Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: Viral_Jim on 26 March 2017, 17:09:10
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Took a trip out this afternoon to see what could be done about the BMW's replacement and ended up at the Volvo dealership. :o
I took a test drive in a V60 "estate" (read reasonably generous hatchback) and was really really inpressed. The seats are the comfiest I have ever say in in a car and the refinement was excellent. Then the subject of discounts came up.
It turns out they do a rather nice deal if you're a chartered accountant (bizarre I know) which amounted to about £6k off the list price - which is about what online comparisons would give you, 3yrs/54k free servicing, free metallic paint, free extended warranty to 5yrs/100k. :)
I haven't signed on the dotted line yet but tbh I think it's more or less a foregone conclusion :y
Also saves. 50page thread discussing the options :P
PS. I did some working out and even driving nearly 30k a year, the tax on company cars is just too draconian.
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Nice choice :y
I'd get leather and wood trim options 8)
Engine?
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Nice choice :y
I'd get leather and wood trim options 8)
Engine?
I sincerely hope it runs on proper fuel.
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That is a good choice. :y
Always fancied one of their big engined estates, but never took the plunge unfortunately. :(
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Jimmy likes a car with some performance. Polestar?
Let us hope so. :)
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Nice choice :y
I'd get leather and wood trim options 8)
Engine?
Definitely leather (black) but I'm leaning more towards metal than wood 8)
Engine is either T4 or D4. Not yet decided, petrol would normally be the default choice, however the rate at which I'll put miles on the car suggests diesel. :-\
Sadly the polestar is well out of reach (no discount - I asked).
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Nice choice :y
I'd get leather and wood trim options 8)
Engine?
Definitely leather (black) but I'm leaning more towards metal than wood 8)
Engine is either T4 or D4. Not yet decided, petrol would normally be the default choice, however the rate at which I'll put miles on the car suggests diesel. :-\
Sadly the polestar is well out of reach (no discount - I asked).
Nice car Jimmy but have you not heard the diesel 'death knell'? It has been pretty loud of late and will only get louder.
My guess is that the money saved on fuel will be as nothing compared to the depreciation.
Very attractive car though.
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You could get the Polestar remap :y a little more poke and warranties intact 8)
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Nice choice :y
I'd get leather and wood trim options 8)
Engine?
I sincerely hope it runs on proper fuel.
Yeah you don't want a diesel, not when doing 30k a year. ::). Seriously? 30,000 miles a year, you want derv. You get this..
(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii177/tunnie_84/VW-CC/2FA13656-E6B9-4C97-B222-B2813E1ABA34.jpg)
(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii177/tunnie_84/VW-CC/2EEDDAA4-795B-468A-AED8-21446E901810.jpg)
Would you run your XF-R if you had to fill it up twice a week?
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Nice choice :y
I'd get leather and wood trim options 8)
Engine?
I sincerely hope it runs on proper fuel.
Yeah you don't want a diesel, not when doing 30k a year. ::) . Seriously? 30,000 miles a year, you want derv. You get this..
Seriously? I wouldn't be doing 30k miles a year(and I have, several times) in a car worth more than £1000. Which means there is no way that a diesel is viable. I'd spend about £500 on a mid-sized petrol engined Astra, do a cambelt service and just drive it. The massive saving on buying a newer car, paying for it, and the depreciation would buy a really nice toy. Each year.
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...and spend all time fixing a 500'quid car. Not everyone wants to drive a such an old banger, I definitely would not if doing nearly 600 miles a week.
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Took a trip out this afternoon to see what could be done about the BMW's replacement and ended up at the Volvo dealership. :o
I took a test drive in a V60 "estate" (read reasonably generous hatchback) and was really really inpressed. The seats are the comfiest I have ever say in in a car and the refinement was excellent. Then the subject of discounts came up.
It turns out they do a rather nice deal if you're a chartered accountant (bizarre I know) which amounted to about £6k off the list price - which is about what online comparisons would give you, 3yrs/54k free servicing, free metallic paint, free extended warranty to 5yrs/100k. :)
I haven't signed on the dotted line yet but tbh I think it's more or less a foregone conclusion :y
Also saves. 50page thread discussing the options :P
PS. I did some working out and even driving nearly 30k a year, the tax on company cars is just too draconian.
Have you done the carwow.co.uk thing on it? Sometimes it gets you 25%+ off list from some desperate to sell car dealer in Hull...
Edited to add : and that ^ is bullshit.
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A quick glance at the title of the thread and I thought it read "seized up the BMW`s replacement" and though this guy is really unlucky ;D
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...and spend all time fixing a 500'quid car. Not everyone wants to drive a such an old banger, I definitely would not if doing nearly 600 miles a week.
Why would you need to spend all the time fixing it? That's why I would pick something common and ordinary. £200 in parts and a Saturday afternoon would see it sorted for 3 or 4 years. That won't pay for an oil change to keep the service book up to date on a newer diesel car. Which you would need to do to keep some value in it. And I don't find that a 15 year old every-day car is any worse to spend time in than a new one. In some ways they're better, comfortable suspension no longer seems to be a priority which is one of the things I detest about the original Focus.
This sort of transport is a tool; bright shiny badges and a newish number plate are not worth the massive amount of money that they cost.
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Nice choice :y
I'd get leather and wood trim options 8)
Engine?
I sincerely hope it runs on proper fuel.
Yeah you don't want a diesel, not when doing 30k a year. ::). Seriously? 30,000 miles a year, you want derv. You get this..
(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii177/tunnie_84/VW-CC/2FA13656-E6B9-4C97-B222-B2813E1ABA34.jpg)
(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii177/tunnie_84/VW-CC/2EEDDAA4-795B-468A-AED8-21446E901810.jpg)
Would you run your XF-R if you had to fill it up twice a week?
I have two of those. The one in the Signum shows 27 MPG over the last 16000 miles. The one in the XFR shows 21.9 MPG over the last 3000 miles. ;)
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Nice choice :y
I'd get leather and wood trim options 8)
Engine?
I sincerely hope it runs on proper fuel.
Yeah you don't want a diesel, not when doing 30k a year. ::). Seriously? 30,000 miles a year, you want derv. You get this..
