Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Shackeng on 21 July 2016, 09:49:32
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Thanks to BigGriffin, I have sourced a brand new AR35 which was purchased some (6?) years ago to fit to a Senny. This is going on my TD to replace the, supposedly, re-furbished one that ate its thrust washer. Apart from the bell housing and torque converter, are there any other Senny only bits which will need swapping?
Also, as this box was bought from Germany at a cost of £660, this suggests that it may be older than 6 years. If so is it likely to have been fitted with the later, more robust thrust washer?
I am thinking that it may be sensible to strip and fit a Sonnax washer before fitting. :-\ :y
Any thoughts?
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I have a recollection that the wiring is all different on the Senator, so probably worth keeping the internal looms and connectors from the old one. Not sure on the thrust washer, but if you've got to swap bellhousings anyway, you might as well, IMHO.
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Deleted due to writing piffell ;D
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I know preventative maintenance is often a hugely useful thing, but surely having acquired a brand new box, you should be trouble free for a great many years to come. I completely take your logic, but I'd say fit and forget. But, it won't do any harm to fit one, of course. When I fitted brand new wishbones, I gave them an extra couple of coats of paint, no reason, other than 'why not? can't hurt'
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Those are my thoughts also, as the bellhousing has to come off anyway, its not much more to replace the thrust washer, and, I have an unwanted AR25 on which I can practice first!
Kev, I'm trying to remember what electrickery, apart from the selector which will have to be fitted, is involved. :-\ :y I certainly will be concerned if I have re-build the internal electrics. :-\
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From what Kevin says above, it seems that the box may be somewhat different internally. I am now getting cold feet. :-\ :-\ :-\
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As I understood it, though annoyingly both called AR25 / AR35, the Omegas AR25/35 is slightly different (the wiring etc you mention) and fitting the one in the other is a pita... I'm assuming you've got some extra info over me with regard to fitting them? If so would perhaps be nice to see a howto appear in the future? (Not that many people finding NOS Senny gearboxes for their Omegas, but the practice in reverse may be of great use to Carlton / Senator owners) ? :)
Edit: don't get cold feet, it's doable as far as I've heard, just requires some research and 'measure twice cut one' methodoly :y
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As I understood it, though annoyingly both called AR25 / AR35, the Omegas AR25/35 is slightly different (the wiring etc you mention) and fitting the one in the other is a pita... I'm assuming you've got some extra info over me with regard to fitting them? If so would perhaps be nice to see a howto appear in the future? (Not that many people finding NOS Senny gearboxes for their Omegas, but the practice in reverse may be of great use to Carlton / Senator owners) ? :)
Edit: don't get cold feet, it's doable as far as I've heard, just requires some research and 'measure twice cut once' methodoly :y
I agree with your last comment. The current box in my TD is an AR35, and was a direct swap for the old 25 sitting sadly under my bench. Nothing at all was required electrically, it was a straight swap, with just the bell housing and torque converter required. Box has worked OK for the 17k since fitting until acting strangely recently which turned out to be the thrust washer. Annoyingly it was sold to me as 'Refurbished 12k ago'. Hmmm, must have been a very hard 12k. >:(
I'm now wondering if even the gear ratios are likely to be the same, or are these determined by the electrickery? (Shows how much I know about auto boxes :-[)
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Seem to think the ratios are identical, sadly my brochures are all packed away at my parents, but have a neb at the ABS website, they have some detail info from the brochures. :y
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I'm now wondering if even the gear ratios are likely to be the same, or are these determined by the electrickery? (Shows how much I know about auto boxes :-[)
Ratios are determined mechanically via the planetary gear sets, which gear you are in is determined by the solenoids 'locking' gear sets via brake bands.
This video should explain everything*: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FyC3dn3HJY
*It won't, it really won't, but it's very neat nonetheless. Automatic gearboxes are still magic and fairydust to me.
