Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Varche on 11 December 2021, 21:03:46
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Well it might if you recorded it.
The start on Sunday will be interesting with mix of mediums and softs. We don’t need a safety car-messing up the running.
Bring on the race.
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Well it might if you recorded it.
The start on Sunday will be interesting with mix of mediums and softs. We don’t need a safety car-messing up the running.
Bring on the race.
We need a safety car if it's because Verstappen has put himself into orbit ;D
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At what point will Honda turn around and insist he brings the car home without hitting anything ???
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Its Hondas last race tomorrow so they are running out of time. :D
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Race is live on channel 4 , who are showing the SKY F1 feed. Kicks off at 1pm. Im going to wear gloves to try and save my fingernails. ;D
Verstappen should lead the early part of the race. If Lewis has a chance it will probably be when things have settled down after the tyre changes.
Who knows though, it could all get messy at the first corner.
Its bizarre that Verstappen is still ahead on race wins due to the 3 farcical laps behind the safety car at Spa, which gave him a "win".
Plus, of course, if he hadnt rammed Hamilton off the track at Monza, they would probably be equal on race wins, but Lewis seven points ahead at this point.
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Yikes
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I think I can safely say I will never watch F1 again. It's like a kids playground game these days.
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Bet you do!
Oh for a return to the days of cars racing each other for a race. Maybe just maybe we will get that next year with the new cars.
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They seem to make rules up as they go along
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Bet you do!
Oh for a return to the days of cars racing each other for a race. Maybe just maybe we will get that next year with the new cars.
No...I won't.
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Disgusting and disgraceful. In 45 years of watching it Ive never seen anything so disgraceful. >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
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What a fix, Mercedes should pull out of F1 and withdraw there engines in protest >:(
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Lewis was robbed! >:(
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Mercedes have announced they will appeal the result of the race. And rightly so.
Regulations say all lapped cars should be allowed to unlap themselves. They allowed the cars between Hamilton and Versatappen to do this, but not the cars behind Verstappen.
If they had followed the rules, by the time the lapped cars caught up with the pack, there wouldnt have been time to start racing again.
Robbed is the perfect word for it.
The problem is, it is now much more Disney style showbiz than motor racing as we knew it, so to take the title back off Verstappen now (which has never happened before) will hurt the image badly, so I will be very surprised if it happens.
I would imagine Masi will be quietly replaced before next season but it doesnt help what happened today.
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Well that was a total circus and should be null and void and re run.
4 laps to go ...Hamilton some 10 seconds ahead of Verstappen then crash and VSC..All seems quite sane ,but then 1 lap left and they are both side by side....cant see thats right .
I would suggest its a re run
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Mercedes have announced they will appeal the result of the race. And rightly so.
Regulations say all lapped cars should be allowed to unlap themselves. They allowed the cars between Hamilton and Versatappen to do this, but not the cars behind Verstappen.
If they had followed the rules, by the time the lapped cars caught up with the pack, there wouldnt have been time to start racing again.
Robbed is the perfect word for it.
The problem is, it is now much more Disney style showbiz than motor racing as we knew it, so to take the title back off Verstappen now (which has never happened before) will hurt the image badly, so I will be very surprised if it happens.
I would imagine Masi will be quietly replaced before next season but it doesnt help what happened today.
But do we want the race to finish under the safety car?
At least we had a 'wheel to wheel' last lap race.
F1 has little excitement as it is and if the race had finished with the pack slowly following Hamilton around it would have been very dull.
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Mercedes have announced they will appeal the result of the race. And rightly so.
Regulations say all lapped cars should be allowed to unlap themselves. They allowed the cars between Hamilton and Versatappen to do this, but not the cars behind Verstappen.
If they had followed the rules, by the time the lapped cars caught up with the pack, there wouldnt have been time to start racing again.
Robbed is the perfect word for it.
The problem is, it is now much more Disney style showbiz than motor racing as we knew it, so to take the title back off Verstappen now (which has never happened before) will hurt the image badly, so I will be very surprised if it happens.
I would imagine Masi will be quietly replaced before next season but it doesnt help what happened today.
But do we want the race to finish under the safety car?
At least we had a 'wheel to wheel' last lap race.
F1 has little excitement as it is and if the race had finished with the pack slowly following Hamilton around it would have been very dull.
At least it would have been a legitimate result ! he was robbed pure and simple
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For many years it was dull watching the same car/driver always wining but to effectively give the lead car on the last lap a 10 second penalty and have the second car on new tyres(albeit with some lucky strategy) be allowed to pull up level for the final lap ....no thats just wrong in any book .
Not keen on either driver or team but that wasnt how it should end ...not right
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I really don't care who wins.
I want it to be entertaining though.
"It's called motor racing Toto" as Masi said to Wolff. People paid £000's to travel to see the race and I think Masi wanted to give them the entertainment they hoped for. He may be right or wrong but it made good television which is why we are talking about it here at OOF. :y
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And theres the nub of the issue. It was wrong in every sense, but for people who dont tend to watch or follow it, it was "great entertainment".
Thats what it has become, when it used to be a sport.
Its a bit like a ref. in the dying seconds of a world cup final, allowing a goal to stand when the player who scored it was miles offside.
Entertaining, but wrong.
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And theres the nub of the issue. It was wrong in every sense, but for people who dont tend to watch or follow it, it was "great entertainment".
