Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Boatboy]

So I got the full ATP kit arrived today from Germany (thanks to the link on here). £71 at paypal exchange rates, ordered Monday. All I need now is the weather.

Last time I did this job on the pfl I fitted polybushes. Might be me, but I think they transmitted more noise into the car from our delightful roads so decided to give ATP a try and keep the original 'bones for refurb if the new car stays long enough.

To the point. I understand the need to have the bushes in 'normal' position before tightening the bolts, thus not locking the centre at one extreme of its travel, however as we know the access is not great with the wheels on the road so been thinking of alternatives.

First option is to make up 4 mini ramps from 3/4'' ply I have knocking around. 6 sheets laminated together should give me 4 platforms 4 1/2'' high and a bit more elbow room.

Second thought is I know the hub to wheel arch dimension, so I could use a jack under the ball joint to raise the arm to that point. Obviously the spring is going to try and do its job and take some weight, potentially destabilising the car on the stands, so I intend to hamper the spring 'slightly' using either ratchet straps or rope purchase.

Currently peeing down so cant (wont) be investigating access etc today, just wondered if anyone has experience with a similar method.

Steve

[Diamond Black Geezer]

Has a bit of your post got chopped off?


Assuming you're asking about wishbone bolts. If it helps you don't need to renew them, ever, unless in cases of extreme corrosion. 

[Boatboy]

Thanks DBG,
Don't know how but I got cut off mid flow on the first attempt. Probably knuckles dragging on the keyboard.

If the old bolts on the new car are fubar I'll try the old bolts off the old car and stick broomstick in the holes for its final trip to the fire brigade practice area.

 

[05omegav6]

Don't jack the wishbones. They aren't designed to be loaded that way

Ramp or a high kerb...

[Diamond Black Geezer]

If I were you don't go mucking about with ratchet straps and jacks and the like, just to get the wheel 'at rest'. The method you touched on, ie: driving up on some thick old boards/lumps fo wood etc will do you fine. If you have ramps, then use the ramps, of course, I'm guessing you don't?

It's very cramped under there when the full weight of the car is on, I know what you mean.  Issue I've found is not being able to actually get much movement on the torque wrench before hitting the ground, you get a 'click' and that's it. Hence up on ramps/similar. Also, bit of lateral thinking, depending where you live/traffic, what about putting the side of the car you're working on up on the kerb? Gets you maybe 6 inch extra clearance.

[Diamond Black Geezer]

Had that all typed out and got called away from my desk!!

[Boatboy]

Spoilsports, we all know i'll end up doing it the oof way but I like to let the mind ramble over alternatives. And I like playing with string.

One things for sure - I wont be using a kerb as that implies rolling in the gutter and there are limits.

I have some vintage ramps. My soon to be bride gave them as a 21st present having seen the collection of junk my old Dolly got propped up on. They've never been the same since I reversed a carlton off the back of them, trapping myself in the car half in the garage in the process.

I was thinking more 'lifting' than 'jacking' under the ball joint but take the point. Maybe a angle iron half cup under the wheel boss wound up on some threaded rod would be more appropriate.

But seriously, I thought I read that ATP parts had their name on them which implied a level of confidence in the product. Cant find it on these beauties.

Steve

[Diamond Black Geezer]

Spoilsports, we all know i'll end up doing it the oof way but I like to let the mind ramble over alternatives. And I like playing with string.

One things for sure - I wont be using a kerb as that implies rolling in the gutter and there are limits.

I have some vintage ramps. My soon to be bride gave them as a 21st present having seen the collection of junk my old Dolly got propped up on. They've never been the same since I reversed a Omega off the back of them, trapping myself in the car half in the garage in the process.

I was thinking more 'lifting' than 'jacking' under the ball joint but take the point. Maybe a angle iron half cup under the wheel boss wound up on some threaded rod would be more appropriate.

But seriously, I thought I read that ATP parts had their name on them which implied a level of confidence in the product. Cant find it on these beauties.

Steve

Been there, corrected for how I did it. Luckily no damage to car when I did it.

Also, I have ATP track rods and droplinks fitted and found the quality to be excellent, that was 6k + ago, no issues so far. But, as you say, don't think there were any ATP stamps on them. Had I not got a spare pair of wishbones already for Poly-ing I'd have bought ATP wishbones with confidence, too. 

