Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: Steve Brookman on 15 December 2015, 19:48:56
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Friend took it to his garage where he works-gave it a once over and it needs two bits of welding and a set of pads for the mot-booked in for the first week in Jan.
Better than I thought.
Other issues.
Will need a centre bearing and holder for the prop.
Speedo-the speedo is original Royale but the engine and box are Monza 3.0i-there is an electronic take off the box-any ideas on how to get a speedo working?
Heater not blowing hot or even luke warm-even when engine up to temp.
Gearbox rear seal leaking.
Strange feeling through the steering such as worn rubber mountings/bushes you can sometimes feel it through the wheel and hear it especially when on full lock-feels a bit similar to the front bush problems on mark 3 Granadas.
Any advice on the above would be more than welcome!
Regards
Steve
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Will it take a Monza cluster :-\
Heater might simply need flushing, but if that fails be a new matrix...
Otherwise, not a bad fail list given its age etc 8)
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Need the speedo drive, should ba a straight swap, lectric to mechanical.
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Keith ABS is your man for both advice and parts,
As said, the Monza additions should make for some 'hybrid' electronics. Personally I think you've done fantastic if that's all that is needed for the MoT, great news :)
Sorry those specific faults are a bit too in-depth for my Royale knowledge. :( Theoretically, as said, you could get the cluster form a Monza, and 'hack it', to run on the Royale's instrumentation. I think the two binnacles for Royale and Monza are different shapes, givent he two shapes of dash, however, would be great if it was just a plug n play, effectively.
There'll be a product on the market, I'm sure to convert the 'modern' electrical signal to the 'old' worm drive/whatever it be on the Royale. Consider people with modern engines they've transplanted into old Mini Coopers with 60s Smiths gauges etc... they must do it somehow. It is doable, that I do know :)
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Would a sat nav not suffice as a speedo for now?
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Speedo failure is an MOT failure, surely?
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Speedo failure is an MOT failure, surely?
Not really unless the tester has reason to drive the vehicle to do say a Tapley test,normal going on a car isn't driven when on test :y
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Speedo failure is an MOT failure, surely?
Not really unless the tester has reason to drive the vehicle to do say a Tapley test,normal going on a car isn't driven when on test :y
It's on the rolling road for the brake test and is definitely a fail.
Speedometer
The car will fail if a speedometer is not fitted, is incomplete, inoperative, has a dial glass broken/missing or cannot be illuminated.
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Speedo failure is an MOT failure, surely?
Not really unless the tester has reason to drive the vehicle to do say a Tapley test,normal going on a car isn't driven when on test :y
It's on the rolling road for the brake test and is definitely a fail.
Speedometer
The car will fail if a speedometer is not fitted, is incomplete, inoperative, has a dial glass broken/missing or cannot be illuminated.
Copied from current MOT Inspection Manual
6.7 Speedometer
Information
This inspection applies to all vehicles first used on or after 01 October 1937.
If the dial glass is cracked, it is not a Reason for Rejection, providing:
there is no possibility of misreading the speedometer or
there is no possibility fouling of the indicator needle or
the cracked glass does not create a safety hazard.
A Tachograph is an acceptable alternative to a speedometer providing it satisfies the requirements of this inspection.
Method of Inspection
1. Check that a speedometer is fitted.
2. Check the condition of the speedometer.
3. Check that the speedometer can be illuminated.
Reason for Rejection
1. Speedometer not fitted.
2. Speedometer incomplete, clearly inoperative or the dial glass broken or missing.
3. The speedometer cannot be illuminated.
In practical terms provided physically the speedo is undamaged, its function is not checked. My local MOT guy would not fail a car for a non working speedo, may give an advisory. If a working tacho fitted, that is an alternative to a speedo anyway under latest regs.
HTH
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Speedo failure is an MOT failure, surely?
Not really unless the tester has reason to drive the vehicle to do say a Tapley test,normal going on a car isn't driven when on test :y
It's on the rolling road for the brake test and is definitely a fail.
Speedometer
The car will fail if a speedometer is not fitted, is incomplete, inoperative, has a dial glass broken/missing or cannot be illuminated.
Rolling road isn't fast enough to register speed on a lot of vehicles :y
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Speedo failure is an MOT failure, surely?
Not really unless the tester has reason to drive the vehicle to do say a Tapley test,normal going on a car isn't driven when on test :y
It's on the rolling road for the brake test and is definitely a fail.
Speedometer
The car will fail if a speedometer is not fitted, is incomplete, inoperative, has a dial glass broken/missing or cannot be illuminated.
