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[Viral_Jim]

Morning all,

I'm starting to think about changing the Zafira for a similar bus that's a bit newer. Zafira Tourer is an obvious candidate and a quick look about suggests three engine options. There's a N/A 1.8 which looks like a continuation of the 1.6/1.8 units in my current car, 2.0 diesel and a 1.4T petrol, neither of which I know anything about. Obviously the 2.0 will deliver better economy, but at the cost of reliability?

I'm drawn instinctively to the 1.8 as its very much the devil I know, but how are the other two options, does anyone have any experience? Also, how are the auto boxes on these? I don't have any objection to either two or three pedals, but I'd prefer to avoid an unreliable option if possible.

Thanks as always 

[STEMO]

Morning all,

I'm starting to think about changing the Zafira for a similar bus that's a bit newer. Zafira Tourer is an obvious candidate and a quick look about suggests three engine options. There's a N/A 1.8 which looks like a continuation of the 1.6/1.8 units in my current car, 2.0 diesel and a 1.4T petrol, neither of which I know anything about. Obviously the 2.0 will deliver better economy, but at the cost of reliability?

I'm drawn instinctively to the 1.8 as its very much the devil I know, but how are the other two options, does anyone have any experience? Also, how are the auto boxes on these? I don't have any objection to either two or three pedals, but I'd prefer to avoid an unreliable option if possible.

Thanks as always 

2.0 diesel is virtually unbreakable. I had it in my astra. Traded it at around 120,000 miles and it was still pulling like a train. You are, of course, taking a chance on the dpf having been treated right at a higher mileage. I used to let mine finish a regen before I'd stop the engine, plenty dont.

[ronnyd]

Morning all,

I'm starting to think about changing the Zafira for a similar bus that's a bit newer. Zafira Tourer is an obvious candidate and a quick look about suggests three engine options. There's a N/A 1.8 which looks like a continuation of the 1.6/1.8 units in my current car, 2.0 diesel and a 1.4T petrol, neither of which I know anything about. Obviously the 2.0 will deliver better economy, but at the cost of reliability?

I'm drawn instinctively to the 1.8 as its very much the devil I know, but how are the other two options, does anyone have any experience? Also, how are the auto boxes on these? I don't have any objection to either two or three pedals, but I'd prefer to avoid an unreliable option if possible.

Thanks as always 

Morning all,

I'm starting to think about changing the Zafira for a similar bus that's a bit newer. Zafira Tourer is an obvious candidate and a quick look about suggests three engine options. There's a N/A 1.8 which looks like a continuation of the 1.6/1.8 units in my current car, 2.0 diesel and a 1.4T petrol, neither of which I know anything about. Obviously the 2.0 will deliver better economy, but at the cost of reliability?

I'm drawn instinctively to the 1.8 as its very much the devil I know, but how are the other two options, does anyone have any experience? Also, how are the auto boxes on these? I don't have any objection to either two or three pedals, but I'd prefer to avoid an unreliable option if possible.

Thanks as always 

2.0 diesel is virtually unbreakable. I had it in my astra. Traded it at around 120,000 miles and it was still pulling like a train. You are, of course, taking a chance on the dpf having been treated right at a higher mileage. I used to let mine finish a regen before I'd stop the engine, plenty dont.

Never had a deseasel but looks as though i might have to if and when i replace the humble Vectra. How long does a regen take,or does it vary from car to car, or depending on the state of the DPF?

[STEMO]

Morning all,

I'm starting to think about changing the Zafira for a similar bus that's a bit newer. Zafira Tourer is an obvious candidate and a quick look about suggests three engine options. There's a N/A 1.8 which looks like a continuation of the 1.6/1.8 units in my current car, 2.0 diesel and a 1.4T petrol, neither of which I know anything about. Obviously the 2.0 will deliver better economy, but at the cost of reliability?

I'm drawn instinctively to the 1.8 as its very much the devil I know, but how are the other two options, does anyone have any experience? Also, how are the auto boxes on these? I don't have any objection to either two or three pedals, but I'd prefer to avoid an unreliable option if possible.

Thanks as always 

Morning all,

I'm starting to think about changing the Zafira for a similar bus that's a bit newer. Zafira Tourer is an obvious candidate and a quick look about suggests three engine options. There's a N/A 1.8 which looks like a continuation of the 1.6/1.8 units in my current car, 2.0 diesel and a 1.4T petrol, neither of which I know anything about. Obviously the 2.0 will deliver better economy, but at the cost of reliability?