[Entwood]

Method I've always used - now fitting tin hat and awaiting incoming.... -  with the bolts in but loose, fit wheel and lower to the ground, stick large toolboxes in footwells to simulate load, then "bounce" the corner a few times,  .. lean under with a standard ratchet handle (8-10") and do the bolts up as tight as I can one handed given the awkwardness of their position.  Then jack the car back up, fit axle stands, remove wheel, apply torque wrench and tighten to correct value.

The bolts have NEVER moved whist re-lifting the car, and the torque wrench has ALWAYS registered an increase - which proves that one-handed I'm a weakling ... 

 

[05omegav6]

That's as good an approach as any If only because the weight of the car is on the suspension as intended...

[Diamond Black Geezer]

Also, in case the OP hasn't done an Omega wishbone before, I'd definitely suggest popping off one end of the track rod end, for ease of fitment. Everyone has a slightly different method of doing wishbones, but in an ideal world a mate helping for the final 'hoik' in place helps massively. (mechanic OOFers on her will no doubt be able to pop off and on within about 5 mins flat, of course)

Of course the use of Polys negates the issue of tightening only when loaded. Polys can be tightened with the car still in the air. 

[Boatboy]

I have done the job before but with Poly's. This time I'm changing drop links and track rods as well so encumbrances will be at a minimum.

Don't remember the final 'hoik' being that hard last time, but I was 5 years younger and the rear bush was probably not offering as much resistance as a new one will. I have enough neighbours seem to think their sole purpose in life is walking past saying 'why don't you buy a new one' every time I have the tools out, there's one or two I can trust to apply a bit of leverage.

I'm liking the idea of the two stage tightening from brother Entwood. Bush gets clamped in the right position then Torque gets done accurately with sufficient access.

Looks like Monday's the day as apparently I have to do things that 'normal' people do at the weekend.

Steve

[Diamond Black Geezer]

I have done the job before but with Poly's. This time I'm changing drop links and track rods as well so encumbrances will be at a minimum.

Don't remember the final 'hoik' being that hard last time, but I was 5 years younger and the rear bush was probably not offering as much resistance as a new one will. I have enough neighbours seem to think their sole purpose in life is walking past saying 'why don't you buy a new one' every time I have the tools out, there's one or two I can trust to apply a bit of leverage.

I'm liking the idea of the two stage tightening from brother Entwood. Bush gets clamped in the right position then Torque gets done accurately with sufficient access.

Looks like Monday's the day as apparently I have to do things that 'normal' people do at the weekend.

Steve

Where's the 'bash head against the wall' smiley?  Tell me about it, I hate that attitude you get from people. Presumably they also say the 'you missed a bit' after you've painting a wall/swept a floor/driveway.  You go out to put 0.25litres of oil in and you get 'oooh, is the car broken again?' "NO! It's called maintenance! Just because the norm is to consider the annual Mot the same as a service, and let you car fall into any level of disrepair from one to the next doesn't mean I want to do that!" Annnnnd breathe.... 

Sometimes they drop in quite nicely, sometimes percussive assistance is required. I always make sure the area is greased for max help. Problem I used to have (before undoing the track rod) was trying to get the McPherson strut to pull/push to line up with the balljoint on the wishbone. Lots easier with that off. Alternative it to locate balljoint and one bolt, then pull/push to locate the second bolt. But, as I say, everyone has a method they find easiest.

I do like the method Mr Entwood suggests, actually, get's a +1 from me 

[Marks DTM Calib]

Method I've always used - now fitting tin hat and awaiting incoming.... -  with the bolts in but loose, fit wheel and lower to the ground, stick large toolboxes in footwells to simulate load, then "bounce" the corner a few times,  .. lean under with a standard ratchet handle (8-10") and do the bolts up as tight as I can one handed given the awkwardness of their position.  Then jack the car back up, fit axle stands, remove wheel, apply torque wrench and tighten to correct value.

The bolts have NEVER moved whist re-lifting the car, and the torque wrench has ALWAYS registered an increase - which proves that one-handed I'm a weakling ... 

 

Exactly what I do

[baggers]

"Last time I did this job on the pfl I fitted polybushes. Might be me, but I think they transmitted more noise into the car from our delightful roads so decided to give ATP a try and keep the original 'bones for refurb if the new car stays long enough."

Poly-bushes do transmit more noise, even standard after-market arms are more noisy and less absorbing.