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Seem to think the ratios are identical, sadly my brochures are all packed away at my parents, but have a neb at the ABS website, they have some detail info from the brochures. :y
Just checked, they are the same except
Reverse: Omega=2.00:1, Senny 1.92:1
I don't see that as a problem. :y
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I'm now wondering if even the gear ratios are likely to be the same, or are these determined by the electrickery? (Shows how much I know about auto boxes :-[)
Ratios are determined mechanically via the planetary gear sets, which gear you are in is determined by the solenoids 'locking' gear sets via brake bands.
This video should explain everything*: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FyC3dn3HJY
*It won't, it really won't, but it's very neat nonetheless. Automatic gearboxes are still magic and fairydust to me.
This is the bit that concerns me, as presumably given the different power outputs of Senny straight six vs Omega V6 this may affect speeds at which gears change. Having said that, the Ar35 in my TD appears to behave the same as the old AR25 I took out. :-\ :-\ :-\
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Just a thought.. you could give this bloke a ring and see if he can shine any light on your thoughts.
I was in there a few years ago talking to him about AR25 and solenoids and he seemed clued up on the omega box...
http://www.mechanicalworkshop.co.uk/
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This is the bit that concerns me, as presumably given the different power outputs of Senny straight six vs Omega V6 this may affect speeds at which gears change. Having said that, the Ar35 in my TD appears to behave the same as the old AR25 I took out. :-\ :-\ :-\
IIRC the speed of change is related to the hydraulic pressure routed to the brake bands via the solenoids; that should be a function of both pump and software (the solenoids are likely PWM'd).. a bigger concern would be whether the pressure applied would be enough to lock the gearset and whether the brake bands are capable of doing so..
IIRC the 24v was pretty comparable to the later V6 though in power and torque?
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The shifting behaviour is all electronically controlled by signals to the solenoids, as said, and you'll be keeping the Omega's ECU, so no problems there.
What you might find is that some of the connectors and wiring are different. You'll have everything you need on the old box and I'd imagine it'll swap straight over. All I'm reporting is heresay, however, so please don't take it as gospel. Autobahnstormers would probably be the place to ask for definitive information. :y
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I would imagine it will have a dipstick fitted which will need to be removed, and its arpeture blanked off.
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Just a thought.. you could give this bloke a ring and see if he can shine any light on your thoughts.
I was in there a few years ago talking to him about AR25 and solenoids and he seemed clued up on the omega box...
http://www.mechanicalworkshop.co.uk/
Cheers BT, I'll give him a bell. :y
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The shifting behaviour is all electronically controlled by signals to the solenoids, as said, and you'll be keeping the Omega's ECU, so no problems there.
What you might find is that some of the connectors and wiring are different. You'll have everything you need on the old box and I'd imagine it'll swap straight over. All I'm reporting is heresay, however, so please don't take it as gospel. Autobahnstormers would probably be the place to ask for definitive information. :y
Thanks, BG is kindly doing that for me. :y
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The Sonax thrust washer was never fitted by GM, it will still have the chocolate and nylon variety, so that wants fitting anyway for the ultimate upgrade.
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Do they just disintegrate whatever, or is it just an issue mostly with the AR35s, with higher torque being put through them?
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Do they just disintegrate whatever, or is it just an issue mostly with the AR35s, with higher torque being put through them?
The plastic goes brittle. :)
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Thanks :y
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The Sonax thrust washer was never fitted by GM, it will still have the chocolate and nylon variety, so that wants fitting anyway for the ultimate upgrade.
Thanks Mark. :y
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Yes I would say its an age thing where the plastic goes brittle then couple it with older oil that has failing lube properties and they crack and fall off.
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Right lot of assumptions here by me.
I would think the senators' gear box uses a different selector switch, can't see the internal wires being different,you really need both boxes side by side, to check.
T.i.s might help, remember senator was still available when the omega was released.
Very last senators had coil-packs, and brakes were carried over.
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Thanks BG, yes I anticipated changing the selector. I phoned two autobox specialists today, who both think the internals are the same. What are T.I.'s? :y
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Thanks BG, yes I anticipated changing the selector. I phoned two autobox specialists today, who both think the internals are the same. What are T.I.'s? :y
Did you speak to the old bloke at the link i gave you :-\
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Tis 2000. God software.
