Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Tezray on 16 July 2006, 21:36:40
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...On my headgasket replacement! Should have the heads off tomorrow and tbh it's all gone fairly well so far. I'm not really looking forward to removing the engine lift bracket or PAS pump tomorrow, but hey ho. Here's a pic of it's current state;
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/tezray/Enginestrip.jpg)
I spent some of today degreasing the plenum and throttle body, they were bloody filthy! I'm just trying to decide wether or not to replace the oil cooler whilst i've got her stripped down....any thoughts? If i don't replace it i'll put some fresh sealer around it. I'll also be fitting a new thermostat while i'm at it.
Once all this is done and she's back up and running again, it's xe flywheel time :D
Terry
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I would do the oil cooler, thermostat, water pump while in this state
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Oil cooler kit can be got for about 60-70 quid plus the sealant (if you struggle, PM me and I will post one to you).
It looks like you have a valley leak anyway (traces of pink).
One option that helps make the thermostat change a bit cheaper is to buy a 2.0 one and swap the insert over, then use the original gasket with some of the oil cooler cover gunk on it to help it seal.
The bolt for the lifting bracket/stat bridge pipe/dipstick tube is not so bad, get it moving with an open ended spanner first (I know its a torx bolt but it can be done) then with a bit of wiggling of the above you shoudl be able to uncrew it with your fingers.
Dont unbolt the stat yet as you need to get the bridge pipe out, to do this requires a pry bar or similar to ease it out (it can be dam tight)
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while your in there might as well do it bud !! ;)
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While access is good best to do it whilst your there, covers all possible future problems then. :)
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Thanks for the advice people :)
I should change the cooler really, i'm just struggling on funds at the moment :( But i probably will......And i may go for the 2.0 stat, but depends if there's enough of a price difference to warrant the hassle.
Wasn't as succesfull as i hoped today, but i've got the drivers head off and will be attacking the passenger tomorrow. The headgasket blew on the middle cylinder (number 3?), but otherwise looks in ok shape after covering 158k! Afew pics;
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/tezray/Headoff.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/tezray/Driversbores.jpg)
The metal coolant pipe that runs behind the drivers had was a complete break ass! And the oil cooler pipes that go into the block weren't a lot of fun either :exclamation But got there in the end.....
*EDIT* I've been meaning to ask a question but keep forgetting! After my 600 mile 'run-in' how important is it to re-torque the head bolts? As it's a mamouth job (because the cams have to be removed) i'd rather not do it......The haynes book says to torque them to 25NM, then rotate (in sequence) by 90 degree's 4 times, then finally by 15 degree's.
Could i just initially torque them to 27NM and then do the rotating stages? Thus if/when the head bolts stretch by a few thou, they should hopefully be near the 25NM as required? Sounds like a plan to me, but any thoughts on this? I suppose the extra torque could up the risk of cracking the head or the bolts may just stretch to the same extent anway? Or by me tightening them up more i'm just causing unnecessary force/pressure?
I'd just really like not to strip the engine down again and have to have it re-timed :-/
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Not that I am a pro on the subject and what you have done so far looks impressive.
If it was me I would probably follow the haynes as the risk of messing it up is too high with the Head stretch bolts I guess there would be a risk of over torquing and the things snapping, not good.
HTH
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That is a very good point and i do want to do everything perfectly, it just seems like such an ar5e having to strip everything down again! I haven't read what the haynes says on refitting yet, i'm just going off some information given to me by someone on 'the old forum' lol
Anywho, got the heads off! Passenger side was definately easier than the drivers side, just messier! Pic of how it looks now;
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/tezray/headsoff.jpg)
I shall commence work on the heads ASAP :)
One thing happened when removing one of the 3 earth's that run to the back of the head though, the bolt sheared on the middle earth >:( Would it be possible to just bolt this down with one of the other earth's? Or should they be seperate? Because drilling out the sheared thread is not an option dut to space constraints.....
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you're on a mission, am I right in thinking the oil cooler is the part smack bang in the middle.
You might be lucky, and the haynes may say torque down just the once.
Dont know what to suggest for the earth cables but good luck in getting it sussed.
I am sure someone else will be able to advise.
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Oil cooler is in the middle
Dont worry about stripping it down to re-torque the bolts, haynes is, yet again wrong! I suspect its a hang over from the old 4 pot 8 valve days......
You will be fine just bolting the earth cables to one of the remaining studs.
Looking good!
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Thanks peeps :)
Very usefull info as usual! New thermo and oil cooler will hopefully sort my valley leak. Will be ordering those 2+head gasket set tomorrow from autovaux. Only £91+VAT from autovaux for (i presume) the genuine kit and head bolts. Heads will be getting crack tested and hopefully all will be fine, if so they'll be skimmed (and hopefully acid dipped if available).
I managed to spill power steering fluid all over my aircon compressor/pump today as well.....Should i just clean it up with engine degreaser, like gunk?
All the pistons and bores appear to be in great condition! The passenger head gasket however appeared to be on it's way out very soon....It was in worse condition than the drivers bank! With the exception of the break between water jacket and combustion chamber ;D
Thanks for your help ;)
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You don't have to re-torque the cylinder heads - thats only on the old asbestos head gaskets (never used on V6 engine)- and the torque is 25NM and 3x 90 degrees(not 4) - thats 3 times round from the center working out. the 15 degrees is a tolerance.
The coolant inlet pipe is much easier to remove if you remove the 2-4-6 head first -this gives you much more access to the 2 E10 bolts I know for some unknown reason the TIS (and probably the haynes) instructs you to remove the 1-3-5 head first - but that is just 'dangle berries'. (I built the engine so know when I read utter 'dangle berries')
also if you wait (too late now) till both heads are off - the heat exchanger & oil pipes are very easy to remove.
You can use the same grey sealant to re-seal the vent housing (rear of the 1-3-5 head) good idea to clean that out at this stage.
remember to use new washers on the oil pipes (4 off) and new dowty washers on the water bridge.
