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[Dishevelled Den]

But you see we may not be perfect, but I for me do the following to offset my V6 ownership.

I drive far less than ever before.  I recycle everything I can.  I use energy efficient light bulbs throughout my home, with all appliances fully turned off at night. The central heating thermostat is turned down to operate at a temperature as low as my health may take.  All radiators have thermostats.  My windows are double glazed.  I buy food in the least packaging possible, and cook on mass the meals I eat from fresh ingredients, and rarely have 'ready meals'.  I rarely take holidays abroad now using aircraft. 

Oh, and I tend to buy old cars and keep them for some years, and not new ones expensively produced using huge amounts of energy!

That's me then, how about you?

Yes Lizzie I think that's a very practical way many people can help if they think help is needed.

Like you I have the double glazing, cavity wall insulation, loft insulation, thermostat set at 18 degrees (except in the worst of the recent weather, heating operating 2hrs in the morning and 2hrs in the evening.

I take showers rather than baths, I've set aside some ground for home grown produce, I rarely buy processed foods, I try to mend rather than replace.

I drive only when necessary and then it's invariably the Prius (not for any overt green reason - it gets 55mpg which is slightly better than that of the Desmond )

I haven't taken a holiday since 1992 and I switch off most things at bedtime.

I try to be as responsible as I can - and I don't mind being so - but what would annoy me is if some NGO, committee or other group decided on the back of their own assertions, based on the current AGW wisdom, that I would have to make even more sacrifices in my lifestyle and tried to reinforce the point by energy rationing by way of pricing or denial of full service then I would by very annoyed indeed.

I forgot to add that I only flush every time for solids - I wait for four or five evacuations from the front-bottom before flushing for 'liquids'.

[aaronjb]

Good lord Z, how do you stay warm!?

I have the heating set to 21 or 21.5 in here and it has to be on for a good three hours to get the house back up to that temperature .. and it still often feels freezing rather cold!

My flat was never this hard to keep warm  :-/

[cem_devecioglu]

Science : "any system of knowledge that is concerned with the physical world and its phenomena and that entails unbiased observations and systematic experimentation" (Encyclopaedia Britannica.)

So, not science, then. We're talking about politics, pure and simple. Science is about developing our understanding of that which we have observed to be true, not trying for various reasons to promote a theory that hasn't been backed up by proper observations.

Kevin

ok.. sometimes, I use a simple technique to distinguish the truth when two different ideas/acceptance oppose.. I simply look in the fact behind the scenes ..

how do scientists live and how do they get their living money..

from university salaries, govt funds, industry funds and some special projects which again have the same source.. 

probably most of you know how Galileo was threatened..


now lets think of the facts..

assume global warming is true.. in that case, govts, industries have to spend enormous amounts for precautions and stopping the predicted consequences..  its clear that those power groups will try to delay or stop those findings.. or try to cancel..

on the other hand some groups may earn if the have investments in related fields..but how many ? and what power they have on science groups.. ?

similiar things happened in the past and will happen again.. no doubt..

[Dishevelled Den]

Good lord Z, how do you stay warm!?

I have the heating set to 21 or 21.5 in here and it has to be on for a good three hours to get the house back up to that temperature .. and it still often feels freezing rather cold!

My flat was never this hard to keep warm  :-/

It can get cold A but a heavy cardigan seems to stave off the worst effects of it.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

But you see we may not be perfect, but I for me do the following to offset my V6 ownership.

I drive far less than ever before.  I recycle everything I can.  I use energy efficient light bulbs throughout my home, with all appliances fully turned off at night. The central heating thermostat is turned down to operate at a temperature as low as my health may take.  All radiators have thermostats.  My windows are double glazed.  I buy food in the least packaging possible, and cook on mass the meals I eat from fresh ingredients, and rarely have 'ready meals'.  I rarely take holidays abroad now using aircraft. 

Oh, and I tend to buy old cars and keep them for some years, and not new ones expensively produced using huge amounts of energy!

That's me then, how about you?

Yes Lizzie I think that's a very practical way many people can help if they think help is needed.

Like you I have the double glazing, cavity wall insulation, loft insulation, thermostat set at 18 degrees (except in the worst of the recent weather, heating operating 2hrs in the morning and 2hrs in the evening.

