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[Vamps]

Like you said B it got all serious and PC.
I think the hostile tones that you see in the name of discussion need to stop, to go back to the mess analogy arguments happen but at the end of the evening both sides share a drink and at worst agree to disagree.
Arguments in general chat seem to be more like trench warfare these days. I sometimes wonder if there are members who use the forum just to see how many people they can wind up in a night.
Pc is a totally different can of worms, to my mind it kills humour when people are scared to have a bit of fun for fear sombody's feelings will get hurt. Don't get me wrong I'm not advocating racism but we all need to learn to laugh at ourselves again.
So I don't really know, maybe reminding members that they've left primary school and are in the big grown up world now where people might say things they don't agree with but that doesn't mean they have a right to beat them up verbally or otherwise would help.
Finally to respond to the cliquey comments that invariably surface in a thread like this, yes there is a clique but all you need to do is join in.
We don't bite (well DLK does but only if you pay him first) try and attend a meet, it's a lot easier to chat to someone you've met in person and who knows you might make some friends in the bargain, I know I have.

You are on form tonight John well said, and as for the clique, I have said the same myself, you want to join in then join in.......

[paul.lovejoy]

i think admin are on good form tonight too  not that they do not have my full support anyway

[Darth Loo-knee]

i think admin are on good form tonight too  not that they do not have my full support anyway

Arse kisser.

I do agree, lets hope this idea of Jaime's irons out the problems he hoped it would. I do for one

[paul.lovejoy]

i think admin are on good form tonight too  not that they do not have my full support anyway

Arse kisser.

I do agree, lets hope this idea of Jaime's irons out the problems he hoped it would. I do for one

http://youtu.be/dSJ8R9BVkMw

[Vamps]

i think admin are on good form tonight too  not that they do not have my full support anyway

Arse kisser.

I do agree, lets hope this idea of Jaime's irons out the problems he hoped it would. I do for one

http://youtu.be/dSJ8R9BVkMw

  Love it.............

[waspy]

You wana know what's partially wrong with OOF???
Dragging up old squables doesn't help at all. Put it behind you & bury the hatchet.
I for one was sick of it the first time around & for a second time it's just NOT NEEDED.

Maybe Pete your right    On the other hand though if it had happened to you, you may have felt differently.

I would feel differently. Though I'm one of those people that let things be if there's no way of changing the out come.
What's done is done. Forget it & move on

[TheBoy]

The whole Daz/LJ thing to my mind was little more than banter. Daz posted a y@wn response which LJ had done quite a few times previously. Instead of being taken as a bit of ribbing it got blown out of proportion.
Jimbob to my mind acted out of haste. If there was any case to answer surely it should have been discussed by the admins then any punishment deemed necessary applied by Lord TuBy as chief admin.

I agree wholeheartedly, except for the last 6 words I've crossed out.

As I have said, I think it was a rash decision^* made possibly with other pressures. IMHO it was a wrong decision. But, hell, we all make mistakes, nobody is perfect.

So the immediate Admin decision was to ban Jimbob whilst we discussed amongst ourselves what steps to take. By the time I was aware of the whole incident, Darth Loo-knee's ban was due to expire in a short while, so we let that take its natural route.

I was forwarded all the PMs by DLK and LJ in this incident, which I shared with my fellow Administrators.

Unfortunately, without access to a private chat area (we only have a Moderator area, and inappropriate to discuss there) we resorted to trying to discuss this via PM, which wasn't ideal, and is long winded. We are all online at different times of day, so a new query/idea raised would take at least 24hrs to get a full reply to, and being via PMs, any structure in the conversation was lost. In hindsight, we should have come up with a better way of discussing it.

This means that it took about a week to have a fairly simple discussion and vote, and certainly I felt pressured to resolve it ASAP from the PMs from people not involved about when it was going to be resolved.  However, to me, it was important we had a unilateral agreement amongst the Administrators, which wasn't the case on the first vote.

With my (unusually) rose tinted specs, I'd say I probably championed Jimbob's return. I'll be honest, and say I honestly thought Jimbob would see, what was IMHO, the error of this ways, and offer an apology for a misjudgement. I realised that was unlikely to happen when, after and Administrator only vote to give Loo-knee his Mod status back (unilaterally agreed on first vote), I had a PM from JB about it. It was clear we both saw things differently. This actually reminded me of the Admin Team meeting we had at one of the meets to discuss bringing a new Mod on board, and JB being against DLK, and within minutes of that meeting ending, LJ coming over and telling me what a bad idea that was (assumed JB had told her straight away).  In hindsight, we should have taken into consideration the (now) obvious personality clash between JB/LJ v DLK 

So, we were at a point where viewpoints were not going to change, and all parties thought they were in the right. Nothing actually wrong with some (one?) of the Admin Team seeing something from a different angle, we can't all agree on everything, and sometimes we have to agree to disagree. Although I found some of the attitudes made me angry, and I really had more pressing problems to deal with outside of OOF, partly as a result of the accident I had in Feb. I probably hoped the disagreement would go away, clearly it hasn't, and there are a fair few long standing members who are still very angry over the entire incident.


Knowing what I think I know now, JB and/or LJ (I struggle to tell their views apart sometimes - they often are as one) were looking for opportunities to be rid of DLK.  That said, DLK must have known he would get a reaction, although it wasn't exactly bullying as claimed IMHO.  Its a shame, as I know DLK and LK used to be, I believe, very good friends, having shared similar close family loses at similar times.