...On my headgasket replacement! Should have the heads off tomorrow and tbh it's all gone fairly well so far. I'm not really looking forward to removing the engine lift bracket or PAS pump tomorrow, but hey ho. Here's a pic of it's current state;
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/tezray/Enginestrip.jpg)
I spent some of today degreasing the plenum and throttle body, they were bloody filthy! I'm just trying to decide wether or not to replace the oil cooler whilst i've got her stripped down....any thoughts? If i don't replace it i'll put some fresh sealer around it. I'll also be fitting a new thermostat while i'm at it.
Once all this is done and she's back up and running again, it's xe flywheel time :D
Terry
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Thanks for that, i'll just torque it up the once then! Makes my life a whole lot easier!
Good point about the coolant inlet pipe too, i wish i had removed the passenger head first really, but at the time the drivers one appeared to be the easier one....But i will fit the drivers head back on first i think.
Just been cleaning stuff up today like the coolant pipes, cam followers and removed the exhaust manifolds (no sheared studs!!). Thanks to mark on the 2.0 thermo tip, just removed the stat from the 2.0 housing and swapped the new one into my housing :)
One thing i'm not sure on is my cams....They're all rusted up and i'm not sure wether i should clean them up with engine degreaser/white spirit? Seems like a good idea to me, but thought i'd see what you think.
While everything's apart i'm going to replace the oil cooler. However i'm also considering replacing the dispac, but funds are very low atm. It was running perfectly before the headgasket, so is it really worth it? How much is a new one? About £90? It'd save me a lot of hassle if it will die on me in the future, but are they fairly robust if kept dry?
Cheers ;)
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The cams are rusted up?
Try some T-cut or similar, they are hardened so it can only be surface rust.....
I wouldn't worry about the dis pack, they are not to hard to change using the 'DTM' method any way.
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Yes it's just surface rust, which infact proved quite usefull because i took pictures of each cam and it's position before i removed them. Then when i removed them i got the passenger head cams mixed up so i just referred to my pictures and the markings on the cams :)
What exactly is the 'DTM' method though?? Hopefully not lifting the engine out to gain access lol
I was going to heat wrap the exhaust manifolds, but i didn't realise what a crap shape they are and i'm not sure i'll be able to :-?
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*QUICK QUESTION!*
Is it right that my no.3 and no.6 piston appear to be at the top of their stroke? And the others appear to be at the bottom? It's supposed to be set at 60 degree's BTDC :-?
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4 Valves done, only 20 to go! ;D
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/tezray/4valvesdone.jpg)
It would be going a lot quicker, but getting the time is a bit difficult at the moment......Got my headgasket set through now and also my new oil cooler. So once the valves are done, they're going off to be skimmed and then i'll be building it all back up :)
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Keep at it mate, you will really feel a sense of acheivement when its done. Wish I had the know-how and the balls to tackle something that big. Good luck [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
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Thanks mate ;)
Need a bit of advice now though.....If i cant get this valve cleaner than this by using 600 grit paper, should I;
A.) Use something more heavy duty, e.g. 200 grit paper or a file lol
B.) Re-seat it and be happy with it
c.) Replace the valve
Here's the valve in question and by the looks of it i may have a few like this;
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/tezray/dirtyvalve.jpg)
At the moment i'm thinking of using something more heavy duty.....
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Sorted! Thanks to James' (Vectrolysis) top notch advice :)
Just used 600 grit with warm soapy water and its now got a mirror finish! lol
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Exactly, do the faces and rears......much easier if you put them in a drill clamped in a vice or have access to a pillar drill....
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Well i finished off the drivers head the other day and it looks like this;
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/tezray/driversheadfinished.jpg)
I also slightly polished the exhaust ports;
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/tezray/exhaustports.jpg)
And made sure the inlet ports were nice and clean;
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/tezray/inletports.jpg)
Admittedly this is taking me ages! Mainly because i have a lot going on at the moment. I want to set aside a solid day to do the passenger head and i think i can have it finished in a day. I serioulsy cannot wait to get the meega back on the road :(
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Tezray looks to me your doing a grand job
Looks very impressive what you have done so far.
Keep up the good work
Roy
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Cheers Roy ;)
I'm getting much quicker at doing each valve now, it's getting the collets back on that is a complete a-hole sometimes lol And i'm not a vary patient person!
Should be good once the engines all back up and together again. Touch wood i should have a fair few miles of trouble free motoring....Once it's rebuilt it will have had;
-New radiator
-Crank sensor
-Oil cooler
-Thermostat
-Rocker cover, exhaust, head, basically every gasket under the sun!
-Cambelt kit fitted around 2K ago
So let's hope she runs like she's just rolled out the factory :)
Have you got any pics of your Black omega? I've always wanted a black omega....You don't see them anywhere!
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Cheers Roy ;)
Have you got any pics of your Black omega? I've always wanted a black omega....You don't see them anywhere!
Unfortunately I haven't taken pictures of it yet, most of it is now sorted just needs the bodywork tidying up a little and an MOT then its jobs a goodun shall see if I can get some half decent piccys with my phone.
Seen a few black omega's but like you say, not many about.
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Cheers Roy ;)
I'm getting much quicker at doing each valve now, it's getting the collets back on that is a complete a-hole sometimes lol And i'm not a vary patient person!
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'Glue' them to the end of a screw driver with a spot of grease, and do the same on to the valve stem.
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Cheers Roy ;)
Have you got any pics of your Black omega? I've always wanted a black omega....You don't see them anywhere!
Unfortunately I haven't taken pictures of it yet, most of it is now sorted just needs the bodywork tidying up a little and an MOT then its jobs a goodun shall see if I can get some half decent piccys with my phone.
Seen a few black omega's but like you say, not many about.
Tezray - fantastic work well done so far mate :)
and as for black omegas mine can be seen here
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1153038412
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Looking good.....thats the sort of detailed approach I take to head re-building, clean everything, port it a little, re-fit......remember that if you get any horrible black oily spots or stuck carbon that paint stripper is safe with alloy and very good at getting carbon off.