(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii177/tunnie_84/VW-CC/2FA13656-E6B9-4C97-B222-B2813E1ABA34.jpg)
(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii177/tunnie_84/VW-CC/2EEDDAA4-795B-468A-AED8-21446E901810.jpg)
Would you run your XF-R if you had to fill it up twice a week?
No... YOU get that. The same person who gets economy figures 50% better than any other driver here ;)
Would I buy a diesel? Quite possibly, if the right one were to come up.
Would I buy it just for economy figures? Hell no! Because at some point it will need some very, very expensive maintenance.
I'm with Nick, hence why instead of claiming on the insurance and rushing out for another car I'm going to put my other £700 Omega on the road after spending the money on a new rad and a cam belt kit. Once that's done I can swap everything I want over from my smashed one at my leisure :y
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Have you done the carwow.co.uk thing on it? Sometimes it gets you 25%+ off list from some desperate to sell car dealer in Hull...
Edited to add : and that ^ is bullshit.
Yeah, Car Wow got nowhere near, broadspeed and coast to coast got to within £100, however the free met paint, warranty and servicing weren't on that (whether you'd get them running round or not I'm not sure).
That deal is called the affiliate scheme I think, applies to loads of clubs/associations. Seems slightly better than the max discount readily available.
Seriously? I wouldn't be doing 30k miles a year(and I have, several times) in a car worth more than £1000. Which means there is no way that a diesel is viable. I'd spend about £500 on a mid-sized petrol engined Astra, do a cambelt service and just drive it. The massive saving on buying a newer car, paying for it, and the depreciation would buy a really nice toy. Each year.
True, but you are also sitting 3-4hrs a day in a £1000 Astra. I used to do this a few years ago, although it was a £1400 Rover 45. I don't fancy doing that again.
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The only time I have done a fair amount of travelling was going from Leeds to Catterick and back for three and a half years, 620 miles a week in a £200 24v Senator with 2 passengers :y
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Seriously? I wouldn't be doing 30k miles a year(and I have, several times) in a car worth more than £1000. Which means there is no way that a diesel is viable. I'd spend about £500 on a mid-sized petrol engined Astra, do a cambelt service and just drive it. The massive saving on buying a newer car, paying for it, and the depreciation would buy a really nice toy. Each year.
True, but you are also sitting 3-4hrs a day in a £1000 Astra. I used to do this a few years ago, although it was a £1400 Rover 45. I don't fancy doing that again.
I've done it in a £20 Capri(and other slightly more expensive ones!), and a £25 Cortina. One of my requirements for a car for this sort of use would be a good interior; as I said, I don't find new cars any better to be in. This can be done for less than £500, but it takes effort and some luck.
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Nice choice :y
I'd get leather and wood trim options 8)
Engine?
I sincerely hope it runs on proper fuel.
Yeah you don't want a diesel, not when doing 30k a year. ::). Seriously? 30,000 miles a year, you want derv. You get this..
Would you run your XF-R if you had to fill it up twice a week?
No... YOU get that. The same person who gets economy figures 50% better than any other driver here ;)
Nah, it's just that some people think a throttle is either on or off, nothing in between. ;)
Can get mid 50's average with cruise set at 80, yet when I drive the 3.2 I can barley crack 22mpg average ::)
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Which is odd considering I used to get 27 MPG out of my 3.2 on a back-roads commute. :-\
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Which is odd considering I used to get 27 MPG out of my 3.2 on a back-roads commute. :-\
27 if I'm lucky on a motorway run, e.g. down the M3 to Kingston.
Normal commute if I take it, 24 ish. But I can easily get it down to 22 average.
I should run it as my daily, then if I get a V8, I would not notice much difference ;D
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Perhaps Jimmy is being offered an exceptional deal on a diesel car because the dealers are aware that people are moving away from derv in ever increasing numbers.
They need to shift them. A used derv for a couple of thousand like James has bought may be a reasonable proposition, but a brand new one....... :-\ :-\ :'(
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Perhaps Jimmy is being offered an exceptional deal on a diesel car because the dealers are aware that people are moving away from derv in ever increasing numbers.
They need to shift them. A used derv for a couple of thousand like James has bought may be a reasonable proposition, but a brand new one....... :-\ :-\ :'(
What if you had to fill up your XF-R twice a week, every week, would you still run a petrol? :)
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Perhaps Jimmy is being offered an exceptional deal on a diesel car because the dealers are aware that people are moving away from derv in ever increasing numbers.
They need to shift them. A used derv for a couple of thousand like James has bought may be a reasonable proposition, but a brand new one....... :-\ :-\ :'(
What if you had to fill up your XF-R twice a week, every week, would you still run a petrol? :)
I'd buy a Tesla P100D.........and overlay a nice Detroit V8 sound to cover the sound of empty milk bottles. :y
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Perhaps Jimmy is being offered an exceptional deal on a diesel car because the dealers are aware that people are moving away from derv in ever increasing numbers.
They need to shift them. A used derv for a couple of thousand like James has bought may be a reasonable proposition, but a brand new one....... :-\ :-\ :'(
What if you had to fill up your XF-R twice a week, every week, would you still run a petrol? :)
I'd buy a Tesla P100D.........and overlay a nice Detroit V8 sound to cover the sound of empty milk bottles. :y
and in the real world.... ::)
I think Jimmy looked at this and could not make it work. :)
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Perhaps Jimmy is being offered an exceptional deal on a diesel car because the dealers are aware that people are moving away from derv in ever increasing numbers.
They need to shift them. A used derv for a couple of thousand like James has bought may be a reasonable proposition, but a brand new one....... :-\ :-\ :'(
What if you had to fill up your XF-R twice a week, every week, would you still run a petrol? :)
I'd buy a Tesla P100D.........and overlay a nice Detroit V8 sound to cover the sound of empty milk bottles. :y
and in the real world.... ::)
I think Jimmy looked at this and could not make it work. :)
Model: Tesla Model S P100D
Price: £129,400
Not sure many people who need to drive 30k a year, would spend £130k on a car ;D
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and in the real world.... ::)
I think Jimmy looked at this and could not make it work. :)
I did, I couldn't even get it to work with a second hand P70 at a paultry £49,000. Not helped by their dismal finance rates :P.
