Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 01 July 2016, 12:22:37
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I, along with 16 million others voted to remain. We lost because 17 million others voted to leave.
We live in a democracy and I accept the result. I therefore suggest we trigger article 50 and 'get on with it'
However, things may not be as black and white as the result of the referendum suggests. Despite what we think, the referendum is no more than a giant opinion poll and has no legitimacy in law.
There is also talk that the new PM (let's call her 'Tessy the remainer' ) will require the consent of parliament in order to trigger article 50.
If this is the case, and if more than 600 members of parliament vote with their conscience, the 'leave result' could be overturned because most MP's are of the remain persuasion.
If this happened all out civil war could well be the consequence.
It seems an unlikely scenario but so many unprecedented events have taken place in the last week that I wouldn't be surprised.
We live in interesting times.
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I think if the MPs vote to ignore the vote the government would have to call an elections as they would lose the trust and support of the country I know there is a fixed term parliament and that 66% of MPs have to vote for another election but as you say most want to remain in the EU so would be an alternative solution
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I don't, for one moment, think they'll have the balls to trigger article 50 - they would rather suffer the (very British, short lived) wrath of the public than the wrath of the EUSSR.
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Our MPs have far more important infighting to do within their own parties than actually run a government! Let alone make a competent, professional job of it.
Although any Prime Minister who rides roughshod over the referendum result will not win a General Election.
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The British people are sick of and tired of the political system.
I cant think of one party or politician that I trust and I think the rest of the working class feel the same.
The migrant problem has just brought this problem to the fore imho.
For a long time, the politicians have looked after themselves and there shares portfolio.
They see the working class as nothing more them plebs out there to make the world go around in there favour.
They all work on this basis and fill the general population with spin, political correctness, lies and bullshit and when that doesn't seem to work, the media turn to the guilt and "you should all be ashamed" party line and the "oh look, somebody is starving 4000 miles away. You should all count yourselves lucky you have us" shite.
The sad thing is, we all actually believe it >:(
The majority of people who voted brexit are over 45 years of age.
These people still have a vision of the old days when we stood on our own two feet, governed our own country our way and had some respect in the world.
Most of the people under that age have grown up and lived a working life under c*n*s like Major, Blair, Brown, Cameron, Cleg and now soon to be May.
They have had any patriotic instinct of self government drummed out of them that was passed down from there elders to the point that they are no longer able to see beyond the mind conditioning spin and bullshit spouted by all the political elite.
On one side, you have the brainless dickheads who are hurling abuse at anybody who isn't white skinned and speak English out of shear frustration of not been heard >:(
On the other side, you have gullible people who believe the spin that they cannot exist without our great masters in Europe and if we try then we are all doomed >:(
What is the answer ?
I honestly don't know :(
Even though I didn't agree with a lot of what she stood for, a good start would be that EVERY politician in this country takes a leaf out of that poor lass who was stabbed and shot by that nutter and actually represent and fight for the concerns of the people in there constituency regardless of colour or creed. After all, isn't that what we elect them for ??
Will it happen ?
Will it opps >:(
Nobody in politics gets anywhere unless they jump on the gravy train and kiss the arse of the elite >:(
Do I think Brexit will happen ?
Do I opps >:( >:(
It is not in the interests of the elite so it will be slowly thinned out, a few concessions will be made but at the end of the day, next to sweet opps all will happen >:( >:( >:(
Next, the country will go 1 of 2 ways ................. the older generation will die off and the younger generation will toe the line of the United States Of Europe .............OR they will be a revolution not seen in these isles for a thousand years and blood will flow :(
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I, along with 16 million others voted to remain. We lost because 17 million others voted to leave.
We live in a democracy and I accept the result. I therefore suggest we trigger article 50 and 'get on with it'
However, things may not be as black and white as the result of the referendum suggests. Despite what we think, the referendum is no more than a giant opinion poll and has no legitimacy in law.
There is also talk that the new PM (let's call her 'Tessy the remainer' ) will require the consent of parliament in order to trigger article 50.
If this is the case, and if more than 600 members of parliament vote with their conscience, the 'leave result' could be overturned because most MP's are of the remain persuasion.
If this happened all out civil war could well be the consequence.
It seems an unlikely scenario but so many unprecedented events have taken place in the last week that I wouldn't be surprised.
We live in interesting times.
"There is also talk..............." Not exactly definite then. ::)
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The British people are sick of and tired of the political system.
I cant think of one party or politician that I trust and I think the rest of the working class feel the same.
The migrant problem has just brought this problem to the fore imho.
For a long time, the politicians have looked after themselves and there shares portfolio.