Thats what it has become, when it used to be a sport.
Its a bit like a ref. in the dying seconds of a world cup final, allowing a goal to stand when the player who scored it was miles offside.
Entertaining, but wrong.
Sport and entertainment can be used in the same sentence. ;)
.......and should be used in the same sentence. :y
Spreadsheet sport will be very dreary.
You could argue that Hamilton should have given the place back to Verstappen early in the race when he was clearly miles off the track. However, I'm glad that didn't happen because it took the race to it's final conclusion.
It was a great race just like the last one. :y
As Tyson Fury said when he knocked out Wilder " Have you not been entertained". :D
Answer...yes we have.
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From a daily rag.............
Sky Sports F1 expert Ted Kravitz has suggested that Verstappen could be slapped with a five-second penalty if he is found guilty of passing Hamilton before the line at the restart on the final lap, which is one of Mercedes' complaints.
Hamilton was less than five seconds behind Verstappen so such a penalty would hand him the title.
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Mercedes should have brought him in for tyres during previous VSC, he would have caught and passed Max.
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I disagree. In that scenario Verstappen may well have just put him in the wall like he tried to do last week.
As for the first lap incident. Verstappen did what he always does. he lunged up the inside, then didnt try to race through the corner,or take the normal racing line, but took a line that meant Hamilton either had to have an accident with him or go off the circuit. He left him no choice.
Imo its Verstappen who should have been penalised for dangerous driving for pushing someone off the track.
He should have been penalised for it in almost every race he has ever driven in though.
Thats why he isnt a great driver, despite his natural speed. He only has a couple of arrows in his quiver.
Push people off track, or place the car where they have two options. Crash or run off the circuit.
He has no finesse as a driver and no class as a person.
It isnt surprising when you look at his fathers history though. He has moulded him in his own image and made him an arrogant dangerous thug.
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The VSC senario gave every team an option and a decision to make which was within their own control..Yes Merc didnt make a good choice but it was theirs and they lived or died by it.
The final 4 lap circus was not a choice they had and given Merc were + 10 seconds up the road from RB its just not right that for a final single lap they were in effect side by side...as I said earlier that is right.
Yes it may of given the huge crowd and TV viewers a thrilling viewing but it wasnt right
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Sport is entertainment for the spectators. And the last 15 or so laps were entertaining, and the last was breathtaking. Unusual for dull, boring F1.
Not withstanding that the rules were clearly, err, "amended" for it to happen.
Whatever the rights or wrongs of how they got there, the last lap showed those 2 spoilt brats can actually play nicely. And brilliantly.
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Sport is entertainment for the spectators. And the last 15 or so laps were entertaining, and the last was breathtaking. Unusual for dull, boring F1.
Not withstanding that the rules were clearly, err, "amended" for it to happen.
Whatever the rights or wrongs of how they got there, the last lap showed those 2 spoilt brats can actually play nicely. And brilliantly.
Yep....the 'boy wonder' won't care about the perceived rights and wrongs of the situation. He is the 2021 F1 world champion.
Apparently his girlfriend is the daughter of 3 time F1 champion Nelson Piquet. She is almost 10 years older than young Max so he'll need all of his youthful energy to keep this woman milf satisfied. ;D ;D
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Mercedes appeals not upheld. I would be very interested to know on what grounds the decision was arrived at.
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Just read she had a "pit stop "with Daniil Kyvat and has already off spring so young Max wont need to lunge for the improbable pass on this occasion ;D
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"The race Director has overriding authority over the use of the safety car".
In other words. There are no regulations. Unbelievable.
I really dont know if I will watch again in future. :(
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Sport is entertainment for the spectators. And the last 15 or so laps were entertaining, and the last was breathtaking. Unusual for dull, boring F1.
Not withstanding that the rules were clearly, err, "amended" for it to happen.
Whatever the rights or wrongs of how they got there, the last lap showed those 2 spoilt brats can actually play nicely. And brilliantly.
Two spoilt brats? You cannot count! There is one. The onethat cannot be bothered to stay on the podium so his adoring fans can see him. The same one that doesnt congratulate his fellow competitors.
Sadly F1 has degenerated into a sort of squid games where most punters want mayhem, crashes, dangerous driving and not sublime side by side overtakes ( Alonso) or skill managing tyres , hunting down the guy in front by fractions of a second a lap- every lap.There isnt an answer. If you analyse the banal comments in just this thread you realise the media group that own F1 have taken it so wrongly down the wrong route. Welcome to the brave new world which excludes real fans but is totally inclusive of the Fanboyz. You know who you are. Banger demolition derbies used to be your stomping ground.
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Mercedes appeals not upheld. I would be very interested to know on what grounds the decision was arrived at.
Er, well, because we've already given that Dutch guy the cup and all...
Utterly astounding that a championship can be allowed to be decided on an adjudicator'#s decision that flip flopped one way and then the other. ::)
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Kevin welcome to the brave new world of squid games F1.
I now rescind my previous assertion that Masi must go. He is exactly what the fanboyz want. Neutralise hard won advantages to give the fanz ( with five second attention spans) what they want.
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Mercedes appeals not upheld. I would be very interested to know on what grounds the decision was arrived at.
What makes the most money. Those grounds.
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Mercedes are now lodging an appeal with the International Sporting court of Arbitration. Vey messy and regrettable but when the sport decides to rip up its own rulebook, its pretty inevitable.
