Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Sir Tigger KC on 26 May 2018, 11:52:42
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Talking of plumbing..... :)
Plastic pushfit plumbing is becoming more and more common and for good reason. It's quick and easy to fit, the pipes can be easily bent around corners, it can be added to existing copper systems, and you don't need any arcane skills worthy of a alchemist to put it together. :y
As a relatively new technology however I wonder how long these systems will remain watertight, as most rely on rubber O rings to make the seal and as current and ex Omega owners we all know how O rings fail. ::) Most manufacturers say their products are guaranteed for 20 years. Good luck with that in 19 years if you have a catastrophic leak then, especially if you DIY'ed! :-X :-\
Given the breadth and depth of OOF knowledge, I'm wondering what the general opinion of plastic plumbing is? ???
I know one thing. If I buy a house in the future, I'll want to know if it has plastic plumbing and if so when it was fitted. As when you think about it 20 years is a relatively short time in the life of a house and there are plenty of places around the country still using plumbing that would be getting on for a century! ;)
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Istr Fuse 19 mentioning recently its good for around 10 years, then the O rings start to leak.
I had a new shower plumbed in last month and they used plastic, so I can expect to need a new kitchen ceiling in 10 years time.
I may well be dead by then, so I'm not going to lose sleep over it. ;D
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Istr Fuse 19 mentioning recently its good for around 10 years, then the O rings start to leak.
I had a new shower plumbed in last month and they used plastic, so I can expect to need a new kitchen ceiling in 10 years time.
I may well be dead by then, so I'm not going to lose sleep over it. ;D
Almost certainly I would think.
You and STMO will probably drop off the perch on the same day. You'll meet him at the gates of.... ::)
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Funnily enough I am just boxing in some push fit joints in a new bathroom. All the rest in the house are accessible.
I have been using them here for 14 years now without a problem. I do accept that they may well leak in time at the o joints but as said I will be dead by then or in a care home.
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Yep.....I used them about 14 years ago also. No leaks. :y
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I wasn't keen when they first came out ,but branded polly ,fitted correctly with stiffeners ,clips ,etc seem to be good so far.
polly is good on long domestic hot water runs ,which copper would zap all the warmth from in the past
the only leaks / o ring fails I've seen so far have been down to poor fitting (rough pipe ends, no insert into compression fittings, or pipes pulled /not supported .
you may miss out on drinking so much lead ,copper sulfate etc though ;D
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Funnily enough I am just boxing in some push fit joints in a new bathroom. All the rest in the house are accessible.
I have been using them here for 14 years now without a problem. I do accept that they may well leak in time at the o joints but as said I will be dead by then or in a care home, sat by the sunny window, with a bit of potato stuck to my chin.
Sounds a bit bleak. ;D
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;D ;D ;D
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We get problems at work with them due to fluctuating water pressure , the pressure drops and "relaxes" the joints , the pressure goes back to normal and bingo - a leak
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An even bigger problem is electrical safety if you start mixing plastic and copper, i only use copper and copper joints on my old system but you could kill someone if you start mixing it up.
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An even bigger problem is electrical safety if you start mixing plastic and copper, i only use copper and copper joints on my old system but you could kill someone if you start mixing it up.
not if you have a dual RCD 17th ed consumer unit and comply with current regs
(which we all do ) :y
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An even bigger problem is electrical safety if you start mixing plastic and copper, i only use copper and copper joints on my old system but you could kill someone if you start mixing it up.
not if you have a dual RCD 17th ed consumer unit and comply with current regs
(which we all do ) :y
Not! ;D
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As I have said before, I have never nor would never use them especially after being given advise not to do so from two professional plumbers.
I must say also I love plumbing with copper and forming the joints, so a Lego type system that can "pop" at anytime due to pressure fluctuations and age does not impress me. The effects on electrical earthing is another factor that puts me off.
Why give yourself a chance of collapsing ceilings and damaged walls when using push-fits when you could do everything very securely with standard copper fittings? ???
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An even bigger problem is electrical safety if you start mixing plastic and copper, i only use copper and copper joints on my old system but you could kill someone if you start mixing it up.
not if you have a dual RCD 17th ed consumer unit and comply with current regs
(which we all do ) :y
Not! ;D
SHOCKING :o reporting you to the nic eic and electric police ;D
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Ihave a friend who used to be a kitchen fitter before he retired. He sings the praises of plastic plumbing because they get the job finished quickly and then home early! They last the guarantee period out (kitchen, not plumbing) so he is safe for a few months..... 8)
Ron.
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I've just refitted a bathroom using plastic plumbing and I just don't think it'll last as long as copper would. :-\
When it does start to leak in 10, 20 or 30 years it'll be a right ballache, as it's buried under the floorboards, a layer of hardboard and vinyl, but that will be someone else's problem! :y
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Ours survives the most horrendous fluctuations of pressure. Our village water system is 40 years old and always having leaks.
That reminds me. I must put a new pressure limiting valve in line. Already have one on the washing machine leg of pipework.
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I’ve used them extensively without issue and will continue to do so. What I probably wouldn’t do is de-mount them and then re-use the fittings if they’ve been in place for some time as I suspect the o-rings may have deformed.
The majority of plumbers will tell you not to use them But then again, they have a significant vested interest in people being unable to plumb their houses themselves. So that’s hardly impartial advice now is it. ::)
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As Randy Mice-Davies once famously said in Court - "They would say that, wouldn't they?"! ;D
Ron.