I take showers rather than baths, I've set aside some ground for home grown produce, I rarely buy processed foods, I try to mend rather than replace.

I drive only when necessary and then it's invariably the Prius (not for any overt green reason - it gets 55mpg which is slightly better than that of the Desmond )

I haven't taken a holiday since 1992 and I switch off most things at bedtime.

I try to be as responsible as I can - and I don't mind being so - but what would annoy me is if some NGO, committee or other group decided on the back of their own assertions, based on the current AGW wisdom, that I would have to make even more sacrifices in my lifestyle and tried to reinforce the point by energy rationing by way of pricing or denial of full service then I would by very annoyed indeed.

I completely agree ZL, and this would indeed go against the principals of "Freedom" in a Liberal society, although I adhere to the John Locke qualifying belief that your freedom should harm no one else.

I fear though our "Freedom" to choose is very much under attack, with choices on how houses and cars are built, along with a constant stream of 'instruction' on how to live our lives.  Terrorism has already taken away so much of our individual freedom, and I believe the environmental argument will take this a lot further.

However I believe that industry, which has produced much of the damaging effects on our environment, should be tightly controlled, and in that way our personal freedom can be maintained at acceptable levels.  The trouble is eventually the climatic change, for whatever reasons caused (!!), could become critical and may mean the full intervention of the state to implement whatever is required for man's survival.  Who knows how far off this could be, but I suspect it is something our grandchildren may have to face head on!  Until then changes will continue to take place that we hardly notice as individuals, like changes in building design, where our power comes from, and what happens with out rubbish.  Other changes will be noticed, like the current trend in energy efficient car design being promoted heavily and alternative energy generating devices being introduced with a big fanfare!

[Varche]

But you see we may not be perfect, but I for me do the following to offset my V6 ownership.

I drive far less than ever before.  I recycle everything I can.  I use energy efficient light bulbs throughout my home, with all appliances fully turned off at night. The central heating thermostat is turned down to operate at a temperature as low as my health may take.  All radiators have thermostats.  My windows are double glazed.  I buy food in the least packaging possible, and cook on mass the meals I eat from fresh ingredients, and rarely have 'ready meals'.  I rarely take holidays abroad now using aircraft. 

Oh, and I tend to buy old cars and keep them for some years, and not new ones expensively produced using huge amounts of energy!

That's me then, how about you?

Yes Lizzie I think that's a very practical way many people can help if they think help is needed.

Like you I have the double glazing, cavity wall insulation, loft insulation, thermostat set at 18 degrees (except in the worst of the recent weather, heating operating 2hrs in the morning and 2hrs in the evening.

I take showers rather than baths, I've set aside some ground for home grown produce, I rarely buy processed foods, I try to mend rather than replace.

I drive only when necessary and then it's invariably the Prius (not for any overt green reason - it gets 55mpg which is slightly better than that of the Desmond )

I haven't taken a holiday since 1992 and I switch off most things at bedtime.

I try to be as responsible as I can - and I don't mind being so - but what would annoy me is if some NGO, committee or other group decided on the back of their own assertions, based on the current AGW wisdom, that I would have to make even more sacrifices in my lifestyle and tried to reinforce the point by energy rationing by way of pricing or denial of full service then I would by very annoyed indeed.

I forgot to add that I only flush every time for solids - I wait for four or five evacuations from the front-bottom before flushing for 'liquids'.

[/highlight]

You have the makings of being the perfect house guest. Just one question....do you switch everything off to stop the electricity leaking away?  I have several relatives that do that on table lamps, kettle and so on. I can see the point when they have LEDs or a transformer within using phantom juice.

[Dishevelled Den]

You have the makings of being the perfect house guest. Just one question....do you switch everything off to stop the electricity leaking away?  I have several relatives that do that on table lamps, kettle and so on. I can see the point when they have LEDs or a transformer within using phantom juice.

Oh yes V, I make a very nice house guest - I can be very 'accommodating' if you know what I mean.

[Mysteryman]

But you see we may not be perfect, but I for me do the following to offset my V6 ownership.