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... I've always wanted a black omega....You don't see them anywhere!
my old one's pictured here (http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1153516924/9#9) - it's in cornwall now though ...
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You're doing a great job there mate. An education for some of us on here. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
Hope she fires up first turn of the key.
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Markiec and sounds2k, both very nice omega's! I think they look fantastic in black tbh, maybe in the future i can find myself a nice black elite :)
Andy B, i have considered that option but i don't like using grease in the heads tbh....I could wash it off with parafin i suppose. With the spring clamp in position it's also hard to get good access to the collets as well ::)
Kev and Mark, thanks very much ;) I have been struggling with some stuff stuck on the heads, but i've been using engine degreaser...i'll keep paint stripper in mind though for tougher stuff. I'm attacking the passenger head tomorrow and hoping to get the majority (if not all) of it done.....then it's off to the machine shop to get them skimmed! Then the rebuild begins :)
As for starting on the first turn of the key, in my dreams! ;D But hopefully all will go my way....Fingers crossed.
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Only skim the heads if they need skimming, get the machine shop to check flatness first as on a V engine, taking material off the heads tends to push the inlet manifold out of alignment (depends how much you take off). Plus the V6 heads rarely warp.
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But if he only took off afew thou surely that couldn't make that much difference to how the manifolds line up? But if you think it could be a problem, then i'll get him to check them first. The engine didn't overheat when the gasket went, so i thought they way not have warped.
But for about 3-4 weeks previously the engine had been running hotter than normal (it'd raise to just over 97.5 degree's, whereas normally it'd barely venture over 95), so i was concerned this may have warped them slightly.
Also, i was looking forward to slightly higher compression lol
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If you want higher compression then fit the 2.5 heads......with the 3.0 exhaust valves.
A few thou would probably be ok but, not worth doing if they are already flat........the Rover ones are amusing as I have seen 30 thou taken off them and the inlet manifolds then need stuff removing to get them on....
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I was considering the 2.5 heads, but decided i didn't want to start messing about with things, i'd rather get it fixed! Well i'll take your advice then and have them checked for flatness.....Could i not do that myself though?
I'm also going to heatwrap the exhaust manifolds before re-fitting, any advice on where to go for the heatwrap? Demon tweeks?
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Its hard to heat wrap the manifolds as there is nothing to wrap the material around plus the hear shields do a very good job of reducing the heat.
You could try checking the heads are true if you have a very good straight edge.
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I was going to try to 'lay' the heatwrap on them, i was hoping it would stick! I'm going to have a look at the heads now...
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*****UPDATE*****
Finshed the passenger head today! So it'll be off to the machinist tomorrow to get them checked for 'trueness' and if they need skimming they'll be skimmed.....Then it's engine rebuild time :)
Pics;
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/tezray/passengerheadfinished.jpg)
Passenger head that i finished today......
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/tezray/bothheadsfinished.jpg)
Both the heads together......So that's 24 polished + re-seated valves, 24 new valve stem seals, heads cleaned up, exhuast ports and manifolds polished and inlet and exhuast ports matched (casting marks smoothed out). Should be a cracker when she's back up and running :D
Any tips on cleaning up the cylinders and piston crowns? Or any general tips on the rebuild? Cheers,
Terry
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There might be a small amount of carbon at the top of the bores, I bet there is no wear though.
Similarly for the piston crown, small carbon build up but nothing much.
I use a stanley knife blade at a shallow angle to just scrape the crabon off.
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Or, to minimise any risk of scratching something when you don't want to, use a wooden or plastic scraper - the classic is an old toothbrush handle, ground (or filed) to provide a sharp edge which will remove the carbon safely. A smear of grease round the top of the bores as you clean the crowns should stop any crud getting to the rings, but looking at the care you have taken so far, you had probably thought of that already. Hope it continues to go well!
GB
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Thanks for the advice guys [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
I must admit i thought a stanley knife might be a bit dangerous, but i'll see how stuck on it is tommorrow. I haven't really had a good look yet, just smeared grease all over them when the heads came off.
If i did put a tiny scratch in a piston crown/cylinder, should i just use 1500 grit to try to smooth it over? Just to try to polish it out?
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Pity I have been away - I have a special tool to get the collets in - makes the job a lot easier ;)
Cheers Roy ;)
I'm getting much quicker at doing each valve now, it's getting the collets back on that is a complete a-hole sometimes lol And i'm not a vary patient person!
Should be good once the engines all back up and together again. Touch wood i should have a fair few miles of trouble free motoring....Once it's rebuilt it will have had;
-New radiator
-Crank sensor
-Oil cooler
-Thermostat
-Rocker cover, exhaust, head, basically every gasket under the sun!
-Cambelt kit fitted around 2K ago
So let's hope she runs like she's just rolled out the factory :)
Have you got any pics of your Black omega? I've always wanted a black omega....You don't see them anywhere!
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Thanks for the advice guys [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
I must admit i thought a stanley knife might be a bit dangerous, but i'll see how stuck on it is tommorrow. I haven't really had a good look yet, just smeared grease all over them when the heads came off.
If i did put a tiny scratch in a piston crown/cylinder, should i just use 1500 grit to try to smooth it over? Just to try to polish it out?
You will be hard pushed to scratch the bore with a stanley knife blade, as said, just keep the angle shallow.....the piston crown you might a bit but, its not as important.....a green scourer also does the piston tops quite nicely.
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don't forget to take your dowels out of the head and put them back in the block.
V6 head don't normally need re-skimming unless the temp goes upto 120 degs - thats the point were they warp!!!!!! although its common to find some errosion around the water jacket face.
2.5 heads have a different shaped combustion chamber - total different shaped head gasket - don't think you would see much of a difference in performance by increasing the compression due to the engine management using anti knock control.