I'm drawn instinctively to the 1.8 as its very much the devil I know, but how are the other two options, does anyone have any experience? Also, how are the auto boxes on these? I don't have any objection to either two or three pedals, but I'd prefer to avoid an unreliable option if possible.

Thanks as always 

2.0 diesel is virtually unbreakable. I had it in my astra. Traded it at around 120,000 miles and it was still pulling like a train. You are, of course, taking a chance on the dpf having been treated right at a higher mileage. I used to let mine finish a regen before I'd stop the engine, plenty dont.

Never had a deseasel but looks as though i might have to if and when i replace the humble Vectra. How long does a regen take,or does it vary from car to car, or depending on the state of the DPF?

First of all, Ron, you've got to work out exactly when a regen is happening. Manufacturers don't help at all. My 2.0 astra used to idle at around 1000 rpm instead of 850 when a regen was happening, and you could hear the difference in engine tone. The 1.6 I've inherited from wifey makes a drone through the exhaust, which took me a while to work out. She said she noticed it now and again, but it was gone when she started up again 
It happens around every 300 miles when new, but can drop as low as 200 miles as the dpf ages. Not every driver has the opportunity to keep driving when it starts, as it can take up to 10 minutes depending on what type of road your are on. Crawling through town is no good at all.
You can usually tell if you've switched off during a regen, because the dpf will be red hot and the cooling fans will start up to try to dissipate the heat.
I am fortunate in as much as I am extremely intelligent  and have the time to drive on if/when I need to. I think it would probably be a faff for most people. I, personally, think it's worth it for 60mpg, some might not.

[STEMO]

Oh...and the regen interval will change due to the type of journeys you make. The shop and back is no good for diesels.

[Viral_Jim]

Thanks Ste, I did wonder if it was the same lump as in your Astra(s). I agree about the DPF, and I can see a replacement aint cheap! That said, my use will most likely be mixed enough that it wont suffer in my ownership, just as long as its not goosed before I get it.

[ronnyd]

Thanks Steve. 

[TheBoy]

I think the diesel Tourer still uses the crappy M32 gearbox, which although modified late in the Zaf-B production run, is still flawed, and eats bearings.  Easy to spot one on why out if you know what to look for, and only about £400 to repair if you catch it early enough.

I've found the smaller GM petrol turbos to be quite thirsty.  But, then, they are all hire cars, and get driven as such.  They feel too flat off boost, and when on boost, drinks the go-go juice.

I seem to recall when we looked, Zaf-C's were a bit heavier than Zac-B, so that 1.8 might feel less perky in one?

[Viral_Jim]

That doesn't sound like the worst thing in the world, I would have thought used 'boxes aren't that rare either.

My Zaf B is the 1.6, so I figured the extra mass Vs the extra 20 horses would about even out. Plus, it's either me on my own in there, or it's full to the gunnels with family and stuff, and in that scenario, any speed over about 65 seems to trigger a loud whine from somewhere in the region of the back seat. 

[Doctor Gollum]

I would suggest the 1.8 petrol. Both for longevity and simplicity. Both of which outweigh the undersized 1.4 and the unnecessary complexity of modern diesel ecomentalist shyte.

What you avoid in repair costs will far exceed the fuel penalties.

[Viral_Jim]

You make some excellent points.

The main thing I like about the current Zaf is it's simplicity and the fact that all the bits for it are so damn cheap.

There are a number of other things in the running: Grand voyager, ford Galaxy, R Class, Disco 3, or even one of those bonkers Japanese minivans but the expense of maintenance of all of those Vs the zaf is really off putting 

[Doctor Gollum]

The R500 would be mechanically pretty bombproof. If a tad thirsty.

You'd never park next to another

[Viral_Jim]

I saw an R63 for sale not that long ago. What a mental vehicle 

That said, the 320 CDI didn't ought to be too bad reliability wise. Were they all airmatic or can you get them on proper springs too?

[Doctor Gollum]

I saw an R63 for sale not that long ago. What a mental vehicle 

£39,000 was a bit out of my budget, but one of the rarest production cars on the planet

[Viral_Jim]

That's the one! I think the same dealer had a 6.0 V12 TDI Audi Q7, another one youre unlikely to see next to you at the lights 

[Andy B]

I saw an R63 for sale not that long ago. What a mental vehicle 

That said, the 320 CDI didn't ought to be too bad reliability wise. Were they all airmatic or can you get them on proper springs too?

