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[VXL V6]

Just wondered, has anyone LPG'd a 2.6?

I was wondering what the running costs would be for manual and auto variants. 

[Entwood]

I would expect them to be very similar to the 3.2 TBH .. the petrol costs are not that disimilar.

I can give info on 3.2 auto costs on LPG if you want them .

[feeutfo]

About the same I would have thought. So may as well go for a 3.2.

Kit cost cirtainly is the same.

[TheBoy]

MArks DTM reckoned he used to get high 30s MPG from his 2.5 manual on petrol, but he had a good commute for MPG. 2.6 would be slightly less, as the DBW V6s are nowhere near as economical.

Lose 10-20% in MPG for LPG...

The general concensus is you save about a third on fuel costs.

For town driving, the manual should help dramatically over autos.

[VXL V6]

MArks DTM reckoned he used to get high 30s MPG from his 2.5 manual on petrol, but he had a good commute for MPG. 2.6 would be slightly less, as the DBW V6s are nowhere near as economical.

Lose 10-20% in MPG for LPG...

The general concensus is you save about a third on fuel costs.

For town driving, the manual should help dramatically over autos.

This is what i'm thinking, my daily commute to the office is 30 Miles each way, Mainly motorway and I work an early shift so miss most of the traffic, however when I go on site visits (which can be anywhere in the country) there's a mixture of driving environments which hit an auto heavily.

If I was to forget repairing the DTi and instead buy a 2.6 (got to be an Elite, I can't get comfortable in CD/CDX seats!) and LPG it, would I then be looking at equivilent cost per mile to the DTi? The DTi averaged at 40MPG with my usual driving style.

[TheBoy]

I've previously posted my costs (probably about time I posted a new one) for both my 3.0 auto and 3.2 auto, so should be easy to work it out on pence per mile.

But sadly, no figures for a 2.6 manual

[Entwood]

Over 49536 miles (yes I'm a sad git and have kept a record) and just under 5 years, the average saving per mile is running at 10.29 p/mile (estimated cost on petrol 27.03 p/mile actual cost on LPG 16.74 p/mile) a saving of 38.06%

Now, if we take petrol at 132.9 /litre that is 599.28 a gallon, at 16.74 p/mile that means against petrol I get the equivalent of 36.54 mpg compared to diesel at 142.9 /litre it is the equivalent of 38.75 mpg.

In those figures are a large number of miles towing a 1600kg caravan.... without that high use part I would expect the figures to be even better, but I can only quote what I have achieved.

HTH 

[TheBoy]

Pikey boy, how come I can't get that sort of PPM from my 3.2, and I don't tow a kebab establishment 

[Entwood]

Pikey boy, how come I can't get that sort of PPM from my 3.2, and I don't tow a kebab establishment 

For the same reason you only get 4000 miles from a set of tyres  

The pedal under the right foot is linear not binary ...

[feeutfo]

Entwood still has his 64bit ecu, as opposed to a 1bit switch.

I tried it today actually. Very civilised.

[VXL V6]

Cheers Mr E.

Looks to me (with some basic maths in my head!) that an LPG'd 2.6 with a manual box would be a very close match to the DTi in overal fuel cost.

[TheBoy]

Entwood still has his 64bit ecu, as opposed to a 1bit switch.

I tried it today actually. Very civilised.

Some of the most complexes pieces of technology work with binary

[Entwood]

Cheers Mr E.

Looks to me (with some basic maths in my head!) that an LPG'd 2.6 with a manual box would be a very close match to the DTi in overal fuel cost.

I'll hazard a guess that it would be better .. as the LPG figures would be even better on a manual .. if I can get the equivalent of 38 mpg in an auto with a load of towing   45 mpg in a manual solo should be easily doable.

[TheBoy]

Pikey boy, how come I can't get that sort of PPM from my 3.2, and I don't tow a kebab establishment 

For the same reason you only get 4000 miles from a set of tyres  

The pedal under the right foot is linear not binary ...

I'll have you know that I got 11k out of the last set of Sport Maxx TTs on the rear, and about 22k off the fronts (though admittedly after 22k they looked like they belonged on Noddy's Clown Car)

[TheBoy]

Obviously you lose a fair chunk of boot, which may or may not be a problem.

Additionally, is there a cheap LPG station near you - Entwood uses Countrywide, which doesn't make it as far as you I believe...  ...but may be close enough depending where you work.

[VXL V6]

Cheers Mr E.

Looks to me (with some basic maths in my head!) that an LPG'd 2.6 with a manual box would be a very close match to the DTi in overal fuel cost.

