Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[TheBoy]

The Premier Automotive Group (PAG) was a Ford holding coming that ran it's premium brands, Aston Martin, Jaguar, Land Rover, Volvo and Lincoln. 



To the man on the street (ie Me!) this dosn't make good business sense.  Maybe it's against the rules... EU rules? 



Glad to hear it and I see they do a hybrid Range Rover now, but I still maintain that they could and should have started doing this a decade ago.  Maybe it's a hangover from the Ford era, as I don't think they've been quick to get into hybrids or EV's either. 

Ford Europe were part of said umbrella company a few years back, when Mrs TB worked for them .  And it wasn't just covering luxury brands back then, as PAG didn't consider Ford or Volvo as luxury brands.


An Indian company complying with EU laws . Yeah, right . Not everything is the fault of the EU.  Nope, its like many similar large multis, each company is run as a completely separate entity at that level, though may share some backend things, like personnel and IT etc.  TCS is probably Tata's biggest business.


As said, I know JLR have been working on tizzy stuff for several years.  But, TBH, up until very, very recently, it was never going to sell any, because its not what their customers wanted - anyone buying a 5l supercharged V8 Range Rover is unlikely to be a tree hugger.  Its only our (UK) government trying to bugger up things in the last couple of years that has made city dwellers consider electric, and electric isn't yet anywhere near viable for rural people.

Additionally, large premium cars are less of an ideal match for electric, so it would have been daft to try to launch anything.  The I-Pace was launched not long back, based on the smallest SUV platform JLR have.  And it sells well, as its ideal for posh mummy to drop little Johnny at school 2 miles away.

The next variant on my XJ is rumoured to be electric only at launch.  But you can bet a V6 diesel and a V6 supercharged petrol will follow very very quickly, and outsell the tizzy version.

[Viral_Jim]

By your reckoning, the battery will probably be shot by the time I hand it back?

Any battery manufacturer will quote what I said above.  And internally, every car manufacturer will also say the same.  But they don't publish externally for obvious reasons, and its against the BBC's principles to "investigate" that

If that is the case, why does it not seem to be bourse out by actual vehicles on the road? The largest collection of data I've heard about is the one linked below, which covers c350 European Tesla's. This trend seems to show that you lose about 10% over the first 160k miles. Surely they can't have just picked 350vehicles who only trickle charge?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/electrek.co/2018/04/14/tesla-battery-degradation-data/amp/

[TheBoy]

By your reckoning, the battery will probably be shot by the time I hand it back?

Any battery manufacturer will quote what I said above.  And internally, every car manufacturer will also say the same.  But they don't publish externally for obvious reasons, and its against the BBC's principles to "investigate" that

If that is the case, why does it not seem to be bourse out by actual vehicles on the road? The largest collection of data I've heard about is the one linked below, which covers c350 European Tesla's. This trend seems to show that you lose about 10% over the first 160k miles. Surely they can't have just picked 350vehicles who only trickle charge?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/electrek.co/2018/04/14/tesla-battery-degradation-data/amp/

Knowing what I know, from people properly and directly involved in EV car production from multiple companies, I would suggest Nissan's figures are much nearer, and Tesla's software lie like the rest of Tesla

Tesla have nothing unique in the way of technology, and that thermal 'dangle berries' is the same everyone uses - it has to be, as if you let that type of battery get modestly warm during charge or disacharge (by charging or discharging too quickly) it's life takes an immediate hit. Let it get hot during charge or discharge and you have an immediate fire risk.  Over discharge that type of battery tech, it has an immediate hit.  Even kind discharge and recharge does wear them out.  So if Tesla's software suggests otherwise, I would say the software is dishonest flawed.


The battery tech in a modern smartphone is not dissimilar, and has the kindest use possible, complete with all the thermal management going on (ok, maybe not the Galaxy Note from a couple of years back ), yet you'll do well after 3yrs to have 80% capacity left .  The batteries in many of my flying models are not dissimilar, but the quads in particular take high discharge rates. Missize the battery, and it can explode in flight, and they are always charged in a fireproof bag to contain them if/when they pop - out in the field, they tend to get charged at high rates.

[Sir Tigger KC]

Ford Europe were part of said umbrella company a few years back, when Mrs TB worked for them .  And it wasn't just covering luxury brands back then, as PAG didn't consider Ford or Volvo as luxury brands.

Well I can't can't find any mention of Ford Europe coming under PAG.   

They bought Volvo to compete with BMW, so they obviously did try to pitch it as a premium brand and as a Volvo owner I can confirm that it is premium...ish, sort of.... 

The whole PAG thing didn't work out very well though..... 

An Indian company complying with EU laws . Yeah, right . Not everything is the fault of the EU.  Nope, its like many similar large multis, each company is run as a completely separate entity at that level, though may share some backend things, like personnel and IT etc.  TCS is probably Tata's biggest business.

Er Indian or not, the parts of their business that operate in the EU have to comply with EU laws, rules and regs. 

[STEMO]

Ford Europe were part of said umbrella company a few years back, when Mrs TB worked for them .  And it wasn't just covering luxury brands back then, as PAG didn't consider Ford or Volvo as luxury brands.

Well I can't can't find any mention of Ford Europe coming under PAG.   

They bought Volvo to compete with BMW, so they obviously did try to pitch it as a premium brand and as a Volvo owner I can confirm that it is premium...ish, sort of.... 

The whole PAG thing didn't work out very well though..... 

An Indian company complying with EU laws . Yeah, right . Not everything is the fault of the EU.  Nope, its like many similar large multis, each company is run as a completely separate entity at that level, though may share some backend things, like personnel and IT etc.  TCS is probably Tata's biggest business.

Er Indian or not, the parts of their business that operate in the EU have to comply with EU laws, rules and regs. 

You're getting very argumentative and challenging lately, Sir Tig. Good, I like it. 

[Sir Tigger KC]

You're getting very argumentative and challenging lately, Sir Tig. Good, I like it. 

Well.....     you know.......    when someone is talking pish. 

And it all started with me saying that I thought that JLR had sat back on their laurels and I got jumped on!   

[TheBoy]

Well I can't can't find any mention of Ford Europe coming under PAG.   

They bought Volvo to compete with BMW, so they obviously did try to pitch it as a premium brand and as a Volvo owner I can confirm that it is premium...ish, sort of.... 

The whole PAG thing didn't work out very well though..... 

Ignore the marketing BS, the real reason was an umbrella for all the brands, all put into the same group for cost savings etc.  A lot of this is backend stuff, but an awful lot is in development savings by technology sharing. However, Volvo (like most Scandanavian companies) didn't do tech sharing, and kept going their own way - much like Saab/GM did - and PAG worked better for some parts of the group than others.

Er Indian or not, the parts of their business that operate in the EU have to comply with EU laws, rules and regs. 

Tata don't, as they have no companies registered in the EU.  They are all independent companies.  So, JLR have to comply. British Steel had to comply.  Tata don't - although any Tata employees based in any country are protected (or not ) by the local laws of that country.

Having worked for a foreign conglomerate in tough times, I know exactly how they can avoid a lot of the laws, in a not dissimilar way that Amazon can massively reduce its tax burden legally.