Copied from current MOT Inspection Manual
6.7 Speedometer
Information
This inspection applies to all vehicles first used on or after 01 October 1937.
If the dial glass is cracked, it is not a Reason for Rejection, providing:
there is no possibility of misreading the speedometer or
there is no possibility fouling of the indicator needle or
the cracked glass does not create a safety hazard.
A Tachograph is an acceptable alternative to a speedometer providing it satisfies the requirements of this inspection.
Method of Inspection
1. Check that a speedometer is fitted.
2. Check the condition of the speedometer.
3. Check that the speedometer can be illuminated.
Reason for Rejection
1. Speedometer not fitted.
2. Speedometer incomplete, clearly inoperative or the dial glass broken or missing.
3. The speedometer cannot be illuminated.
In practical terms provided physically the speedo is undamaged, its function is not checked. My local MOT guy would not fail a car for a non working speedo, may give an advisory. If a working tacho fitted, that is an alternative to a speedo anyway under latest regs.
HTH
:y :y
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STEMO in technical chit chat :o
Think he needs to know his place that guy, get back in General Discussion :P :P :P
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I've had a MOT pass with a none working speedo ;)
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I was quoting from a document that the AA issued about the changes to MOT in 2012, and that was what I copied.
Tunnie: Read a few of your posts from the outset of the forum, a six year old would make more sense. ;D
Oh, and comments like 'just unplug it and tell sky it won't switch on, they'll send you a new one' aren't that helpful or accurate, esp. from someone who works for sky. ;)
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If I remember rightly series 1 cars had a narrower[top to bottom instrument cluster than the series 1 1/2 cars onwards.Does the heater fan work?Dash mounted switch for fan a known failure point on series 1.11/2 and 2 cars.Did used to have instrument cluster for series 1 but now only have one for series 11/2 or series 2 cars.
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Thanks all,
The blowers work-will have to investigate the heater matrix and controls.
Regards the speedo-had a suggestion to take the top of the transducer on the box and underneath should be the drive gear ready to connect to the cable-will have a look on the weekend.
With the strange movement from the front-I am suspecting these bushes
(http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah18/stevebrookman/bush1_zpsaxjxmgso.jpg) (http://s1376.photobucket.com/user/stevebrookman/media/bush1_zpsaxjxmgso.jpg.html)
(http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah18/stevebrookman/bush2_zpsutwjdiqf.jpg) (http://s1376.photobucket.com/user/stevebrookman/media/bush2_zpsutwjdiqf.jpg.html)
Anyone know what they are called?
Thanks
Steve
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Tie rod bushes ?
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Surely, it be daft not to replace all the front suspension bushes :-\
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Surely, it be daft not to replace all the front suspension bushes :-\
I agree,if they aren't worn out they'll be perished to buggery,all this assuming you can still get new.
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I've had a MOT pass with a none working speedo ;)
So have I. The last one was about 6 weeks ago. The speedo cable inner is broken.
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Looks like wishbone bushes. As you can make out in the pic, Royales have a single, thick box section, with a thinner bar (that looks like anti roll bar, but isn't) coming off at an angle. Not sure if these can still be technically called 'wishbones', not in any way wishbone shaped. But they are, to all intents and purposes, the 'wishbones'.
One assumes that replacements are well NLS, new ones remanufactured, or suitable replacements off a BMW or a Lada, or anywhere in between have been found by now. The issue, like everything on the Royale, is whether you can get them. :)
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Give Pedders a shout... that chassis might have a bit more Australian in it than the Omega...
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Very good thought, actually, the chap's right
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden_Commodore (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden_Commodore)
Basically that was at a point in the DNA where UK and Oz really were - save for badges and some minor details - the same car. Call the V78 cars the 'missing link' of Omegas, if you like.
What that is, is what we'd call a Viceroy. That's not an issue for the OP, as the Viceroy was basically Royale front end on a Carlton mid/rear shell. Reasonably cunning design, make one platform, in beam axle and independent suspension versions, two distinct body styles, which can have front ends swopped (a la Carlton Mk III and Senator B) That way you can make three 'different' cars from two. Down side was the Viceroy sold about 5! (ok, more than that, but now super, super rare)
So, the front suspension should be the same. :)
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Won't guarantee, however, this looks like the stuff....