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and in the real world.... ::)
I think Jimmy looked at this and could not make it work. :)
I did, I couldn't even get it to work with a second hand P70 at a paultry £49,000. Not helped by their dismal finance rates :P.
Lord Opti only drives 5 miles a week I think, he can't understand why people need something that does more than 20mpg ;D
For finance I'll probably just go to Tesco or something, for the 3.2's replacement, easily get 3.4% APR on a 3 year loan.
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Yup, that's what I'm doing, a NatWest loan for the max deposit at 3.9% and the balance on PCP (deal is contingent on finance as always) at 4.9%, will then settle the finance 6months and 1 day after I took it out (to avoid penalties).
Resale value doesn't worry me, the first 4yrs/100k is under GFV, if it's proved itself reliable then I'll pay the bullet and run'er into the ground.
I figure the car will be done inside 8-10yrs (250-300k) but I'll have had my monies worth :P
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To be honest chaps I'm not a big fan of 'glorified milk floats'. If I held the reins I would invest in Hydrogen fuel cell. Filling up would take about the same time as it takes to fill a car with petrol.
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I'm inclined to agree that hydrogen is the best long term solution for fitting our infrastructure and the way we use motor vehicles. The main issue for me is that AFAIK (and very willing to stand corrected) the only way to get hydrogen on a large scale ATM is as a byproduct of the petrochemical industry. Which doesn't really help the situation :-\
I am of course aware that most of the electricity we produce comes from black stuff dug out of the ground.
I came to the conclusion with electric cars that (with the arguable exception of a nearly new i3 range extender) they don't actually make any financial sense at this point against either a new(ish) diesel or small capacity petrol. Other than to make a statement about one's mis-placed love of the polar bear ;).
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I'm inclined to agree that hydrogen is the best long term solution for fitting our infrastructure and the way we use motor vehicles. The main issue for me is that AFAIK (and very willing to stand corrected) the only way to get hydrogen on a large scale ATM is as a byproduct of the petrochemical industry. Which doesn't really help the situation :-\
I am of course aware that most of the electricity we produce comes from black stuff dug out of the ground.
I came to the conclusion with electric cars that (with the arguable exception of a nearly new i3 range extender) they don't actually make any financial sense at this point against either a new(ish) diesel or small capacity petrol. Other than to make a statement about one's mis-placed love of the polar bear ;).
Jimmy......there must be a petrol turbo that does the job of a turbo diesel for the same cost and with hopefully far less depreciation.
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I was looking at Nissan Leaf's on AutoTrader, use prices now appear reasonable. £7k gets you a half decent one, I did wonder for MrsT as lot of miles is town and to her sisters so easily within the range.
But I'd want to rent the batteries, as they have limited life. Looking at £70/m just for that, before you factor in charging. (which would be cheap)
So even with mixed town/city driving, still looks like a diesel is on the cards for our next family car.
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and in the real world.... ::)
I think Jimmy looked at this and could not make it work. :)
I did, I couldn't even get it to work with a second hand P70 at a paultry £49,000. Not helped by their dismal finance rates :P.
Buy new... rates are much better, order a P60 now before it gets axed and upgrade it to a 75 when you can afford it... it's an over the air upgrade, (but I doubt it is free) ;)
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I was looking at Nissan Leaf's on AutoTrader, use prices now appear reasonable. £7k gets you a half decent one, I did wonder for MrsT as lot of miles is town and to her sisters so easily within the range.
But I'd want to rent the batteries, as they have limited life. Looking at £70/m just for that, before you factor in charging. (which would be cheap)
So even with mixed town/city driving, still looks like a diesel is on the cards for our next family car.
These are pretty old tech now. However, that may make them more affordable if electric cars are your bag.
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I was looking at Nissan Leaf's on AutoTrader, use prices now appear reasonable. £7k gets you a half decent one, I did wonder for MrsT as lot of miles is town and to her sisters so easily within the range.
But I'd want to rent the batteries, as they have limited life. Looking at £70/m just for that, before you factor in charging. (which would be cheap)
So even with mixed town/city driving, still looks like a diesel is on the cards for our next family car.
That would pay for itself... £150 per month in fuel vs £70 for batteries and about £10 in electricity...
You could then use the other £70 to buy her something nice ;)
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I was looking at Nissan Leaf's on AutoTrader, use prices now appear reasonable. £7k gets you a half decent one, I did wonder for MrsT as lot of miles is town and to her sisters so easily within the range.
But I'd want to rent the batteries, as they have limited life. Looking at £70/m just for that, before you factor in charging. (which would be cheap)
So even with mixed town/city driving, still looks like a diesel is on the cards for our next family car.
That would pay for itself... £150 per month in fuel vs £70 for batteries and about £10 in electricity...
You could then use the other £70 to buy her something nice ;)
Is that £70 a month for the car and batteries, or just the batteries?
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Just the batteries, the alternative is buying, but they cost a damn sight more than £7k ;)
Renting actually makes sense second hand...
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I'm not sure if they offer battery rental on second hand purchase?
I'd then get a big estate for longer distance trips
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I'm not sure if they offer battery rental on second hand purchase?
I'd then get a big estate for longer distance trips
According to your initial post they do... ::)
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Quick Google suggests it's a mine field, some cars come with "Flex", where the battery is rented, the rental comes with the car. (apparently massively affects re-sale value, for the worse) - Others you own the car and battery out-right. Lots of combinations of power/charging etc, but forums suggest not to take rental versions (flex) by the car outright.
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Which is odd considering I used to get 27 MPG out of my 3.2 on a back-roads commute. :-\
Indeed. I only used to get those sort of figures around town and I know I'm heavier on the throttle than Tunnie ::)
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Quick Google suggests it's a mine field, some cars come with "Flex", where the battery is rented, the rental comes with the car. (apparently massively affects re-sale value, for the worse) - Others you own the car and battery out-right. Lots of combinations of power/charging etc, but forums suggest not to take rental versions (flex) by the car outright.