I'll hazard a guess that it would be better .. as the LPG figures would be even better on a manual .. if I can get the equivalent of 38 mpg in an auto with a load of towing   45 mpg in a manual solo should be easily doable.

Indeed 

However, this would probably be diminished if you throw in the maintenance costs (Glow plugs every four or five years compared to 6 plugs every 40K, chain v cambelt etc etc.....), that said, it's still a very similar overall running cost.

[Entwood]

Obviously you lose a fair chunk of boot, which may or may not be a problem.

Additionally, is there a cheap LPG station near you - Entwood uses Countrywide, which doesn't make it as far as you I believe...  ...but may be close enough depending where you work.

He's even better placed .. Morrisons at Small Heath ... even cheaper than Countrywide last time I visited my sister at Meriden  ...

[TheBoy]

Obviously you lose a fair chunk of boot, which may or may not be a problem.

Additionally, is there a cheap LPG station near you - Entwood uses Countrywide, which doesn't make it as far as you I believe...  ...but may be close enough depending where you work.

He's even better placed .. Morrisons at Small Heath ... even cheaper than Countrywide last time I visited my sister at Meriden  ...

If its the wrong way, its a bit of a drag to regularly get in there IIRC

[VXL V6]

Obviously you lose a fair chunk of boot, which may or may not be a problem.

Additionally, is there a cheap LPG station near you - Entwood uses Countrywide, which doesn't make it as far as you I believe...  ...but may be close enough depending where you work.

There's a couple of independant retailers (well a farm with a big tank in his driveway and a ramshackle place where a chap in a modified wheelchair - think 2 stroke - sells LPG, bottled gas, coal, wood and fresh eggs  ) and of course the usual big name places on the motorway.

[VXL V6]

Obviously you lose a fair chunk of boot, which may or may not be a problem.

Additionally, is there a cheap LPG station near you - Entwood uses Countrywide, which doesn't make it as far as you I believe...  ...but may be close enough depending where you work.

He's even better placed .. Morrisons at Small Heath ... even cheaper than Countrywide last time I visited my sister at Meriden  ...

Sorry, nowhere near Small Heath, Meriden may be, but not anywhere i'd pass regularly.

Edit: Think more Warwickshire / Worcestershire 

[Entwood]

Obviously you lose a fair chunk of boot, which may or may not be a problem.

Additionally, is there a cheap LPG station near you - Entwood uses Countrywide, which doesn't make it as far as you I believe...  ...but may be close enough depending where you work.

He's even better placed .. Morrisons at Small Heath ... even cheaper than Countrywide last time I visited my sister at Meriden  ...

Sorry, nowhere near Small Heath, Meriden may be, but not anywhere i'd pass regularly.

Edit: Think more Warwickshire / Worcestershire 

OK  .. I just stuck "solihull" in the search engine

have a play ..

http://www.drivelpg.co.uk/i-have-lpg/find-a-filling-station/

[TheBoy]

Obviously you lose a fair chunk of boot, which may or may not be a problem.

Additionally, is there a cheap LPG station near you - Entwood uses Countrywide, which doesn't make it as far as you I believe...  ...but may be close enough depending where you work.

He's even better placed .. Morrisons at Small Heath ... even cheaper than Countrywide last time I visited my sister at Meriden  ...

Sorry, nowhere near Small Heath, Meriden may be, but not anywhere i'd pass regularly.

Edit: Think more Warwickshire / Worcestershire 

Countrywide may work - google countrywide lpg to see their lpg outlets.

Nearest to me is in the land of the inbreds (Banbury), so inconvenient.

[VXL V6]

Looks like there's a couple in Worcester where I work  , One of them is only a few metres from the cricket ground so is probably under water now as that's the next place to flood after the racecourse... and the racecourse is now flooded again for the second time in about a month!

[TheBoy]

Countrywide aren't always the cheapest (I'm sure Entwood can post current price), but usually reasonably priced.

Currently paying 74.9p at the local BP.

[Entwood]

Countrywide aren't always the cheapest (I'm sure Entwood can post current price), but usually reasonably priced.

Currently paying 74.9p at the local BP.

I'm presently paying 73.68, last time I hit Morrisons it was 70.20 but that was just before Christmas.

Slightly off topic TB .. do you notice a MAJOR difference in "economy" if you do a short fill instead of a full tank ?? 

I usually do around 45 litres minimum and often more, but for family reasons have recently done several 20 litre "top ups" just to ensure a full tank at all times and the economy figures plummeted .. so much so I was checking for leaks etc etc .. but did a 58 litre fill and the figures are back where I expect them.