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SUPERPRO-Holden-Commodore-VB-VC-VH-VK-VL-Front-and-Rear-Suspension-Bush-Kit-/120861480603 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SUPERPRO-Holden-Commodore-VB-VC-VH-VK-VL-Front-and-Rear-Suspension-Bush-Kit-/120861480603)
by 'eck, there's loads when you start digging... :D
http://www.whiteline.com.au/do_segue4.php?make=HOLDEN&model=COMMODORE&model_final=COMMODORE+VB%2C+VC%2C+VH%2C+VK%2C+VL+INCL+HDT+%26+HSV&vehicle=1978-7%2F1988 (http://www.whiteline.com.au/do_segue4.php?make=HOLDEN&model=COMMODORE&model_final=COMMODORE+VB%2C+VC%2C+VH%2C+VK%2C+VL+INCL+HDT+%26+HSV&vehicle=1978-7%2F1988)
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Many thanks yet again!
Looks like I will have to look to Australia for these parts (postage could be a killer!)
Many, many thanks
Regards
Steve
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Many thanks yet again!
Looks like I will have to look to Australia for these parts (postage could be a killer!)
Many, many thanks
Regards
Steve
Some people...
Pedders have a shop/warehouse right next door to Monkfish Performance ::)
Use www.nolathane.com.au to confirm bush dimensions, then cross reference the Pedders numbers and ring them :y
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Thanks again!
Will have to take the arm off to find the correct bushes-there are quite a variety.
Kind regards
Steve
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Thanks for all the replies.
Here is the latest "progress".
1-New prop centre bearing and carrier ordered in a bid to stop vibration.
2-Replaced passenger electric window motor-worked but then found the remainder of the window guide channel.
(http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah18/stevebrookman/Window%20%20Reg_zpsc3epdkxe.jpg) (http://s1376.photobucket.com/user/stevebrookman/media/Window%20%20Reg_zpsc3epdkxe.jpg.html)
Need to find a likewise piece from the scrappy.
3-Got the central locking half working-got a new door loom on the way.
4-Removed rust from the inner frames of the doors-will grind out and epoxy. Will then spray dinotrol into doors.
(http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah18/stevebrookman/Door1_zps2ob68l2p.jpg) (http://s1376.photobucket.com/user/stevebrookman/media/Door1_zps2ob68l2p.jpg.html)
5--Drivers door lock barrel had snapped-replaced it with a later Senator one-had to do quite a bit of fabrication inside the door-but it now locks.
(http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah18/stevebrookman/Lock1_zpsnbu7zu07.jpg) (http://s1376.photobucket.com/user/stevebrookman/media/Lock1_zpsnbu7zu07.jpg.html)
6-Rear gearbox seal is slightly leaking-new one on the way.
Plans after MOT in Jan-eliminate all vibration (hopefully) and start replacing all suspension bushes.
Will paint the suspension with Black epoxy as I go along.
Will also rub down and paint front valence.
Onwards and upwards!
Steve
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Keep it up! Like the work on the barrel. :y
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Afternoon all
Latest update.
Car going for an MOT on Tuesday-needs two small patches welded underneath.
To make it easier (and cheaper!) I removed the rear carpets and loosened the fronts.
(http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah18/stevebrookman/floor3_zps1hdjsclb.jpg) (http://s1376.photobucket.com/user/stevebrookman/media/floor3_zps1hdjsclb.jpg.html)
(http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah18/stevebrookman/floor2_zpsbrppshso.jpg) (http://s1376.photobucket.com/user/stevebrookman/media/floor2_zpsbrppshso.jpg.html)
(http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah18/stevebrookman/floor1_zpsh7qbkezw.jpg) (http://s1376.photobucket.com/user/stevebrookman/media/floor1_zpsh7qbkezw.jpg.html)
Also having the rear gearbox seal changed and a new prop centre bearing and carrier put on.
Brother also made some wheel centre caps for me - I'll get a smaller Vx logo-but ok for now!
(http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah18/stevebrookman/centre_zpsf6pexmqc.jpg) (http://s1376.photobucket.com/user/stevebrookman/media/centre_zpsf6pexmqc.jpg.html)
Will report back when I get the car back!
Cheers
Steve
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Hope all goes well,beware of "small"bits of welding turning into BIG bits of welding :-X
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All going well apart from___
Afternoon all,
I need a rear gearbox seal (goes around output of box or prop) for my Royale.
It's got a later 4 speed auto (with the overdrive switch) from a Monza.
I bought this one
(http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah18/stevebrookman/seal_zpsrdxw1ozv.jpg) (http://s1376.photobucket.com/user/stevebrookman/media/seal_zpsrdxw1ozv.jpg.html)
But it is the wrong size-any help greatly appreciated!