I drive far less than ever before.  I recycle everything I can.  I use energy efficient light bulbs throughout my home, with all appliances fully turned off at night. The central heating thermostat is turned down to operate at a temperature as low as my health may take.  All radiators have thermostats.  My windows are double glazed.  I buy food in the least packaging possible, and cook on mass the meals I eat from fresh ingredients, and rarely have 'ready meals'.  I rarely take holidays abroad now using aircraft. 

Oh, and I tend to buy old cars and keep them for some years, and not new ones expensively produced using huge amounts of energy!

That's me then, how about you?

Yes Lizzie I think that's a very practical way many people can help if they think help is needed.

Like you I have the double glazing, cavity wall insulation, loft insulation, thermostat set at 18 degrees (except in the worst of the recent weather, heating operating 2hrs in the morning and 2hrs in the evening.

I take showers rather than baths, I've set aside some ground for home grown produce, I rarely buy processed foods, I try to mend rather than replace.

I drive only when necessary and then it's invariably the Prius (not for any overt green reason - it gets 55mpg which is slightly better than that of the Desmond )

I haven't taken a holiday since 1992 and I switch off most things at bedtime.

I try to be as responsible as I can - and I don't mind being so - but what would annoy me is if some NGO, committee or other group decided on the back of their own assertions, based on the current AGW wisdom, that I would have to make even more sacrifices in my lifestyle and tried to reinforce the point by energy rationing by way of pricing or denial of full service then I would by very annoyed indeed.

I forgot to add that I only flush every time for solids - I wait for four or five evacuations from the front-bottom before flushing for 'liquids'.

Thank you for sharing that, Den :-?

I doubt we'll ever be short of water up north

[Nickbat]

I forgot to add that I only flush every time for solids - I wait for four or five evacuations from the front-bottom before flushing for 'liquids'.

I would imagine, then, that diarrhea would be more of moral, than a physical, dilemma. 

[albitz]

The thin end of the wedge regarding reducing freedom in the name of climate change has already been hammered into place.
Perhaps the most obvious example is the fact that we have almost no choice but to use those hateful low energy bulbs, which produce next to break all light. Traditional light bulbs are being phased out and will be illegal to sell in the next year or two. Im sure there are plenty more (serious) restrictions in the pipeline.

[Banjax]

I forgot to add that I only flush every time for solids - I wait for four or five evacuations from the front-bottom before flushing for 'liquids'.

I would imagine, then, that diarrhea would be more of moral, than a physical, dilemma. 

very good


the Aussie phrase: "if its yellow its mellow, if its brown flush it down" would alleviate any confusion NB
 

[Nickbat]

The thin end of the wedge regarding reducing freedom in the name of climate change has already been hammered into place.
Perhaps the most obvious example is the fact that we have almost no choice but to use those hateful low energy bulbs, which produce next to break all light. Traditional light bulbs are being phased out and will be illegal to sell in the next year or two. Im sure there are plenty more (serious) restrictions in the pipeline.

I truly hate these new bulbs. And to think you have to evacuate the room if one breaks.

Yep, Albs, thin end of the wedge. 

[Dishevelled Den]

I forgot to add that I only flush every time for solids - I wait for four or five evacuations from the front-bottom before flushing for 'liquids'.

I would imagine, then, that diarrhea would be more of moral, than a physical, dilemma. 

Quite correct Nick - the onset and discharge of the hybrid stool always conspires to cause me great moral difficulty.

[Nickbat]

I forgot to add that I only flush every time for solids - I wait for four or five evacuations from the front-bottom before flushing for 'liquids'.

I would imagine, then, that diarrhea would be more of moral, than a physical, dilemma. 

Quite correct Nick - the onset and discharge of the hybrid stool always conspires to cause me great moral difficulty.

  8-)

[Dishevelled Den]

The thin end of the wedge regarding reducing freedom in the name of climate change has already been hammered into place.
Perhaps the most obvious example is the fact that we have almost no choice but to use those hateful low energy bulbs, which produce next to break all light. Traditional light bulbs are being phased out and will be illegal to sell in the next year or two. Im sure there are plenty more (serious) restrictions in the pipeline.

It is indeed a case in point A - I would look out for energy rationing/use shaping by way of smart meter being one of the next big things to be enforced by way of legislation.