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Author Topic: Breakdown  (Read 2406 times)

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gbh

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Breakdown
« on: 03 February 2021, 13:00:09 »

Well the first time in 17 years I broke down and had to be recovered how annoying. Haven't been hardly anywhere in the car for sometime and been having a few niggling problems with interior light and front seat and to finish a breakdown maybe they're all related.Had a decent run in the morning for an eye test and got referred to hospital in the afternoon on the way back from the latter suddenly the battery light came on and lots of other warning lights soon followed and  a decrease in performance I was just hoping to make it home but alas a queue at road works stopped me.Emergency assist recovered me and very good they were by the way. Popped out this morning and checked battery volts 11.14 so now that's on charge as a first step and then we'll try and start it and I guess check volts at the battery to see if it's charging. Any other hints or tips because of course it could be the alternator would the ecu have any bearing with all the rain we've been having?
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Re: Breakdown
« Reply #1 on: 03 February 2021, 13:02:04 »

Is the aux belt attached?

Follow Kevin Woods excellent how to for battery and alternator testing. And report back.
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Nick W

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Re: Breakdown
« Reply #2 on: 03 February 2021, 13:14:04 »

Start it up and check the voltage at both battery and the alternator power connection.


They should be the same and at least 13.5volts(over 14 would be better). If under 13.5 your alternator isn't working correctly, and if different you have dodgy connections in the power leads.


If over 14.5 your alternator is overcharging, but that wouldn't have run the battery down. In the worst case, the battery will explode ;D
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gbh

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Re: Breakdown
« Reply #3 on: 05 February 2021, 15:20:55 »

Just popped out in between the rain as I have a spare omega car thought it good to compare having just fully charged both batteries after checking before hand the battery had dropped to 11.14v before charging and 13v on other car. After charging volts have gone up to 16.19v and on starting up to 17.52 which then drops after a few minutes back to 16.4v and the battery light has come on,at least the car started without problem.Volts on the other car were 16.7 to 18.8 and not dropping back so it seems for some reason the alternator starts charging then stops.How easy difficult to swap over alternator as both 2.6 vehicles although problem one is Elite and the other Cdx.Don't know why the charged voltage is so high is that normal assuming my Fluke meter is still accurate
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Breakdown
« Reply #4 on: 05 February 2021, 15:35:43 »

Sounds like both alternators are goosed if the measurements are correct  :o

Anything much over 14.5V is bad news :-\
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Re: Breakdown
« Reply #5 on: 05 February 2021, 15:40:22 »

Read this...

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90619.0

Understand it and carry it out to the letter using workingvtest equipment.
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gbh

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Re: Breakdown
« Reply #6 on: 05 February 2021, 17:08:00 »

Thanks Doc I'd just found it and hopefully try again tomorrow
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gbh

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Re: Breakdown
« Reply #7 on: 15 February 2021, 20:52:50 »

A big change in the weather today so out to the car I go and after having charged the battery a week ago it's voltage has dropped again whilst it was connected to 11.8v.So onwards as they say and I've removed the alternator and a fair amount of work involved in that but it' off.So my dilemma should I take the one off a spare Omega I have or but a new one I've seen a couple of Lucas ones which aren't Bosch of course LRB255 or LRB319 and would save a lot of effort if they're ok for the job.I couldn't see any markings on my old one to indicate a manufacturer which seems a little odd.Your thoughts as always much appreciated !!!
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cam.in.head

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Re: Breakdown
« Reply #8 on: 16 February 2021, 17:28:41 »

the alternator does draw power if only to power the regulator but its minimal.if your still having the electrical problems relating to the interior light as you recently spoke about i would be tracing the fault there first or at least doing a current draw test at the battery to see if theres anything excessive. ( more than 250ma)
i found that the issue with mine did all sorts of strange things relating to the central locking module when it thought something was still open/ on.
it did flatten a recently new battery overnight too just like yours and has been fine since i traced the blue wire
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Re: Breakdown
« Reply #9 on: 16 February 2021, 18:05:27 »

So you didn't run Kevin's guide all the way through then ???
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gbh

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Re: Breakdown
« Reply #10 on: 16 February 2021, 20:44:40 »

To be honest DG I tried but after charging I was getting strange results with my tester voltage wise aka 16v rising to 17.5v at battery terminals which can't be right.What I did find was that initially the there was some extra volts from the alternator which then dropped off and the battery light again came on in the car and stayed on.Under load the voltage actually increased to 18v so it was untestable either with my equipment or something strange going on with my automatic battery charger.As for testing the volts at the alternator that seems an impossible task as even before getting it off i had a look to see if I could and I couldn't even see the terminals to test.But It's off now so I have to go forward I did check as many terminals as I could for any heat under load but they were all cold.
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Nick W

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Re: Breakdown
« Reply #11 on: 16 February 2021, 22:11:43 »

To be honest DG I tried but after charging I was getting strange results with my tester voltage wise aka 16v rising to 17.5v at battery terminals which can't be right.What I did find was that initially the there was some extra volts from the alternator which then dropped off and the battery light again came on in the car and stayed on.Under load the voltage actually increased to 18v so it was untestable either with my equipment or something strange going on with my automatic battery charger.As for testing the volts at the alternator that seems an impossible task as even before getting it off i had a look to see if I could and I couldn't even see the terminals to test.But It's off now so I have to go forward I did check as many terminals as I could for any heat under load but they were all cold.