Trouble is, even if they are successful and Hamilton is given the title it will be tainted, as it will also be if Verstappen gets to keep it.
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Liberty paid a shed load for the pointlessness that is called F1. With the intention to milk it as much as possible. This is their way of milking it.
Too much money is at stake, that's the problem. And its become even more of a shambles than when it was Ferrari International Assistance.
Can you imagine if Liberty bought the Premier League? If you were winning, penalties would be awarded against you ;D
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Mercedes are now lodging an appeal with the International Sporting court of Arbitration. Vey messy and regrettable but when the sport decides to rip up its own rulebook, its pretty inevitable.
Trouble is, even if they are successful and Hamilton is given the title it will be tainted, as it will also be if Verstappen gets to keep it.
I said to the missus when Marc lodged the complaint that the only way this will go is to an external, unbiased court.
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Agreed. I think the next step should to flog it to Walt Disney and make all the drivers wear mickey Mouse ears on their helmets.
Definition of sport.
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/sport
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I don't like the Dutch, but all things considered he deserved the title this year. HAM deserved to win today, but as he had luck on his side all these years, today he run out of it. Massi is a joke, and all that ''let's make F1 interesting'' crap could be done a lot better. But that's sport these days.
It's the same in all other sports. For example, look at Basketball. They make World championship qualifying in such way that teams can't use their NBA or Euro league players. So teams like Serbia are struggling to qualify.
All things aside, Checo has done some seriously god driving today. I hope next season Ferrari or McLaren could do better. Sainz had solid season, in competitive car he could be title contender...
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Next years grid .....You've already got the wee boys just need the wee boys cars to go with them.
(https://cdn.24.co.za/files/Cms/General/d/6000/d156ab444d6c484fac1cb6d61a2a4cf2.gif)
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;D ;D
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Drag racing any day, at least the rules are clear!!! How long before F1 is replaced by Formula E.
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It was some shocking decision making by the FIA.
This wont end here as there is money at stake..........I can see the FIA being forced to make up any financial impacts and issue an apology if it goes through the courts (they will of course settle on the steps so the FIA can avoid the apology)
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Martin Samuel in The Mail this morning. "In Abu Dhabi F1 crossed the line between competition to reality show".
Sums it up nicely.
Masi wasnt directing a race. He was directing the next episode of Drive to survive.
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It did feel very WWF ;D
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Wonder what Murray Walker would have made of it :'(
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Wonder what Murray Walker would have made of it :'(
He wouldn't recognise this excuse for F1.
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Best thing they could do now would be to declare that there is no Champion this year.
Dont think Lewis would want to be handed the tainted title now.
Anyone remember Whinger Spice commenting that Lewis win at Silverstone was a hollow victory ? ::)
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Wonder what Murray Walker would have made of it :'(
He wouldn't recognise this excuse for F1.
I doubt even he would struggle to find it exciting now :(, though I would concede the finale few laps of yesterdays fiasco was a real spectacle.
I suspect my interest in F1 waned when Walker retired, because the Ch4 commentators are shite, even Sky's Brundle fails to ignite the usual boredom. Murray Walker's excitement at every single race I found infectious.
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Anyone remember Whinger Spice commenting that Lewis win at Silverstone was a hollow victory ? ::)
Bless her cotton socks.
But was Lap 1, T6 incident much different, aside from there was no gravel trap? In both cases, the outside (and 2nd place at the point) were essentially forced off the track.
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Watch the Silverstone footage again. Imo Verstappen turned in on Hamilton expecting he would back out of it.
Imo Hamilton had already decided after the previous time he wasnt going to keep backing out when Verstappen tried to force him to, and he paid the price.
Imo Verstappen was in panic mode lap 1 Silverstone. He was all over the place from the start and ended up on the wrong line which was what gave Hamilton an open door to drive through, until it was abruptly closed.
Then watch lap 1 yesterday again. He drove into the corner on a line that left Hamilton 2 options, drive off the track or have an accident with him. He didnt have to do it that way, but its his default setting.
If Hamilton had stamped on the brake pedal to try and fall in behind him, there were 18 cars barrelling into the corner behind him.
Its not sporting and its not motor racing. Its cheating, its dangerous, its bullying and its dirty.
On the last lap yesterday Verstappen drove cleanly and precisely. Why ? Because if he did his usual trick and Hamilton didnt back out there would have been a red flag and the result taken from the last time they crossed the line. Hamilton would have won.
So, when he drives dirty and dangerous he knows exactly what he is doing. He just likes to do it that way to intimidate and bully people - unless there is a very good reason not to, such as the last lap yesterday.
The rules say drivers have to give each other racing room when overtaking (a cars width I believe) Verstappen rarely adheres to that rule.
The rules say drivers must not drive in a fashion likely to cause a crash. Verstappen breaks this rule almost every time another car is close to him.
If everyone keeps indulging his attitude and driving its only a matter of time before he hurts someone.
He needs to be banned for a couple of races to try and teach him a lesson imo.
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Watch the Silverstone footage again. Imo Verstappen turned in on Hamilton expecting he would back out of it.
At 185mph, and at that point in Copse, his choices were:
a) turn in
b) uncontrollably enter the gravel, which wouldn't end well
As it happened, a) ended in b) anyway.