Is that perhaps a bit of a short-termist (not a word, I know) view? To me, the benefits of battery rental would come later i.e. When your owned battery starts to dip in performance or fails. Then again, I wonder what (if any) commitment Nissan have made to supplying you a battery long term? Presumably the battery rental agreement isn't a perpetual contract... would be a total nightmare to have a leaf but no battery to put in it.
A minefield indeed!
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Tesla P60 while you still can ::)
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Tesla P60 while you still can ::)
Yep....I reckon Jimmy isn't short of a few bob. :)......better still a P100D.
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Tesla P60 while you still can ::)
Yep....I reckon Jimmy isn't short of a few bob. :)......better still a P100D.
Jimmy may or may not be :P. However jimmy also isn't short of loans, student debt and an eye watering mortgage. All things not normally associated with your average P100D owner ;). Once those are looking in some kind of better shape...
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Pcp or hp depending on mileage costs...
https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/support/personal-contract-purchase-model-s
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Pcp or hp depending on mileage costs...
https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/support/personal-contract-purchase-model-s
Terrible deal that, no wonder Jimmy passed up on it.
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Can get mid 50's average with cruise set at 80, yet when I drive the 3.2 I can barley crack 22mpg average ::)
I know for a fact that my 3.2 has returned exactly 30mpg, 4 adults with luggauge, on a run back from Tenby to Oxford, M40 and A34. Clear roads meant the speed was rarely below 80mph, and there were some high speed stints as well. So I do honestly disbelieve you're averaging 22mpg when on a 80mph cruise.
The 3.2 ain't economical, but it ain't nowhere near as bad as you're trying to make out... ...again, I feel you are trying to justify some maths to yourself.
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Pcp or hp depending on mileage costs...
https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/support/personal-contract-purchase-model-s
Terrible deal that, no wonder Jimmy passed up on it.
It's a £57k list price, so not sure how you define terrible ::)
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Tunnie...Do you suggest that all omega owners should now scrap there cars and get down the main dealers and sign up,,cos your tone seems to have changed so much on here over the last 18 months :-\
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Can get mid 50's average with cruise set at 80, yet when I drive the 3.2 I can barley crack 22mpg average ::)
I know for a fact that my 3.2 has returned exactly 30mpg, 4 adults with luggauge, on a run back from Tenby to Oxford, M40 and A34. Clear roads meant the speed was rarely below 80mph, and there were some high speed stints as well. So I do honestly disbelieve you're averaging 22mpg when on a 80mph cruise.
The 3.2 ain't economical, but it ain't nowhere near as bad as you're trying to make out... ...again, I feel you are trying to justify some maths to yourself.
Never see more than 24 out of a commute, I might take it to work on Wednesday. No justification needed, it's always been appalling on fuel.
Pcp or hp depending on mileage costs...
https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/support/personal-contract-purchase-model-s
Terrible deal that, no wonder Jimmy passed up on it.
It's a £57k list price, so not sure how you define terrible ::)
Err double the interest rate I'd pay, low miles, huge deposit. (Which would also need finance)
Tunnie...Do you suggest that all omega owners should now scrap there cars and get down the main dealers and sign up,,cos your tone seems to have changed so much on here over the last 18 months :-\
Main dealer, no. ???
But they are all getting old now, rust will kill them all off soon. I've just driven newer cars which are better and I no longer have time to maintain cars. I'm not the only one to do it, many have moved on in past year or so, they tend to leave though.
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Can get mid 50's average with cruise set at 80, yet when I drive the 3.2 I can barley crack 22mpg average ::)
I know for a fact that my 3.2 has returned exactly 30mpg, 4 adults with luggauge, on a run back from Tenby to Oxford, M40 and A34. Clear roads meant the speed was rarely below 80mph, and there were some high speed stints as well. So I do honestly disbelieve you're averaging 22mpg when on a 80mph cruise.
The 3.2 ain't economical, but it ain't nowhere near as bad as you're trying to make out... ...again, I feel you are trying to justify some maths to yourself.
Never see more than 24 out of a commute, I might take it to work on Wednesday. No justification needed, it's always been appalling on fuel.
I'm with Tunnie on this one. My daily commute is a round trip of 30 miles. The first mile is town driving, the rest is all 'A' roads, and obviously the reverse on the way home. I'm only going by the on-board thingy but no matter how steady I drive I never see an average of more than 22mpg at the end of the week. :-\
The only time that I see an average of 30mpg is when I'm on a constant motorway run, and only then if I've cheated and reset the on-board thingy as I enter the motorway. :)
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I think that its all down to personal circumstances, I don't think anyone is knocking the choice to run an old car. It would be immenseley hypocritical in my case to do so, given I have for over 15yrs, up until last year, never run a car under about 10yrs old. However, the balance of needs and wants changes over time. For me, the next step up in career means I'll:
a) have very little headspace for anything else,
b) be doing a lot of miles
c) be taking a substantial car allowance (doesn't look good receiving £5-10k/yr to run a £500 car)
d) be meeting with a number of board-level types on a regular basis
Now, none of these things preclude running an old car per se. However they do shift the balance away from it towards something new or new-ish.
The cost of running a new V60 over 100k & 4yrs is about £5000 + 48*350 = 21,800 + 12,150 in diesel = £33,950, a "nearly new" s80 on a bank loan would be £16,700 + 11,350 + 1800 (servicing) + 880 (volvo warranty) = £30,730 (assuming a conservative residual of £3k). Running my omega would mean £19,450 in fuel, plus servicing and unexpected repairs at £150 p.a. (likely to be more in reality) = £20,050. So it will cost me about £10-14k over 3yrs, or £210-280 per month to run a new (or nearly new) car. That also assumes the most expensive of everything, full volvo warranty, main dealer servicing etc etc. And assuming nothing goes wrong with the Omega in that time (80-180k, probably a slightly optimistic assumption). In my judgement, this is a worthwhile cost.
Yes, I could LPG the omega, but am I realistically going to finish a 9-10hr day, drive 1.5hrs home and then go looking for LPG? Unlikely in my case. And the limited range would mean that every 1.5-2 days I'd be filling up. The diesel will go a full week in the summer, 4 days in the winter.