The best 3.0L gaskets to use would have been from a 3.0L saab turbo - these were also used on the later cadilac catera - they were metal ply gaskets same type used on 2.6 & 3.2L V6 engines.
*****UPDATE*****
Finshed the passenger head today! So it'll be off to the machinist tomorrow to get them checked for 'trueness' and if they need skimming they'll be skimmed.....Then it's engine rebuild time :)
Pics;
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/tezray/passengerheadfinished.jpg)
Passenger head that i finished today......
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/tezray/bothheadsfinished.jpg)
Both the heads together......So that's 24 polished + re-seated valves, 24 new valve stem seals, heads cleaned up, exhuast ports and manifolds polished and inlet and exhuast ports matched (casting marks smoothed out). Should be a cracker when she's back up and running :D
Any tips on cleaning up the cylinders and piston crowns? Or any general tips on the rebuild? Cheers,
Terry
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Got the heads back today, freshly skimmed :) I talked to the bloke in the shop and he said I should have them skimmed really as a matter of course....And tbh i really wouldn't want to rebuild it and then find a problem so i had them done;
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/tezray/skimmedheads.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/tezray/skimmedhead.jpg)
The rebuild should commence very soon, i'm just trying to steal some of James' (Vectrolysis) time away from his new child to get me started off! V6man, thanks for the info....Tbh it is fairly impressive that these head gaskets have lasted for 158K! I'm sure if i keep the car long enough the engine will die of bottom end failier before the gaskets go again! Oh i cant wait :-/ ;D
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I trust they took the same amount off each head?
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Supposedly ;D
Seriously though the guy really knows his stuff and both heads appear to be the same....
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Those dowels in the head should be fitted to the block - they hold the head gasket inplace while you are re-fitting the heads.
In the factory we used to fill the bore size etchings (0 or 1) on the block with Omnifit before we fitted the gaskets- this is the same stuff used for the front A bearing cam caps - I bought mine from ebay cheap.
The bore size markings were causing coolant leaks in the V - the markings were moved on later engines 2.6 & 3.2.
The same stuff (Omnifit) was also aplied to both sides of the head gaskets with a roller.
thats why the head gasket breaks off and bits stick to the head / block.
This process was only stopped when the metal ply gaskets were introduced.
Supposedly ;D
Seriously though the guy really knows his stuff and both heads appear to be the same....
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Well it looks like my rebuild might be delayed.....So of you may know that i'm a student and i'm studying Motorsport engineering and my course involves a placement year. I've managed to get a placement at a place called Grant Motorsport and speaking to Grant today i got talking about my rebuild......Anyway, basically he's offered to have my cams re-profiled by Piper for £221+VAT (normally £110+VAT per cam), gas flow+port my heads for £200 per head (normally £450 per head) and chip and and set it up on the rollers for £300 (normally £500). He estimates that my engine would then be putting out around 240-250 BHP :o
The main thing that puts me off is;
A: The money (I'm a poor student!!)
B: The extent my bottom end would cope with this extra power
He said the cams alone would give me roughly an extra 20BHP, so i'm considering just getting the cams done, rebuilding her and then possibly in the future have her re-mapped. What are peoples opinions on this? Whatever happens, it's going to set my rebuild back by about 2 weeks-1 month :(
In my opinion, the cams sound like a very good idea as it will feel a lot more responsive to drive but i don't think it'll upset my bottom end.....It also won't upset my bank balance too much lol
Opinions welcome :)
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Well it looks like my rebuild might be delayed.....So of you may know that i'm a student and i'm studying Motorsport engineering and my course involves a placement year. I've managed to get a placement at a place called Grant Motorsport and speaking to Grant today i got talking about my rebuild......Anyway, basically he's offered to have my cams re-profiled by Piper for £221+VAT (normally £110+VAT per cam), gas flow+port my heads for £200 per head (normally £450 per head) and chip and and set it up on the rollers for £300 (normally £500). He estimates that my engine would then be putting out around 240-250 BHP :o
The main thing that puts me off is;
A: The money (I'm a poor student!!)
B: The extent my bottom end would cope with this extra power
He said the cams alone would give me roughly an extra 20BHP, so i'm considering just getting the cams done, rebuilding her and then possibly in the future have her re-mapped. What are peoples opinions on this? Whatever happens, it's going to set my rebuild back by about 2 weeks-1 month :(
In my opinion, the cams sound like a very good idea as it will feel a lot more responsive to drive but i don't think it'll upset my bottom end.....It also won't upset my bank balance too much lol
Opinions welcome :)
If it is placement - perhaps they will let youy pay in installments
GO FOR IT! ;)
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I would just get the heads done, cams can be swapped out considerably easier then ripping heads off.....
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you did remember to finger some oil on the cams/followers so they turn nice and easy before oil pressure is built up when you crank her (with the plug leads off) for the first time right? suppose its not a necessity tho and you could probably get away without doing it.
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Martin, he said if i want he could just take it straight out of my pay! ;D
My main concern tbh is that all these mods and the increase in power will really upset the bottom end, especially after 158K, what do you guys think? Because the last thing i'd want to do is spend loads of money increasing the performance, only to kill the engine! lol
For the money's sake and protecting the bottom end, i was actually considering just doing the cams and then maybe further down the line chipping her.....I do see your point on getting the heads done though Mark.
Dmcl, when i rebuild her i'll give the cams, heads and followers generous amounts of oil trust me! ;)
It would be incredible if i did near 250bhp and fit my xe flywheel, she really would fly then :o
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The bottom end is pretty strong, even has a girdle for extra support.
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Martin, he said if i want he could just take it straight out of my pay! ;D
My main concern tbh is that all these mods and the increase in power will really upset the bottom end, especially after 158K, what do you guys think? Because the last thing i'd want to do is spend loads of money increasing the performance, only to kill the engine! lol
For the money's sake and protecting the bottom end, i was actually considering just doing the cams and then maybe further down the line chipping her.....I do see your point on getting the heads done though Mark.
