Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Friend in PA]

Hmm.. First I guess I should ask if they sell this stuff in the UK?

I am about to do a full system flush and plan to replace the old Dex Cool red stuff with Prestoine Platinum.

Anyone here use this in their Omegas?

[TheBoy]

Not sure I've seen that in the UK, only Prestone products I've seen here are budget end car shampoos.

As long as it meets the spec of what the glovebox user handbook says (and its important that it does), I put in whatever is cheapest/convenient.

[Andy B]

Costco sell Prestone anti-freeze 

https://www.costco.co.uk/Tyres-Automotive/Car-Maintenance/Oils-Fluids/Prestone-Summer-Coolant-Winter-Antifreeze-4-Litre/p/371307

[STEMO]

It's also available on Amazon.

[Nick W]

What are you expecting it to better than any other coolant that meets the engine desgner's specification?

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Pretty sure ECP also sell it. Not sure about the spec though.

[Friend in PA]

What are you expecting it to better than any other coolant that meets the engine desgner's specification?

According to the literature it is the best they make and will last 15 years or 350000 miles.

https://prestone.com/product/platinumafc/

MAXIMUM ENGINE PROTECTION† Guaranteed For All Vehicles
15+ Years**/350,000 Miles – Fluid Guaranteed for the Life of your Vehicle*
Extreme Freeze & Boil Over Protection -50 ̊F / +268 ̊F
Industry Leading Protection From Engine-Damaging Rust & Corrosion including our most advanced Prestone Cor-Guard® technology.
Universally works with all fluid colors; All OAT, POAT, HOAT & IAT; G05®, G11®, G12®, G12++®, G13®, G30®, G40®, & GG40®. For all engines & engine sizes, new and older engines.

[amba]

And they said the moon was flat and made out of cheese.

Best advice change coolant every few years

[Nick W]

An Omega won't retain coolant for 35,000 miles - which is almost the timing belt interval - let alone 350,000.


Which makes the manufacturer's marketing wank irrelevant even if you beleive it.

[Friend in PA]

Point being that for the same price as Dex Cool you get what is allegedly a better product. With my mileage being well under 5,000 per year it will last several years with no worries.

In any event, it's my choice for the upcoming flush and recharge in the next week or so before the season kicks in up here in the mountains.

Cheers

[johnnydog]

An Omega won't retain coolant for 35,000 miles - which is almost the timing belt interval - let alone 350,000.

Which makes the manufacturer's marketing wank irrelevant even if you beleive it.

Rubbish.....
I've had a couple of V6 Omegas with full Vauxhall service history, but with no mention of coolant flushes/ changes in over 8 years. Not ideal, and obviously something the previous owner didn't feel necessary or didn't want doing, but the cam belt change and coolant was one of the first jobs I attended to.
But to suggest that the Omega engine won't 'retain' coolant for 35,000 miles or more is claptrap.

But...another new OOFer treated with condescending and critical comments which I think is totally unreasonable. Surely having advice from experienced owners is what he wanted, but there's a way and a manner in which to give it.

[STEMO]

An Omega won't retain coolant for 35,000 miles - which is almost the timing belt interval - let alone 350,000.

Which makes the manufacturer's marketing wank irrelevant even if you beleive it.

Rubbish.....
I've had a couple of V6 Omegas with full Vauxhall service history, but with no mention of coolant flushes/ changes in over 8 years. Not ideal, and obviously something the previous owner didn't feel necessary or didn't want doing, but the cam belt change and coolant was one of the first jobs I attended to.
But to suggest that the Omega engine won't 'retain' coolant for 35,000 miles or more is claptrap.

But...another new OOFer treated with condescending and critical comments which I think is totally unreasonable. Surely having advice from experienced owners is what he wanted, but there's a way and a manner in which to give it.

Bad johnnydog! No belly rubs or walkies for you this afternoon 

[Doctor Gollum]

It should be noted that the weak spot in the Omega cooling system has nothing to do with the coolant.

The HBV should be treated as a service item. Even genuine ones have been known to fail in short order, ie within two years, and when* it fails, it will dump the coolant.

