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[Peti]

Dear friends

Sorry ,I need URGENT help ,that's why I decided to start a new topic, even if I found some "vacuum pipe"-like topics...

1994, V6, X25XE, with aircon

Now, I appreciate these diagrams :

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90513.0
and
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90499.0

...they look really helpful....still, I'm confused.

Can you tell me WHERE the "red" vacuum pipe should go to ?





All solenoid and switchover valve inputs/outputs are OCCUPIED !



Originally, it went to the switchover valve that can be seen in front of the double intake ducts on the above photo.....but I think it was just a mistake of a former owner.

[albitz]

Vacuum reservoir on the bagpipes ? Not sure without looking tbh,and its pretty dark here now.

[Peti]

Any Omega-owner in Miami ?
 (where it's not so dark yet)   

[Michael2.6]

red pipe goes onto the tee peace on the control valve on the bag pipes

[Peti]

Yes, thanks....

In the meantime I realised that if there's less holes than tubes ,then either :
 
 - the guys at the factory forgot to drill one  :O)

or

 - one T-piece is missing

[Peti]

I'm still lost in the forest....

Those diagrams above do not mention Idle Control valve at all.

Please help me to locate the long red one :

This is how my vac pipes are connected at the moment :

1. A cut off valve sends air to its solenoid :


2. The solenoid forwards it to the Idle Control Valve :




3. At the back the other cut off valve sends air to its solenoid ....which forwards it to a T-piece.....which forwards it to the injectors AND to a long vac pipe that goes to somewhere at the front :



Now, WHERE is that "somewhere" ?

[Michael2.6]

you have a tee piece missing that goes on top of the control valve on the bag pipes
the other end of the tee piece goes to the vac box on the bottom of the bag pipes

[fiend61]

you have a tee piece missing that goes on top of the control valve on the bag pipes
the other end of the tee piece goes to the vac box on the bottom of the bag pipes

yup 

[Peti]

Well, you guys sound helpful....but it seems I have NO front vac box at all.
That's why I'm still confused.

Can you please show me the front on any photo/diagram/etc... ?

Do you mean ? :



...or what ?
Please correct my drawing if necessary, or attach yours....

[TheBoy]

Early cars didn't have reservoir on bagpipes.

Peti - you need to provide a vac feed to both multirams from the remaining reservoir near pollen filter. This reservoir should itself be fed from the brake servo pipe

[Peti]

So, I have only ONE vac reservoir, attached to pollen filter.

Should the vac system be built up like this ? :

[Johnny English]

Hey Peti,

if you have a wee bit time more I'll make a pic of my iron to you. Can do it after 19.00 , attach and send tomorrow. If it's urgent we can speak by phone as well. Send me PM if you are interested!

native : az enyém kilencvenötös vé hatos, szerintem ugyanolyan a tiéd is. Estig dolgozom, utána tudok képet csinálni és holnap a melóból tudnám küldeni.

[Andy H]

My recollection is that the fuel pressure regulator has a pipe that clips onto the cable tray and connects to a spigot on the throttle body. 

[Andy H]

Peti

I think this is the diagram you should be following but it doesn't show the fuel regulator.

The fuel regulator has a pipe that goes to the throttle body and doesn't connect to the other vacuum pipes.

[Peti]

Hey Peti,

if you have a wee bit time more I'll make a pic of my iron to you. Can do it after 19.00 , attach and send tomorrow. If it's urgent we can speak by phone as well. Send me PM if you are interested!

native : az enyém kilencvenötös vé hatos, szerintem ugyanolyan a tiéd is. Estig dolgozom, utána tudok képet csinálni és holnap a melóból tudnám küldeni.

O.K., kivárom (sorry guys for speaking UFO-like languages  )

[Peti]

Peti

I think this is the diagram you should be following but it doesn't show the fuel regulator.

The fuel regulator has a pipe that goes to the throttle body and doesn't connect to the other vacuum pipes.

