of pointless shit fitted to the front of most cars because drivers cant drive, all makes insurance repairs rocket.

Agreed, at this point I don't think I would want an EV with my own money, for the reasons you've stated. Letting my employer run one for me though, whole different ball game  .

[Doctor Gollum]

You say that, but if they bear those repair costs, does that impact your salary? That's to say could you be paid more if they provided you with a conventionally powered vehicle rather than an EV.

[Viral_Jim]

No, much less in fact.

The car would be a salary sacrifice lease car. So Tax and NI saving (then a relatively modest BIK added back), this is dependent on the CO2 of the car and is basically punitive if it's not a zero emissions vehicle.

[Doctor Gollum]

What if you didn't have a company car?

[STEMO]

Insurance does appear to have massively gone up in the last year, and is continuing to do so.  Bear in mind that a scratch on an EV is often enough to write it off, and the amount of pointless shit fitted to the front of most cars because drivers cant drive, all makes insurance repairs rocket.

Agreed, at this point I don't think I would want an EV with my own money, for the reasons you've stated. Letting my employer run one for me though, whole different ball game  .

Interesting read here, Jim:

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/electriccars/article-13113365/Half-EV-drivers-petrol-diesel-car-want-longer-journeys.html

[Viral_Jim]

What if you didn't have a company car?

If I add up the costs of 20,000 miles p.a. on Diesel, tax, insurance, servicing, MOT and maintenance I can have a fully maintained EV and power it for around the same money (either more or less depending on the EV). That's before depreciation is taken into account.

Interesting read here, Jim:

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/electriccars/article-13113365/Half-EV-drivers-petrol-diesel-car-want-longer-journeys.html

I think this might be the way we go Ste, the galaxy (or something like it) is a requirement for us as we need 6 proper seats plus space for one (soon to be two) folding mobility scooters. There are basically no ev that meet this requirement. Also, I'd have to think long and hard before taking an EV to Europe from the Midlands! 

Where we win out is both our commutes are fairly large but infrequent (c150 miles round trip and once or twice per week) and we have access to charge at work if needed, add in school runs and a lot of ducking about on her part and we'll hit 20,000 miles pa. And probably never have to use a public charger.

[Doctor Gollum]

Is being able to charge at work treated as a benefit?

It should be as you* could theoretically live at the end of the road, charge the car at work and then plug it into your house battery and gain from the "free" electricity and presumably they don't provide petrol and diesel to employees.

Similarly, if you had to buy your own electricity but had nowhere to charge it, your overall costs would be higher 

You being the royal you rather than personally.

Point being that running any vehicle, of any fuel type, costs someone something at some level and an EV only works as a fully funded company car.

[YZ250]

…….
Interesting read here, Jim:

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/electriccars/article-13113365/Half-EV-drivers-petrol-diesel-car-want-longer-journeys.html

The point that most owners with an EV also have an ICE vehicle is certainly true around here.    One couple have a Tesla and a Mercedes AMG C63 V8, so I’m guessing the C63 carbon footprint is slightly offset by also owning a Tesla. 

[Doctor Gollum]

That will be the other way around if you use the actual environmental cost of the whole vehicle across its whole life.

[Viral_Jim]

Is being able to charge at work treated as a benefit?

It should be as you* could theoretically live at the end of the road, charge the car at work and then plug it into your house battery and gain from the "free" electricity and presumably they don't provide petrol and diesel to employees.

Similarly, if you had to buy your own electricity but had nowhere to charge it, your overall costs would be higher 

You being the royal you rather than personally.

Point being that running any vehicle, of any fuel type, costs someone something at some level and an EV only works as a fully funded company car.

The BIK issue has been collectively settled with HMRC by my employer, so no worries there. But the point is a valid one.

Point being that running any vehicle, of any fuel type, costs someone something at some level and an EV only works as a fully funded company car.

In this case it works financially because HMRC are missing out on a chunk of the vast amount they like to take from my salary every month. Robbing b@stards. 

[TheBoy]

Our scheme too is salary sacrifice, so you end up saving a shit load on NI and income tax.  BIK currently is in the £10-20 pm bracket on the EV's on our scheme (which range from shitbox pointless Citroen whatever with less range than a Sinclair C5, to iPace/big Mercs and Beemers), although BIK is due to steadily increase going forward as the government are missing out on important income to waste on HS2 and other money pits.

The zero tax on EVs is also due to be phased out from next year - our scheme strangely doesn't include VED.

So our scheme covers everything during the length of the lease, except electricity, BIK, and road tax.  Obviously if you abuse it enough to need wear and tear items like tyres too frequently, I think it's likely they might be miffed and charge. There is an excess on accidents, which I think is £250, but increases if you keep crashing.

