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[Admin]

His death was announced tonight.

I truly hope this mans soul rots in the darkest deepest pits of hell!

He was an "acceptable dictactor" to far too many of the worlds leaders for far too many years. It is amazing what our "leaders" allow to occur if there is no oil/strategic land involved (lots of public rhetoric but under the surface things were very very different!)

He was a monster. A cold blooded mass murderer who commited more atrocities than Saddam Hussein.
A man who propogated race hate in a world that really should have long since moved on!

I personally am going to have a drink and toast this mans death for the world is a better place tonight!

[hotel21]

LB - dont be so evasive, say exactly what you think, man!!  

[Bo Bo]

His death was announced tonight.

I truly hope this mans soul rots in the darkest deepest pits of hell!

He was an "acceptable dictactor" to far too many of the worlds leaders for far too many years. It is amazing what our "leaders" allow to occur if there is no oil/strategic land involved (lots of public rhetoric but under the surface things were very very different!)

He was a monster. A cold blooded mass murderer who commited more atrocities than Saddam Hussein.
A man who propogated race hate in a world that really should have long since moved on!

I personally am going to have a drink and toast this mans death for the world is a better place tonight!

Hear, hear

[bob.dent]

Well said Dave

Lets hope the vile African leader Robert Mugabe is next!!

[TheBoy]

Firstly, I am in no way defending him. But in the spirit of open debate...

He may have been brought up in a time and in an environment where he genuinely thought there was nothing wrong with his treatment of black africans (he seemed to be accepting of other races). Is this his fault, or the fault of his upbringing?  In the same way perhaps, as my grandparents generation was ditrusting of Germans?

I went to a school that seemed to be racist.  As schoolboys do, punch-ups often happened in the playground. Everytime I hit someone of ethnic origin, no punishment was given. Hit one of the white kids, and I was in big trouble.  Disgusting.  (I should point out I was not racist, I just hit whoever pissed me off that day).  And to think this school was that racist even in the 1980s....

As stated, I in no way defend him, or agree with him, or even understand what happened (I was probably too young at the time, and only saw the (biased?) media coverage).  And the world is a better place without him.

Whilst it would appear there is still a lot of race hate in South Africa at the moment, I appears the situation is getting better, which is good.

[TheBoy]

My comments were purposely controversial to stimulate discussison.

I agree with LB, but would like to add it was not just his fault, and plenty of other people are equally to blame - from childhood through to governement office collegues...

[Markjay]

Well what I can say in Botha's favour is that he abolished the ban on inter-racial relationships.
Errr... that's about it. I don't really have anything else to say in his favour....

[Markjay]

As for TheBoy's comment, believing in and upholding apartheid is one thing, which can (arguably) be attributed to one's upbringing, but the issue with Botha was the ruthlessness and cruelty with which we squashed any political opposition.

Most SA whites of his generation probably upheld similar opinions, but not all became murderers.

There is a difference between believing that black people are not equal, and actually joining the Ku Klux Klan. The first should be dealt with through education, the second through the courts.

[Martin_1962]

Don't forget the forgotten minority in SA.

Their national language was Africaans yet the majority and the forgotten minority always used English.

Yes the FM are the British, treated not much better than the tribal peoples.

Has SAs national language been changed to English?

[TheBoy]

As for TheBoy's comment, believing in and upholding apartheid is one thing, which can (arguably) be attributed to one's upbringing, but the issue with Botha was the ruthlessness and cruelty with which we squashed any political opposition.

Most SA whites of his generation probably upheld similar opinions, but not all became murderers.

There is a difference between believing that black people are not equal, and actually joining the Ku Klux Klan. The first should be dealt with through education, the second through the courts.

I agree entirely with you.

[RonaldMcBurger]

BE VERY CAREFUL WHERE YOU GO WITH THIS THREAD.

Most of you do not know my connections with South Africa. Afrikaans was NEVER the national language of South Africa, nor was English. It is and always has been Zulu.

It was also PW Botha who died, not PK. I can assure you all that there is no-one on this forum better vinformed or knowledgable about South Africa than myself. My involvement has spanned over 25 years and I am still a citizen, resisdent and investor in South Africa. If anyone thinks PW Botha was bad, they should take a look at what is happening now. My own nephew was murdered 12 months ago by the South African Police - who shot him in the back.

Just tread carefully before making any wild statements in this thread guys please. I am watching very closely.

[TheBoy]

BE VERY CAREFUL WHERE YOU GO WITH THIS THREAD.

Most of you do not know my connections with South Africa. Afrikaans was NEVER the national language of South Africa, nor was English. It is and always has been Zulu.

It was also PW Botha who died, not PK. I can assure you all that there is no-one on this forum better vinformed or knowledgable about South Africa than myself. My involvement has spanned over 25 years and I am still a citizen, resisdent and investor in South Africa. If anyone thinks PW Botha was bad, they should take a look at what is happening now. My own nephew was murdered 12 months ago by the South African Police - who shot him in the back.

Just tread carefully before making any wild statements in this thread guys please. I am watching very closely.

I am aware of your connections

I was under the impression (though only from UK media, which is usually sensationalist nowadays) that the situation was improving, and murder rate was on the decrease?  Is this not the case Ronnie?

My comments about the ex-president was to stimulate debate and not to offend or give false info - I hope I made that very clear in my post...

[RonaldMcBurger]

yes you did Jaime, thanks mate. Things arte now MUCH worse than they ever were under the old regime. Murders, rapes, muggings, poverty, lack of employment and corruption are at an all time high. Anyone thinking of going there for the 2010 world cup, think carefully. Is your family covered enough by your insurance?

[TheBoy]

Things arte now MUCH worse than they ever were under the old regime.

Shocked and saddened to hear. I wouldn't have believed it, but I know your connections, and hence know your statements are going to be accurate.

[Martin_1962]

BE VERY CAREFUL WHERE YOU GO WITH THIS THREAD.

Most of you do not know my connections with South Africa. Afrikaans was NEVER the national language of South Africa, nor was English. It is and always has been Zulu.

.

Thanks for the clarification

And I knew about your link

[Martin_1962]

yes you did Jaime, thanks mate. Things arte now MUCH worse than they ever were under the old regime. Murders, rapes, muggings, poverty, lack of employment and corruption are at an all time high. Anyone thinking of going there for the 2010 world cup, think carefully. Is your family covered enough by your insurance?

I didn't think things were too good but this bad - oh dear - some of the town, area, and street renames seem a bit mad though.

Have you ever read any of Tom Sharpes SA based novels?

OH and have you seen Cape Jets?