.............diagram above...........

Well
 - it does not show the fuel reg
 - nor the idle control
 - I don't find any vac connection hole on my throttle
....so that's why I'm asking that much 

[Andy H]

No vacuum pipes go to the idle control valve

I cannot find a picture of an early throttle body but in this picture the fuel regulator connects to the small pipe in the centre of the photo.

On some cars the fuel regulator pipe is clipped on the cable tray (making a total of 3 pipes). On the cars I have owned it has been clipped to the fuel rail under the plenum.

[Andy H]

Oops, I cannot edit my previous post 

I don't have an early car to go and check but I do recall that a small hose was connected to the larger rubber pipe that the idle control valve connects to. I think this is probably the pipe that should run round to connect to the fuel regulator.

[Andy H]

Don't know if this picture helps at all.

There is a pipe that connects just in front of the IAC which then dives down and goes back to the fuel regulator.

[Johnny English]

Peti

I think this is the diagram you should be following but it doesn't show the fuel regulator.

The fuel regulator has a pipe that goes to the throttle body and doesn't connect to the other vacuum pipes.

Heya Mate,

this the correct diagram is. I made some pic at evening (low quality) I guess they don't need to be attached though. Your questioned vac hoses go to SAI valve and Multiram. Good luck!

[Johnny English]

All solenoid and switchover valve inputs/outputs are OCCUPIED !



Originally, it went to the switchover valve that can be seen in front of the double intake ducts on the above photo.....but I think it was just a mistake of a former owner.

Longer vac pipe comes to here almost but down and other side of Mram .

[Johnny English]

If there is empty vac pipe connection point anywhere close it/them screwing into a bolt (as I've seen at mine) to avoid false sucking .

[Peti]

O.K. guys, it seems there are too many versions of these engines, so let's begin at the beginning :

MINE looks like this :
(see text highlighted in green)





So I have 2(!!!) hoses with no place to plug !

I guess I' need 2 more T-pieces.....but I'm still confused about which one goes to where and why and how and when  

It is also possible that they were originally connected to EACH OTHER, i.e.   the one that is cut at the back      might as well be the beginning of   the one that goes from the T-piece to the front.

Still, the question remains :
 - WHERE to plug the front end of it ?
...and ....
 - Is the T-piece at the fuel press reg placed where it should be ?

[Kevin Wood]

The problem you appear to have, is that the fuel pressure regulator reference port has been connected to the vacuum system. This is incorrect. The fuel pressure regulator needs to connect to the orange line on your diagram from the intake hose that feeds the idle control valve.

The first "No hole to connect!" by the rear cut off valve then connects to the T piece attached to the valve.

The other "No hole to connect!" round the front (blue line from that same T piece) connects to the other cutoff valve at the front multiram which will have been vacated by correctly connecting the fuel pressure regulator.

[Peti]

THAT'S THE ANSWER I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR !

Now it all seems just logical  :

 - Brake servo feeds rear vac box....that forwards air to heater matrix and two solenoids : rear and front....so that both of them can operate their own cut off valves (using two T-pieces)

 - Fuel press reg is operated by the "orange" tube
(originally, mine went to the FRONT.....but it should've gone BACKWARDS!!!).

All of them are at home now !

Thanks Kevin.....well....just go to a pub and drink an expensive bottle of beer...you deserve it ! 

[Kevin Wood]

THAT'S THE ANSWER I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR !

Now it all seems just logical  :

 - Brake servo feeds rear vac box....that forwards air to heater matrix and two solenoids : rear and front....so that both of them can operate their own cut off valves (using two T-pieces)

Yep, that's it.

- Fuel press reg is operated by the "orange" tube
(originally, mine went to the FRONT.....but it should've gone BACKWARDS!!!).