Not had this before so was initially concerned .. now just puzzled as to why, I know we always lose a bit of gas on disconnect but in liquid form it would only be a spoonful surely ??

Just wondering if you've noticed similar or not ??

[TheBoy]

Slightly off topic TB .. do you notice a MAJOR difference in "economy" if you do a short fill instead of a full tank ?? 

Yes, dramatic. I have posted about it several times.

I always run the thing virtually dry before filling.

[TheBoy]

I always put 60+ litres in (80l tank, fills to 66l (or 78l at that pikey BP in Oxford, theiving scum))

[Entwood]

Slightly off topic TB .. do you notice a MAJOR difference in "economy" if you do a short fill instead of a full tank ?? 

Yes, dramatic. I have posted about it several times.

I always run the thing virtually dry before filling.

Thanks for that .. not just me then ..

[Lazydocker]

Slightly off topic TB .. do you notice a MAJOR difference in "economy" if you do a short fill instead of a full tank ?? 

Yes, dramatic. I have posted about it several times.

I always run the thing virtually dry before filling.

Thanks for that .. not just me then ..

Nope, I've noticed it too

I can't get anywhere near Entwood's figures either, unless I let SWMBO drive

[aaronjb]

Funny this thread should come up .. I was doing some calculations tonight on this very subject.

I reckon I do ~1000 miles a month now at an average of 22mpg on petrol @ 133.9p/litre (what it was at Shell this afternoon).
I worked on the basis of ~17mpg (losing ~20%) @ 76.9p/litre (what it was at Shell .. I think).
And I worked on the basis of 35mpg out of a 2.2DTi @ 139.9p/litre (again, Shell this afternoon)

That worked out at 45.45gal @ 608p/gal for petrol, 58.82gal @ 349.6p/gal for LPG and 23.57gal @ 635.99p/gal for diesel giving figures of:

£276.69/mo for petrol
£205.64/mo for LPG
£181.71/mo for diesel


By my figures that made diesel a clear winner in terms of costs, considering it's probably cheaper to buy a new diesel Omega than LPG one (at worst it's equal cost, I reckon)..

Unless my figures are miles off..

[Kevin Wood]

22 mpg is heavy footed or serious urban, though. Would a dti really manage 35 MPG in the circumstances? Not sure.

I find 20-22 MPG on LPG is about the norm whereby I was getting about 26-27 on petrol. I obviously have an easier, or more relaxed, commute than you do.

[Lazydocker]

I've said it before and I'll say it again... The only fair comparison for LPG running costs vs petrol/diesel is the cost per mile.

Aaron, I'd say your figures for petrol vs LPG are slightly off as it saves, as the ones with anal spreadsheets will confirm, about a third or an average of 10p per mile Plus you get the petrol/v6 driving experience instead of burning smelly oil

Also need to take into account that with a diesel you need to keep to the 3k oil changes quite strictly whereas with LPG you can easily go 5k between changes (or more if you aren't as fussy) and still take out oil that is golden instead of pitch black

Obviously there is (potentially) a slightly higher cost involved with LPG car though if you have to convert it.

My previous omega did 55k (in my ownership) on LPG and was sold for enough to pay for the kit on this one, which has now done about 24k on LPG. That's a total saving of about £7900 in fuel costs for the total outlay of 2 LPG kits, roughly £1550. That basically means I have saved enough on the fuel costs to be able to say (in the best "man maths") that the cars have been completely free to buy and own

Ok, doesn't really work quite like that But they certainly don't owe me anything much

[feeutfo]

I think Vxlv6's problem with Dti is the cost of repair. Did I read fuel pump issues somewhere? And a £700 bill, just for the part....? Or similar?   

[feeutfo]

Means nothing to me. But.... 

Well it may not be as bad as everyone thinks when the pump 'fails' on a DTi, basically the pump is two units, a mechanical pump and a control board (EDC). After a bit of reasearch it appears that 75% of pump failures are actually a faulty EDU - usually a failure of the board. These can be repaired by specialist companies (It's not really a DIY job because of the design of the unit).

The car gets delivered back tomorrow so I hope to have a few mins to see about the possibilty of removing the EDC with the pump in situ.

I'll post up on the forum if anyones interested, though I know DTi's aren't that common.

[feeutfo]

Pump and faulty edc.
http://youtu.be/BUXHxXUdB3U

Pump testing.
http://youtu.be/qHayMpuX53s
So that's why diesels makes such a horrendous racket.

[aaronjb]

22 mpg is heavy footed or serious urban, though. Would a dti really manage 35 MPG in the circumstances? Not sure.