I do believe in that case, it was a reckless move by Hamilton, as do the stewards (not that they can be believed). In the same way, wee Hornblower whinging about Hamilton having all 4 wheels off the track at T6 when his driver left him with no other option, is incorrect.
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Or C - concede the place, slow down and carry on racing to try and regain the lead. He had plenty of space to do that, but he cannot accept anyone having the right to be in front of him under any circumstances.
Its probably due to how his Father treated him when he was go kart racing as a kid. If he lost a race he was in trouble.
Just as the old guy who tried to argue with his father at a Go Kart race was in trouble when he fractured his skull.
As his wife was in trouble when she argued back and got arrested for assaulting her.
As his girlfriend was in trouble when he ran over her with his car and got arrested for attempted murder.
Verstappen senior is a very nasty piece of work indeed. All we know for sure is that Max said that when he lost a go kart race once, his Dad wouldnt speak to him for two weeks.
And after the Silverstone incident, Max said " If I did that my Dad would give me a good hiding".
I suspect not speaking to him for two weeks wasnt all that went on, but we dont know.
I do strongly suspect though that the way his Dad raised him has given him serious character flaws that are a danger to those who share a track with him.
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Back to Sunday. During the 2020 Eiffel GP Masi had the safety car out on track for a long time.
Hamilton and Verstappen complained about it after the race. Masi said "The sporting regulations state that all lapped cars have to be allowed to unlap themselves by overtaking the safety car, before we can end the safety car period.
Hung by his own petard. ::)
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Or C - concede the place, slow down and carry on racing to try and regain the lead. He had plenty of space to do that, but he cannot accept anyone having the right to be in front of him under any circumstances.
At that point it was too late to concede. And it was a late lunge by Hamilton.
Braking at that point in Copse is a big accident*. I've never driven an F1 car (though my bro has, lucky bastard), but I imagine even major lifting at that point at that speed will upset the car.
I ain't a Max fan. In fact, I probably have more loyalty to Hamilton/Merc, though purely because they are the local town team. So I ain't blinded by the sun coming out of either of their arses. I do think that incident does show Hamilton can show weakness under pressure.
*Completely unrelated, I once put an XR4i PoS in that gravel trap, whilst being chased by security ;D
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Back to Sunday. During the 2020 Eiffel GP Masi had the safety car out on track for a long time.
Hamilton and Verstappen complained about it after the race. Masi said "The sporting regulations state that all lapped cars have to be allowed to unlap themselves by overtaking the safety car, before we can end the safety car period.
Hung by his own petard. ::)
Yeah, Masi does seem to make the rules up as he goes along. If that's allowed by the rulebook, so be it. If its not, then Merc will crucify them in court.
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I dont think Merc are going to persue it further, but time will tell. I do think it will hasten Toto and Hamiltons retirement though.
It has left a very bad taste with a lot of people, and its difficult to call it a sport in any real sense after sunday.
According to the FIA F1 teams are forbidden from going to external courts or arbiters.
The FIA have final judgement in all matters. :o
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Back to Sunday. During the 2020 Eiffel GP Masi had the safety car out on track for a long time.
Hamilton and Verstappen complained about it after the race. Masi said "The sporting regulations state that all lapped cars have to be allowed to unlap themselves by overtaking the safety car, before we can end the safety car period.
Hung by his own petard. ::)
Agreed.
If it goes to appeal, I forecast a secret cash settlement out of court to compensate all the Mercedes employees robbed of bonus. There will be platitudes. Changes to the FIA structure, a clarification of the rules BUT the result will stand. Media by the way report that Lewis asked Mercedes not to appeal. No doubt to disbelieve that. If the shoe had been on the other foot, no way would Max have gone to Red Bull and ask them to drop it. That epitomises the gulf between the two.
This culmination of the season may well hasten both Toto and Lewis’s departure. That would be a sad loss.
The good news is that the Fanboyz will get what they want . Demolition Derby racing.
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Demolition Derby racing.
I used to enjoy watching that at Standlake on a Sunday morning, in my old water skiing days. So bring it on ;D
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Only if you change your handle to The Boyfanz ;D
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Only if you change your handle to The Boyfanz ;D
Or even Fanboyz
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That is already taken!
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That is already taken!
Oh, I see. Boyfanz are fans of Jaime?
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Anyway, boyfanz, and fanboyz for that matter, are sexist and no longer acceptable.
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Mercedes have officially withdrawn their appeal. Reportedly at Hamiltons request.
Not unexpected I suppose. Damned if they do, damned if they dont. :(
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Reportedly at Hamiltons request.
He has something Max will never have. He took the knee again, ;D
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Reportedly at Hamiltons request.
He has something Max will never have. He took the knee again, ;D
Yep, class and dignity. :y
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No doubt the FIA bunged Merc the lost bonus money. They have also made noises about sorting out the inconsistencies of the rules and theiradmin. We will see.
IF Russel is the Merc second driver, it is to be hoped Merc has plenty of chassis available. I cannot see Russel giving wy to bullying lunges……
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Speaking today Toto couldnt give an answer to a question about Hamilton walking away now. He just said he really hopes he wont.
He said that they both still feel very raw about what happened and neither of them will attend the FIA prizegiving gala in Paris tonight.
Under the sporting regulations (for what they are worth) Hamilton is required to attend, as one of the top three drivers in the Championship.