Steve
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Unless such as the ABS can furnish you with a shiny new one, any chance of getting some calipers on the seal to determine its dimensions - that way a motorfactors may well be able to get you one, probably off a Mercedes van or a 70s Lancia, or something else equally obscure. :-\
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Thanks DBG-I think I'll have to go that way!
Many thanks again
Steve
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Just had a look at a seal recommended by a chap on ABS- will go and get it tomorrow from Eriks in Cardiff and give it a go.
Is the 4 speed auto on these an Aisin Warner?
Steve
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If you clean the existing seal there will be some numbers on it.
Any bearing supplier should be able to cross those with whatever supplier they deal with. You can probably do the same on various websites, which will give you an idea of how common a size it is.
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Thanks Nick!
If the one I get tomorrow doesn't fit-I'll get the old one back.
Steve
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Hello all,
Car now MOT'd-had a few patches welded, new brake pads, centre propshaft bearing and gearbox oil seal (I recommend ERIK's).
Came to £300 including the MOT.
Now the hard work begins!
Will now replace the bushes at the front (I have 2 sets) and start the long haul of removing the surface rust from suspension and epoxying it. The front valence will also be rubbed down with a flapdisk and epoxyed.
Looking like I will need an exhaust so may look at stainless-any recommendations?
Will keep posted!
Steve
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Well done! As you say - now it begins!!! All credit to you, and I never even got this far :)
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Good morning all.
A few problems on the Royale.
Went out in it this morning-brakes felt a little spongy (new pads on the front). Drove about 12 miles no issues-got home - went to drop my brother off and brake peddle went to the floor and engine cut out. Engine will now not idle-brakes seem better when throttle held to enable it to run.
I suspected an air leak -but cannot find any-I took the servo hose off and blocked the pipe off the manifold-but still would not idle.
Only thing I noticed when pulling the bonnet after it cut out was the brake fluid was quite high (I drained a little off).
Any thoughts most welcome!!
Steve
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Sadly this was something I never got to the bottom of when I attempted the resto of the Royale.
You've checked vacuum, I'd say check again, also check out the master cylinder/servo, as these can go, which I think would explain your symptoms. Poor idle sounds air leak to me. :-\
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If it still won't idle with the servo vac blanked off then I suspect there's a post carb (I'm assuming carb, here!) air leak..
..possibly unrelated to the brake failure, which sounds more like a failed master cylinder (perhaps it failed and dumped fluid into the servo which the engine ingested causing it to stall, originally?).
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If it still won't idle with the servo vac blanked off then I suspect there's a post carb (I'm assuming carb, here!) air leak..
..possibly unrelated to the brake failure, which sounds more like a failed master cylinder (perhaps it failed and dumped fluid into the servo which the engine ingested causing it to stall, originally?).
In which case, cleaning the carb and re seating it would sort the rough running if the servo vacuum is blanked off, leaving the master cylinder to change/repair... :-\
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Thanks for the replies-unfortunately its 3.0 injection.
Regards
Steve
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Well, in theory, that should make things a little easier for you - at least you don't have the world's fiddliest carb to contend with. Also that engine isn't so different from the lumps in Carltons and Sennys over a decade later, so there should be plenty of lads on here who've owned several, who may be able to help better.
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Thanks!
Got in to stop cutting out by adjusting the throttle position sensor on the air intake-don't know if this affects emissions (MOT in a year so don't care!).
Will try and get another master cylinder (seems to be ok now) or a rebuild kit to be on the safe side.
Thanks
Steve
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It's worthwhile doing the master cylinder of that age, they are known for going. Sorry to not be able to just throw the solution at you, but I think you're in the right area :(
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Thanks-will try and get a seal kit.
Steve
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If you struggle for a Royale specific kit, pretty sure that there's a fair old choice of master cylinders from Carltons, Sennys etc you can use instead without any detrimental effect, quite the reverse in fact. Keep us updated :)
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Thanks
Will have a look at this one for a Carlton-same year-may have to bend a couple of pipes.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/361462522006?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Will measure up and have a look.
I assume with these there are three outputs (two one side of the piston and one the other) to the various brake circuits in case of a pipe failure.
Thanks
Steve
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Have bought a very similar one for a Carlton-looks exactly the same-will give it a go-if not resell the cylinder on the bay.
Steev
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More progress today!
Bled the brakes-don't know if it made a difference as I couldn't take it for a drive as I had painted the front valance with epoxy primer.
(http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah18/stevebrookman/valence_zps3mjdncdm.jpg) (http://s1376.photobucket.com/user/stevebrookman/media/valence_zps3mjdncdm.jpg.html)
At least the bleed nipples opened ok-should have a new master cylinder tomorrow-it's for a Carlton but looks the same.