17volts is perfectly possible if the alternator regulator has failed. That's why you diagnose charging faults with a meter.


The most I saw was 26volts, together with a horrible smell and loud shouting to turn it off!!


I recovered a couple that had boiled the battery dry, and one that blown the battery casing apart.
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Re: Breakdown
« Reply #12 on: 16 February 2021, 22:46:52 »

To be honest DG I tried but after charging I was getting strange results with my tester voltage wise aka 16v rising to 17.5v at battery terminals which can't be right.What I did find was that initially the there was some extra volts from the alternator which then dropped off and the battery light again came on in the car and stayed on.Under load the voltage actually increased to 18v so it was untestable either with my equipment or something strange going on with my automatic battery charger.As for testing the volts at the alternator that seems an impossible task as even before getting it off i had a look to see if I could and I couldn't even see the terminals to test.But It's off now so I have to go forward I did check as many terminals as I could for any heat under load but they were all cold.




17volts is perfectly possible if the alternator regulator has failed. That's why you diagnose charging faults with a meter.


The most I saw was 26volts, together with a horrible smell and loud shouting to turn it off!!


I recovered a couple that had boiled the battery dry, and one that blown the battery casing apart.
Rotten eggs, it took a long time for the battery to actually cook on my escort, I kept thinking someone had farted for about a month.
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Re: Breakdown
« Reply #13 on: 17 February 2021, 08:37:54 »


The most I saw was 26volts, together with a horrible smell and loud shouting to turn it off!!


Never got to the tester when the Polo (1989 vintage) started overcharging a while ago. As MrsGK pulled into the drive I could smell a familiar smell but couldn't put my finger on it, I was like "not clutch, not brakes..." then got close to the battery and heard it bubbling.

Being an old thing, I whipped the alternator off, and two screws to remove the voltage regulator... 7 at the local electrogenius stockists and it was back in business :y
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Re: Breakdown
« Reply #14 on: 17 February 2021, 09:24:39 »

And you have to be careful as thats a lot of hydrogen gas being made, blew the side off a battery on a 265 Volvo sparking off the positive terminal!! (265 Volvo , showing my age) . It was a customer's car so had to replace it for free.
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Re: Breakdown
« Reply #15 on: 22 February 2021, 20:14:17 »

Alternator swapped over off my other car and it was a lot easier with practice and the good news is the battery light has gone off so just need to give it a run now to test and I'll have another go with my volt meter.Now I need to replace the one i've used now which of course is a Bosch but I've seen a possible replacement but it's a Lucas.It mentioned on the box suitable for Omega up to 99 being LRB255 model and is either new/old stock or reconditioned but seller doesn't know which.THOUGHTS??
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Re: Breakdown
« Reply #16 on: 22 February 2021, 20:17:41 »

you can buy a diode repair kit quite cheap apparently ,
might be worth looking into  :-\
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Re: Breakdown
« Reply #17 on: 22 February 2021, 20:28:32 »

I would start by replacing your volt meter...
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cam.in.head

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Re: Breakdown
« Reply #18 on: 22 February 2021, 20:30:59 »

dont drive too far ( if not at all) until youve had the voltmeter on it .chances are its ok now and was the regulator on the old unit but you need to check.
last time we had a car with a faulty regulator it blew nearly all its bulbs and damaged the radio and that was a non complicated 70's basic car.
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Re: Breakdown
« Reply #19 on: 22 February 2021, 20:31:47 »

I would start by replacing testing your volt meter...
;)
set it to DC , NOT AC for a guess  :P
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Re: Breakdown
« Reply #20 on: 22 February 2021, 20:32:57 »

I would start by replacing your volt meter...

 yes . or at least try it now and see what it reads.
everyone should have a basic multimeter in their kit. theyre not expensive and worth their weight in gold
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Re: Breakdown
« Reply #21 on: 22 February 2021, 21:22:32 »

Believe it or not I was an electrician and I thought my Fluke 11 meter was ok but it certainly doesn't like car batteries or maybe it needs calibrating because the volts were too high which I'm sure wasn't right or a new meter of course.Any thoughts on the Lucas alternator? and I'll check Mark's guide I think I saw somewhere on regulator
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dave the builder

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Re: Breakdown
« Reply #22 on: 22 February 2021, 21:31:11 »

