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[TheBoy]

I'm not a climate change denier

But don't be afraid if you are, seeing as despite the billions spent on research, there is no scientific evidence to some that the planet's warming is man made, rather than natural, as has happened multiple times in the planet's history. No matter what the BBC and co promote as fact.

In much the same way there is no scientific evidence that smoking causes lung cancer.


Personally, I believe its likely that a proportion of warming is man made.

[TheBoy]

They work like inside out fridges. At the back of a fridge/freezer there is a radiator, and if you touch it you'll feel it gets hot. You're using (say) 100Watts of electrical energy to 'pump' heat out of the center of the fridge, and dissipate it out of the radiator on the back of the fridge.

The physics then is that if you 'pump' 50W of heat out of the fridge by using 100W of electricity, the total heat dissipated in the radiator is 150W - and you're generating 50W of 'cold' inside the fridge. So you're generating 150W of heat by using 100W of electrical energy. Its 150% efficient. A well designed heat pump can actually be 400% efficient - 1KW of electrical energy in, 4KW of heat out.

A good home condensing gas boiler on the other hand is what? 90% efficient maximum? So the heat pump will be 4 times more efficient than a gas boiler. The trick then is to generate the electricity in such a way that you don't have to burn gas - which is what all those big propeller things do that they're building all around the coast (plus nuclear & hydro power) 

If they can get the cost of production and installation down to levels comparible with a gas boiler, then I'd have one next time. But the current boiler is only 3 years old so I'd hope it'll last another 20 years.

Yeah, but those efficiency figures are designed to make stupid people not understand the principles, and sign up for one.

My mum's bloody great big 3 phase boiler is supposed to be massively efficient...   ...but she disagrees strongly, based on the fact her home is cold in the winter, and her bills are eye watering.

And the current gas prices are caused, in part, but the lack of generation of unreliable renewables.

[LC0112G]

mum's bloody great big 3 phase boiler is supposed to be massively efficient...

Is it a simple boiler, or a heat pump? An electric boiler can never be more than 100% efficient. A Gas boiler is supposedly 90% efficient, but electricity historically has been much more expensive than gas, so heating a home with electricity was always several times more expensive. If the price of gas remains where it currently is, then the balance will change - assuming we can get the leccy from renewable sources.

It would help if half our Nuclear power stations weren't busted.

[Doctor Gollum]

170 million tons of molten gubbins has been chucked out of a hole on a little island in the last month...

And the Chinese will only go green when they run out of materials to burn and make things with...

So, if changing your light bulbs for ones half a watt lower makes you feel better then happy days, but if not, don't waste your time worrying about it...

[STEMO]

170 million tons of molten gubbins has been chucked out of a hole on a little island in the last month...

And the Chinese will only go green when they run out of materials to burn and make things with...

So, if changing your light bulbs for ones half a watt lower makes you feel better then happy days, but if not, don't waste your time worrying about it...

Thing is, you'll have no choice whether you're worried or not. That's the bit that's bothering a lot of people. As Jaime said, despite the government's assertions to the contrary, the science isn't quite there, but we are all going to be forced into a situation where we pay a fortune for something that, in my mind, just isn't going to make any difference.

[dave the builder]

Air source heat pumps are NOT as efficient as some would have you believe in out climate in the UK.

they have to reverse cycle the outside unit to defrost it when it gets cold ,wasting electric 

and you can't just rip out a gas boiler and fit an ASHP to a poorly insulated house with rads
ASHPs run at much lower temps and you need a decent insulated thermal mass to get the benefits and boost domestic hot water temps with electric elements 

or you could use a gas boiler for that   

ASHPs have their place, in new builds that are designed to reap the benefits with a huge solar array to contribute the the running costs .

The more we spend on green tech , the more the Chinese will polute to supply us with said green tech 

[STEMO]

Couldn't you just put a massive heating element in the big box and blow air past it? Then you could put it inside the house and call it a convector heater 

[Sir Tigger KC]

There are those, of course, who see it as something much more sinister.

No way!   .         

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Bollix to all that crap. You simply cant beat a good old coal fire in winter. No chimney in my current house, but if I ever move again that will be a definite requirement.
Coal or logs burning in the front room is a wonderful thing. Couldnt give a toss what little Greta says. 

[STEMO]

Bollix to all that crap. You simply cant beat a good old coal fire in winter. No chimney in my current house, but if I ever move again that will be a definite requirement.
Coal or logs burning in the front room is a wonderful thing. Couldnt give a toss what little Greta says. 

The local greenies will report you and a man will call round and get his big hose out 

[dave the builder]

Couldn't you just put a massive heating element in the big box and blow air past it? Then you could put it inside the house and call it a convector heater 

that's heating air, which cools rapidly when cold air rushes in from outside when you open the door 
it's better to heat the fabric of the building and water.
a load of solar panels on the roof feeding electricity to heating elements in the concrete floor slab during winter , and feeding a hot water tank in summer , rather than selling power back to the grid for peanuts 

[ronnyd]

As had been said before, what is the sense of little old Britain going carbon neutral when China, India, USA, Aus and others carry on pumping out pollutants regardless. Christ, i'm glad i'm old. 

[dave the builder]

As had been said before, what is the sense of little old Britain going carbon neutral when China, India, USA, Aus and others carry on pumping out pollutants regardless. Christ, i'm glad i'm old. 

You'd best stay alive , we can't afford the gas bill to cremate you 

[STEMO]

As had been said before, what is the sense of little old Britain going carbon neutral when China, India, USA, Aus and others carry on pumping out pollutants regardless. Christ, i'm glad i'm old. 

You'd best stay alive , we can't afford the gas bill to cremate you 

Ronny is getting skipped, like me.

[VXL V6]

Bollix to all that crap. You simply cant beat a good old coal fire in winter. No chimney in my current house, but if I ever move again that will be a definite requirement.
Coal or logs burning in the front room is a wonderful thing. Couldnt give a toss what little Greta says. 

Agreed. Every house I've lived in we have had an open fire.