His non attendance could bring punishment for non attendance.
Will they dare rub salt in the wound ?
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Speaking today Toto couldnt give an answer to a question about Hamilton walking away now. He just said he really hopes he wont.
He said that they both still feel very raw about what happened and neither of them will attend the FIA prizegiving gala in Paris tonight.
Under the sporting regulations (for what they are worth) Hamilton is required to attend, as one of the top three drivers in the Championship.
His non attendance could bring punishment for non attendance.
Will they dare rub salt in the wound ?
Ordered your tee shirt yet, Albs?
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Eh ? ???
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https://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=149015.msg1996078#new
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>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
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The smoking gun.
https://www.givemesport.com/87970611-abu-dhabi-2021-gp-new-footage-suggests-michael-masi-was-swayed-by-red-bull-in-final-laps
Red Bull told Masi exactly what they wanted to happen. He replied "understood", and then did exactly as they asked him to.
Unbelievable.
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If it was illegal then he should lose the title, no ifs or buts.
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Problem is, it seems the FIA decide what is or isnt legal at any given time apparently. Which is the only explanation for Mercedes failing in their appeal against the race result.
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It made the final race a total cluster f**k to be honest >:( >:(
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Like I said after the race, I won't be watching.
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Which is the only explanation for Mercedes failing in their appeal against the race result.
Not really. Even if the appeal had succeeded, what could be done? Red Bull/Verstappen hadn't done anything illegal, so disqualifying or penalising them them wasn't an option. It seems the only way to correct the error available to the Court of Arbitration in Sport would have been to declare the race null and void. That would have left Hamilton and Verstappen equal on points, but Verstappen had more wins so would still have won the title. Therefore Mercedes had nothing to win by continuing the appeal, and arguably the damage to F1's reputation would be worse than it already is.
Doing something like saying the race should have been red flagged, or finished under the safety car may have been the correct course of action at the time, but it didn't happen. It was an error by the "referee" failing to follow the rulebook, and once it's happened there really isn't any way to unwind the error.
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From memory, F1 disputes arent allowed by the FIA to be taken to the court of arbitration of sport.
The only realistic way to resolve it if Mercedes appeal had succeeded would probably have been to have deemed the race to have finished the lap before the Williams went into the wall.
A retrospective red flag in effect.
I think all the evidence suggests the the referee didnt just make an error. He seems to have taken his instructions from Red Bull.
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From memory, F1 disputes arent allowed by the FIA to be taken to the court of arbitration of sport.
The only realistic way to resolve it if Mercedes appeal had succeeded would probably have been to have deemed the race to have finished the lap before the Williams went into the wall.
A retrospective red flag in effect.
I think all the evidence suggests the the referee didnt just make an error. He seems to have taken his instructions from Red Bull.
And there lies the problem :-\
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The W series (single seater category for women) will be a support race at several rounds of the F1 championship this year.
One of the teams is being run by Caitlan Jenner (cue outraged Opti). :D
The "sport" has disappeared down a Netflix rabbit hole.
Motor racing R.I.P.
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The only realistic way to resolve it if Mercedes appeal had succeeded would probably have been to have deemed the race to have finished the lap before the Williams went into the wall.
A retrospective red flag in effect.
Yeah, but retrospective red flags aren't in the rule book either, so is no more valid than what actually happened. I don't think anyone disagrees that it's a mess, but once the referee makes a serious error, it's often very difficult to unpick the result later on.
I don't really see what can be done to prevent a future similar incident happening either - the problem is the late safety car. The risk of a late safety car is well known to all the teams, and will always disadvantage the leading driver. I think the rules allow 3 options - Red Flag, everyone unlaps, and no-one unlaps.
If the Williams crash happens one or more laps earlier, then Massi (correctly) lets all cars un-lap, and resumes the race for one (or more) laps and we get Verstappen winning. If the crash happens one lap later, then the race finishes under the safety car and Hamilton wins. If the crash happens when it did, then I actually thing the race should have been restarted with no-unlapping. That would probably have lead to a Hamilton win, but there is a chance Verstappen would have got past the back markers to challenge Hamilton by the end of the lap.
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What is also incredulous.is that the public pronouncement of the FIA deliberations wont be made public until a couple of days before the new season starts. Presumably that fits the FIA’s narrative i.e. we have made some changes ( extra personnel during race) , moved Masi to another dept ( warehouse stock control), no more live petitions by team muppets, welcome to the new season.
They are letting the teams know next week. What chance of that staying secret.
Anyone know if Ch4 is showing the race a few hours later free this year? I definitely don’t feel inclined to pay DAZN for live coverage.
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The only realistic way to resolve it if Mercedes appeal had succeeded would probably have been to have deemed the race to have finished the lap before the Williams went into the wall.
A retrospective red flag in effect.
Yeah, but retrospective red flags aren't in the rule book either, so is no more valid than what actually happened. I don't think anyone disagrees that it's a mess, but once the referee makes a serious error, it's often very difficult to unpick the result later on.
I don't really see what can be done to prevent a future similar incident happening either - the problem is the late safety car. The risk of a late safety car is well known to all the teams, and will always disadvantage the leading driver. I think the rules allow 3 options - Red Flag, everyone unlaps, and no-one unlaps.