Investigated the gearbox wiring-found lots of wires and the control box that will not be needed following advice from Leon on Autobahnstormers. The box at present will not go into 4th-it's looking for a signal from the electronic speedo-mine is not electronic. You can replace all this gubbings with a relay and switch-the control box only stops you changing into 3rd above 90mph.
(http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah18/stevebrookman/wires_zpscfv67tvr.jpg) (http://s1376.photobucket.com/user/stevebrookman/media/wires_zpscfv67tvr.jpg.html)
Found out why the dash illumination lights would not work-all bulbs are blown-have ordered some from ebay along with LED replacements (white) which I will give a go and if not too bad will leave them in as they last a lot longer than normal bulbs.
It's a bit of a pain removing the dash.
(http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah18/stevebrookman/dash_zps9v8lq2k1.jpg) (http://s1376.photobucket.com/user/stevebrookman/media/dash_zps9v8lq2k1.jpg.html)
Hope to have the new master cylinder on in the next few days.
Will keep posted.
Regards
Steve
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Interesting little fact (which doesn't help you in the slightest, just thought you might like to know..) that dash, or at least he top portion, is in fact the last production thing Vauxhall designed in this country before the designing was transferred over to Opel.
Keep up the good work :) You've got the better 'box, too, the overdrive top will help economy no end :)
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Thanks DBG!
Found out it'd the blue wire which controls the 4th gear solenoid so will wire in a 12v feed via a switch and relay.
Had the master cylinder through today-looks the right one.
Will spray the front with a rattle can tomorrow so it looks a little bluer-it's only temporary until I get the car sprayed (in about 5 years if lucky!) Epoxy primer is supposed to be the best at stopping eater getting to the metal.
Thanks again
Steve
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Going for a 4 speed auto box over the original 3 speeder is a good move imo I can't now recall by how many revs the change made but comparing a Senator A 3speeder to a Senator B 4 speeder -both 12v engines-I used to get about 25mpg from the A where on the B it was into the 30's on a steady run.Although having said that I once did a 200mile run in the B and burnt 9 gallons doing it.
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Evening all,
Got the dash back together and all instrument lights working yesteday-all bulbs were blown and the rheostat was not working (bypassed it).
Also put an LED into the dash which illuminates the towbar sign-will use this as a warning when I engage 4th on the flick switch.
Ran out of time to get some LED's into the gearbox selector to illuminate the selection.
Got the carpets and seats back in and took it for a spin. Brakes seem much, much better after bleeding them the other week-but will change the master cylinder next weekend. Got the correct one new for £30.
Another problem has reared it's head-seems I have a partially seized drivers front strut. It's hard to push the front corner down and it makes a groaning sound-the passenger side is fine.
Exhaust is knocking-will sort this out when I put the new front pipes on (Thanks Keith ABS!).
Onwards and upwards!
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Sounds very reliable and trouble-free for a Royale! keep it up :)
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Thanks DBG,
Freed off the strut insert-dust cover missing-oiled it and pushed up and down-now a lot better. Fixed passenger window regulator using a Range Rover one for parts.
Removed all the rust from the front valence and epoxy primed it.
Drove around all last weekend in it-goes well. Still need to fit my 4th gear switch and put on my new front down pipes, front bushes etc. Will have a go over Easter.
Should be good in a few years!
Thanks
Steve
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Afternoon all,
More progress-I now have 4th gear working-thanks to advice fromLeon and Craig on ABS forum -makes a massive difference when driving! Put a spare switch in the dash to enable 4th (the box is out of a later Senator with an electronic speedo-mines mechanical so will not switch in 4th) it's the LH heated rear switch.
(http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah18/stevebrookman/dash%20switch_zps9o4cphrn.jpg) (http://s1376.photobucket.com/user/stevebrookman/media/dash%20switch_zps9o4cphrn.jpg.html)
I've also wired in a warning LED to let me know it's on-it's the towing symbol below.
(http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah18/stevebrookman/dash%20led_zpsgkk9rrvi.jpg) (http://s1376.photobucket.com/user/stevebrookman/media/dash%20led_zpsgkk9rrvi.jpg.html)
Now have to replace the sticking front strut!
Steve
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I'm very impressed! That looks a damn fine install. For super-pedantry maybe at some point sort maybe a little 'top' '4' or 'o-drive' decal for the switch?