The starting premise is not, what is cheapest to run, as I suspect the answer would be a 406 diesel running on Farm Foods veg oil. ::). The starting premise (for me) is that I want to run a newer car, for a lot of miles, thats auto, has acceptable performance (8s ish or less to 60, with decent mid-range shove). Within those boundaries, the V60/s60/S80 seems the best option. :y
For the record, my desmond auto has settled on 28mpg over the average tank. I can average 31-32 over a tank, but I'm left wanting to shoot myself.
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Can get mid 50's average with cruise set at 80, yet when I drive the 3.2 I can barley crack 22mpg average ::)
I know for a fact that my 3.2 has returned exactly 30mpg, 4 adults with luggauge, on a run back from Tenby to Oxford, M40 and A34. Clear roads meant the speed was rarely below 80mph, and there were some high speed stints as well. So I do honestly disbelieve you're averaging 22mpg when on a 80mph cruise.
The 3.2 ain't economical, but it ain't nowhere near as bad as you're trying to make out... ...again, I feel you are trying to justify some maths to yourself.
Never see more than 24 out of a commute, I might take it to work on Wednesday. No justification needed, it's always been appalling on fuel.
I'm with Tunnie on this one. My daily commute is a round trip of 30 miles. The first mile is town driving, the rest is all 'A' roads, and obviously the reverse on the way home. I'm only going by the on-board thingy but no matter how steady I drive I never see an average of more than 22mpg at the end of the week. :-\
The only time that I see an average of 30mpg is when I'm on a constant motorway run, and only then if I've cheated and reset the on-board thingy as I enter the motorway. :)
Same here, I can get 30mpg as within a few miles I'm on the M3, it's also 50mph average. But once on the M25 and off down Heathrow way it's back in the mid 20's. By the time I'm home again, 22-24 ish.
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I think that its all down to personal circumstances, I don't think anyone is knocking the choice to run an old car. It would be immenseley hypocritical in my case to do so, given I have for over 15yrs, up until last year, never run a car under about 10yrs old. However, the balance of needs and wants changes over time. For me, the next step up in career means I'll:
a) have very little headspace for anything else,
b) be doing a lot of miles
c) be taking a substantial car allowance (doesn't look good receiving £5-10k/yr to run a £500 car)
d) be meeting with a number of board-level types on a regular basis
Now, none of these things preclude running an old car per se. However they do shift the balance away from it towards something new or new-ish.
The cost of running a new V60 over 100k & 4yrs is about £5000 + 48*350 = 21,800 + 12,150 in diesel = £33,950, a "nearly new" s80 on a bank loan would be £16,700 + 11,350 + 1800 (servicing) + 880 (volvo warranty) = £30,730 (assuming a conservative residual of £3k). Running my omega would mean £19,450 in fuel, plus servicing and unexpected repairs at £150 p.a. (likely to be more in reality) = £20,050. So it will cost me about £10-14k over 3yrs, or £210-280 per month to run a new (or nearly new) car. That also assumes the most expensive of everything, full volvo warranty, main dealer servicing etc etc. And assuming nothing goes wrong with the Omega in that time (80-180k, probably a slightly optimistic assumption). In my judgement, this is a worthwhile cost.
Yes, I could LPG the omega, but am I realistically going to finish a 9-10hr day, drive 1.5hrs home and then go looking for LPG? Unlikely in my case. And the limited range would mean that every 1.5-2 days I'd be filling up. The diesel will go a full week in the summer, 4 days in the winter.
The starting premise is not, what is cheapest to run, as I suspect the answer would be a 406 diesel running on Farm Foods veg oil. ::). The starting premise (for me) is that I want to run a newer car, for a lot of miles, thats auto, has acceptable performance (8s ish or less to 60, with decent mid-range shove). Within those boundaries, the V60/s60/S80 seems the best option. :y
For the record, my desmond auto has settled on 28mpg over the average tank. I can average 31-32 over a tank, but I'm left wanting to shoot myself.
TBH, Jimmy, I'd just get what I wanted to get and wouldn't take a blind bit of notice what anyone else said. But that's just me :)
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In my recent search for a large booted petrol estate, I sat in a Volvo, and must agree regards comfort. Unfortunately they don't do a model that suits. :(
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Don't fear old chap.
Given that taking advice on here would leave me either (still) in the omega, or in a V8 saloon of British origin, I'll pass.
However, as he thread descended (as is right proper and inevitable on here) into a new vs old thread, I thought I would post my reasoning. :).
In fact, a big part of my indecision about cars is the over-analysis I tend to engage in. So it was good to let it all out :P
Shackeng: tbh I don't think they really sell a "proper" estate at all these days, not since the demise of the V70. Oh and petrols are like rocking horse poo which limits you further. The V60 has a tiny load space, genuinely not much more than my 1 series with the parcel shelf removed.
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The 2017 Volvo V90 T8 looks a decent car with a reasonable amount of power :y
Big price tag though...
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However, as he thread descended (as is right proper and inevitable on here) into a new vs old thread, I thought I would post my reasoning. :).
I did exactly the same maths (extensively, for about 12 different cars! ;D) when I moved to Northampton .. and that's also precisely why I'm now driving the brand new (well, not anymore!) Skoda Superb as opposed to another Omega (one of the 12 I did the maths for) or just driving the 645ci into the ground (which, even counting it as a 0 purchase cost would still have cost more!)
Plus .. shiny! new! toys! new car smell! etc ;)
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The 2017 Volvo V90 T8 looks a decent car with a reasonable amount of power :y
Big price tag though...
I like the direction Volvo are going, new XC90 and V90's are super comfy and great interiors. Think V90 in around 3-5 years will be a great second hand buy.
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How about the XC60?
You can get a well specced one with about 10,000 on the clock for £25k .....
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I really like them, again amazingly comfortable. But the shape and the permanent awd mean that performance and mpg both take a bit of a battering.
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I really like them, again amazingly comfortable. But the shape and the permanent awd mean that performance and mpg both take a bit of a battering.
There is a FWD only XC60 available .......