The problem is not knowing what combination of neglect has previously been used to top up the system following a slow leak (reseevoir/cap) or a catastrophic one (HBV).

The moment incorrect fluids such as tap or mineral water or incompatible coolant are used, the system degrades from the inside out.

It isn't possible for one coolant to meet every manufacturers specifications. And given that coolant changes are a service item, I would suggest sticking with Dexcool as described by GM.

*If isn't an appropriate word in this case as at some point the HBV WILL fail.

[Andy B]

....
The moment incorrect fluids such as tap or mineral water or incompatible coolant are used, the system degrades from the inside out. .....

My cars have only ever had good old corporation pop ..... but ours is pretty soft

[Doctor Gollum]

....
The moment incorrect fluids such as tap or mineral water or incompatible coolant are used, the system degrades from the inside out. .....

My cars have only ever had good old corporation pop ..... but ours is pretty soft

Ours is hard enough to scale fish. 

[Nick W]

....
The moment incorrect fluids such as tap or mineral water or incompatible coolant are used, the system degrades from the inside out. .....

My cars have only ever had good old corporation pop ..... but ours is pretty soft

Ours is hard enough to scale fish. 

here on the North Downs the water can, and actually does, break rocks .[size=78%] I still pour it into cooling systems without a first thought.[/size]

[johnnydog]

It should be noted that the weak spot in the Omega cooling system has nothing to do with the coolant.

The HBV should be treated as a service item. Even genuine ones have been known to fail in short order, ie within two years, and when* it fails, it will dump the coolant.

The problem is not knowing what combination of neglect has previously been used to top up the system following a slow leak (reseevoir/cap) or a catastrophic one (HBV).

The moment incorrect fluids such as tap or mineral water or incompatible coolant are used, the system degrades from the inside out.

It isn't possible for one coolant to meet every manufacturers specifications. And given that coolant changes are a service item, I would suggest sticking with Dexcool as described by GM.

*If isn't an appropriate word in this case as at some point the HBV WILL fail.

Having owned 12 (at last count) Omegas since 2004; I have 3 V6's in regular use, but I have only ever had 1 HBV fail.... probably jinxed it now 
Coolant changes are a cheap aspect of regular maintenance imho. I live in a soft water area, so I have only ever used tap water with the red VX antifreeze.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Neglect of coolant changes is the cause of oil cooler failure, which leads to a world of pain. Aint wurf it guv. 
I have also only had one HBV failure over 15 years and several Omegas.
I do have one or two used genuine spares in the shed for emergencies though.

[Doctor Gollum]

All 8 of mine needed one... Lowest mileage was 27k miles, and my '54 had at least two, but then that car did 170k miles in my ownership on top of the 97,000 that TVP put on it.

Perhaps the caveat should be age/mileage. Certainly it is a standard Omega failure within the 80-120k mile window...

Reliably the following items were where the Omega got its 'unreliable' reputation when in fleet use:

Coil packs
Camcover gaskets
HBV failure
Wishbone bushes
Steering idlers
Oil cooler
Crank sensors
Door lock solenoids

The only thing on that list protected by regular, thorough, servicing is the oil cooler, my '54 was on its original one at 265k miles.

And I put that down to regular changes using only GM coolant and distilled water from the first change onwards.

[amba]

Totally agree with DG,

My 3.2 has covered 245k ..178k in my ownership and still regularly covers 100+ miles most days for work.From memory has had coil packs twice/HBV also twice and gets coolant fully replaced every 2 years and is also still on original oil cooler and HG,s.

Still runs like a well kept watch too 

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Camcover gaskets can also be preserved through regular maintenance. Ie regular cleaning of the breathers. 
Which in turn also helps preserve the coil packs on DBW cars.

[Doctor Gollum]

Camcover gaskets can also be preserved through regular maintenance. Ie regular cleaning of the breathers. 
Which in turn also helps preserve the coil packs on DBW cars.