I would imagine that Airmatic was one of a very long list of options .... certainly was on my R Class & ML

[Viral_Jim]

I didn't realise you'd had both Andy. How did the two compare?

[STEMO]

I saw an R63 for sale not that long ago. What a mental vehicle 

£39,000 was a bit out of my budget, but one of the rarest production cars on the planet

Only 200 ever made, in just one production year.

[Andy B]

I didn't realise you'd had both Andy. How did the two compare?

Very similar to drive though both are BIG cars .... can be a bugger to park at times.The ML350 is slightly faster 0 to 60, better on fuel & cheaper road tax due to having Adblue. Fingers crossed that it behaves as you fo hear of problems that cost a lot to sort out. I had problems with the turbo actuator on the R320 which seems to  a common Merc problem but haven't had need to do a thing to the ML .... yet.

[TheBoy]

That doesn't sound like the worst thing in the world, I would have thought used 'boxes aren't that rare either.

My Zaf B is the 1.6, so I figured the extra mass Vs the extra 20 horses would about even out. Plus, it's either me on my own in there, or it's full to the gunnels with family and stuff, and in that scenario, any speed over about 65 seems to trigger a loud whine from somewhere in the region of the back seat. 

Used boxes that aren't shagged are as common to find in breakers as Jaguar Ingenium 2 litre diesels without piston/valve intimacy...

And that includes other marques, such as Alfa, and everyone else using that chocolate box.


When they picked up my Zafira, the car transporter was full of Insignias and Astras about 8-10 years old, se did say all of them have faulty gearboxes


But sounds like you are edging towards the 1.8, which I think isn't a bad compromise of engines available.


When we looked at Zaf-B's last year, underneath every single one was rotten (and about 2/3rds of them had telltale signs of shagged gearboxes!), which surprised me, given how good the Zaf-A we had was in this respect.  The only corrosion protection I ever did to our Zaf-A was clean up the brake pipes and grease them up.  Here's hoping the Zaf-C is better in this regard.

[Doctor Gollum]

I saw an R63 for sale not that long ago. What a mental vehicle 

That said, the 320 CDI didn't ought to be too bad reliability wise. Were they all airmatic or can you get them on proper springs too?

I would imagine that Airmatic was one of a very long list of options .... certainly was on my R Class & ML

My R Class only had the rear, non adjustable Airmatic as per the W211/212 estate. Which freed up the option of reverting to rear springs when the rear airbags went south.

The R63 had a minimum of full Airmatic with adaptive shocks. Have to check the brochure, but ABC may have been an option 

Certainly, the standard car handled pretty robustly on springs.

[Andy B]

I saw an R63 for sale not that long ago. What a mental vehicle 

That said, the 320 CDI didn't ought to be too bad reliability wise. Were they all airmatic or can you get them on proper springs too?

I would imagine that Airmatic was one of a very long list of options .... certainly was on my R Class & ML

My R Class only had the rear, non adjustable Airmatic as per the W211/212 estate. Which freed up the option of reverting to rear springs when the rear airbags went south.

The R63 had a minimum of full Airmatic with adaptive shocks. Have to check the brochure, but ABC may have been an option 

Certainly, the standard car handled pretty robustly on springs.

I believe ALL R Class had air at the back irrespective of Airmatic ..... 6 or 7 people in a barge are heavy 
No idea about ABC 

[Viral_Jim]

Thanks Andy, that's useful insight.

I considered the R class as a replacement for both my car and the Zaf, but wasn't sure I could live with the looks of a Mk1 and didn't really have the budget for a facelift. 

When they picked up my Zafira, the car transporter was full of Insignias and Astras about 8-10 years old, se did say all of them have faulty gearboxes


But sounds like you are edging towards the 1.8, which I think isn't a bad compromise of engines available.


When we looked at Zaf-B's last year, underneath every single one was rotten (and about 2/3rds of them had telltale signs of shagged gearboxes!), which surprised me, given how good the Zaf-A we had was in this respect.  The only corrosion protection I ever did to our Zaf-A was clean up the brake pipes and grease them up.  Here's hoping the Zaf-C is better in this regard.

Hmm, perhaps less good news  . So are the 5 speed boxes on the N/A petrols more robust then? I've never had any issues with mine, but I'm aware thats a sample size of 1!

Mine certainly isn't rotten - yet. But I'd much rather not have the regular chore of cleaning it up. Also being able to sell it as a working example, rather than a £350 source of bean tins would be nice.

[LC0112G]

You make some excellent points.