I find 20-22 MPG on LPG is about the norm whereby I was getting about 26-27 on petrol. I obviously have an easier, or more relaxed, commute than you do.

I used to get about ~23mpg on my commute until I started going a different way to drop Amy off in West Byfleet in the morning - it only adds about 7 miles to the distance but unfortunately dumps us into awful traffic.. now 22mpg is a 'good' week, a bad week is more like 18mpg.

Either that or I have an underlying problem again (I did check the multirams again!  ).. or I'm heavier footed than I thought 

[VXL V6]

I think Vxlv6's problem with Dti is the cost of repair. Did I read fuel pump issues somewhere? And a £700 bill, just for the part....? Or similar?   

Yes, to explain, There are three options for repair:-

1) Complete new pump with EDC (control unit), dealer price approx £1700 + coding (and obviously the job of locking the chain, removing the old pump and fitting the new etc)

2) Refurbished pump, EDC coding, same removal and fitting work as above, approx £1000

3) Removal of EDC, diagnostic, repair, refit (some dismantling of the fuel feeds and inlet to get access required), approx £400 - £500

While the last option is obviously the most preferable (it's highly likely to be the EDC, although the pumps do suffer with wear if run using cheap supermarket fuel) I have to consider the fact that this car has done over 170K and the thought enters my mind, 'What happens if the turbo or something else expensive dies on it in a few months time?

So looking at the problem from a slightly different angle, suppose I purchase a 2.6 Elite with driver involvement pack to hopefully gain a few more MPG to start with, I've then got the DTi which has the same paint colour as my 3.2 so I can potentially can use body parts if required. The NCDC, CID, Polly bushes, front wheels with good tyres, 10K front shocks and springs, B4 rear shocks, rear blind and a wealth of other 'Elite' parts could then be used on the replacement 2.6, the Diesel parts that are still in good order could be used as spares for Mrs VXL's DTi estate, therefore my DTi helps keep three Omega's on the road. The Bose and other parts can live on Ebay and eventually the shell can go to be weighed in.

I already have a drilled V6 inlet manifold ready and waiting and I believe virtually everything else required for the LPG install can be bought for approx £700.

I've half convinced myself that this is the way to go... I just need to find the right car.....

[henryd]

Just noticed this on egay,low miles

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2001-VAUXHALL-OMEGA-CDX-V6-SILVER-Very-Low-Mileage-65050-/190789975997?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item2c6bf7ffbd

[VXL V6]

Really want to go for an Elite to be honest. Just very hard to find a manual 2.6. 

Will be taking a closer look at the DTi tomorrow and making a few decisions over the next week. 

[Lazydocker]

Really want to go for an Elite to be honest. Just very hard to find a manual 2.6. 

Will be taking a closer look at the DTi tomorrow and making a few decisions over the next week. 

If you want it looked at I'm sure Twiglet (he's nearer) or I could oblige

[joshwyatt]

It took me a long time to buy my 2003 2.6 Elite manual as you know Andy.
I bought it for £2,200 on the 14/07/2010, fitted the CID (Well Mr Tb did) and the shale leather interior, thanks to RobG, covered 23,000 miles in it and sold it for £1,600 about 6 months ago. Daz did the cambelt etc, it had x3 tyres and x2 full services with x5 oil changes. Ownership cost was next to nothing.
In late 2011, and a good 6 months of '12 I used the Elite every day, I regularly did a round trip of 160 miles a day. This was from Oxford, along the A420, 25ish miles of M4 then 15ish miles of mixed to around Bath. I averaged between 26-34mpg.
A police 3.2 manual, will do slighlty better MPG...but I appreciate those wouldn't fit the bill for you.

[VXL V6]

It took me a long time to buy my 2003 2.6 Elite manual as you know Andy.
I bought it for £2,200 on the 14/07/2010, fitted the CID (Well Mr Tb did) and the shale leather interior, thanks to RobG, covered 23,000 miles in it and sold it for £1,600 about 6 months ago. Daz did the cambelt etc, it had x3 tyres and x2 full services with x5 oil changes. Ownership cost was next to nothing.
In late 2011, and a good 6 months of '12 I used the Elite every day, I regularly did a round trip of 160 miles a day. This was from Oxford, along the A420, 25ish miles of M4 then 15ish miles of mixed to around Bath. I averaged between 26-34mpg.
A police 3.2 manual, will do slighlty better MPG...but I appreciate those wouldn't fit the bill for you.

Can't you tell the current owner of your 2.6 that there is a product recall and you'll have to have the car back?!