This puts something like a Dual Motor Tesla around £500, excluding BIK and VED, which is potentially almost worthwhile (ignoring any views on Tesla cars) if I lived somewhere where I wouldn't have to frequently charge away from home - EV charging at public charge points makes petrol and diesel look dirt cheap.  EV isn't yet for me.

[TheBoy]

I was driving past Sytner Land Rover dealer in Wakefield this morning. Someone has parked a Range Rover outside with proper magnetic signs on it saying
Do not buy a Land Rover from Sytner   UNINSURABLE

Another happy customer.

I know the media have a downer on Range Rovers, especially the tree hugging leftie mob like the BBC/Sky/Fail etc, but....

Her old man drives an old Honda Jizz - he is very old, so its his duty to get in everyone's way, especially as he likes reasonably close to that YZ250 fella - and his insurance company has just written to him saying they are no longer insuring Honda Jizz's in the UK due to cat theft.  I don't see the media having a wankathon over that.  But I suppose as its not a JLR product...

He's managed to get insurance elsewhere, but the risk is deemed so high, the insurance is far more than the car is worth.


I know of someone at work who had a (then) newish Toyta Auris* hybrid, who was unable to renew insurance for the same reason. He ended up having to go somewhere else far more expensive.


*I think - the Astra sized shitbox one.

[Doctor Gollum]

Would it kill the insurance company to exclude or limit claims for cat thefts? Or body part theft of Festers and Corsas 

[Viral_Jim]

Would it kill the insurance company to exclude or limit claims for cat thefts? Or body part theft of Festers and Corsas 

Probably not, but given the margins on consumer car insurance are pretty thin, it probably isn't worth it for the hassle

[Raeturbo]

Got the original bill of sale of my 2007 one £59, 837.58 I paid £7,000 for it just over 4 years ago spent & I've probably spent £3,500 on it for servicing & bringing it up to  my required standard almost changed it for an SVR a few months back until I saw the insurance quote (£1400) at present i pay £340 got absolutely no intention of changing it does absolutely everything I expect from it & is superbly comfortable.

Done the same with my XJ8l. Spent a few grand on it to get it right👍👍

[Rangie]

Got the original bill of sale of my 2007 one £59, 837.58 I paid £7,000 for it just over 4 years ago spent & I've probably spent £3,500 on it for servicing & bringing it up to  my required standard almost changed it for an SVR a few months back until I saw the insurance quote (£1400) at present i pay £340 got absolutely no intention of changing it does absolutely everything I expect from it & is superbly comfortable.

Done the same with my XJ8l. Spent a few grand on it to get it right👍👍

.


It makes sense if you intend keeping it, I can't justify paying £30,000+ for a more up to date vehicle when I only cover 5,000 miles a year+ it makes me smile when I drive it..👍

[STEMO]

Got the original bill of sale of my 2007 one £59, 837.58 I paid £7,000 for it just over 4 years ago spent & I've probably spent £3,500 on it for servicing & bringing it up to  my required standard almost changed it for an SVR a few months back until I saw the insurance quote (£1400) at present i pay £340 got absolutely no intention of changing it does absolutely everything I expect from it & is superbly comfortable.

Done the same with my XJ8l. Spent a few grand on it to get it right👍👍

.


It makes sense if you intend keeping it, I can't justify paying £30,000+ for a more up to date vehicle when I only cover 5,000 miles a year+ it makes me smile when I drive it..👍

Smile? I had an Alfa Romeo 166 that made me laugh out loud 

[Viral_Jim]

From what I heard it provided a source of amusement to many other forum goers too. 

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Got the original bill of sale of my 2007 one £59, 837.58 I paid £7,000 for it just over 4 years ago spent & I've probably spent £3,500 on it for servicing & bringing it up to  my required standard almost changed it for an SVR a few months back until I saw the insurance quote (£1400) at present i pay £340 got absolutely no intention of changing it does absolutely everything I expect from it & is superbly comfortable.

Done the same with my XJ8l. Spent a few grand on it to get it right👍👍

.


It makes sense if you intend keeping it, I can't justify paying £30,000+ for a more up to date vehicle when I only cover 5,000 miles a year+ it makes me smile when I drive it..👍

Smile? I had an Alfa Romeo 166 that made me laugh out loud 

A very handsome car.

I've never owned an Alfa but would like to at some point.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

https://youtu.be/xymF-E7KDN4?feature=shared

If it's good enough for old Harry then it's good enough for me.

[Rangie]

Alfa Romeo have made some beautiful looking cars over the years.

[TheBoy]

Alfa Romeo have made some beautiful looking cars over the years.

Indeed, and most of them handle pretty well as well...   ...when they are working

[Rangie]

Alfa Romeo have made some beautiful looking cars over the years.

Indeed, and most of them handle pretty well as well...   ...when they are working

. 