Well impressed :)
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Have you checked the idle control valve for proper operation?Possibly swap for known good one to check?Will look in GM manual I have for it and see if that gives any more pointers to poor/non-existant idling.
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Thanks for the replies!
Will try and get a little "4" for the display.
Regards the idling-I've cleaned everything out-it will now idle at 1000rpm with the throttle position switch on-have found a Monza breaker in Oxford-will try and get the struts off it to and all the injection system.
Thanks
Steve
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1,000rpm from memory of Senator/Monza ownership is a trifle high.Should be about 950? or was it as low as 850?Sounds like you're getting there though.keep it up :y
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Morning all,
The Royale had been running fine for a few months but then started having running issues. It would sometimes die out and only rev to about 200rpm. After much searing it would clear. Seems like petrol starvation.
The hesitancy became more regular.
I have had the pump and filter for about 6 or 7 weeks so thought it about time!
Took off the filter pump assembly (petrol everywhere!).
Both looked from the mid 80's.
Petrol hose onto low pressure end of pump had been forced on and was cracked/split. I ordered a new bigger diameter pipe.
This was the pipe that went from the tank to the pump. I wonder if the splits caused it to act as a one way valve-allowing air to be sucked I?
Anyway I've ordered new pipe and clips and will put it back together on the weekend.
Here's a picture of work in progress!
(http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah18/stevebrookman/carport2_zpshu2yvpla.jpg) (http://s1376.photobucket.com/user/stevebrookman/media/carport2_zpshu2yvpla.jpg.html)
Used my new hardstand as I didn't want petrol everywhere in the garage.
This I the hardstand in progress.
(http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah18/stevebrookman/shed4_zpslxxlv45s.jpg) (http://s1376.photobucket.com/user/stevebrookman/media/shed4_zpslxxlv45s.jpg.html)
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Good stuff! :) Keep going! ;)
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Friend took it to his garage where he works-gave it a once over and it needs two bits of welding and a set of pads for the mot-booked in for the first week in Jan.
Better than I thought.
Other issues.
Will need a centre bearing and holder for the prop.
Speedo-the speedo is original Royale but the engine and box are Monza 3.0i-there is an electronic take off the box-any ideas on how to get a speedo working?
Heater not blowing hot or even luke warm-even when engine up to temp.
Gearbox rear seal leaking.
Strange feeling through the steering such as worn rubber mountings/bushes you can sometimes feel it through the wheel and hear it especially when on full lock-feels a bit similar to the front bush problems on mark 3 Granadas.
Any advice on the above would be more than welcome!
Regards
Steve
Hi Steve
Sweet car by the way. I had one exact same, still got a back badge and both back bumper steel corners if you want them.
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Thanks all,
Grifter that would be great-but I'm a little way from you! What colour was yours?
Update.
Replaced the pump and filter. Took it for a spin for about 45 mins all well. Seemed to go better as well (placebo effect?).
Parked it up-came out a couple of hours later-started it and same problem.
Popped the bonnet-revved it it popped and cleared. Took the top off the air mass meter (or whatever it is called) and moved the flap back and forth and wiped the resistance track lightly.
Took it for a run for over an hour-cruising gently and redlining (it does shift!) and no problem-will give the flap a good clen with carb cleaner later.
Steve
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Thanks all,
Grifter that would be great-but I'm a little way from you! What colour was yours?
Steve
Hi Steve
Sure if you want them just give me a shout. Mine's was the same colour as yours. Not sure of the exact name of the colour though.
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Thanks all,
Grifter that would be great-but I'm a little way from you! What colour was yours?
Steve
Hi Steve
Sure if you want them just give me a shout. Mine's was the same colour as yours. Not sure of the exact name of the colour though.
Blue.
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Thanks all,
Grifter that would be great-but I'm a little way from you! What colour was yours?
Steve
Hi Steve
Sure if you want them just give me a shout. Mine's was the same colour as yours. Not sure of the exact name of the colour though.
Blue.
Smartarse. :)
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Thanks all,
Grifter that would be great-but I'm a little way from you! What colour was yours?
Steve
Hi Steve
Sure if you want them just give me a shout. Mine's was the same colour as yours. Not sure of the exact name of the colour though.
Blue.
Smartarse. :)
Lol fell into the trap!
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Took the Royale for an MOT this week-passed today!
Has been off the road for a few months.
Joy was short lived as driving from my mothers it cut out-would not re-start.
Could be ignition/ petrol pump/relay.
Got it recovered-will have a look when I get time.
Here's the miscreant!