Personally, this one incident aside, I've never had any disagreements with JB.  I've never had any disagreements with DLK. I've had a fair few with LJ, mainly online, where I think she comes across all wrong, and gets frustrated about not being able to get her point over very well. Face to face, LJ strikes me as a lovely, fun-loving lady.  All 3 are what I used to call good friends, and as any OOF good friend of mine knows, that puts them in the firing line, not sure why<sup>** 


*</sup> Again, with the benefit of hindsight, it seems obvious these members/mods were not getting along, which may not have helped matters much.

^** But I have my suspicions 



PS: There is no chief admin, all 4 Administrators are equal

I remember a few years ago it was mentioned that OOF was like a gentlemens club/officers mess. Polite conversation, quite a bit of humourous ribbing but everyone knew where to draw the line. That to me is the atmosphere we lost somewhere along the way, the line got redrawn then redrawn again till we find ourselves in the situation we are in now where the forum sometimes seems more like chucking out time down the town centre than a nice place to chat and have a laugh with friends.

That perfectly sums everything up completely.

[trainmanone]

wow quite a lot of post`s over the past 24 hrs, one question how long is a mod a mod for??? is there a election system?? if not why not , shouldent every member have a chance to vote for a mod??

so main reason that oof s at a low is the dlk/lj/jb conflict,send a task force.

the problem i see having read the thread is this"problem between dlk and lj . jb should not have got involved as mod he should have passed to other mod or admin" if he or lj had prob with what dlk had said,but remember lj has uesd exactly same words to others! i know that its the man thing protect your woman ect.
and if what jb says the mod button was pressed whay did a mod or admin not contact him sooner??

if it was my call i would reinstate lj with a warning re future conduct and have mods elected every two years

i might be wrong with my thoughts but hell there honest

pete 

[TheBoy]

so main reason that oof s at a low is the dlk/lj/jb conflict

I think its just one of many.

I think some members also have a tolerance problem here.

[Kevin Wood]

and if what jb says the mod button was pressed whay did a mod or admin not contact him sooner??

The mod button was pressed. I know I for one responded by checking that thread. I concluded that there was a harmless playground spat ensuing and no action was required.

The bottom line, IMHO, is that any moderator who finds themselves considering action against another moderator really ought to be able to talk to them privately to agree a way forwards rather than take public action that undermines the whole team, especially where they are in a situation where they might not view the situation impartially.

[05omegav6]

At risk of strengthening the clique 'issue',  could certain things be dealt with at the meets

Would it work to have an AGM at Newent for example? Just a thought given that actually meeting people face to face adds a whole new level to the cyberspace relationship that we have on here

As various people, Vamps, Cap'n Zok, myself included have said several times over... There's no substitute for sharing a beer with like minded aquaintances whilst talking blocks around a bbq

[Sam Burton]

At risk of strengthening the clique 'issue',  could certain things be dealt with at the meets

Would it work to have an AGM at Newent for example? Just a thought given that actually meeting people face to face adds a whole new level to the cyberspace relationship that we have on here

As various people, Vamps, Cap'n Zok, myself included have said several times over... There's no substitute for sharing a beer with like minded aquaintances whilst talking blocks around a bbq 

Ill raise a pint to that 

[05omegav6]

Still 669 replies and 45 pages shy of that Bus thread

[hotel21]

As Kevin says......

The mod button was pressed. I know I for one responded by checking that thread. I concluded that there was a harmless playground spat ensuing and no action was required.

And, given the mod moderating a mod thing, in my opinion, it should not have been done without some consultation, confirmation or similar.

As I have already said in the distant depths of this thread or the alert mod thread, just because something isn't seen to be done/deleted/moderated does not mean that's it's already been thought through and left alone because it needs no further action.

[trainmanone]

I see this is still causing unrest, for some reason...

As I see it, this is what happened, and how I dealt with it, and the after repercussions.

A lot of this is from (distant) memory, so please forgive recollection omissions etc.

Loo-knee responded to a thread with terribly sorry old boy, I am a little tired, It was unclear as to who this was aimed, I thought the OP (tidla) initially as it was another 'whats up with OOF' thread.  I found this highly disrespectful and not the behavior I would expect from a mod. It later transpired it was only aimed purely at Ljay.

Ljay attempted to resolve the issue privately, but was met by similar one word answers to PM's.
She also used the alert mod function, as is anyones right when they are not happy.
Several hours later, I acted on the alert, as noone else had, and issued a 24 hour ban to loo-knee with the ban message explaining which rule I was banning for.

imho he had used his comments purely to stir things up, and to provoke a reaction.  It would appear he really didnt like the reaction he got.

The fact Ljay is my wife is irrelevant, I would have acted the same whoever had used the alert mod.

As to the punishment of a 24 hour ban....Many of us have been banned for far longer, and imho for far less, or instance I was banned for several days for merely mentioning I had downloaded a game, and I know many other bans have been issued for things like air freshener mentions etc.  For these reasons I  think he massively over reacted.

If he hadnt, by his own admission, been deliberately provocative, none of this would have happened.  He believes however he has done nothing wrong.

As for me being scott free.....I was banned for over a week, Ljay has been banned permanently for doing nothing wrong.  Personally I don't feel that is scott free.  I know some feel she had done similar things in the past, that is totally irrelevant, the alert mod has been there for use, and it had been used against her in the past for which she had received warnings.  So totally irrelevant to this.  Quite what punishment you see fit I am not sure, as this place is hard work and takes hours of our time.  To sort each few new maintenance guides takes over an hour for example.  Its far easier to not be here than to help of the running of it.

As far as I am concerned, there is nothing more to be said.  It is done, History.
Whenever OOF is debated, there is always a current 'gripe of the moment'  I believe this is the current one, previous examples being too much politics, too much soft porn, too many jokes etc etc etc.

my point is why did no one in the mod/admin team as it appears contact jb to give an answer but just let it ride