Dmcl, when i rebuild her i'll give the cams, heads and followers generous amounts of oil trust me! ;)
It would be incredible if i did near 250bhp and fit my xe flywheel, she really would fly then :o
Hello mate,
it sounds very good offer and it will indeed be a good upgrade. I agree with your concern about the bottom end taking the power. Basically what i would do is to do a bottom end rebuilt and replace at least big end shells and mains+ thrust bearing. Also check what grade the con rod bolts are and upgrade to 12.9 grade if they are not as standard(anyway you will need new bolts). Or you can go forward with the upgrade and just take it easy and hope for the best anyway 158k is not that much.
At that level of tuning i would replace the exhaust manifolds, you could design your own manifolds using the WAVE code by ricardo, ask in your university if they have it.
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Some good points, shells and bolts!
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Thanks for all your advice, much appreciated :)
I think i've decided though......Just to go for the cams for the time being and get rebuilding her. I know it would be good to get the heads done, but here are my reasons for not;
- £400 for approx. 10BHP
- Can't afford it all! ;D
- I didn't want to make such a big project out of the omega
- It'd set back my rebuild by at least 2-3 weeks, whereas the cams i can get done now
- I'd be very happy with the cams, my xe flywheel and a possible re-map further down the line (once the engines fully run-in and happy once again)
- The heads, block, basically everything are ready to bolt back on right now and i really want to start the rebuild! lol
- I don't want to start messing with the bottom end.....Far too in-depth, time consuming and money i haven't got.
So there's my reasons! Tbh, with the cams re-profiled, re-mapped (to run with my decat pipes) and my xe flywheel, she isn't going to be slow ;)
Anyway, back to the rebuild! I cleaned up all the piston crowns and had to get the rust off the drivers bank cylinder walls (thats the side the gasket went on) yesterday. Here's a before and after pic of one of the worst pistons! I actually continued to clean it up more than this and got rid of the carbon in the gaps, but you get the idea;
Dirty Piston
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/tezray/Dirtypiston.jpg)
Clean piston :)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/tezray/Cleanpiston.jpg)
I also removed the oil cooler and found this :-/
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/tezray/Oilcoolergap.jpg)
It looks like rust?? The gasket on the cooler really had seen it's day and i could see where coolant had been escaping, same for the thermostat gasket. Do i just use the grey sealer on the new cooler and thermo?
Also, the cooler i removed had veins in it (like a radiator), but the new one i've got doesn't....It seems more of a 'solid' construction if you know what i mean, is this just an updated and improved cooler?
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I would be very sceptical about modifications' extra power claims in general. What I learnt when I used to play around with such things, is that between the 'xx bhp extra power' from the free-flow exhaust, and the various claims made about camshafts, air filters, polished heads etc, I should have doubled my engines bhp but this was far from it...
More specifically, I have some experience with cams (though not on the V6), and it goes like this:
1. Some cars have very good cams to begin with, so it is difficult to gain any substaintial improvement with 'fast road' aftermarket cams!
2. Cams don't make power out of nothing, there is usually a trade-off between low-end power/torque and high-end power - with a manual car used for racing you want the 'rally/racing' profile cam which goes into 7-8k and gives extra power, you don't care about low-rpm (sub-5k) at all. There is a distinct point with rally/racing cams when the engine 'comes-on' the cam, which can be at around 3.5-4.5k rpm, a bit like the turbo boost on a blown engine...
3. Cams which make a significant high-end gain, will also suffer from very erratic idle. On one rally/racing cam I used, it was impossible to get the engine idling without stalling unless the idle was set to 1,500 rpm. This was an extreme example though, in most cases you would just get very bad idle - feels like not all the cylinders are firing - but the engine will still run.
4. The holly grail of cams is the one that does not affect idling, and improves both torque as well as power through-out the rev-range, and allows the engine to go upward of the 7k before power peaks. However, as said before, you can only achieve this if the original OE design is not particularly briliant. If the engine has good cams to begin with, the only way to get some gain is by trading-off idling and/or low-end power/torque.
Now I don't know specifically that the V6 cams are of poor general design, but as said if they are good then it will be difficult to get an overall improvements.
Also, when using high-lift cams, you should also consider using upgraded heavy-duty lifters and followers - but in the very list renew all hydraulic lifters as a matter of course as the high lift cams are very demanding on the lifters, any 'tired' lifters can cause the valves to 'float' and burn.
And last, my experience was with Kent Cams (though collegues used Piper Cams at the time), and it was 15 years ago....
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Wow, some very indepth and usefull information! And as i have never changed the cam(s) on any of my engines this is all quite new to me!
I just spoke to the guy at piper and he said they'd be re-profiled to have 248 duration on the inlet and exhaust and 9.54mm lift. He also would recommend that if my engine has done over 50K (*cough* 158K *cough* ;D) that a new set of lifters and followers should be used, priced at £342 for the set :o The power band would be from approx. 1800-6000 rpm
So, now the question is, how the hell would i afford the new lifters and followers?! I'm starting to think about just rebuilding the bugger tbh....
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Hence why I said heads.....porting is generaly of more use and can help the economy (reduces pumping losses)
You need the grey sealent on the oil cooler plate (the stuff that comes in a small mastic type tube) and pop some around the stat to block joint to.....
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Ok, i see your point better now! I suppose if, in the future, i wanted the cams done it's no big deal to whip them out and get them done.
I hadn't thought about the lifters and followers until Markjay said, shame really :(
I'll still have to wait 2 weeks for Grant to get back if i want the heads done though....And then add on the time to do them and the rebuild time. I want my Omega back :'(
I've called Autovaux and they're getting back to me on a price for a full set of lifters and followers....
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Last time I tuned an engine I took it from 69bhp to 65bhp to 115bhp.
The drop was caused by a rebore using L/C pistons (they supplied wrong ones!!!!).
Twin carbs and Kent cam helped to get it to around 90, VERY heavy head skim (60 thou) to around 100, Hepolite pistons and K&N filters to 115 (silly CR)
Only mild porting!