Yes. The fuel pressure regulator just uses atmospheric pressure as its' reference so it's not connected to a vacuum supply as it is in some cars. The only reason it's connected at all is probably to avoid fuel leaking everywhere if the diaphragm in the valve ever punctured.
In fact, having it connected to the vacuum supply will have considerably reduced your fuel pressure, so you might find it runs better now.

Thanks Kevin.....well....just go to a pub and drink an expensive bottle of beer...you deserve it ! 

Oh, erm.. Well, it's not like me to indulge ... er.. OK. If you're going to twist my arm, I will.

[Peti]

I'd advise moderators to DELETE questions/answers/diagrams/photos which show an incorrect layout and keep this last one only, which shows the final solution.
Other people may find this topic helpful, but they may be lost between these WRONG diagrams and my silly questions 

[Eyal2002]

Hi All,
New to posting in the forum, but... been reading for years...
Turns out all the posted vacuum diagrams are not accurate for 2.6L (No IAS, EGR...), and as I struggled with my 2002 2.6L Omega I decided to try and share an easy to read and CORRECT diagram for the vacuum lines:



Will be happy to share more of the experience fixing my vacuum setup.

Eyal

[Doctor Gollum]

The double T on the non return valve is the wrong one for the 2.6/3.2.

It should only have a single T. 

[Eyal2002]

Oh? can you please elaborate? can you please offer a drawing?
My latest mechanic did not know how to even approach the multiram and the vacuum, not to mention both solenoid were broken. I read hundreds of posts in OOF only to realize all are describing a non 2.6 engine. The only drawing I found with two vacuum reservoirs did not fully match my engine (IAS, FPR...), so I deduced and then sat on photoshop, then fixed the solenoid, bought new vacuum lines, and searched many pet shops tull I found descent check valves for the reservoirs.
I will be more than happy to see what I drew or did wrong, also im PM.
BTW I have an issue with the front multiram. You see, unlike the Vauxhall College info, the rear multiram does NOT open at idle/low, it only opens above 4100 RPM on my engine, and that works fine (superb change in perfomance    ), but the front will NOT actuate no matter RPM, WOT etc., so other than the layout input I also ask of you to please consider these facts and give me your opinion:
1. When given 12V directly, the front solenoid works.
2. Front solenoid moves the multiram (no vacuum issue).
3. Solenoid has power and 1.6 ohms resistance to same positive lead in the rear solenoid plug (so no loss of power).
4. When using the front plug's power, and adding ground from the battery, the solenoid works.
5. Solenoid has same 40 Ohms as rear solenoid.
6. As for possible bad ground in solenoid cable, and to cover plug "not sitting well", when I disconnent the plug I get the "wrench" icon in the dash immediately, so the negative wire is connected well.
7. Only "advanced" non-tech2 computer I borrowed has the option to activate multirams but it doesn't, even on the rear multiram no response with that device, and sorry no tech2 access for me here.
8. I have a parts Omega, same model and all, but I am afraid to swap ECU for this multiram test.
So, why would the ECU refuse to command the front multiram no matter what RPM I am on?

Thank you

[Doctor Gollum]

Multirams not working because they aren't connected correctly.

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90499.0

None of my 2.6/3.2 cars had a double T at the non return valve by the brake master. The second line was only on 2.5/3.0 and went to the Secondary Air Injection valve, which the 2.6/3.2 don't have.

Multiram guides here...

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90513.0

Also, is the ecu currently fitted from the Vectra?

[Eyal2002]

.

[Eyal2002]

Drawing of brake servo from web, will fix and upload again, to show ONE opening (mine is taped there, I assumed pin broke).

Essentialy my drawing is no different setup then links you provided, I removed the SAI but it is the same as the drawing for two reservoir setup.

Multiram WORKS in rear at over 4100 RPM, front only works when given power direclty so my drawing must be right.

I truly wish I could answer the vectra engine question. All I know an engine was purchased and installed, with only changes made to fit it right as it was horizontal on the vectra (but same Y26SE). No knowledge if ECU was replaced, but I doubt previoys mechanic would recode keys doors etc., I can take pictures or copy numbers from the ECU if it helps.