They see the working class as nothing more them plebs out there to make the world go around in there favour.
They all work on this basis and fill the general population with spin, political correctness, lies and bullshit and when that doesn't seem to work, the media turn to the guilt and "you should all be ashamed" party line and the "oh look, somebody is starving 4000 miles away. You should all count yourselves lucky you have us" shite.
The sad thing is, we all actually believe it >:(
The majority of people who voted brexit are over 45 years of age.
These people still have a vision of the old days when we stood on our own two feet, governed our own country our way and had some respect in the world.
Most of the people under that age have grown up and lived a working life under c*n*s like Major, Blair, Brown, Cameron, Cleg and now soon to be May.
They have had any patriotic instinct of self government drummed out of them that was passed down from there elders to the point that they are no longer able to see beyond the mind conditioning spin and bullshit spouted by all the political elite.
On one side, you have the brainless dickheads who are hurling abuse at anybody who isn't white skinned and speak English out of shear frustration of not been heard >:(
On the other side, you have gullible people who believe the spin that they cannot exist without our great masters in Europe and if we try then we are all doomed >:(
What is the answer ?
I honestly don't know :(
Even though I didn't agree with a lot of what she stood for, a good start would be that EVERY politician in this country takes a leaf out of that poor lass who was stabbed and shot by that nutter and actually represent and fight for the concerns of the people in there constituency regardless of colour or creed. After all, isn't that what we elect them for ??
Will it happen ?
Will it opps >:(
Nobody in politics gets anywhere unless they jump on the gravy train and kiss the arse of the elite >:(
Do I think Brexit will happen ?
Do I opps >:( >:(
It is not in the interests of the elite so it will be slowly thinned out, a few concessions will be made but at the end of the day, next to sweet opps all will happen >:( >:( >:(
Next, the country will go 1 of 2 ways ................. the older generation will die off and the younger generation will toe the line of the United States Of Europe .............OR they will be a revolution not seen in these isles for a thousand years and blood will flow :(
You forgot three little letters at the beginning of all that.........IMO. :)
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Sad fact is that in the UK 48% of an 85% turnout is more than enough to secure a majority vote for any party, so promise to sort it and you are likely to get another term in government.
Hence if its going to happen it needs to happen in this sitting.
Lets not kid ourselves, its not going to be easy and Europe will make it as hard as they can without cutting their own throats to much, if they made it easy then the Dutch wont be far behind us......and then who knows.
From a personal perspective its going to be a mare, my research funds from horizon 2020 will go, lets hope they get replaced (wont hold my breath as that will be a good chunk of the savings and may not apply to pan European developments) and its very unlikely that I can just pop a Uk expert into a Polish, French, German, Italian etc factory to assist with builds without a work permit at the drop of a hat.
So hay ho, lets just wait and see.
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The British people are sick of and tired of the political system.
I cant think of one party or politician that I trust and I think the rest of the working class feel the same.
The migrant problem has just brought this problem to the fore imho.
For a long time, the politicians have looked after themselves and there shares portfolio.
They see the working class as nothing more them plebs out there to make the world go around in there favour.
They all work on this basis and fill the general population with spin, political correctness, lies and bullshit and when that doesn't seem to work, the media turn to the guilt and "you should all be ashamed" party line and the "oh look, somebody is starving 4000 miles away. You should all count yourselves lucky you have us" shite.
The sad thing is, we all actually believe it >:(
The majority of people who voted brexit are over 45 years of age.
These people still have a vision of the old days when we stood on our own two feet, governed our own country our way and had some respect in the world.
Most of the people under that age have grown up and lived a working life under c*n*s like Major, Blair, Brown, Cameron, Cleg and now soon to be May.
They have had any patriotic instinct of self government drummed out of them that was passed down from there elders to the point that they are no longer able to see beyond the mind conditioning spin and bullshit spouted by all the political elite.
On one side, you have the brainless dickheads who are hurling abuse at anybody who isn't white skinned and speak English out of shear frustration of not been heard >:(
On the other side, you have gullible people who believe the spin that they cannot exist without our great masters in Europe and if we try then we are all doomed >:(
What is the answer ?
I honestly don't know :(
Even though I didn't agree with a lot of what she stood for, a good start would be that EVERY politician in this country takes a leaf out of that poor lass who was stabbed and shot by that nutter and actually represent and fight for the concerns of the people in there constituency regardless of colour or creed. After all, isn't that what we elect them for ??
Will it happen ?
Will it opps >:(
Nobody in politics gets anywhere unless they jump on the gravy train and kiss the arse of the elite >:(
Do I think Brexit will happen ?