If the Williams crash happens one or more laps earlier, then Massi (correctly) lets all cars un-lap, and resumes the race for one (or more) laps and we get Verstappen winning. If the crash happens one lap later, then the race finishes under the safety car and Hamilton wins. If the crash happens when it did, then I actually thing the race should have been restarted with no-unlapping. That would probably have lead to a Hamilton win, but there is a chance Verstappen would have got past the back markers to challenge Hamilton by the end of the lap.
He didnt do that though. He let the cars between Hamilton and Verstappen unlap themselves and didnt allow the ones behind Verstappen to themselves, thus giving Verstappen a clear run at Hamilton - just as the Red Bull team manager had told him to do.
It stinks to high heaven.
Your probably right though. To have restarted with no unlapping would have resumed the race in as fair a way as was reasonably possible in the circumstances.
Its that decision to only allow the ones between the two to unlap that makes no sense to anyone who doesnt work for Red Bull.
Verstappens first title will always be badly tainted no matter what he does in future.
Having observed him for several years though, I very much doubt he will care.
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The only realistic way to resolve it if Mercedes appeal had succeeded would probably have been to have deemed the race to have finished the lap before the Williams went into the wall.
A retrospective red flag in effect.
Yeah, but retrospective red flags aren't in the rule book either, so is no more valid than what actually happened. I don't think anyone disagrees that it's a mess, but once the referee makes a serious error, it's often very difficult to unpick the result later on.
I don't really see what can be done to prevent a future similar incident happening either - the problem is the late safety car. The risk of a late safety car is well known to all the teams, and will always disadvantage the leading driver. I think the rules allow 3 options - Red Flag, everyone unlaps, and no-one unlaps.
If the Williams crash happens one or more laps earlier, then Massi (correctly) lets all cars un-lap, and resumes the race for one (or more) laps and we get Verstappen winning. If the crash happens one lap later, then the race finishes under the safety car and Hamilton wins. If the crash happens when it did, then I actually thing the race should have been restarted with no-unlapping. That would probably have lead to a Hamilton win, but there is a chance Verstappen would have got past the back markers to challenge Hamilton by the end of the lap.
He didnt do that though. He let the cars between Hamilton and Verstappen unlap themselves and didnt allow the ones behind Verstappen to themselves, thus giving Verstappen a clear run at Hamilton - just as the Red Bull team manager had told him to do.
It stinks to high heaven.
Your probably right though. To have restarted with no unlapping would have resumed the race in as fair a way as was reasonably possible in the circumstances.
Its that decision to only allow the ones between the two to unlap that makes no sense to anyone who doesnt work for Red Bull.
Verstappens first title will always be badly tainted no matter what he does in future.
Having observed him for several years though, I very much doubt he will care.
I know. But the earlier part of the sentence says "If the Williams crash happens one or more laps earlier,". I was simply trying to say that the crash happened at a point where there was no one clear way of resolving it without someone being unhappy.
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Fair enough. I think to have stuck to the letter of the rules may well have meant finishing the race under the safety car, but that wouldnt have looked good on the next series of Drive to survive.
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Surely, if there is a situation where an intervention has to be made in the name of safety, and there's no easy option, then the one that preserves the positions the drivers have raced for is the correct one? For a sport, at any rate. I keep forgetting this is reality TV, though. ::)
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Surely, if there is a situation where an intervention has to be made in the name of safety, and there's no easy option, then the one that preserves the positions the drivers have raced for is the correct one? For a sport, at any rate. I keep forgetting this is reality TV, though. ::)
One of the aims of the safety car is to deliberatley bunch the field up. This allows marshalls to have a large section of the track with no cars on it so they can clear it up. That's why lapped cars aren't released until after the track is supposedly clear, then one more lap behind the SC, then race back on. Marshalls aren't supposed to enter the track until the field is all bunched up, and if drivers start doing pit stops under the SC then that delays the procedure even more.
Personally I think they need to divide the circuit up into 5 or more sectors, impose pit lane speed limits (80kph) in sectors with safety concerns, but allow the racing to continue on other sections that are clear. You can't do that with a SC. Problem is you'd then need 2 or more medical teams in-case there was a second accident in another part of the track.
I don't see how you can devise a rule that is fair to all under all circumstances. Red Bull took a punt on pit stopping twice to put new tyres on Verstappen, and ultimatley that gamble paid off (admittedly with the help of a dodgy decision from Massi). Mercedes played the safe game and left Hamilton on old tyres twice in order to maintain track position, but came unstuck because of the timing of the Williams accident and the late SC. So 'fair' isn't achievable IMV.
However, if you write a rule book, then the rules should be stuck to.
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Doesn’t bode well. Nothing from the FIA today.
Probably wait till the first safety car of the first race.
What have they been doing?
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Decision delayed apparently. Probably awaiting instructions from Netflix. ::)
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/fia-delays-f1-restructure-plans-following-abu-dhabi-controversy/8169810/
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Masi has lost his job as race director. An admission of guilt without putting matters right imo.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/michael-masi-dropped-as-f1-race-director-after-fia-investigation/8254002/
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Going to be a job share, too much for one man (person)?
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Going to be a job share, too much for one man (person)?
...or non person. ::)
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It wasnt too much for Charlie Whiting.
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Things were easier then, it was only a sport.
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Things were easier then, it was only a sport.
Very good, El Varche :y
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It wasnt too much for Charlie Whiting.