But I am wondering, doesn't V6 Vectras have multirams? and if not, why does the rear multiram works fine?

As per last page of your second link, the drawing suggests both multiram plugs share same 12V and I verified they do, and only thing I didn't check is that the negative wire for the front solenoid indeed goes to the correct ECU wire. Then again if not, how come I get the light in the dash when I unplug the front solenoid? beats me.

[Doctor Gollum]

Also sent as PM, but for visibility...

Brake/Primary vacuum is as follows:
1. Compression fitting on the plenum.
2. Non return valve with a single secondary inlet.
3. Brake booster.

The secondary inlet has a 90°rubber connection. This splits at a T on the bulkhead. One draws the vacuum from the reservoir by the pollen filter... This provides ALL the vacuum for the climate control system. The other line from the T runs to the reservoir on the intake tract. This provides ALL the vacuum for the multirams. The second connection on the front reservoir runs to the multiram solenoids via another T and provides the multiram solenoids with a permanent vacuum. The ecu then switches the solenoids as required, using the vacuum to actuate the valves.

The only other vacuum line on the engine connects the fuel pressure regulator to the throttle body.

[Doctor Gollum]

The Vectra has a very different plenum design for packaging reasons, and might only have a single valve.

If you're using the Vectra ECU, then the multirams will never work correctly.

Likewise, if the sensors and wiring harness on the engine are not the Omega ones, then all bets are off as the pin outs on the ECU plugs may not be the same and the signals may not be correct.

[Eyal2002]

The double T on the non return valve is the wrong one for the 2.6/3.2.

It should only have a single T. 

Re-posting with corrected drawing:
Hi All,
New to posting in the forum, but... been reading for years...
Turns out all the posted vacuum diagrams are not accurate for 2.6L (No IAS, EGR...), and as I struggled with my 2002 2.6L Omega I decided to try and share an easy to read and CORRECT diagram for the vacuum lines:



Will be happy to share more of the experience fixing my vacuum setup.

Eyal

[Doctor Gollum]

That's it

Just make sure that the multiram reservoir is correctly connected. Although the pipes are the same diameter, the rubber connections are not. It's easy to cross plumb the front multiram if you're not careful 

[Eyal2002]

The Vectra has a very different plenum design for packaging reasons, and might only have a single valve.

If you're using the Vectra ECU, then the multirams will never work correctly.

Likewise, if the sensors and wiring harness on the engine are not the Omega ones, then all bets are off as the pin outs on the ECU plugs may not be the same and the signals may not be correct.

Gotcha. Will check the "negative" wire on my front multiram, and even send a new wire. Based on the drawing below my (front MR) positive plug connects with the working positive on the Rear MR plug, and it seems I need to verify/route the negative wire for the front MR plug to Pin#8 on the ECU (?). How do I know this drawing is correct for the 2.6L? anyway I need daylight for that...

[Andy H]

The Vectra has a very different plenum design for packaging reasons, and might only have a single valve.

If you're using the Vectra ECU, then the multirams will never work correctly.

Likewise, if the sensors and wiring harness on the engine are not the Omega ones, then all bets are off as the pin outs on the ECU plugs may not be the same and the signals may not be correct.

Gotcha. Will check the "negative" wire on my front multiram, and even send a new wire. Based on the drawing below my (front MR) positive plug connects with the working positive on the Rear MR plug, and it seems I need to verify/route the negative wire for the front MR plug to Pin#8 on the ECU (?). How do I know this drawing is correct for the 2.6L? anyway I need daylight for that...