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I think that its all down to personal circumstances, I don't think anyone is knocking the choice to run an old car. It would be immenseley hypocritical in my case to do so, given I have for over 15yrs, up until last year, never run a car under about 10yrs old. However, the balance of needs and wants changes over time. For me, the next step up in career means I'll:
a) have very little headspace for anything else,
b) be doing a lot of miles
c) be taking a substantial car allowance (doesn't look good receiving £5-10k/yr to run a £500 car)
d) be meeting with a number of board-level types on a regular basis
Now, none of these things preclude running an old car per se. However they do shift the balance away from it towards something new or new-ish.
The cost of running a new V60 over 100k & 4yrs is about £5000 + 48*350 = 21,800 + 12,150 in diesel = £33,950, a "nearly new" s80 on a bank loan would be £16,700 + 11,350 + 1800 (servicing) + 880 (volvo warranty) = £30,730 (assuming a conservative residual of £3k). Running my omega would mean £19,450 in fuel, plus servicing and unexpected repairs at £150 p.a. (likely to be more in reality) = £20,050. So it will cost me about £10-14k over 3yrs, or £210-280 per month to run a new (or nearly new) car. That also assumes the most expensive of everything, full volvo warranty, main dealer servicing etc etc. And assuming nothing goes wrong with the Omega in that time (80-180k, probably a slightly optimistic assumption). In my judgement, this is a worthwhile cost.
Yes, I could LPG the omega, but am I realistically going to finish a 9-10hr day, drive 1.5hrs home and then go looking for LPG? Unlikely in my case. And the limited range would mean that every 1.5-2 days I'd be filling up. The diesel will go a full week in the summer, 4 days in the winter.
The starting premise is not, what is cheapest to run, as I suspect the answer would be a 406 diesel running on Farm Foods veg oil. ::). The starting premise (for me) is that I want to run a newer car, for a lot of miles, thats auto, has acceptable performance (8s ish or less to 60, with decent mid-range shove). Within those boundaries, the V60/s60/S80 seems the best option. :y
For the record, my desmond auto has settled on 28mpg over the average tank. I can average 31-32 over a tank, but I'm left wanting to shoot myself.
Board-level types?
Unfortunately I only know ne'er do wells most of which spend the day scratching their arse as they post on here. ;)
I can't argue with your logic and pragmatism Jimmy. It looks like Aaron uses the same formula when deciding on which car to spend his money on.
I can also be practical but only when buying 'white goods'. I always make sure I get the best deal when buying the most capacious and energy friendly fridge. :y
However, cars should stir the emotions and make you feel good. The James May testicular 'fizz' comes to mind. ;)
Being practical has it's place, but heart ruling the head is usually more fun.......(until it all goes tits up and costs you a fortune) ;)
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However, as he thread descended (as is right proper and inevitable on here) into a new vs old thread, I thought I would post my reasoning. :).
I did exactly the same maths (extensively, for about 12 different cars! ;D) when I moved to Northampton .. and that's also precisely why I'm now driving the brand new (well, not anymore!) Skoda Superb as opposed to another Omega (one of the 12 I did the maths for) or just driving the 645ci into the ground (which, even counting it as a 0 purchase cost would still have cost more!)
Plus .. shiny! new! toys! new car smell! etc ;)
I assumed the '04 BMW 'was your M3.
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I assumed the '04 BMW 'was your M3.
Nope - I got rid of that a while back (but not before I'd fixed the SMG-II pump at £300 and radiator fan at £400) and replaced it with something with a V8 soundtrack ;)
Which has since become slightly incontinent with its coolant..
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They do that ::)
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Board-level types?
Unfortunately I only know ne'er do wells most of which spend the day scratching their arse as they post on here. ;)
The new job is to head up the Internal Audit function of a uk retailer. Basically this means I will (with some regularity) be summoned to appear before various Board, Audit and God-knows-what Committees. Usually to explain someone else's balls-up (and hopefully not my own!).
Such shindigs always seem to involve an element of car sharing somewhere along the line - an excuse for a 1-2hr private meeting on the way to another meeting ::). It's a responsibility I have consistently ducked in my current job as it involved either putting people in the Mig; cobwebs, cement dust and all or shoe-horning them into the back of a 1 series.
It's a role I didn't think I'd be able to land for another 3-5yrs and it's now tantalising close. Hence the shifting of my cash-time balance. It will also probably preclude me from spending most of the day scratching my ar$e and posting on the OOF :P
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However, as he thread descended (as is right proper and inevitable on here) into a new vs old thread, I thought I would post my reasoning. :).
I did exactly the same maths (extensively, for about 12 different cars! ;D) when I moved to Northampton .. and that's also precisely why I'm now driving the brand new (well, not anymore!) Skoda Superb as opposed to another Omega (one of the 12 I did the maths for) or just driving the 645ci into the ground (which, even counting it as a 0 purchase cost would still have cost more!)
Plus .. shiny! new! toys! new car smell! etc ;)
I'm highlighting this because I appear to be the one getting "stick" for daring suggesting newer cars that need less work, "changing my tune" etc, not running old Omega's or running another petrol into the ground :o ;D ::)
I like the Superb very much, I think the Estates are good looking as well. But the wife though says no, as soon as I mention Skoda :D
So it's back to Zafira Tourers :(
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They do that ::)
Indeed! I am hoping it's the expansion tank (common) rather than the transfer pipe through the middle of the vee under the inlet manifold (also common) ;D
And tunnie - tell her you wear the trousers and she'll drive a Skoda and like it! ;)
Oddly enough Facebook decided it was time to remind me of a memory from 5 years ago, this morning - the Omega (the 3.2) and my MR2 parked on my driveway. I do still miss both cars, the Omega was a great, comfortable cruiser (Elite so also a barge!) and I'd have another one if I did a lot less miles and wanted to spend my time repairing all the cars I own instead of just one while trying to build another ;D
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Can get mid 50's average with cruise set at 80, yet when I drive the 3.2 I can barley crack 22mpg average ::)
I know for a fact that my 3.2 has returned exactly 30mpg, 4 adults with luggauge, on a run back from Tenby to Oxford, M40 and A34. Clear roads meant the speed was rarely below 80mph, and there were some high speed stints as well. So I do honestly disbelieve you're averaging 22mpg when on a 80mph cruise.