Easier/cheaper to tune the high torque than locate a sports version.
If I had the money I could have gone bigger on the valves, could have gone DCOEs could have gone wilder on the cam, I have seen a 160bhp version of the same lump!
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What, like these:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vauxhall-Valve-Lifter-New_W0QQitemZ300001755517QQihZ020QQcategoryZ10404QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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Why would anyone want 1 lifter? :-? And that 1 looks very slightly different to mine...
Martin, sounds like you've done some impressive tuning yourself! When i had my gsi Nova i bought twin 40's, round port inlet manifold for the 40's, a kent ast2 cam, adjustable fuel pressure regulator, ported and flowef 1.6 head and a couple of other bits.....It's just i never got round to fitting them all! ;D But when i sold all the bits off again i made a decent profit so it wasn't all bad.
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Thats the old style and they have 20 avalable, and thats a cheap price as they are over £10 each to me COST.
the later style fitted to 99 model year V6's has a slimmer piston but you have to fit new style T vents to fit those.
What, like these:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vauxhall-Valve-Lifter-New_W0QQitemZ300001755517QQihZ020QQcategoryZ10404QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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...If I had the money I could have gone bigger on the valves, could have gone DCOEs could have gone wilder on the cam, I have seen a 160bhp version of the same lump!
The intake noise of three 40 or 45 Webers shod with K&N is intoxicating, but I doubt if it will pass the MOT emission test... ;D
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What, like these:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vauxhall-Valve-Lifter-New_W0QQitemZ300001755517QQihZ020QQcategoryZ10404QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I got mine from here, £8 each:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vauxhall-Tappets-Corsa-Astra-Vectra-Omega-Frontera_W0QQitemZ4610101316QQihZ002QQcategoryZ10404QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
As v6man says you need to change the 'T' vents if you go from old style to new style and Autovaux have been trying to get me 4 since the beginning of July. I don't think many people realise that you have to change the vents for the new style lifters...
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Why would anyone want 1 lifter? :-? And that 1 looks very slightly different to mine...
Martin, sounds like you've done some impressive tuning yourself! When i had my gsi Nova i bought twin 40's, round port inlet manifold for the 40's, a kent ast2 cam, adjustable fuel pressure regulator, ported and flowef 1.6 head and a couple of other bits.....It's just i never got round to fitting them all! ;D But when i sold all the bits off again i made a decent profit so it wasn't all bad.
Started as a £100 banger when I was desperate, got offered a 1.6 Avenger lump so swapped out the imp engine, upgraded the suspension. Then I started tuning very little was original in the end - scrap yards were so usefull. I bought Weller 8 spoke wheels for it.
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...If I had the money I could have gone bigger on the valves, could have gone DCOEs could have gone wilder on the cam, I have seen a 160bhp version of the same lump!
The intake noise of three 40 or 45 Webers shod with K&N is intoxicating, but I doubt if it will pass the MOT emission test... ;D
This was on my Sunbeam - that had 2x 1.5" Strombergs
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Tbh guys, i'm considering just rebuilding her as she is. I'm not sure i want all this hassle with (what should be) my day-to-day car. Everything is ready and waiting sat in my garage, it's not as though she's slow as she is and a chip, remap and xe flywheel she see her shifting pretty well....
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Well, i'm afraid i went for the rebuild! I have my reasons....Sorry if anyone was looking forward to seeing the results of the mentioned mods. Anyway, got loads done today! The heads are back on, rear connections sorted, wiring tidyed up, rear cambelt cover on, spark plugs in, PAS pump back on and oil dipstick fitted. I also got my new oil cooler and thermostat fitted. So tomorrow will consist of torquing the heads (new a torque angle guage), fitting the water pump+pulley, crank pulley and re-fitting the cams. Then it's time to get it timed up! I can't believe how much ground i've covered today, its gone so much quicker than the strip down! Pics (sorry about the poor quality);
New drivers head gasket;
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/tezray/Driversheadgasketnew.jpg)
Drivers head re-fitted;
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/tezray/Driversheadfitted.jpg)
Heads re-fitted with gaskets;
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/tezray/Headsre-fitted.jpg)
The biggest pain in the ar5e today was fitting the engine lift bracket, oil dipstick and steal coolant pipe, what a bastard!!
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Well done, you'll soon be an RMB [smiley=beer.gif]
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You shoud have fitted the inlet coolant pipe before you put the passenger side head on - remember how hard it was to get off!!!!!
That outlet pipe is a pain - thats why you often see Omega's without the lifting BKT fitted - I find it easier using a 10mm ratchet ring spanner on the E12 bolt there should be a spacer ring aswell - this was used as the bolt was too long for the hole.
Well, i'm afraid i went for the rebuild! I have my reasons....Sorry if anyone was looking forward to seeing the results of the mentioned mods. Anyway, got loads done today! The heads are back on, rear connections sorted, wiring tidyed up, rear cambelt cover on, spark plugs in, PAS pump back on and oil dipstick fitted. I also got my new oil cooler and thermostat fitted. So tomorrow will consist of torquing the heads (new a torque angle guage), fitting the water pump+pulley, crank pulley and re-fitting the cams. Then it's time to get it timed up! I can't believe how much ground i've covered today, its gone so much quicker than the strip down! Pics (sorry about the poor quality);
New drivers head gasket;
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/tezray/Driversheadgasketnew.jpg)
Drivers head re-fitted;
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/tezray/Driversheadfitted.jpg)
Heads re-fitted with gaskets;
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/tezray/Headsre-fitted.jpg)
The biggest pain in the ar5e today was fitting the engine lift bracket, oil dipstick and steal coolant pipe, what a bastard!!
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Well done Tezray your on a roll now just hope it sounds like new when turning the key for the first time after the rebuild, fingers crossed for you mate :)
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Re-builds are always more pleasent as you are generaly working with nice clean bits....