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I personally stick to using soldered copper fittings with compression joints for valves and taps. The house was built in 1977 and I've made various changes since 1985 with no problems. It has stood the test of time whereas the plastic type is a reliability work in progress which our children and grandchildren will know how good in the next 50-100 years. Certainly there have been reported problems with long term brittle fracture of early mains black plastic water pipes used by waterboards. :o :o :o
I accept that long copper hot water pipe runs are a pain unless insulated where you have to wait an age for the hot water to arrive and plastic will be better on this front, but they will all be cold with normal intermittent use. My kitchen plumbing I'm changing with refitting the kitchen as the original plumbing goes across the kitchen, down the far wall and back to the sink, but can be made about 1/3 of the length by bringing the pipes directly from the airing cupboard and tank down the wall at the opposite end of the kitchen. :y :y :y
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As I have said before, I have never nor would never use them especially after being given advise not to do so from two professional plumbers.
I must say also I love plumbing with copper and forming the joints, so a Lego type system that can "pop" at anytime due to pressure fluctuations and age does not impress me. The effects on electrical earthing is another factor that puts me off.
Why give yourself a chance of collapsing ceilings and damaged walls when using push-fits when you could do everything very securely with standard copper fittings? ???
I am with you, Lizzie. :y Plumbing with copper pipe is one of those skills that is just satisfying to practice every now and then. There may not be any reason for it these days, but, a bit like driving a proper car with 3 pedals, I find it satisfying to do it well and to do so requires occasional practice. ;)
I have used plastic plumbing for convenience in the past, but only in temporary or "under the sink" situations where a leak is immediately obvious and not too damaging. I wouldn't for a minute use it on central heating systems, under floors, and anywhere inaccessible, but I've come across plenty of installations where this has been done, and by real plumbers too.
As said, give it 20 years and the rubber O rings will perish and you'll be in all sorts of bother, especially in a central heating system where the water can get very hot and be subject to frequent temperature fluctuations.
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I too am one of those saddo's that appreciates and even enjoys copper pipe plumbing. Most of my house has been plumbed by me, excluding gas.
It's not difficult, just follow basic procedures and you won't go wrong.
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The key with all good soldering is clean joint surfaces and adding flux to the surfaces where it acts as a catalyst to make the solder flow. Wth copper pipes and fittings, wire wool is ideal for cleaning the joint surfaces to remove any/all copper oxide and other contaminants. :y :y :y
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As said, give it 20 years and the rubber O rings will perish and you'll be in all sorts of bother, especially in a central heating system where the water can get very hot and be subject to frequent temperature fluctuations.
The same was true of the copper central heating pipes buried in the floor of my last house, mind.. built in 1970, leaking in 2010 (ok, that's 40 years.. statistical variance ;D). Of course, that could probably have been avoided if the folks that built it had lagged the pipes to stop the concrete eating them..
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As said, give it 20 years and the rubber O rings will perish and you'll be in all sorts of bother, especially in a central heating system where the water can get very hot and be subject to frequent temperature fluctuations.
The same was true of the copper central heating pipes buried in the floor of my last house, mind.. built in 1970, leaking in 2010 (ok, that's 40 years.. statistical variance ;D). Of course, that could probably have been avoided if the folks that built it had lagged the pipes to stop the concrete eating them..
Yep, exactly, but the builder was long gone by then, so lagging was unnecessary. ::)
At least my current house has the central heating pipes in channels in the floor that have wooden covers, so you can get to it.
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Yep, exactly, but the builder was long gone by then, so lagging was unnecessary. ::)
At least my current house has the central heating pipes in channels in the floor that have wooden covers, so you can get to it.
Yeah - that was sadly not the case in Bracknell; we had to (well, the insurance company) dig the floor up to find the leak after they'd gone searching with thermal imaging cameras. Which was fun ;D
At least this house is all suspended floors (except possibly the kitchen), should I need to play 'hunt the leak' again ;D
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I had some which were a good age (10 plus year sold), they were problem free until disturbed and then they started to weep.
Now replaced with copper. :y
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The key with all good soldering is clean joint surfaces and adding flux to the surfaces where it acts as a catalyst to make the solder flow. Wth copper pipes and fittings, wire wool is ideal for cleaning the joint surfaces to remove any/all copper oxide and other contaminants. :y :y :y
Green kitchen scourers are my favourite, plus they appear to magically appear in the kitchen cupboard.
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The key with all good soldering is clean joint surfaces and adding flux to the surfaces where it acts as a catalyst to make the solder flow. Wth copper pipes and fittings, wire wool is ideal for cleaning the joint surfaces to remove any/all copper oxide and other contaminants. :y :y :y
Unless you are using compression joints, I would never even consider not using flux, which is essential when coupling pre-soldered or plain joints adding solder.
I also use a small file to clean the ends of cut pipes to remove swarf from inside the pipe and outside giving it a camber edge to stop muck flowing around the new system and ensure a water-tight fit. ;)
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Flux also prevents oxidation of the molden solder, helping adhesion and making a smoother joint: smells nice, too! :y 8)
Ron.
P.S. The Safety Elf warns against breathing the vapours, known as Colophony fumes; apparently, there is NO known safe level of exposure, so take care.
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg249.pdf