Do I opps >:( >:(
It is not in the interests of the elite so it will be slowly thinned out, a few concessions will be made but at the end of the day, next to sweet opps all will happen >:( >:( >:(
Next, the country will go 1 of 2 ways ................. the older generation will die off and the younger generation will toe the line of the United States Of Europe .............OR they will be a revolution not seen in these isles for a thousand years and blood will flow :(
You forgot three little letters at the beginning of all that.........IMO. :)
Everything is In My Opinion Stemo :-*
I'm not saying i'm right or wrong.
Sometimes i'm spot on but some people on here would never admit to that because they think they are superior ::)
Other times i'm proved to be full of shit ::) ;D ;D but hey ho, its just the opinion of little old me and if i'm honest, I couldn't give a toss what people think :P ;D ;D
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I think anything could happen at the moment! ::)
The EU have piled on the pressure today with their announcement that there will be no trade talks until we have left. So trigger A50, negotiate the exit, actually exit and then we can talk about the trade relationship. :)
Given that trade agreements with the unwieldy, ponderous and bureaucratic EU can take a decade or more, it looks as though we could be trading with the EU under WTO rules for some time. :-\ It may just be tactics, but it may also be in the small print of A50. ;)
Another interesting point is that until we have actually left the EU, Britain is not at liberty to conduct trade talks with any other non-EU countries. ::) Given that we will be likely to be outside the jurisdiction of the ECJ in due course, whether the EU would try to enforce this point is moot, but you never know! Personally I think the UK Government should crack on regardless as talks with the eastern industrial countries like Japan and South Korea will make the Germans sit up! ;) :y
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It should all have been so simple that a four year old could understand.
We vote out......we trigger article 50 quickly.........we make our way in the world.
I personally think that delaying article 50 (possibly until the end of time) is more of a hindrance than a help. It gives the impression that we want to leave but 'not really leave'. :-\
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I, along with 16 million others voted to remain. We lost because 17 million others voted to leave.
We live in a democracy and I accept the result. I therefore suggest we trigger article 50 and 'get on with it'
However, things may not be as black and white as the result of the referendum suggests. Despite what we think, the referendum is no more than a giant opinion poll and has no legitimacy in law.
There is also talk that the new PM (let's call her 'Tessy the remainer' ) will require the consent of parliament in order to trigger article 50.
If this is the case, and if more than 600 members of parliament vote with their conscience, the 'leave result' could be overturned because most MP's are of the remain persuasion.
If this happened all out civil war could well be the consequence.
It seems an unlikely scenario but so many unprecedented events have taken place in the last week that I wouldn't be surprised.
We live in interesting times.
"There is also talk..............." Not exactly definite then. ::)
What is these days. :) For all I know your whippet could be voted in as the next PM. :)
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I, along with 16 million others voted to remain. We lost because 17 million others voted to leave.
We live in a democracy and I accept the result. I therefore suggest we trigger article 50 and 'get on with it'
However, things may not be as black and white as the result of the referendum suggests. Despite what we think, the referendum is no more than a giant opinion poll and has no legitimacy in law.
There is also talk that the new PM (let's call her 'Tessy the remainer' ) will require the consent of parliament in order to trigger article 50.
If this is the case, and if more than 600 members of parliament vote with their conscience, the 'leave result' could be overturned because most MP's are of the remain persuasion.
If this happened all out civil war could well be the consequence.
It seems an unlikely scenario but so many unprecedented events have taken place in the last week that I wouldn't be surprised.
We live in interesting times.
"There is also talk..............." Not exactly definite then. ::)
What is these days. :) For all I know your whippet could be voted in as the next PM. :)
I hope not, I'd miss him terribly. :(
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What is these days. :) For all I know your whippet could be voted in as the next PM. :)
I hope not, I'd miss him terribly. :(
He'd probably do a better job than the muppets we have tho! :y
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What is these days. :) For all I know your whippet could be voted in as the next PM. :)
I hope not, I'd miss him terribly. :(
He'd probably do a better job than the muppets we have tho! :y
STMO's flatulent mutt would need to become an MP first. :)
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Its been voted by the people, so it will happen, absolute best or worst case, which ever way you want to view it, the new PM with the backing of who ever, may call a 2nd Referendum before hitting the Were Out button, highly unlikely, unless a lot more Political crap hits the fan before then.
2nd Referendum, cant see it making much of a difference, more people will get up off there arse and vote than before thats for sure, but the Outs will come will vote in Force, there maybe a few small number that will change there mind due to all the aftermath of crap thats going on, but that cant be reversed now. The Stays will vote as before, some may even change there minds on that one on the basis of its done now let get with it. As for the extra Voters whos knows, but as said really cant see a second chance offer being an option.