Is it possible to confuse the front multiram plug with something else? I have this nagging feeling that it is just possible to swap the front multiram plug and the air intake temperature sensor plug if you try hard enough (the later engines dropped the separate air intake temperature sensor)

[Doctor Gollum]

Oil pressure sensor at a pinch, but then you would have a red oil light on

At the back of the engine, it's possible to get the purge valve and the ecu temp sensor swapped over. This is a problem because the purge valve is battery voltage andd the temp sensor is ecu 5v. This creates a significant hot start issue as it totally floods it... Basically 6 injectors on full chat because it thinks you're in Siberia. In January. Symptoms are same as a dead crank sensor

[Eyal2002]

Going to disconnect battery and try tracing the negative wire see which ECU pin feeds it. Since last post I found online a clearer electrical diagram so the ECU pin I am looking for is #8 and not 6. Positive front MR is definitely 12V and connected to same source as the working rear MR, so the negative wire is the only suspect.
Question: looking at my spare ECU, there are 2 multiple sockets for a loom, both numbered starting with "1", which socket feeds the MR loom?

also, Doctor Gollum, I did some reading on the Vectra V6, it does have 2 MRs though very different plenum indeed. Will take photos of my engine and ECU today and post.
I recall being told that they installed Vectra Y26SE mint condition engine for me (original Omega block MELTED due to sudden drop of ALL coolant at 75 mph...), and they transfered top and bottom bits from original engine (oil pan, plenum etc). Only issue then was hard to get oil fill cap as the Vectra engine had is to the "right" side which is now "deep" side but I live fine with that. It is possible the engine installers recreated the front MR plug using the wrong wire source. Going to check now.

[Doctor Gollum]

If you have a complete spare 2.6 omega then fit the wiring harness and sensors from that car. If the current ecu is also a vectra one, then use the ecu, transponder ring and chip from the donor car as well. 

At least then you know that your car is electrically correct. 

[Eyal2002]

Good point, will do wire tracing on parts Omega first.
Attaching here an engine photo (front MR solenoid moved up temporarily for troubledhooting) and the ECU - could you tell if this is Omega ECU or Vectra? thanks.

[Doctor Gollum]

What is the vacuum line to the intake above the maf? Also, I know it is lhd, but where are the vacuum lines for the multirams? They should be clipped to the cable tray as there's nowhere else for them to go...

I would politely suggest that whoever fitted that engine didn't do a particularly good job 

A quick scootch does suggest that that's the Omega ECU... However the botched in IAT sensor (the 2.6/3.2 Omega uses a combined MAF/IAT) suggests that there are other things going on.

I would strip it all off and fit the donor parts from the other Omega.

[Eyal2002]

Weather update from Israel: It is super hot.
Some findings and photos. The posted wire diagram is same as Hanes page 298 which is for engine X25XE/X30XE - My 2.6L Y26SE wires do not match as seen in image below.
I really need the wiring diagram for Y26SE to continue troubleshoot this. At least the questionable negative front MR wire is intact all the way to the ECU (both front/back positives connected and fine):



So either I do not know how to count, I shouldn't rely on the numbers in the ECU sockets, or I really need someone to post the correct wire diagrams.

[Doctor Gollum]

Look closer. The terminals are numbered at each end of the row.

If it's the Vectra harness, then it's not correct for the Omega ECU.

[Eyal2002]

Look closer. The terminals are numbered at each end of the row.

If it's the Vectra harness, then it's not correct for the Omega ECU.

My counting was based on these raised numbers at the beginning and end of rows. I got Pins 4 and 45.
Thing is, other things will not work, specifically rear multi-ram (that does work). I need 2002 Omega wire diagram, none available in OOF or Hanes afaik.
As for the ECU, I put both versions on the current one in the car, and the one from the parts Omega. They look the same.

[Eyal2002]

What is the vacuum line to the intake above the maf? Also, I know it is lhd, but where are the vacuum lines for the multirams? They should be clipped to the cable tray as there's nowhere else for them to go...