To a point. As any BMW owner will attest, the rubbery bits turn to glass and once they start weeping, they are pretty much done. But again that's as much about heat cycles, mileage and time

[STEMO]

Oh look, a coolant thread.

Friend in PA, never, ever ask about oil 

[TheBoy]

TBE never had an HBV failure, although I always kept a spare in the boot, along with a spare crank sensor, although that never failed either.

The Silver Bullet had at least 1 HBV failure (might have been 2).  But then it also had 2 crank sensor failures. Oh, and 2 head gasket failures

None of mine had oil cooler failures, though I bought The Heap (N reg 2.5 CD) with a failed cooler, hence dirt cheap.  I'm fairly sure that nice DTM chap told me to bring a new oil cooler when we changed the heads over at the 2nd Telford meet, though the one one was fine, si the Silver Bullet did get a new oil cooler.

As a general rule of thumb, I changed my coolant in the Omegas about every 2 to 3 years, using the dealer supplied GM stuff based on low price (something like £20 for 20l)  and convenience (delivered free, usually same day).  15 mins of work and about £6, gave me something to do when the oil was draining

[Enceladus]

All 8 of mine needed one... Lowest mileage was 27k miles, and my '54 had at least two, but then that car did 170k miles in my ownership on top of the 97,000 that TVP put on it.

Perhaps the caveat should be age/mileage. Certainly it is a standard Omega failure within the 80-120k mile window...

Reliably the following items were where the Omega got its 'unreliable' reputation when in fleet use:

Coil packs
Camcover gaskets
HBV failure
Wishbone bushes
Steering idlers
Oil cooler
Crank sensors
Door lock solenoids

The only thing on that list protected by regular, thorough, servicing is the oil cooler, my '54 was on its original one at 265k miles.

And I put that down to regular changes using only GM coolant and distilled water from the first change onwards.

You forgot the most important and destructive failure of all. That is major engine damage caused by throwing the cam belt due to early failure of the tensioner roller. The USA Cadillac Catera's reputation was rapidly destroyed and never recovered. Sales plummeted.

In the UK in the late 90's I recall that 3-4 year old cars with dealer replaced engines were easily available and fetched more at auction.

[Doctor Gollum]

That was dealer induced failure as they only replaced the belt, not the rollers.

V6 Vectra Bs suffered badly from this too.

Mine only ever had 80k mile belt kit changes with no issue. Although, that said, they were within the four year time limit.

[grifter]

Totally agree with DG,

My 3.2 has covered 245k ..178k in my ownership and still regularly covers 100+ miles most days for work.From memory has had coil packs twice/HBV also twice and gets coolant fully replaced every 2 years and is also still on original oil cooler and HG,s.

Still runs like a well kept watch too 

Was the later oil cooler stainless steel and the older one (something else) alloy I guess? Pulled the cooler from my 3.2 while doing TB/Cam covers etc. had to strip it to satisfy my curiosity. Looks like brand new tbh. Sealant round the top plate was hanging out though.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

I had a 2002 2.6 estate with oil cooler failure. So presumably they are all prone to failure.

[TheBoy]

If the coolant servicing is abused (ie, if you only change it at 5yrs, or leave even longer), even the stainless coolers fail.  Although normally the alloy top plate corrodes through first.

They have all been stainless since around 1997 from memory

[Steveh]

What is an HBV ? 

[Doctor Gollum]

Heater Bypass Valve. 

A variable vacuum operated valve that regulates the connection between the cooling system and the heater matrix and controlled by the climate control panel.

It’s made of plastic and mounted to the back of the cylinder head and prone to heat cycle embrittlement, and therefore leaks.

It’s failure is an issue, because at speed, you can potentially lose All the coolant before you notice the coolant level warning and get to the side of the road.

[Steveh]

Oh thanks @Doctor Gollum does the 4 pot have this issue as well ?

[Doctor Gollum]

All facelift cars and I believe any earlier cars with aircon/climate control. 

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

My prefacelift v6 certainly had one. I think it had A/C but couldnt swear to it. Memory is a tad foggy. 

[Andy B]

..