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Its been voted by the people, so it will happen, absolute best or worst case, which ever way you want to view it, the new PM with the backing of who ever, may call a 2nd Referendum before hitting the Were Out button, highly unlikely, unless a lot more Political crap hits the fan before then.
2nd Referendum, cant see it making much of a difference, more people will get up off there arse and vote than before thats for sure, but the Outs will come will vote in Force, there maybe a few small number that will change there mind due to all the aftermath of crap thats going on, but that cant be reversed now. The Stays will vote as before, some may even change there minds on that one on the basis of its done now let get with it. As for the extra Voters whos knows, but as said really cant see a second chance offer being an option.
When?
Before or after the return of Halley's comet? ::) ::) :)
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28th July 2061. :)
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Its been voted by the people, so it will happen, absolute best or worst case, which ever way you want to view it, the new PM with the backing of who ever, may call a 2nd Referendum before hitting the Were Out button, highly unlikely, unless a lot more Political crap hits the fan before then.
2nd Referendum, cant see it making much of a difference, more people will get up off there arse and vote than before thats for sure, but the Outs will come will vote in Force, there maybe a few small number that will change there mind due to all the aftermath of crap thats going on, but that cant be reversed now. The Stays will vote as before, some may even change there minds on that one on the basis of its done now let get with it. As for the extra Voters whos knows, but as said really cant see a second chance offer being an option.
When?
Before or after the return of Halley's comet? ::) ::) :)
Well were not going to have that answer till someone new moves into no. 10. :-\
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Gove has said today that if he becomes PM, he will not invoke A50 until next year. ::)
Invoke: Now that's a lovely word that until last week nobody used or probably knew existed! :y
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If article 50 isn't invoked by the end of the year (at the very latest) someone is either trying to pull a fast one, or isn't in a possession of a spine and shouldn't be in the job - imo.
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Gove has said today that if he becomes PM, he will not invoke A50 until next year. ::)
Invoke: Now that's a lovely word that until last week nobody used or probably knew existed! :y
That means no discussion with our european friends until then, then.
We want discussions first......they want article 50 invoked first.
Stalemate. :-\
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If the government go against the will of the people there will be riots,
Also if we as a country wish to trade with lapshoe song, or east Korea maybe even America, what are the EU going to do, arrest the incumbent, invade, or send us a very stern letter, basically we need a strong leader who will say up yours we are doing it our way.
When people realise Europe needs us more than we need them, also other member states are already mumbling about leaving, Europe is crumbling again.
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My prediction. Vested interests have pulled the strings already.EU brake on negotiations.
Set Gove up for a giant fall. Parliament votes as they believe they know what is best. They vote for remain. government gets the chop andTheresa Mayor Osborne step in. The disenfranchised uk voters on minimum wage or thereabouts and no savings object. Popular newspapers latch on and there is a general election. Lib deems make a comeback and gain two more seats. uKIP field a lot of candidates and win maybe twenty seats. labour still headed by Corbyn who still hasn't connected with the disenfranchised voter and loses seats.
May or Osborne then lead us back into Europe BUT on what terms. Adopt the euro, Shengen. One thing is for certain it will not be as favourable as even the crappy deal Cameron came back with.
Worse, the Eu is now unstoppable. No other country dares have a referendum. Our return with our tails between our legs means faster federal EU. Turkey joins in an accelerated manner despite all the ta
K of vetoes,eu army gets off the ground. Britain has to pay for its share even though it has an army. Endogamy offers to be Eu supreme.. New unelected post over the five presidents.
Everything in the garden is rosy. :y
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My prediction. Vested interests have pulled the strings already.EU brake on negotiations.
Set Gove up for a giant fall. Parliament votes as they believe they know what is best. They vote for remain. government gets the chop andTheresa Mayor Osborne step in. The disenfranchised uk voters on minimum wage or thereabouts and no savings object. Popular newspapers latch on and there is a general election. Lib deems make a comeback and gain two more seats. uKIP field a lot of candidates and win maybe twenty seats. labour still headed by Corbyn who still hasn't connected with the disenfranchised voter and loses seats.
May or Osborne then lead us back into Europe BUT on what terms. Adopt the euro, Shengen. One thing is for certain it will not be as favourable as even the crappy deal Cameron came back with.
Worse, the Eu is now unstoppable. No other country dares have a referendum. Our return with our tails between our legs means faster federal EU. Turkey joins in an accelerated manner despite all the ta
K of vetoes,eu army gets off the ground. Britain has to pay for its share even though it has an army. Endogamy offers to be Eu supreme.. New unelected post over the five presidents.