(https://i.imgur.com/ZolF61l.jpg)
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I had the run out model of the series 1 Senator,a series 2 Senator and a series 2 Monza-still have an instrument cluster[speedo etc] from the series 2- which were the same[or very close]colour I believe it was called Helios Blue.
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Had a quick look today-there's a spark-used my spark tester! and power getting to the pump-couldn't hear the pump-so suspecting this or fuel pick up /sender unit in the tank.
Steve
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i could be wrong but i assume yours is one of the larger early fuel pump relays.( different to the one on your other senator ?) they are a bit harder to source but you could try running a live to the fuel pump to check it. To eliminate relay as faulty or not.on the later cars the relay also powers the injectors with a perm live ,not sure about the early ones.
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Thanks again Chris!
I'll see if there's any fuel getting through tomorrow-I'll take a pipe off in the engine bay. If there is, I'll assume a problem with the ECU block firing the injectors.
Regards
Steve
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Yeah .sorry i misread your post. You said you had power to the pump. Yes if you remove return hose to tank you should get fuel when pump is powered up. When cranking or try in cranking position but with small starter spade pulled off.( allows you to test pump with aid of an assistant but not unnesesary flattening of battery / unnesseary cranking. ) then once you have confirmed fuel ,confirm spark again. Confirm live to one terminal of any injector plug.injectors will only fire when ecu gets a signal from distributor neg side so check green wires are all sound.also if yours is an early type there is a resistor block in series with all the injectors .make sure relay is ok and connected properly. Haynes book shows this and any associated wire colours.
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Thanks Chris.
That's a good idea removing the trigger to the starter!
Weather permitting I'll have a go tomorrow.
Senator and Royale totally different.
Senator smooth, quiet and comfortable.
Royale very quick (even by modern standards)-but noisier and less comfortable.
Steve
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Had a quick fiddle after work-took a fuel pipe off in the engine bay and no fuel when cranking-so sounds like the pump (new one on 18months ago and filter).
Will investigate further when I get a little more time and it's not raining.
Will see if there's any petrol at the tank outlet as well.
Steve
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Had a quick fiddle after work-took a fuel pipe off in the engine bay and no fuel when cranking-so sounds like the pump (new one on 18months ago and filter).
Will investigate further when I get a little more time and it's not raining.
Will see if there's any petrol at the tank outlet as well.
Steve
Cheapy pattern pumps don't last too long... also, check the pipe hasn't dropped of the cover plate if an internal pump :y
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I can't remember if the pump is in tank or external on these[it's been many years since I was last under one]but if it's an external pump have you tried giving it a tap with a hammer while someone cranks the starter to see if this "jolts"it into life?
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external pump. just sits on a bracket underneath the car above rear axle. the pump type is common to most injected vauxhalls of that era.carltons,manta,cavalier mk2 and 3 so should be plenty available. steve.have you tried powering the pump directly to eliminate the pump or a live or neg fault.?
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Thanks all,
Grifter that would be great-but I'm a little way from you! What colour was yours?
Steve
Hi Steve
Sure if you want them just give me a shout. Mine's was the same colour as yours. Not sure of the exact name of the colour though.
Blue.
Smartarse. :)
Lol fell into the trap!
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Thanks all!
Did put a new one on about 12 Months ago-will check for power at the pump-there is power on the main feed when cranking. I'll jack it up and put on axle stands and get under Friday night or the weekend-I can get under-but y belly gets in the way! I've got a spare pump I bought a while back-it's a "generic" one-slightly smaller but same pressure-I'll also order another Delphi.
Will also have a look to see if there is petrol actually coming out of the tank.
Will also give it a bang!
Thanks again
Steve
Steve
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yes report back after weekend with your findings. the pumps on these are easy to hear running so if yours appears not to then idealy it will be a loose wire on the pump or a corroded earth. especially if you have confirmed a live from the relay end. to be honest the original bosch pumps on these are generally reliable but obviously anything can fail. nothing lasts forever.from looking at pictures the delphi and other aftermarket pumps do look very very similar to the bosch originals. not compared any side to side or internally though just to see what differences if any ?
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Thanks Chris,
Update, Had a bit of time last night and dropped the pump and filter.
Pump is not working.
Should have a new (Delphi) one in on Monday so will whip it back on and see.
One thing I did notice was the orientation of the pump and filter and fuel flow.
On this car the pump is first followed by the filter-wouldn't it make more sense filter then pump.
Regards
Steve
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I think that's the correct way :-\
Tank pick up should have a coarse filter on it, and the pump pushes the relatively clean fuel through the filter...
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Yes it is strange-had a look under my Senator and that's the same.