Quality then, quantity now i reckon. ;)
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££££s
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It wasnt too much for Charlie Whiting.
I am probably mistaken but my perception was that the job killed him. :(
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It wasnt too much for Charlie Whiting.
I am probably mistaken but my perception was that the job killed him. :(
Not surprising given the corruption :-\
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The race directors job needs someone who the paddock respect. Charlie had that respect. I don't think Masi ever did. The problem is finding someone better. I'd probably go with someone like Ross Brawn, if he could be persuaded to do it. Knows F1 inside out, knows the rule book inside out, worked at/with Ferrari, Benneton, Mercedes and run his own team. And more to the point explains quietly and succinctly why you should STFU and stop whinging when you're out of order.
Some won't like his involvement with Ferrari, but I don't know anyone more respected in the paddock. If he told Horner or Toto to shut up, I think they would.
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Mazespin gone then
I wonder if we will get a full season in this year?
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I reckon HAAS were glad of the opportunity to get rid of him.
Pity Crashtappen isnt Russian. :D
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It looks like the whole Red Bull saga is about to get a lot worse.
The FIA imposed a budget cap on F1 teams a couple of years ago. It is very strongly rumoured that Red Bull are about to be exposed for having ignored the budget cap while everyone else stayed within it.
If this turns out to be true, it means the "success" they had last year and the design and development of this years car (and possibly next years) have been achieved by cheating from start to finish.
If its true, the only means of the "sport" keeping any credibility (if it does actually have any left) must be to cancel all their results from last year and this year, and keep an extremely close eye on them in the future.
Personally I think they are an odious bunch of people who have damaged the sport, probably beyond repair, and should be permanently banned.
None of the above will happen of course.
I predict it will be
A, swept under the carpet
B. a whitewash
C. found guilty of a lesser charge, with a relatively minor punishment.
https://www.planetf1.com/news/f1-budget-cap-punishments-explained/
https://www.planetf1.com/news/red-bull-significantly-exceeded-cap-2021-rumour/
https://www.planetf1.com/news/toto-wolff-maybe-christian-horner-needs-to-talk-to-his-cfo-more/
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/wolff-open-secret-one-f1-team-massively-broke-cost-cap/10376987/
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/alfa-romeo-no-room-for-flexibility-on-budget-cap-breaches/10376874/
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Well we find out tomorrow what the FIA s findings are.
Cant see them stripping the offending teams of points and drivers championships , prize monies etc. probably just be a fine equivalent to the overspend. If so that would be a charter for everyone to do the same cheating.
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They all cheat, it’s A fact👍
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The latest rumour being put out to he media is that the overspend was very small. Probably softening everyone up for a mild slap on the wrist to be administered.
Cant risk derailing Formula Netflix and all the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ that goes along with it.
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Unfortunately it’s going the same way as football you have to be fu(Ed in the head to watch the shit used to be so good years ago🙁
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The latest rumour being put out to he media is that the overspend was very small. Probably softening everyone up for a mild slap on the wrist to be administered.
Cant risk derailing Formula Netflix and all the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ that goes along with it.
Surely F1 management and the media as just as culpable as the nail biting, contrived or not, is what drives the whole business model...
Exerpt from memo to Team Directors from Ecclestone Enterprises:
"Do what you can to make it all a little bit more interesting, but when someone notices, we will drag you out of the paddock in a loud and obvious, stage managed, manner. And take you out for lunch."
Much like the old school tactic of being dragged out of class to see the headmaster only to find out that he wanted to thank you for helping his kid with their maths prep.
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The latest rumour being put out to he media is that the overspend was very small. Probably softening everyone up for a mild slap on the wrist to be administered.
Cant risk derailing Formula Netflix and all the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ that goes along with it.
Surely F1 management and the media as just as culpable as the nail biting, contrived or not, is what drives the whole business model...
Exerpt from memo to Team Directors from Ecclestone Enterprises:
"Do what you can to make it all a little bit more interesting, but when someone notices, we will drag you out of the paddock in a loud and obvious, stage managed, manner. And take you out for lunch."
Much like the old school tactic of being dragged out of class to see the headmaster only to find out that he wanted to thank you for helping his kid with their maths prep.
You were an arse licker even then? ;D
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Ecclestone is long gone. Its run by Amarykuns now. Therefore its more about showbiz than motor racing.
Little Bernie has other things on his plate, such as his upcoming trial for huge tax fraud.
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The latest rumour being put out to he media is that the overspend was very small. Probably softening everyone up for a mild slap on the wrist to be administered.
Cant risk derailing Formula Netflix and all the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ that goes along with it.
Surely F1 management and the media as just as culpable as the nail biting, contrived or not, is what drives the whole business model...
Exerpt from memo to Team Directors from Ecclestone Enterprises:
"Do what you can to make it all a little bit more interesting, but when someone notices, we will drag you out of the paddock in a loud and obvious, stage managed, manner. And take you out for lunch."
Much like the old school tactic of being dragged out of class to see the headmaster only to find out that he wanted to thank you for helping his kid with their maths prep.
You were an arse licker even then? ;D
Not at all. Got dragged to the Headmaster's office twice. Once by Matron for refusing to eat mashed potato, and once for trying to cover for a classmate who let off a box of stink bombs in class. (The teacher was a complete soggy nappy and the lad who set them off was a cheeky sod, but didn't deserve the hiding he got for it). My Dad taught there, so my visit was never going to end with a pasting* ;)
Had to wait for secondary school for that :D
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Well we find out tomorrow what the FIA s findings are.