And not turned to dust.

[TheBoy]

Alfa Romeo have made some beautiful looking cars over the years.

Indeed, and most of them handle pretty well as well...   ...when they are working

. 

And not turned to dust.

I believed its all called Italian Character

[Sir Tigger KC]

Alfa Romeo have made some beautiful looking cars over the years.

Indeed, and most of them handle pretty well as well...   ...when they are working

. 

And not turned to dust.

I believed its all called Italian Character

It's why the Italians thrash their cars, because they don't have much time before they dissolve! 

[Rangie]

Back in the seventies my cousin bought a brand new Alfasud looked great, but after 4 years every panel including the roof had bubbled up with rust, his sister had a Fiat Strada which was just as bad.

[STEMO]

From what I heard it provided a source of amusement to many other forum goers too. 

I do like to keep them happy, Jim. At the time, it was the only car on the forum that rusted quicker than an omega 

[TheBoy]

Alfa Romeo have made some beautiful looking cars over the years.

Indeed, and most of them handle pretty well as well...   ...when they are working

. 

And not turned to dust.

I believed its all called Italian Character

It's why the Italians thrash their cars, because they don't have much time before they dissolve! 

Whats my excuse

[TheBoy]

Back in the seventies my cousin bought a brand new Alfasud looked great, but after 4 years every panel including the roof had bubbled up with rust, his sister had a Fiat Strada which was just as bad.

Much like my Astra GTE, only that was 3yrs old when I got shot of it.  No idea where that was made, kinda guessing in Liverpool. By Italians.

[Raeturbo]

Gte in Liverpool😱 bloody lucky to get it out of there🤣

[Sir Tigger KC]

Gte in Liverpool😱 bloody lucky to get it out of there🤣

Yes they were probably up on bricks before they left the factory gates! 

[STEMO]

Back in the seventies my cousin bought a brand new Alfasud looked great, but after 4 years every panel including the roof had bubbled up with rust, his sister had a Fiat Strada which was just as bad.

Much like my Astra GTE, only that was 3yrs old when I got shot of it.  No idea where that was made, kinda guessing in Liverpool. By Italians.

Ellesmere Port is not Liverpool, it's not even Merseyside.

[TheBoy]

Back in the seventies my cousin bought a brand new Alfasud looked great, but after 4 years every panel including the roof had bubbled up with rust, his sister had a Fiat Strada which was just as bad.

Much like my Astra GTE, only that was 3yrs old when I got shot of it.  No idea where that was made, kinda guessing in Liverpool. By Italians.

Ellesmere Port is not Liverpool, it's not even Merseyside.

Near enough.

[Raeturbo]

Not for scousers🤣🤣

[Raeturbo]

Get som scran in🤣🤬🤣

[STEMO]

Get som scran in🤣🤬🤣

Is that supposed to be scouse?   

Never heard anyone say scran in Liverpool   

[Sir Tigger KC]

Get som scran in🤣🤬🤣

Is that supposed to be scouse?   

Never heard anyone say scran in Liverpool   

Give him a break Uncle STEMO, he's a Taff!     

[Raeturbo]

ol slang?
Scran is Scouse slang for food. 'I'm starvin', got any scran? '2 Mar 2017
https://theculturetrip.com › articles
 
    Just saying (as a Taff)👍😁

[TheBoy]

Thank god for the Mersey....   ...to separate the scousers and taffs

[STEMO]

Thank god for the Mersey....   ...to separate the scousers and taffs

Doesn't do a very good job, every pub manager in North Wales is a scouser. And going to the North Wales coast in summer you'd swear you were in Liverpool.

[TheBoy]

Thank god for the Mersey....   ...to separate the scousers and taffs

Doesn't do a very good job, every pub manager in North Wales is a scouser. And going to the North Wales coast in summer you'd swear you were in Liverpool.

As ineffective as the English Channel then...

[Raeturbo]

I love Liverpool been a few times and we’re like brothers in arms👍 although I’m  a South wales type proper Welshman👍

[Sir Tigger KC]

I love Liverpool been a few times and we’re like brothers in arms👍 although I’m  a South wales type proper Welshman👍

Haha that's proper Walian fighting talk isn't it Rae? 

The North/South divide is probably stronger in Wales than it is in England... 

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Alfa Romeo have made some beautiful looking cars over the years.

Indeed, and most of them handle pretty well as well...   ...when they are working

. 

And not turned to dust.

I believed its all called Italian Character

It's why the Italians thrash their cars, because they don't have much time before they dissolve! 

The 2006/7 Mercedes CLS 500 I owned was not hewn from granite like Mercs of old.

There was plenty of scratchy plastics and 'painted chrome plastic. Looked good though and was quite nippy despite the cooking version of the V8 barely making 300 BHP.....306 BHP to be precise.