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[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Mother Theresa has spoken.

My problem is that I have no idea what 'Brexit means brexit' actually means.

What happens if the three brexiteers, Boris Johnson, David Davis, and Liam Fox can't get a good deal for Britain?

Who decides if the deal is good enough.......or not? What happens if our demands fall on deaf ears?

[Nick W]

Mother Theresa has spoken.

My problem is that I have no idea what 'Brexit means brexit' actually means.

What happens if the three brexiteers, Boris Johnson, David Davis, and Liam Fox can't get a good deal for Britain?

Who decides if the deal is good enough.......or not? What happens if our demands fall on deaf ears?

And why had none of them thought any of those through before the referendum?

[Varche]

Well Nick, by the same token having offered the nation the choice by referendum....Why hadnt the Tory government of Cameron come up with both scenarios? I.e. Done the prep.

I think Britain ought to set up a European Free Trade area covering Europe maybe even farther than the 28 countries and get EU countries to join. Think big instead of small.

TTIP has fallen dead. We could do the same with agreement with the US. Then get whatever is left of the EU to join too.

The demands wont fall on deaf ears. That wont be the problem. The problem will be trying to get 27 nations with disparate needs to agree anything. They cannot agree on immigratrion, migrants, migrant quotas, building barriers etcetc. Whilst Germany needs and wants to continue selling huge quantities of cars each year to the Uk, the needs of sayCroatia are completely different. It will all change too after the German and French elections.

Sleep easy Opti.

[biggriffin]

Know here's something nobody has thought about, or asked the question

So prime minister we voted out of Europe'

Yes you all doc's

'So what deal are you going to do with the Europeans,'
 
'Well what ever deal we the government do has nothing to with you,that's what us politician's do, but you can be assured it will be the best deal we can do for the British public, we may even do a deal that's better than the deal we had,but not as good the deal we will negotiate"

[Nick W]

Well Nick, by the same token having offered the nation the choice by referendum....Why hadnt the Tory government of Cameron come up with both scenarios? I.e. Done the prep.

That is exactly my point. The opposition should have done the same, as a remain vote would rendered the Tory government unfit for power.


Instead, both sides and both parties(not the same thing) used the result as an excuse for a load of infighting.


On top of that, the electorate decided that a majority in a simple yes/no vote is unclear, or realised just how stupid voting 'tactically' against what they actually wanted really is.


The whole thing makes us look like a bunch of stroppy teenagers stomping about shouting It's so unfair! That we're surprised when everybody else treats us like that(ignore them until they grow up) is even more pathetic.

[Sir Tigger KC]

So do people think that the Government should have negotiated exit terms with the EU first and then put it to the people in a referendum? 

They'd have been negotiating a hypothetical situation and given that most politicians are pro-EU and the general intransigence of the EU to reform or change, the outcome would have been a poor deal for the UK designed to make the people vote Remain. 

What we have is less than perfect, but our Government have a solid outcome to aim for which gives them mighty incentive to negotiate what is best for the UK! 

[Varche]

No not at all. My point is that we pay our government to manage the country. When it is faced with a variety of outcomes it plans for those outcomes. e.g. Avian Flu, Small pox getting out of Porton Down, Russian incursion into our airspace, Terrorist attack, drought, Frenchies closing the jungle, referendum....

Then we find that the civil servants (Yes minister) had done no planning because Cameron assumed breathtakingly it was a done deal.  Someone should have been sacked but he resaigned before we could sack him.

Back to OP. Who decides a deal is good enough? Same as in every case. The politicians. Just look at Hinkley Point as a current example. Do YOU know it is a good deal? No. You can have a gut feeling that it will never work and that the waste will be toxic for ever but you aren't party to the facts.

[Nick W]

So do people think that the Government should have negotiated exit terms with the EU first and then put it to the people in a referendum? 


What we have is less than perfect, but our Government have a solid outcome to aim for which gives them mighty incentive to negotiate what is best for the UK! 

How would that have been possible? But there should have been some sort of plan of what they hoped to achieve and who would do what.


Solid outcome to aim for? Brexit means Brexit is actually code for Does ANYBODY have any ideas? Please? Anyone?

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Varche is correct. Camerons staggering arrogance meant that he thought it was a done deal. Nick Clegg said so recently. He told CAmeron he was taking a big risk when he announced the referendum. Cameron told him there was no risk as he knew he would win.
To me, this sums up our political class perfectly. Him and Osborne -the 3rd worst Chancellor of the last 100 years, lived up to their reputation of arrogant, ignorant out of touch, elitist toffs. Hence, no plan whatsoever, if the referendum didn't go their way.
I started out extremely sceptical about Theresa May, but I'm slowly warming to her. Its early days, but I think the signs, so far, are promising.
She is a wily old fox, and is deliberately being vague, but she has stated that we will leave the EU, no if or buts, no staying in by the back door, no long winded argument in Parliament, giving the politicians a chance to wreck it, and ignore the 17.4 million of their constituents who have told them what to do.
I don't trust Boris and I'm not sure about Liam Fox but I have long been an admirer of David Davis -the best leader the Tories never had.
I would imagine headmistress will keep a wary eye on them and give them a caning if its needed.

[Varche]

Did you read my first post Nick?

We are in fact negotiating from a position of strength but most people do not realise it. Blue Sky thinking is required not headless chicken mode demonstarted by so many Remainiacs. I am not a T. May fan but so far I think she is doing alright. I still have a very very strong suspicion that she is just a front man  and that the powers that be( and they are truly immense) are working on annulling Brexit and getting back to the Germany running Europe dream  Eu is best dream. Who is orchestrating the demos in the UK?

[Sir Tigger KC]

Solid outcome to aim for? Brexit means Brexit is actually code for Does ANYBODY have any ideas? Please? Anyone?

You obviously havn't been paying attention over the last few months Nick!   

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

We are indeed negotiating from a position of strength, and I'm beginning to become hopeful that May is the quietly determined, level headed type of person best suited to overseeing it. Time will tell though.

[Nick W]

We are indeed negotiating from a position of strength, and I'm beginning to become hopeful that May is the quietly determined, level headed type of person best suited to overseeing it. Time will tell though.

I'm hopeful of that. But she doesn't have much to work with, and time is running out.
The position of strength is often mentioned, but is largely our own image of Britain.
And like most nationalities, our image of ourselves is very different to how the rest of the world sees us.

[Varche]

Wellit is time we manned up and stopped doing ourselves down.

We arent a banana republic like the place that I chose to live in.

Think likelosers become losers. Act like winners and we have a good chance.

do not believe me? Just look what themarkets did toour economy albeit temporarily.

[Mister Rog]

We are indeed negotiating from a position of strength, and I'm beginning to become hopeful that May is the quietly determined, level headed type of person best suited to overseeing it. Time will tell though.

Me too.

No point in analysing, ruminating, and hand wringing. Right or wrong, the vote is cast, so no dithering, backtracking, or finger pointing, get on with it. And get on with it with confidence.