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You shoud have fitted the inlet coolant pipe before you put the passenger side head on - remember how hard it was to get off!!!!!
That's exactly what i thought, just after i had fitted the head! ::) ;D
That outlet pipe is a pain - thats why you often see Omega's without the lifting BKT fitted - I find it easier using a 10mm ratchet ring spanner on the E12 bolt there should be a spacer ring aswell - this was used as the bolt was too long for the hole.
I used a 10mm rachet as well, mainly because i have one in a 1/4" drive and gave me more room to work with....Mine didn't have a spacer ring when i took it off! I thought that bolt was a bit bloody long!!
I have my first rebuild question! There are 3 connectors behind the passeneger head, 1 is the dispac, 1 in the crank sensor, what's the other one?? Because i cant find anywhere to connect it to?! Unlesss it's fallen down the back somewhere and i cant see it.....
Hopefully i'll be cracking on with it today, although it's bloody raining >:( But i'm hoping to get the rest of my pulleys on, heads torqued and cams in. Cheers for your support guys :) It's great how doing something like this makes you learn loads about your engine and actually makes it seem no-way near as complicated as you first thought...
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Hey mate,
Just read all about your progress, those valves look stunning!! hope my valve spring compressor has proved useful. When your done, you'll have to let me have a drive, lol!!
It does take a while, but trust me, it's well worth it in the end for the sense of acheivement and satisfaction.
James
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Am I right to think It may smoke for a little while whilst oil deposits are being burnt off from the exhaust or something like that.
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Third connector......fairly big one? then injectors.
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or if two pin....rear multiram solenoid....(hence why you have no where to plug it because I guess the plenum is still off!)
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Hi Terry
Just read your little story.
Looks like you're a lot closer to finishing this than I thought you'd be when I saw the car a few days ago.
Give me a shout when you come to start it. Id love to hear it for the first time.
Also I'll probably continue on mine Sat, Sun and Mon so if you fancy coming up and taking a look at it, give me a shout.
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James, nice to see you on here for once! lol Yes you're welcome to a drive when she's done, i'm hoping to get everything back together tomorrow and give stuart a call to come and time her up :) Then it'll just be a couple of hours to get her back up and (hopefully!) running! It has been a lot of work, but it should all be worth it in the end and i have learnt a lot in the process.
Pete and Mark, i think that's it! I'm pretty sure its the injector plug (big chucky one and the rear multiram is already plugged in), so that'll just go back on when i get the injectors in place.
Mark (sideways), if i wasn't working friday and saturday i'd probably have her running by then, but as it is it will hopefully be sunday...So you want to hear her splutter into life?? I'll let you know when she's ready and yes i could come and have a look at yours, should be interesting!
Nixoro, i imagine it will smoke a bit while the new stem seals bed in and it'll probably cough any remenence of the headgasket out of the exhaust!
I have another question.....The coolant pipe that leaves the passenger head (about 20mm diameter), what/where does it connect?? It should all make sense when i start getting it all back together, but atm i cant think where it's suppose to go!!
*EDIT* I have a another question (well comfirmation rather than question). I removed the drivers side cat the other day to gain a bit more access when re-fitting the heads and found it was full of water from when the HG went :( I presume it's going to be completely mullered now?? It's had water in it for the past month?!! ;D Not funny really, but if it's dead it's dead. I could always fit my decat pipes and map it to run with them i suppose.....
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I cant think of any coolant pipe that leaves either head.....your not thinking of the air injection pipe from the exhaust manifold are you?
Cat will probably be ok, they are ceramic with a rare metal coating so dont corrode.....the casing might a little but it will only be surface rust.
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So the cat will live? I am surprised...I thought even if you parked your car in a damp bit of land for a few weeks it'd harm/kill them?
There's a pipe coming from each head, both with 2 tubes that bolt into the top of the manifold...Are they air injection pipes? I couldn't remember because it was a while ago when i took them off! Has anyone got a picture of the general 'bad pipe' area? It might be usefull for me to organise where everything's going....
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Yes they are the sec air pipes - they go to the other one that goes across the timing cover - the out let pipe connects to the radiator, cats go if you go over a deep puddle when they are at working temp around 750 degs C - but I have had head gaskets go on a rig filled the exhaust with coolant - didn't do any harm - then again didn't leave it there for a month lol.
So the cat will live? I am surprised...I thought even if you parked your car in a damp bit of land for a few weeks it'd harm/kill them?
There's a pipe coming from each head, both with 2 tubes that bolt into the top of the manifold...Are they air injection pipes? I couldn't remember because it was a while ago when i took them off! Has anyone got a picture of the general 'bad pipe' area? It might be usefull for me to organise where everything's going....
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Cheers V6man, i'm sure it'll all come together in the end! As for the cat, i'm sure MOT time will tell me if i killed it! lol
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Well she's getting there! Torqued each head 2 lots of 90 degree's, waiting until sunday to do the final 90 degree's and then i'm not sure weather to do the 15 degree's tolerance? As i'm slightly worried about cracking the block....Is it really necessary? Once she's torqued, i'll re-fit the cams and then the guys coming round to time her, then it'll just be 2-3 hours to finish the build, re-fit the drivers side cat and refil my fluids :)
Currently looks like this;
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/tezray/Nearingrebuilt.jpg)
It's amazing how much more room you've got to play with when the heads aren't in there!! lol
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Well she's getting there! Torqued each head 2 lots of 90 degree's, waiting until sunday to do the final 90 degree's and then i'm not sure weather to do the 15 degree's tolerance? As i'm slightly worried about cracking the block....Is it really necessary? Once she's torqued, i'll re-fit the cams and then the guys coming round to time her, then it'll just be 2-3 hours to finish the build, re-fit the drivers side cat and refil my fluids :)
Currently looks like this;
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/tezray/Nearingrebuilt.jpg)
It's amazing how much more room you've got to play with when the heads aren't in there!! lol
You have been doing very good job mate, the fact that you will do the final torqueing on Sunday is very good as it will help to keep a constant clamping force on the head without much relaxation. You will soon be rewarded for all the hard work.