I would politely suggest that whoever fitted that engine didn't do a particularly good job 

A quick scootch does suggest that that's the Omega ECU... However the botched in IAT sensor (the 2.6/3.2 Omega uses a combined MAF/IAT) suggests that there are other things going on.

I would strip it all off and fit the donor parts from the other Omega.

Well don't run into conclusions, set is for troubleshooting (VAC, solenoid plug etc), and when all works it will be back in place. Anyway hope this drawing will clarify things:

[Doctor Gollum]

They are the same.

The difference/issues will be with the wiring harness if they used the Vectra engine harness.

The pin rows are all numbered on the socket. If you zoom in your picture you can see them. Also what you are interpreting as pin #45 is in fact pin #53.

The plugs are numbered in a similar fashion where the wires enter them.

From memory, with the ECU correctly installed, the top plug is the engine loom only. The bottom plug is the Body harness.

[Doctor Gollum]

Who on earth  fitted that like that?

[Eyal2002]

They are the same.

The difference/issues will be with the wiring harness if they used the Vectra engine harness.

The pin rows are all numbered on the socket. If you zoom in your picture you can see them. Also what you are interpreting as pin #45 is in fact pin #53.

The plugs are numbered in a similar fashion where the wires enter them.

From memory, with the ECU correctly installed, the top plug is the engine loom only. The bottom plug is the Body harness.

Did you remember to "mirror" the socket image?
Knowing the old mechanic, he prob disconnected all plugs from old engine and just planted new one instead, same loom, the whole inlet "bagpipe" is original.
Again, lots of things wouldn't work if a Vectra loom was used. But who knows maybe a wire was cut and reconnected to something else (but then you will get the wrench dash icon).
Bottom line the entire car works - except from Multiram - and no one can blame solenoid/vacuum/setup as it works when ground is given to the from solenoid.
I am more than ready to research wires, just need the proper wire diagram please.

[Doctor Gollum]

I did. The opposite end is pin #64

[Eyal2002]

I did. The opposite end is pin #64

When you are right you are right. My bad, low on coffee. Pin#53.

What are the chances you or other OOF admins can get the 2002 V6 wire diagram?

I doubt Opel/GM has anything here in Israel, I might have the last Omega here. But if you have connections with UK Vauxhall...
Cheers

[Eyal2002]

Got it!!! (sleep is overrated ) I got the original PDF but it's in Russian, PM me if you want it.
And it confirms pins 4 and 53. So back to square one, why the ECU will not command the front multi-ram to open.
Anyways here are the drawings for OOF reference:

[Eyal2002]

Good news - Both Multi rams work!!!
In fact, since the rebuild of the vacuum system everything worked, but...  As per the "Vauxhall College" document, there are expected RPM points in which you expect the Multi ram to engage, however these points are not correct for the 2.6L and thus misleading.
Starting with the rear MR, it works only above 4100 RPM, and ALWAYS turns on at that RPM when testing (a person steps on the gas while I flash a light at the actuator). This constant response confused me as the front MR NEVER WORKED no matter what RPM WOT etc., even though vacuum, solenoid, wiring, all verified OK separately.
So tonight I plugged a voltmeter in parallel to the front MR solenoid, put it under the wipers facing driver seat - and went for a ride in only 1st and 2nd gear:



I wish I had a better way to document with a picture, but here's what happened: Every time I accelerated HARD the front MR got full voltage, and it was seen in as low as 2800 RPM. Under very slow or no acceleration it was off. And of course, the biggest confusion - never works in parking. So the only easy way I came up with is to test it under driving load, and clearly the results are way different than the "Vauxhall College" explanation of Multi ram, and I can only assume the 2.6L/3.2L has totally different Multi ram operating schema.

Does anyone has actual ECU "rules" for the Multi ram in the 2.6L?

I thought my car is fantastic because the rear MR got fixed and working - turns out they both were. Hard to believe a 20 years old car accelerates and drives so smoothly. Thanks for all who helped!

[Doctor Gollum]

Glad it's sorted