The main thing I like about the current Zaf is it's simplicity and the fact that all the bits for it are so damn cheap.

There are a number of other things in the running: Grand voyager, ford Galaxy, R Class, Disco 3, or even one of those bonkers Japanese minivans but the expense of maintenance of all of those Vs the zaf is really off putting 

My Sister and family had one of these for about 10 years - they used to call it Ellie. They really liked it, but it became no end of trouble getting spares once Chrysler pulled out of the UK market. From memory they had to have the brake calipers replaced several times coz they seized - and it wasn't through lack of use. Eventually the auto gearbox started playing up - it would slip when in drive until the auto fluid had properly warmed up. Then eventually it wouldn't pull away at all. Second hand gearboxes basically rare as hens teeth, and a new gearbox would need to be imported from the USA.

So they gave it the last rites and it got trailer away in P/X for some Korean thing - can't remember what.

[Andy B]

My Dad has had a Grand Voyager for a good few years now .... used to ferry the dead from mortuary to Chapel of rest etc  lol .... He's never had any problems with his other than a failed ABS sensor.

[Viral_Jim]

I imagine the interior on them is going to be similar to my 300c ie spacious, comfy and a bit plasticky. In other words ideal for transporting family members young and old.

I am honestly trying to get away from having two cars, but the state of the Disco 5 after the last 6-up trip to France makes me feel like maybe keeping 'my own' car wouldn't be a bad idea  . I really don't give a toss about the state of the Zaf and I find that quite liberating, particularly when waving it off with some airport parking service, or leaving it in the station car park. Not sure I could be so blasé about £10k worth of Merc.

[Doctor Gollum]

I saw an R63 for sale not that long ago. What a mental vehicle 

That said, the 320 CDI didn't ought to be too bad reliability wise. Were they all airmatic or can you get them on proper springs too?

I would imagine that Airmatic was one of a very long list of options .... certainly was on my R Class & ML

My R Class only had the rear, non adjustable Airmatic as per the W211/212 estate. Which freed up the option of reverting to rear springs when the rear airbags went south.

The R63 had a minimum of full Airmatic with adaptive shocks. Have to check the brochure, but ABC may have been an option 

Certainly, the standard car handled pretty robustly on springs.

I believe ALL R Class had air at the back irrespective of Airmatic ..... 6 or 7 people in a barge are heavy 
No idea about ABC 

Nope, the 280/300cdi had springs all round regardless of wheelbase. Certainly in Euroland if not the UK. Full Airmatic was a V6 option and standard on the V8.

[Sir Tigger KC]

Why the issue with Merc air bags?   

[Nick W]

Why the issue with Merc air bags? 

Same as any other airbag, owners don't change them as soon as they start to leak which kills more expensive components as well.

[TheBoy]

Hmm, perhaps less good news  . So are the 5 speed boxes on the N/A petrols more robust then? I've never had any issues with mine, but I'm aware thats a sample size of 1!

Mine certainly isn't rotten - yet. But I'd much rather not have the regular chore of cleaning it up. Also being able to sell it as a working example, rather than a £350 source of bean tins would be nice.

I think it's a very specific issue to the M32 6 speed manual. If you go down that route, look on YouTube for how to spot a worn bearing issue on a m32 gearbox.

My Zaf-A was a 5 speed manual, which aside from a worn out gearstick pivot which I replaced a few years back, was a great little box - even with the abuse I gave it. 

[STEMO]

Mine was a six speed auto. No trouble with engine or gearbox in over 100,000 miles.

[BazaJT]

Last weekend I helped change the gearbox[6 speed manual]on a 1.6 turbo Astra GTC which had just short of 80,000 miles on it.the new[second hand]gearbox was from a similar car but with only 30,000 miles on it.

[tigers_gonads]

How many seats do you need ?

[Marks DTM Calib]

2.0 CDTi is the F40 box and not the M32 so fewer issues (although I put 197k hard miles miles on an M32 with the 1.9 CDti and had no issues and that was the unmodified box, it did get 50k oil changes)  and the later updates have made big improvements to the M32, I personally wouldn't be avoiding them.

The 1.4T is acceptable, more so than I would have expected.

[Viral_Jim]

How many seats do you need ?

Six is the minimum. And that's on and approximately monthly basis. 7 is useful as it's very often 6 people plus mobility scooter, so a 2-3-1 formation works best unless the car is mahoosive enough to have the scooter behind the rear seats.

[Andy B]

How many seats do you need ?