Cant see them stripping the offending teams of points and drivers championships , prize monies etc. probably just be a fine equivalent to the overspend. If so that would be a charter for everyone to do the same cheating.
Well, we didnt. They have now delayed the announcement until next week for some reason. ::)
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What a shower.
Wait till Max is world champion then announce some financial penalties.
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Why does anyone still watch it? ::)
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Hamilton.
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Hamilton.
No, F1.
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I watch it because he is still racing. When he stops, so do I. ;)
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Good driver but a prick :y
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Greatest driver Ive seen in 45 years of watching. Has a good heart imo, and means well, but out of his depth when spouting about political matters.
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:y
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F1 is now a total farce. :-X
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And we haven’t even had the results of the two teams that broke the budget. Still Max is champ ( again) so they wont take that off him. Just a small fine for the team………..
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Yes and with four races still to go :y excellent achievement.
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Yes and with four races still to go :y excellent achievement,assuming his car is legal.
Fixed that for you. :y :D
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But yes, congratulations to him on winning his first World championship. :)
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But yes, congratulations to him on winning his first World championship. :)
Now, now....Mr Bitz. :D ::) ::) ::)
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Could be no 1st world championship IF RedBull did overspend last year. Imagine if the penalty is points from last year, this year and next year were removed. Meanwhile back on earth….
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Could be no 1st world championship IF RedBull did overspend last year. Imagine if the penalty is points from last year, this year and next year were removed. Meanwhile back on earth….
Well they did and I wonder what the punishment will be ::)
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overspent but within 5%of the cap. Ferrari say thats worth half a second a lap.
Its outrageous that they get away with this kind of thing. No doubt the other teams will complain, but it will be a mild slap on the wrist "for the sake of the " sport". >:( >:( >:(
I would love to be proved wrong, but.......
I withdraw my congratulations on winning his first title. He hasnt won anything within the rules.
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overspent but within 5%of the cap. Ferrari say thats worth half a second a lap.
Its outrageous that they get away with this kind of thing. No doubt the other teams will complain, but it will be a mild slap on the wrist "for the sake of the " sport". >:( >:( >:(
I would love to be proved wrong, but.......
So up to 7.5 million overspend, thats a shit load of upgrades >:(
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And they interpreted thier own rules in an odd way so he could be declared champion yesterday, before the sh1t hit the fan today.
I think I might be finally done with it now. :(
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Like I said.. they all cheat, and if you can’t see how good Max is you’re blind👍
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7 million? About 70 engineers.You couldcome up with a lot of improvements with that and give your team a lead over the other teams which it would be tough to catch up.
Max is a talented driver but needs to mature. Lando is a talented driver and outshines Daniel
I agree cheating is ever present in motor sport. However there’s a difference between say having a flexing wing and having extra money over other teams. One is interpretation of rules , the other is not acceptable.
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Most recent info says that RB excluded Adrian Neweys salary from the calculations because they claim he isnt an employee, but a contract worker.
They also excluded employees who were off sick, and claimed they were suspended.
So were talking $ millions.
Mark has claimed that the possibilty of Verstappen having last years title taken off him is complete nonsense.
Despite that possibility being within the list of punishments set by the FIA.
The arrogance is staggering.
Marko also said "The past has shown that even extreme violations of the regulations were punished very mildly by the FIA."
To me, this strongly suggests they knew exactly what they were doing.
Christian Horner spoke about the possibility of the budget cap being introduced, before it happened. He said that the problem would be that all the teams would ignore the cap.
It turns out that every team except his stayed within it.
Ross Brawn told the teams that they would lose their championships if they broke the cap.
He should also have said the pigs might fly.
While Red Bull are involved in F1, it will have zero credibility.
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New name for the FIA…..RBIA.?
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Most recent info says that RB excluded Adrian Neweys salary from the calculations because they claim he isnt an employee, but a contract worker.
Who happens to be the previous owner of Mrs. KW's MX-5.
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Most recent info says that RB excluded Adrian Neweys salary from the calculations because they claim he isnt an employee, but a contract worker.
Who happens to be the previous owner of Mrs. KW's MX-5.
Might increase the resale value.....if he is considered enough of a 'celeb' ::) ;)
Princess Diana Escort went for silly money. RS 2000, I think,....or XR3.
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Just Checked.
It was a 1985 RS Turbo. £722,500 with all auction charges. :o :o :o :o
The world is completely f*ucked up at the moment. :-X
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But as said at the time it was a one off.
People pay a lot of mney for cars, clothes worn by celebrities for their rarity. Only one Diana and one car. Could easily have been 2million
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Good race yesterday,Verstapen is a dick however !!
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And just to confirm (if it was needed) the complete chavness and lack of class of the whole family - Max,s Mum posted on Instagram yesterday that Perez races car by day, and cheats on his wife in the evenings.
She later deleted it, probably after advice from lawyers.
That team and those connected with it is one big toxic cesspit.
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;D
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That team and those connected with it is one big toxic cesspit.
Yeah, but you'd say that for any competitive team thats not Mercedes and Hamilton.... ;D
In defence of Mercedes, they do put on an awfully good firework display for the town, and usually drag along a F1 car or 2 to cream over.