Believe it or not I was an electrician and I thought my Fluke 11 meter was ok but it certainly doesn't like car batteries or maybe it needs calibrating because the volts were too high which I'm sure wasn't right or a new meter of course.Any thoughts on the Lucas alternator? and I'll check Mark's guide I think I saw somewhere on regulator
was the Fluke set to DC volts  :-\
tried testing on a known voltage ,like a torch battery or PP9 from a smoke alarm  ?
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Re: Breakdown
« Reply #23 on: 22 February 2021, 22:19:48 »

highly unlikely the fluke meter was faulty.? ?. what does it read now.
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Re: Breakdown
« Reply #24 on: 22 February 2021, 22:32:19 »

highly unlikely the fluke meter was faulty.? ?. what does it read now.
Replies #3 and 10 would suggest different.  :-\
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Re: Breakdown
« Reply #25 on: 22 February 2021, 22:44:23 »

i agree they were strange readings but he needs to try them now or also with another meter to be sure . otherwise car cannot be used .or i wouldnt anyway.
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Re: Breakdown
« Reply #26 on: 22 February 2021, 22:48:29 »

They were consistent on two cars, which suggests a meter issue before the cars, although the new alternator has clearly fixed something :-\
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cam.in.head

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Re: Breakdown
« Reply #27 on: 22 February 2021, 22:53:10 »

to be honest lets hope it is a faulty meter because those readings if correct wont have done a lot of good to either car !
wel soon see .
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Re: Breakdown
« Reply #28 on: 28 March 2021, 15:23:25 »

Well I'll be ------ I've been driving around not too far without problem and the battery light came on again with a flicker at first.I'll get under and double check the connections first as hopefully that's it.How annoying!!!!!
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Re: Breakdown
« Reply #29 on: 28 March 2021, 19:19:32 »

When my alternator packed up on my 3.2 a good number of years ago, it began with a quick flicker - you see it out of the corner of your eye and you think 'Did I see something flicker on the dash?' It then happened again a few miles later, before coming on constantly a few more miles further on, at which point I realised my long trip home was going to be on the back of a recovery truck.
Definitely your alternator. I've had three fail over the years with similar symptoms.
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Re: Breakdown
« Reply #30 on: 29 March 2021, 11:35:15 »

When I was having battery problems, a while back. I purchased one of these. Used it a few times now on other peoples cars. Even correctly said that one of my friends battery, was on the way out. When he purchased a new one, he had the old one checked and it was on its last legs.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-BT100-DC-12V-Battery-System-Tester-Lead-Acid-ALL-Car-Charging-Test-Analyzer/363324394054?epid=26032716642&hash=item5497d24a46:g:anIAAOSwbW9fO4SI

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Re: Breakdown
« Reply #31 on: 30 March 2021, 20:53:51 »

Just got some fresh batteries and my tester at least has recovered and giving a reading of 12.77 volts at battery terminals but the alternator has had it so repair or replace seems my next option
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Re: Breakdown
« Reply #32 on: 30 March 2021, 20:57:02 »

Have you run Kevin's test through with your working meter?
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Re: Breakdown
« Reply #33 on: 30 March 2021, 21:03:51 »

I went to try that this morning and started with 12.77v at battery which then after starting car went down 12.4v and the I got under car and after much struggling got a similar measurement at the alternator end large cable and nothing at the smaller cable at which point I stopped
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Re: Breakdown
« Reply #34 on: 30 March 2021, 21:06:27 »

You can test the alternator at the battery.

The whole point of running the test through is that it tells you exactly what is going on... Replacing the alternator won't fix a dying battery, for example  ;)
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Re: Breakdown
« Reply #35 on: 30 March 2021, 21:18:40 »

Fully appreciate the test but when I started the car and the volts went down then perhaps in my stupidity I thought the alternator isn't doing anything that why I tested on the alternator terminals just in case faulty cable earth etc.When I put the old alternator back on my other car the battery light came on and has stayed on so I'm pretty confident the alternator has had it.So replacement time as I need to get back to reliable motoring and just a bit unlucky that the other alternator has failed I guess but same age and sat around for a long time probably hasn't helped
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Re: Breakdown
« Reply #36 on: 31 March 2021, 09:07:05 »

Best test for battery is to get someone to crank motor over as you check bat voltage, it should not drop lower than 10 volts and if it does bat is weak. same volt test across bat with headlamps and heated window on, engine 2500 rpm and it should show between 13.8 and 14.5 volts. Simple fault finders .
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Re: Breakdown
« Reply #37 on: 09 April 2021, 14:13:31 »

New recon alternator acquired and fitted and back to normal touch wood
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Re: Breakdown
« Reply #38 on: 09 April 2021, 16:44:10 »

New recon alternator acquired and fitted and back to normal touch wood
Have you tested it to make sure?
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Re: Breakdown
« Reply #39 on: 09 April 2021, 21:13:50 »

i did a small test as battery was 12.7v and with car running went up to 14.4v should I do a full test? or should that be enough and perhaps keep an eye on battery volts as still not using the car much
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Re: Breakdown
« Reply #40 on: 09 April 2021, 23:34:54 »

Doing the FULL test before and after is a pretty effective way of confirming both the original diagnosis AND the repair. So yes ;)
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Re: Breakdown
« Reply #41 on: 12 April 2021, 20:37:07 »

Thank You DG I will do the test at the first opportunity
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