Six is the minimum. And that's on and approximately monthly basis. 7 is useful as it's very often 6 people plus mobility scooter, so a 2-3-1 formation works best unless the car is mahoosive enough to have the scooter behind the rear seats.

You need a Chrysler Grand Voyager with the seats that fold into the floor (apparently not all have that option) Seats up & you seat 7 in total ie 6 passengers ... seats down & it rivals a Transit for carrying stuff. 
They're getting on a bit now though.

[STEMO]

How many seats do you need ?

Six is the minimum. And that's on and approximately monthly basis. 7 is useful as it's very often 6 people plus mobility scooter, so a 2-3-1 formation works best unless the car is mahoosive enough to have the scooter behind the rear seats.

You need a Chrysler Grand Voyager with the seats that fold into the floor (apparently not all have that option) Seats up & you seat 7 in total ie 6 passengers ... seats down & it rivals a Transit for carrying stuff. 
They're getting on a bit now though.

Or an actual transit minibus.

[Doctor Gollum]

The Torneo or Vito

Or Viano if you're feeling posh.

[Marks DTM Calib]

Trouble is, as soon as you go van base you lose a hell of a lot of the everyday use refinement

[Nick W]

Trouble is, as soon as you go van base you lose a hell of a lot of the everyday use refinement

Compared to a Voyager?

[Viral_Jim]

Trouble is, as soon as you go van base you lose a hell of a lot of the everyday use refinement

I found this to be the case with the berlingo I inherited from my then mother in law. Vastly practical, but also dreadfully unrefined and uncomfortable.

Not a bad tool, but not really a car, and certainly not something id use for family holidays.

[Doctor Gollum]

You forget, it's basically a Saxo van

A petrol Viano would be reasonably refined and ULEZ compliant. And offers a better choice of wheelbase options compared to the Tourneo

Cheap too because they aren't overly popular.

Starter for 10...

I just found my dream car... Search for yours https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202305026912078?advertising-location=at_cars&atmobcid=soc5&fromsra&include-delivery-option=on&journey=PROMOTED_LISTING_JOURNEY&make=Mercedes-Benz&model=Viano&sort=price-asc

[Doctor Gollum]

Incidentally, the diesel Transmits really, really hate stop start town work. We had one at my previous job that had to be taken on a high rpm two hour drive every week just to keep the EML off. Not designed for short stop start city journeys.

[STEMO]

Incidentally, the diesel Transmits really, really hate stop start town work. We had one at my previous job that had to be taken on a high rpm two hour drive every week just to keep the EML off. Not designed for short stop start city journeys.

And yet Amazon drivers use them all the time. Our man leaves his running outside the house.

[Doctor Gollum]

Incidentally, the diesel Transmits really, really hate stop start town work. We had one at my previous job that had to be taken on a high rpm two hour drive every week just to keep the EML off. Not designed for short stop start city journeys.

And yet Amazon drivers use them all the time. Our man leaves his running outside the house.

Because they're more reliable than the PSA shit. Put another way, doing 20mph for five minutes at a time 24/7 puts them into limp mode within a tank of fuel.
Achieving a reasonable speed every so often helps, but doesn't change the fact that a modern petrol engine will be more reliable than a diesel one, especially when you allow for emission related repairs.

[Andy B]

Trouble is, as soon as you go van base you lose a hell of a lot of the everyday use refinement

Compared to a Voyager?

My Dad has a diseasal Voyager ..... I don't think it's that bad. I've driven worse.

[TheBoy]

Trouble is, as soon as you go van base you lose a hell of a lot of the everyday use refinement

Compared to a Voyager?

My Dad has a diseasal Voyager ..... I don't think it's that bad. I've driven worse.

I do, awful things

That said, I have the luxury of not having to compare it it a post 1980s Mercedes <snigger>

[Andy B]

....
, I have the luxury of not having to compare it it a post 1980s Mercedes <snigger>

 

[Andy B]

....
I do, awful things ....

go on ... why do you think that. I think it drives quite well .... certainly moves OK at speed on the motorway

[TheBoy]

....
I do, awful things ....

go on ... why do you think that. I think it drives quite well .... certainly moves OK at speed on the motorway

Softly sprung, yet not comfortable ride, doesn't like to change direction quickly. Not bothered to ever look, but felt like it had typical yank suspension, and hence an utter mess with a roundabout.  I really aint a fan of the Galaxy family, but they are league ahead of the Voyager in terms of ride and handling.

As it happens, as long as you have a bit of weight in the back, I think the transits ride better