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Good effort mate looks very nice and shiny, as mentioned in the other thread I wouldnt even contemplate anything V6 related so I am pleased its all going/gone you way and hope you get rewarded with a good result :)
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Cheers guys, she should have been running today but i had 2 small problems and now it wont be until Tuesday :( Quite dissapointed tbh....
It was all going well, Stuart came out and timed it up (very good bloke [smiley=thumbup.gif]) but 2 things have stopped me;
-For some reason completely unknown to me i cant get the crank pulley back on, i can get 4 bolts in and the other 2 will not go, i felt like throwing the rather thing through my windscreen by the end of the day!
-I can't find the vacuum connection for the fuel pressure regulator! Any clues/tips/idea's where it might be?? I really cant find it anywhere....The vacuum to connect to this;
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/tezray/Finalbuild4.jpg)
Other than these things it's all gone very well and i'm quite confident now that it will run really nicely. Fitting a cambelt kit and timing it is so so easy!!! I'm definately doing it myself next time. To be fair though he did only charge me £40 to come out to me (10 mile trip through bristol), fit the kit and time it. Here's a few pics of my progress today;
Heads torqued, cams fitted and torqued;
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/tezray/Finalbuild2.jpg)
Sprockets on, ready for the kit to be fitted!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/tezray/Finalbuild1.jpg)
And how it's currently looking;
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/tezray/Finalbuild3.jpg)
It's so annoying, if i had found the vacuum pipe and got the crank pulley on she'd be running now.....I did get a lot done today though. So does anyone have any ideas about the vacuum pipe for the FPR?
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Hello,
Stuart really is good, he has offered to come over, lend me his locking kit and watch over me next time I do a V6 belt change. £40 is an excellent price, seeing as he had to come across Bristol, and back again.
Your more than welcome to pop over mine tomorrow to have a look at my vacuum pipe setup, the one your on about I think connects to the Idle air control valve pipe, it's not part of the normal vacuum circuit. It's the small one that goes to the pipe that goes from the IACV to the trumpet going into the plenum.
JCT
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the vaccum pipe is the long thin pipe i believe that goes under the cable tray to the ront of the engine then joins to a much larger pipe that goes between the idle speed valve and one of the air intakes from the multi ram.
the crank pulley holes are slightly offset so they bolts will only go in if the pully is in the correct position.
i made the mistake of setting the engine totdc then putting the mark on the pulley at the bottom but it doesnt go like that, the mark sits at about 2 oclock to line up with the line on the engine, hope this helps, john.
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Guys, you have saved my life! I think because i had been out there all day, i was tired (got 3 hours sleep last night after getting wrecked in town lol), back aching etc I tend to lose rational thought, i hadn't even considered the ICV!!
As for the crank pulley, i will persist lol Again, i think tiredness really doesn't help.
Cheers for the offer James, but i'm working all day :( Hence she should be running on Tuesday.....But i'll definately bring her over and let you take her for a spin if you like :) I really can't wait now!!
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All up and together and running beautifully now :)
As she looks now;
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/tezray/Fullyrebuilt.jpg)
Thanks a million to everyone that's helped me through this! You're all absolutley priceless and a wealth of information!! ;) Hopefully i can be more helpfull to people on here now, i've learnt looaaaads doing this, well worth it! 8-)
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You deserve a rest and a beer :)
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Well done Tezray. Great job. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
I think you should be upgraded to an Omega Expert right away. ;)
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Quality Job! Looks great!
[smiley=thumbsup.gif] [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
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Rest, definately! Beer, i don't need an excuse! ;D
Omega expert hey, not a bad idea.....You hear that mods?!?! lol It does make changing the rocker cover gaskets seem like a 20 minute job that i could do blind folded now!
Time to get back to REAL motoring now, no more of that Korean junk [smiley=vrolijk_26.gif]
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Nice one Terry.
Give me a buzz and I'll pop over and check out your handy work.
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C'mon Tez, we're dying to hear how the first proper run went... ;)
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It hasn't :'(
I ran her up to running temp. this morning and all seemed great, but then my coolant started flooding out of my header tank :( It's an old prob that i had before the HG went, but there's a new thermostat in there and a new radiator!! I don't understand why it's doing it?!?
Could it be that i have air in the system? Because i heard bubbling from the pipes when the coolant flooded out? Or could it be a dodgy header tank cap? Whatever it is i'm not happy about it >:(
Oh, i did take her up the road and my brakes also seem shocking, not a good day so far....
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Run the car with header cap off to stop pressurising - should help until its been thoroughly flushed...
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Well i just filled it up and did my usual 'tricks' for getting air out of the system, fitted a new header tank cap and fingers crossed she's been absolutely fine! :) I ran her up to the fan cutting in twice and took her for 3 short drives and all appears ok! No changing in the coolant level and no bubbling noises from the pipes :D
I just hope all stays hunky dory! I am getting some noises from the brakes and when cornering, but hopefully they'll dissapear once i've driven her a bit. My brakes also seem quite bad and i'm not sure why :-? But as for driving her, she drives beautifully! Flawlessly!! And even taking it steady with her and only going half way on the throttle, she certainly does have some power!
It's still burning quite a bit, but it isn't an oil burning smell and it's coming from both sides of the engine. I'm wondering if it's the heat proof paint i painted the manifolds with?
Fingers bl00dy crossed hey!! :)
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Congratulations on all your hard work, may you have many miles of trouble free fun :)
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I'm sure she'll be perfect :)
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Nixoro and Timbuk, i hope you're right! ;D
It's so good to have her back....You don't realise how much you love them until they're gone!!
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My project car had failed oil cooler and has ruined the expansion cap, so I guess they don't like oil :)
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Nice one Tezray, I have been following your progress and im glad its all come together ok [smiley=thumbsup.gif]