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[Varche]

These seem to be touted as the answer to getting sporting events and spectators, flights, holidays going again. All the things we took for granted 12 months ago.

I think it was Qantas that started it rolling by saying they wouldn't fly anyone who couldn't prove they had been vaccinated. You could show your certificate, QR code on your mobile or whatever.

Certainly the UK has shown interest and Ursula said the EU would define the requirements for the Common Pass by the end of January ( been and gone and no definition). The Common Pass would "allow travel and access to open spaces". On the face of it, in everyones interests. Gets the economy going again, holidays, travel and so on. I won't post links as there is plenty of stuff available on google.

My personal view is it is a giant ponzi scheme in as much as it is just a tool to help in the drive to get as many folk vaccinated as possible to reduce health problems. ( if you get it and lower chance of giving it to others). The acid test , in my view , is when someone challenges the legality of it. For example having made bookings and turn up for expensive foreign travel and one or more of the party are refused on a technicality. Or they couldn't have the vaccine because of a medical condition or they might have been an anti vaxer . Or you want to go to a country that doesn't accept the AZ jab for over 65's or you didn't have your second jab within 12 weeks. Same if someone is refused a job or not considered because of their Common Pass status. My gut feeling is that these wouldn't stand up in a court of law. It will be something to do with the Geneva Convention of Human Rights. But that is all some months maybe a year down the line.

What do you think?

[Sir Tigger KC]

All the politicians are dancing around the nettle and don't want to grasp it. 

Vaccine certificate/passports, whatever you want to call them are inevitable and are nothing new.  There are countries in Sub-Saharan Africa, Asia and Latin America who have required a Yellow Fever certificate as a condition of entry for donkeys years, and I can't see much difference too be honest. 

Although I suppose the great British public who see their annual trip to Shagaluf as a right rather than a privilege might be a bit miffed when turned away at Gatwick because they haven't bothered to bring or upload their proof of vaccination....      I see riots rather than lawsuits! 

[STEMO]

A vaccine passport would be discriminatory, according a government spokesmanperson this morning.

[Rangie]

During the week they were saying that it could be an invasion on our human rights having to provide proof of vaccination, wouldn't mind in the slightest myself  even though I have no intention on boarding a plane anytime soon. But the way the UK is at present nobody seems capable of making a decision & sticking to it so be interesting to see how it all works out.

[Nick W]

Does anyone else remember all the fuss made three years ago about demanding strict control of our borders and who is allowed past them?


Now we have an actual need for such things - a Covid test and proof of vaccine are simple requirements- and the same people are now backing away from it in a particularly craven way.


Is requiring a vaccine passport discriminatory against those who haven't had one? Yes, it is. But it's fixed; have the vaccine and the discrimination vanishes.

[Varche]

Well the Nuremburg Code and the UNSECO Universal Declaration on Bioethics and Human Rights think differently. See this from the Council of Europe published a few days ago:

https://pace.coe.int/en/files/29004/html

Resolution 2361

7.3 with respect to ensuring high vaccine uptake:
7.3.1 ensure that citizens are informed that the vaccination is NOT mandatory and that no one is politically, socially, or otherwise pressured to get themselves vaccinated, if they do not wish to do so themselves;
7.3.2 ensure that no one is discriminated against for not having been vaccinated, due to possible health risks or not wanting to be vaccinated;

 7.3.2 is a bit of a problem.

Don't forget that the Common Pass is also about access to open spaces so we aren't just talking international travel.


I take the point about yellow fever jabs having been a requirement for some time ( and a very sensible precaution) but there is a huge difference between travelling to a dodgy country and going to a football match.

[Sir Tigger KC]

I think that the only reason that someone would refuse a vaccine and the certificate is that they don't believe Covid is real. 

[dave the builder]

I think that the only reason that someone would refuse a vaccine and the certificate is that they don't believe Covid is real. 

please show the information about the long term (several years) effects of :
A: exposure to covid 19 and it's up coming mutations
B: repeated vaccination against covid 19
 
I can't seem to find it to make an INFORMED CHOICE 

I've had the yellow fever ,hep B, measles, mumps etc etc vaccines

[ronnyd]

I had my jab last Sunday, SWMBO was supposed to have hers the same time, (+5min). at a local surgery.  For whatever reason she decided not to go through with it and cancelled it. The next day (Mon), she got a phone call from our local hospital. "Hello Mrs ronny, this is appointments dept of the vascular dept. Have you had your Covid jab yet? Wife replies no and woman at other end puts the phone down. . Does this mean that if she didn't get the jab, will the West Suffolk hospital refuse to treat her? . She has had her jab now, on Sat morning.

[Doctor Gollum]

I think that the only reason that someone would refuse a vaccine and the certificate is that they don't believe Covid is real. 

please show the information about the long term (several years) effects of :
A: exposure to covid 19 and it's up coming mutations
B: repeated vaccination against covid 19
 
I can't seem to find it to make an INFORMED CHOICE 

I've had the yellow fever ,hep B, measles, mumps etc etc vaccines

And which of thise did you actually have a choice in?

[dave the builder]

I think that the only reason that someone would refuse a vaccine and the certificate is that they don't believe Covid is real. 

please show the information about the long term (several years) effects of :
A: exposure to covid 19 and it's up coming mutations
B: repeated vaccination against covid 19
 
I can't seem to find it to make an INFORMED CHOICE 

I've had the yellow fever ,hep B, measles, mumps etc etc vaccines

And which of these did you actually have a choice in?

all the ones as an adult 
yellow fever, hep B ,Tetanus , and some others
I'd need to find my "Vaccination passport" type thingy to list everything 

[Drewomega]

There are countries in Sub-Saharan Africa, Asia and Latin America who have required a Yellow Fever certificate as a condition of entry for donkeys years, and I can't see much difference too be honest. 


As most folks know on here, I worked worldwide but mostly Africa. If I did not have the appropriate vaccine jab cert for whatever the country demanded then I would be denied access. End of!. Hopefully it will be the same with covid. As posted by dtb I have a 'vaccination passport' which fits inside your passport.

 As an aside, I get my batflue jab on Friday.     

[Doctor Gollum]

Gesundheit 

[Drewomega]

Bless you! 

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

I think that the only reason that someone would refuse a vaccine and the certificate is that they don't believe Covid is real. 

No your wrong. A Gentleman of colour explained it all on SKY news earlier. Its because the communities dont trust the NHS , because of its awful treatment of persons of colour in the past, including he recent past.
The sad thing is, Im not joking. I think he even had some official sounding title, although I couldnt be arsed to take enough notice, to find out what it was.
So there you have it. The NHS is now racist along with almost everything else in the UK. Despite the fact that it employs hundreds of thousands of non white, non British people.