Steve
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A full-on fuel filter will be too restrictive for the pump to suck through, so it's normal to locate it after the pump. There should be a gauze either in the tank or in the pump inlet. Since you've had a pump fail relatively quickly, it might be worth double checking that it's getting a clean fuel supply.
Can also post-mortem the old one and see if the internals are badly scored.
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will do!
Steve
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Yes it is strange-had a look under my Senator and that's the same.
Steve
They're all like that.
Modern ones are no different: the pump is in the tank, and the filter in the supply line.
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Yeah all standard stuff. Also theres no other way of fitting it wrong either because the pump inlet is large bore just like the tank outlet (12mm if i recal) and everything else is 8mm.if the pump doeasnt work now you have got it out and on a bench with a supply to it then it just sounds like a faulty pump and a new one should sort it.
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New one should be here tomorrow.
I replaced the kaput one about 15 months ago-wonder if the end of the pickup with the gauze has dropped off.
Steve
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Its possible but ive never seen it happen.i think if i remember correctly its a metal gauze in a type of "sock shape! On the end of the pick up pipe .if you remove tank unit to check be carefull with the rubber gasket.(it should be re usesble thou) and watch out for the sender unit earth spade. It 99.9% of the time is so corroded that it breaks off.many a cause of fuel level guage innacuracies.if it does break off you can either solder a wire to the remaining metal or put a eye lug on one of the mounting bolts. Or if you dont want to dissturb tank at all manta gte coupes were fitted with an inline tank filter .plastic canister with 12mm hose stubs.if you can find one.
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Thanks Chris,
May have to take sender out eventually as the petrol gauge has stopped working-shorting out the lead gets it to max-so must be sender.
Will have a look for one of those filters.
Thanks again
Steve
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It may be the sender but in my experience its the earth wire on the sender that fails due to rust on the totally exposed earth spade connection.if you are not disturbing the tank i would reccomend removing the earth spade .cleaning up whats left of the terminal(you dont need much)and soldering a lead directly to it. Create a nice new clean earth screw under the floor somewhere and that should fix it.
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Back up and running-was the pump-so maybe debris in the tank or a dodgy pump.
Nowhere near as refined as the Senator-but bloody fast!!
Steve
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Just out of curiosity .you have a series 1 senator and royale ? Both 3 litre ? Untill the later b series came out in 87 they remained pretty much similar mechanically. Yet you say they are both very different. What are the differences as in standard form ive had these cars from the mid eighties and not. NOticed any drastic differences performance or comfort wise from any of the models from 1979 up until 1986. ( in standard form )
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Were the diff ratios different Royale coupe to Senator?If so the fact he's got a 4sp box in the Royale may make a difference?Wouldn't have thought there'd be a deal in it to be honest,but obviously SB notices the change.The only difference;if such there was]between the Senator and the Monza I had was the Senator seemed to me more stable in cross winds and for whatever reason I always preferred driving the Senator.
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The Royale has a later engine and box from a Monza-when I mention comfort, the Royale is far noisier-especially wind noise (seems to be from passenger window-will have a look!) and a little harsher on the suspension.
The Senator is muck quieter and has a far softer ride.
Performance wise-the Royale is quick-it may be the gearing-in 4th its doing 25mph per 1000rpm-I did read that some later Senators were near 30mph per 1000rpm-so shorter diff?
When I say quick -it's quicker than an Omega 3.0 I once had and quicker than a 2.8i Capri.
Senator is no slouch-but slower off the mark-although when kicking down you have to be careful around 40mph as it will drop into 1st.
Steve
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It may be that the firmer car has non gm springs or shocks fitted.who knows whats been changed in the past. The original senator and royale equivalent were pretty identical when new.not having a brochure to hand i dont think there was an option for heavy duty rear suspension ? So they should be very much the same. Are they both saloons ? . The coupe was a bit more known for wind noise and also a slight difference with the early vs later door mirror design could add to this ? .obviously there could be differences between the engines as well due to age or maintenance . Either way they are great cars and very comfy. Helped by the seats no doubt or tyre choice etc. Nice to know you got it running again .thats good news and did you experiment with the sender unit earth lead ?
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Thanks Chris,
The Royale is a coupe.
Had a quick fiddle-but it was raining and I was trying to get the pump on-. Next weekend I'll get it up on the ramps in the garage and check the sender.
Cheers
Steve
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Swapping the Royale over with the Senator for weekend duties. Senator used most weekdays-Royale weekends.
(http://i.imgur.com/kEK8VtUb.jpg) (https://imgur.com/kEK8VtU)