Everything in the garden is rosy. :y
Hiel Merkal. The 1000 year Reich is real. Gawd help us all.
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Blasted predictive text. Should have read Erdogan takes up new post as supremo.
It really does beg the question though under what terms we will re enter having not left?
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Blasted predictive text. Should have read Erdogan takes up new post as supremo.
It really does beg the question though under what terms we will re enter having not left?
We don't have to re-enter if we haven't left. Everything that has been agreed since 1973 (with the possible exception of Cameron's 4 concessions) still stand. All that has happened so far is that we've had a referendum which has no binding effect on HMG. Until/unless we invoke Art50 nothing has changed, and we can use our veto just as much as we could 10 days ago.
I said last week that I didn't think we'd invoke Art50 till Oct-2017. I still think that's the most likely date.
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IMHO
1. There will be no re-entry.
2. We will/should not invoke Article 50 until we have all our ducks in a row, and have completed the discussions with, if not EU governments, then corporate entities within Europe protecting their own vested interests.
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Yes, as a democracy, with libertarian traditions. All Tory candidates, say they will see through Brext. Pro-EU Labour party also say they will support Brexit. Both parties recognize danger to democracy.
Plus EU can't wait to kick us out as free marketeers we are holding back their creation of a 'perfect' utopia, the EUSSR!
Venezuela here they come. :o :o :o
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Yes, as a democracy, with libertarian traditions. All Tory candidates, say they will see through Brext. Pro-EU Labour party also say they will support Brexit. Both parties recognize danger to democracy.
Plus EU can't wait to kick us out as free marketeers we are holding back their creation of a 'perfect' utopia, the EUSSR! Venezuela here they come. :o :o :o
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You can say that again. ;D
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If we want the full fat versio nof Brexit - as advertised - then Andrea Leadsom is the best candidate for PM.
If I were a Tory member, she would definitely get my vote. I don't trust Theresa May as far as I could throw her.
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Blasted predictive text. Should have read Erdogan takes up new post as supremo.
It really does beg the question though under what terms we will re enter having not left?
We don't have to re-enter if we haven't left. Everything that has been agreed since 1973 (with the possible exception of Cameron's 4 concessions) still stand. All that has happened so far is that we've had a referendum which has no binding effect on HMG. Until/unless we invoke Art50 nothing has changed, and we can use our veto just as much as we could 10 days ago.
I said last week that I didn't think we'd invoke Art50 till Oct-2017. I still think that's the most likely date.
Technically you may be right however here are a couple of questions.
1. Has a successor to Lord Hill been appointed?
2. Does the Uk have representation at the table as one of the 28 member states? ( I say not as Cameron abdicated his responsibility.)
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If we want the full fat versio nof Brexit - as advertised - then Andrea Leadsom is the best candidate for PM.
If I were a Tory member, she would definitely get my vote. I don't trust Theresa May as far as I could throw her.
I'm sure she'd get our Lord Opti's vote, and not for her Brexit credentials either! ;D
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On Sky news at the moment. Thousands of people are currently marching through London to protest at the result of the referendum.
What part of democracy do these fickin cretins not understand ? >:(
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If we want the full fat versio nof Brexit - as advertised - then Andrea Leadsom is the best candidate for PM.
If I were a Tory member, she would definitely get my vote. I don't trust Theresa May as far as I could throw her.
I'm sure she'd get our Lord Opti's vote, and not for her Brexit credentials either! ;D
Nah.....this dried up old crone does nothing for me. Way past her 'sell by date'. :)
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On Sky news at the moment. Thousands of people are currently marching through London to protest at the result of the referendum.
What part of democracy do these fickin cretins not understand ? >:(
I always said that a 49/51 or 48/52 result would create more problems than it solved. The more the EU result remains in limbo by our refusal to invoke article 50, the more hope it gives to people who voted to remain.
I voted to remain....we lost. It happens.
Stop pissing about, let's get the Brexit wagon rolling. :y
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If we want the full fat versio nof Brexit - as advertised - then Andrea Leadsom is the best candidate for PM.
If I were a Tory member, she would definitely get my vote. I don't trust Theresa May as far as I could throw her.
The 'full fat' version of Brexit is unlikely unless we agree to free movement of people from the EU.
Something similar to still being in the EU (which we still are) ;)
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By full fat Brexit, I mean no free movement, no rules or regs that haven't been introduced by our Parliament etc. ;)
Not just aht, but aht aht, to quote Micky Flanagan. :D
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By full fat Brexit, I mean no free movement, no rules or regs that haven't been introduced by our Parliament etc. ;)
Not just aht, but aht aht, to quote Micky Flanagan. :D
......and no EU contribution of £350 million a week. ;)