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Author Topic: Rear Brakes  (Read 12571 times)

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dave the builder

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Re: Rear Brakes
« Reply #75 on: 26 April 2020, 13:33:45 »

From my experience, unless the handbrake shoes have come unbonded, or the linings are showing signs of cracking, I would never replace the shoes. They don't do a lot of work, and if you replace them with new, invariably the handbrake is relatively poor for sometime until the contact area of the new shoes 'beds in' to the contact face of disc as they only come into contact when the handbrake is applied, not like the pads of the primary brakes. This is compounded when new discs and handbrake shoes are fitted at the same time. The linings on the handbrake shoes aren't particularly thick, and sometimes the mistaken perception is that they are worn more than they actually are.
Of course a few trips up the road with the handbrake gently applied can accelerate the bedding in process, but the operation and contact of the shoes to the inboard face of the disc whilst moving doesn't prolong the life of the handbrake linings, and it can lead to bonded linings coming adrift. Rivited linings don't suffer this issue to the same degree.
A bit like the MOT tester yanking the handbrake on, rather than a very gentle application. I have had cars with similar handbrake set ups loose the lining because of this, which can then result in the rear disc locking up when the loose lining jams inside the disc.
So unless they are totally shot at, personally, I wouldn't change the handbrake shoes.

Great post  :)

I rough up brake linings (to remove the glaze) with course emery and wash with brake clean a couple of times
also de-lip the inside of the drum ,clean /de-glaze the wear surface of the drum
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Enceladus

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Re: Rear Brakes
« Reply #76 on: 26 April 2020, 16:49:51 »

How about stainless steel pop rivets 2.4mm seems about the smallest i can see?
Hard to know as it depends on the cleaned-up size of the holes in the crosspieces. You also need a rivet that will clamp up on the thin metal. Pop rivets have a min and max clamping range. You need to clamp down to something like 1.5mm, although you could use a washer on the end of the rivet to increase the min thickness. Looking at an old spring it looks to me that the original rivet flange was Ø4mm so that would indicate a rivet around Ø2.6mm . But you could drill the holes and use something with a slightly bigger diameter. Especially if the holes are corroded. More important that the rivet is a snug fit in the holes.

The original rivets might have been brass bodied (not copper)? So perhaps use brass if available, I imagine stainless steel would also work. Aluminium or copper would rapidly corrode.

Put the rivet in with the head on the disc side so any protruding bit is on the outside of the cross.

Also I'm not claiming to have successfully repaired the springs. I'm just saying how I would seek to do it if there was no other option.
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Andy B

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Re: Rear Brakes
« Reply #77 on: 26 April 2020, 20:25:16 »

6 pages on something I never even saw in 20 odd years of Senator & Omega ownership!  ::) ::) ;D ;D
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gbh

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Re: Rear Brakes
« Reply #78 on: 26 April 2020, 20:28:45 »

The original rivet is brass as I've just drilled it out and the hole is solid enough just the poor quality rivet that gave way.I didn't think aluminium corroded but steel sure does but stronger of course.I felt to knackered today to continue so hopefully tomorrow now i'm going to check the old receipts I have out of curiosity as the shoes fitted are GM couldn't see any markings on the disc.Pads both sides uneven wear which is interesting but as I pop away and leave the car parked up and it was parked up when I bought it the rears to seem seem to seize up so this strip down when finished can only be for the good and experience gained
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dave the builder

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Re: Rear Brakes
« Reply #79 on: 26 April 2020, 20:39:32 »

6 pages on something I never even saw in 20 odd years of Senator & Omega ownership!  ::) ::) ;D ;D
they live inside/behind the rear wheels  :y   ;D
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Rear Brakes
« Reply #80 on: 26 April 2020, 20:41:26 »

6 pages on something I never even saw in 20 odd years of Senator & Omega ownership!  ::) ::) ;D ;D
A side effect of being mechanically competent  ;)
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Andy B

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Re: Rear Brakes
« Reply #81 on: 26 April 2020, 20:44:13 »

6 pages on something I never even saw in 20 odd years of Senator & Omega ownership!  ::) ::) ;D ;D
they live inside/behind the rear wheels  :y   ;D

 ;D ;D But they never wear out even if you actually use the handbrake .... which I rarely did  ;) ;)
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Andy B

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Re: Rear Brakes
« Reply #82 on: 26 April 2020, 20:44:54 »

6 pages on something I never even saw in 20 odd years of Senator & Omega ownership!  ::) ::) ;D ;D
A side effect of being mechanically competent  ;)
That'll be it  :y :y
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dave the builder

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Re: Rear Brakes
« Reply #83 on: 26 April 2020, 20:45:24 »

6 pages on something I never even saw in 20 odd years of Senator & Omega ownership!  ::) ::) ;D ;D
they live inside/behind the rear wheels  :y   ;D

 ;D ;D But they never wear out even if you actually use the handbrake .... which I rarely did  ;) ;)
I use mine every MOT  ::)
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Andy B

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Re: Rear Brakes
« Reply #84 on: 26 April 2020, 20:46:09 »

6 pages on something I never even saw in 20 odd years of Senator & Omega ownership!  ::) ::) ;D ;D
they live inside/behind the rear wheels  :y   ;D

 ;D ;D But they never wear out even if you actually use the handbrake .... which I rarely did  ;) ;)
I use mine every MOT  ::)
;D ;D ;D
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terry paget

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Re: Rear Brakes
« Reply #85 on: 27 April 2020, 09:47:56 »

Handbrake shoes only get wear during the MOT test. At that time they also undergo the biggest annual lever heave, which can pull the wheel end outer cable through the curl of metal on the trailing arm, causing an MOT failure. The cure is to insert a plain washer on the cable end.
I suppose it is a curl, not a solid bracket, to facilitate factory assembly; just one more joy we have buying 10 year old cars.
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Rear Brakes
« Reply #86 on: 27 April 2020, 10:10:43 »

Handbrake shoes only get wear during the MOT test. At that time they also undergo the biggest annual lever heave, which can pull the wheel end outer cable through the curl of metal on the trailing arm, causing an MOT failure. The cure is to insert a plain washer on the cable end.
I suppose it is a curl, not a solid bracket, to facilitate factory assembly; just one more joy we have buying 20 year old cars.
Fixed ;)
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gbh

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Re: Rear Brakes
« Reply #87 on: 28 April 2020, 13:44:53 »

Thank you everyone for your comments I still haven't finished but parts are ordered and put the old shoes back on quite quickly and the old discs went on easy so the Delphi must be wrong in some way.Also had a reply back from my local Vauxhall dealers and they are ordering some springs from Germany so i'll report if successful.Borg&Beck reckon their pins and springs will fit but probably not like the others
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terry paget

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Re: Rear Brakes
« Reply #88 on: 28 April 2020, 14:16:07 »

Thank you everyone for your comments I still haven't finished but parts are ordered and put the old shoes back on quite quickly and the old discs went on easy so the Delphi must be wrong in some way.Also had a reply back from my local Vauxhall dealers and they are ordering some springs from Germany so i'll report if successful.Borg&Beck reckon their pins and springs will fit but probably not like the others
Lucky you. I have abandonned all hope of getting Vx dealer parts during the lockdown.   
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Enceladus

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Re: Rear Brakes
« Reply #89 on: 28 April 2020, 14:34:03 »

The pins are GM #9195055 and the cross springs are #9195056. Are they the parts your dealer has ordered?

The Borg and Beck versions won't fit. Too short. None of the aftermarket parts fit.

Delphi LS1381 should be the correct shoes. So they should fit but you probably need to back off the adjuster so that the disc can go on. Or something else is wrong.

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