The 3.2 ain't economical, but it ain't nowhere near as bad as you're trying to make out... ...again, I feel you are trying to justify some maths to yourself.
Never see more than 24 out of a commute, I might take it to work on Wednesday. No justification needed, it's always been appalling on fuel.
That's not what you said, you were saying the Passat managed xyzMPG on an 80mph cruise, and the 3.2 would only do 22mpg. On an 80mph cruise, the 3.2 - as YZ250 confirms - will achieve 30+ mpg.
Given that both myself (on petrol) and YZ250 get around 23mpg day to day, I'm surprised you don't get more (given YZ250 and I "don't hang about"), but then every commute is different.
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Can get mid 50's average with cruise set at 80, yet when I drive the 3.2 I can barley crack 22mpg average ::)
I know for a fact that my 3.2 has returned exactly 30mpg, 4 adults with luggauge, on a run back from Tenby to Oxford, M40 and A34. Clear roads meant the speed was rarely below 80mph, and there were some high speed stints as well. So I do honestly disbelieve you're averaging 22mpg when on a 80mph cruise.
The 3.2 ain't economical, but it ain't nowhere near as bad as you're trying to make out... ...again, I feel you are trying to justify some maths to yourself.
Never see more than 24 out of a commute, I might take it to work on Wednesday. No justification needed, it's always been appalling on fuel.
That's not what you said, you were saying the Passat managed xyzMPG on an 80mph cruise, and the 3.2 would only do 22mpg. On an 80mph cruise, the 3.2 - as YZ250 confirms - will achieve 30+ mpg.
Given that both myself (on petrol) and YZ250 get around 23mpg day to day, I'm surprised you don't get more (given YZ250 and I "don't hang about"), but then every commute is different.
Could this be the moment dawning, that I do drive like everyone else and the 3.2 is just terrible on fuel :o ;D
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525i does 22.9 mpg as an average on my commute... and will do 35 on a steady run.
Hoping it's replacement will crack at least 20 and 25 respectively.
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Can get mid 50's average with cruise set at 80, yet when I drive the 3.2 I can barley crack 22mpg average ::)
I know for a fact that my 3.2 has returned exactly 30mpg, 4 adults with luggauge, on a run back from Tenby to Oxford, M40 and A34. Clear roads meant the speed was rarely below 80mph, and there were some high speed stints as well. So I do honestly disbelieve you're averaging 22mpg when on a 80mph cruise.
The 3.2 ain't economical, but it ain't nowhere near as bad as you're trying to make out... ...again, I feel you are trying to justify some maths to yourself.
Never see more than 24 out of a commute, I might take it to work on Wednesday. No justification needed, it's always been appalling on fuel.
That's not what you said, you were saying the Passat managed xyzMPG on an 80mph cruise, and the 3.2 would only do 22mpg. On an 80mph cruise, the 3.2 - as YZ250 confirms - will achieve 30+ mpg.
Given that both myself (on petrol) and YZ250 get around 23mpg day to day, I'm surprised you don't get more (given YZ250 and I "don't hang about"), but then every commute is different.
Could this be the moment dawning, that I do drive like everyone else and the 3.2 is just terrible on fuel :o ;D
Nope. See my comment about getting 27 MPG on a commute. :P
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My white one used to see 27-28 as a regular average, the black one around 23-24 but I didn't hang around and my commute was 23 miles, of which 2 miles is less than NSL, and 12 miles of dual carriageway with 23 roundabouts.
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My white one used to see 27-28 as a regular average, the black one around 23-24 but I didn't hang around and my commute was 23 miles, of which 2 miles is less than NSL, and 12 miles of dual carriageway with 23 roundabouts.
My old 2.5 V6 manual averaged 27 mpg in day to day commuting. My 2.6 auto manages 26 mpg.
The first day I drove the project MV6 to work it managed 13mpg :o I have since changed the MAF but the best I can eke out of it is 22mpg :(
I had thought that the mpg from the 3.2 would be similar to what I was familiar with in the 2.6 but I am starting to lose confidence :-\
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My white one used to see 27-28 as a regular average, the black one around 23-24 but I didn't hang around and my commute was 23 miles, of which 2 miles is less than NSL, and 12 miles of dual carriageway with 23 roundabouts.
My old 2.5 V6 manual averaged 27 mpg in day to day commuting. My 2.6 auto manages 26 mpg.
The first day I drove the project MV6 to work it managed 13mpg :o I have since changed the MAF but the best I can eke out of it is 22mpg :(
I had thought that the mpg from the 3.2 would be similar to what I was familiar with in the 2.6 but I am starting to lose confidence :-\
No, given your 26mpg from 2.6, I think 3 or 4mpg less for the 3.2 is about right.
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My white one used to see 27-28 as a regular average, the black one around 23-24 but I didn't hang around and my commute was 23 miles, of which 2 miles is less than NSL, and 12 miles of dual carriageway with 23 roundabouts.
My old 2.5 V6 manual averaged 27 mpg in day to day commuting. My 2.6 auto manages 26 mpg.
The first day I drove the project MV6 to work it managed 13mpg :o I have since changed the MAF but the best I can eke out of it is 22mpg :(
I had thought that the mpg from the 3.2 would be similar to what I was familiar with in the 2.6 but I am starting to lose confidence :-\
No, given your 26mpg from 2.6, I think 3 or 4mpg less for the 3.2 is about right.
I took 3.2 to work today, was not trying to be economical or quick, averaged 21.9
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My white one used to see 27-28 as a regular average, the black one around 23-24 but I didn't hang around and my commute was 23 miles, of which 2 miles is less than NSL, and 12 miles of dual carriageway with 23 roundabouts.
My old 2.5 V6 manual averaged 27 mpg in day to day commuting. My 2.6 auto manages 26 mpg.
The first day I drove the project MV6 to work it managed 13mpg :o I have since changed the MAF but the best I can eke out of it is 22mpg :(
I had thought that the mpg from the 3.2 would be similar to what I was familiar with in the 2.6 but I am starting to lose confidence :-\
No, given your 26mpg from 2.6, I think 3 or 4mpg less for the 3.2 is about right.
I took 3.2 to work today, was not trying to be economical or quick, averaged 21.9
I took TBE for a hammering yesterday, to warm up the oil. Not sure, once out of Brakkers, I saw >12mpg on the instantaneous (our default) ;D. Granted, that was gas.
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Brakes stank as well
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I've just been reading up on the new XC60, it has a petrol option. It's called T5, but is a 4pot producing 254bhp, auto only.
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A fine motor to be sure! Father has had a T5 V70 in the past (he has a thing about quick estates and has owned a fair number of them). However, £5,500 a year on petrol is somewhat beyond the pale! :o
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Just buy a fickin car and shut up now.
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A fine motor to be sure! Father has had a T5 V70 in the past (he has a thing about quick estates and has owned a fair number of them). However, £5,500 a year on petrol is somewhat beyond the pale! :o
You want to ask that Opti bloke for money, I understand he is personally financing the demise of diesel. I'm sure he would be happy to chuck a few grand your way, to go petrol :y
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You make an excellent point!
To be honest, the decision is made. Big Volvo, D4, Auto, tasty spec, its either V60 or 1yr old s80 if I find one that's the right spec. The only reason I haven't already done something about is an impending re-mortgage so I don't want to do anything to affect my credit score, or upset the process as its been so bloody painful already.
If I can land the right s80 then it will be that. The loan payments will be £200-250/month more than the pcp on a v60 but I'll own the car outright in 2-2.5yrs. Sadly it looks like it'll have to be Rare Silver though ::). About 1 in 20 seem to be black, however I'll be buggered if I'm washing the thing every verse-end.
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You make an excellent point!
To be honest, the decision is made. Big Volvo, D4, Auto, tasty spec, its either V60 or 1yr old s80 if I find one that's the right spec. The only reason I haven't already done something about is an impending re-mortgage so I don't want to do anything to affect my credit score, or upset the process as its been so bloody painful already.
If I can land the right s80 then it will be that. The loan payments will be £200-250/month more than the pcp on a v60 but I'll own the car outright in 2-2.5yrs. Sadly it looks like it'll have to be Rare Silver though ::). About 1 in 20 seem to be black, however I'll be buggered if I'm washing the thing every verse-end.
You should know, Jimmy, that your credit 'score' means nothing. It's for your eyes only, lenders don't get to see it. It's your payment history and the size of your liabilities that count.
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You make an excellent point!
To be honest, the decision is made. Big Volvo, D4, Auto, tasty spec, its either V60 or 1yr old s80 if I find one that's the right spec. The only reason I haven't already done something about is an impending re-mortgage so I don't want to do anything to affect my credit score, or upset the process as its been so bloody painful already.
If I can land the right s80 then it will be that. The loan payments will be £200-250/month more than the pcp on a v60 but I'll own the car outright in 2-2.5yrs. Sadly it looks like it'll have to be Rare Silver though ::). About 1 in 20 seem to be black, however I'll be buggered if I'm washing the thing every verse-end.
You should know, Jimmy, that your credit 'score' means nothing. It's for your eyes only, lenders don't get to see it. It's your payment history and the size of your liabilities that count.
Is that a polite euphemism for something else? :)
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You make an excellent point!
To be honest, the decision is made. Big Volvo, D4, Auto, tasty spec, its either V60 or 1yr old s80 if I find one that's the right spec. The only reason I haven't already done something about is an impending re-mortgage so I don't want to do anything to affect my credit score, or upset the process as its been so bloody painful already.
If I can land the right s80 then it will be that. The loan payments will be £200-250/month more than the pcp on a v60 but I'll own the car outright in 2-2.5yrs. Sadly it looks like it'll have to be Rare Silver though ::). About 1 in 20 seem to be black, however I'll be buggered if I'm washing the thing every verse-end.
Are we still talking the fuel of Satan, Jimmy? There is still time to repent. :) Don't listen to that Tunnie chappie.
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If I can land the right s80 then it will be that. The loan payments will be £200-250/month more than the pcp on a v60 but I'll own the car outright in 2-2.5yrs. Sadly it looks like it'll have to be Rare Silver though ::). About 1 in 20 seem to be black, however I'll be buggered if I'm washing the thing every verse-end.
This is my thinking as well, at end of the payments you own the car, no further big bill.
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Thought finance was the work of satan in the Tunnie household ::)
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You should know, Jimmy, that your credit 'score' means nothing. It's for your eyes only, lenders don't get to see it. It's your payment history and the size of your liabilities that count.
My understanding was that a credit score is a numerical representation of the tool that lenders use to assess you as a credit risk?
However, as I haven't missed a payment on anything in the last 8yrs or so and have shed a BMW's worth of debt. I think I'll be in reasonable shape.
Finance is a no brainer these days it's so cheap. Once I'm up n running I'll transfer some of the loan onto a credit card. Sainsbury's are currently running a 0% card with 0.9% fee forn33 months. So about 1/3 of a percentage point per yr. so long as you're disciplined about paying it off in time, it's interest free finance.
and yes M'lud, it will be running on lamp oil. :-*
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Thought finance was the work of satan in the Tunnie household ::)
Always said simple bank/supermarket loan is the way to go, no finance PCP/HP deals.
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Paying cash gives you the least rights. Doesn't matter so much on a £500 shitter, but ask Jimmy how his rejection would have gone if he had bought the BMW outright ;)
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You're only right.
I think I'd have got there in the end, but nowhere near so easy! Buying new on PCP is ok, but used rates are like a trip back to the 1990's! Balancing security and cost I would borrow the max possible PCP deposit using cheaper finance and then take the smallest PCP, then pay most of it off in advance leaving a tiny monthly PCP payment
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Which is all well and good, right up to the point where the car is written off in an unforeseen third party event... ;)
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Gap insurance is a given on anything over 5k.
I paid £280 for £25k of cover on the BMW over 25yrs on a replacement car basis. These policies do create a significant moral hazard though ;D
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If it can avoid paying out, it will.
Had gap insurance foisted upon my first taxi purchase... six months later and had to threaten the dealer with court to pay the shortfall when the inevitable happened...
Not long after, the finance manager was sent down for various fraudulent scams. Surprise, surprise, the dealer group closed shortly after :-X