Changing over looms should be easy enough. I was going to do this to my v70 but it blew out the transmission pipes in the snow. So i never got to change the box
Is there a problem with having a dipstick?
Would make life easier to check the condition of the oil
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I believe the dipstick was deleted for the Omega because it wouldn't physically fit the car ? :-\
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Thanks BG, yes I anticipated changing the selector. I phoned two autobox specialists today, who both think the internals are the same. What are T.I.'s? :y
Did you speak to the old bloke at the link i gave you :-\
No reply today, I'll try again. :y
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I believe the dipstick was deleted for the Omega because it wouldn't physically fit the car ? :-\
It will be interesting to see where that is. :y
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Thanks to BigGriffin, I have sourced a brand new AR35 which was purchased some (6?) years ago to fit to a Senny. This is going on my TD to replace the, supposedly, re-furbished one that ate its thrust washer. Apart from the bell housing and torque converter, are there any other Senny only bits which will need swapping?
Also, as this box was bought from Germany at a cost of £660, this suggests that it may be older than 6 years. If so is it likely to have been fitted with the later, more robust thrust washer?
I am thinking that it may be sensible to strip and fit a Sonnax washer before fitting. :-\ :y
Any thoughts?
They are hard to get now - I couldn't in a time frame that suited when I overhauled my last box so just fitted a new plastic one. They last 100K miles so unless you are really committed to Omegas should not be an issue. I am not sure I would want to open a 'factory sealed' box anyway - you might just introduce FOD / cause issues.
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I believe the dipstick was deleted for the Omega because it wouldn't physically fit the car ? :-\
There's still plenty of omegas' with dipsticks, they just happen to be driving(aiming) them. ;D ;D
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I believe the dipstick was deleted for the Omega because it wouldn't physically fit the car ? :-\
More likely to save a couple of quid and to enforce the idea that the gearbox is sealed for life.
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Thanks to BigGriffin, I have sourced a brand new AR35 which was purchased some (6?) years ago to fit to a Senny. This is going on my TD to replace the, supposedly, re-furbished one that ate its thrust washer. Apart from the bell housing and torque converter, are there any other Senny only bits which will need swapping?
Also, as this box was bought from Germany at a cost of £660, this suggests that it may be older than 6 years. If so is it likely to have been fitted with the later, more robust thrust washer?
I am thinking that it may be sensible to strip and fit a Sonnax washer before fitting. :-\ :y
Any thoughts?
They are hard to get now - I couldn't in a time frame that suited when I overhauled my last box so just fitted a new plastic one. They last 100K miles so unless you are really committed to Omegas should not be an issue. I am not sure I would want to open a 'factory sealed' box anyway - you might just introduce FOD / cause issues.
JPAT have them. I got mine by return. :y
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I believe the dipstick was deleted for the Omega because it wouldn't physically fit the car ? :-\
More likely to save a couple of quid and to enforce the idea that the gearbox is sealed for life.
Could be. Which would be a bonus for the op as it would give the option of checking ATF without faffing around under the car. :y
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Given where the gearbox dipstick sat on the senator, there is no way it will work with a V6 in there.
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Given where the gearbox dipstick sat on the senator, there is no way it will work with a V6 in there.
Believe Shackeng is putting this box in the 2.5tdi... straight six too...
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Given where the gearbox dipstick sat on the senator, there is no way it will work with a V6 in there.
Believe Shackeng is putting this box in the 2.5tdi... straight six too...
Correct, 2.5TD :y
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Given where the gearbox dipstick sat on the senator, there is no way it will work with a V6 in there.
Whereabouts is the dipstick on the Senny box?
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From memory- drivers side, comes from half way along the box bends up to finish under the windscreen scuttle.
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From memory- drivers side, comes from half way along the box bends up to finish under the windscreen scuttle.
Ah one of those American style ones about 3' long. :-\ I shall find out tomorrow when I pick up the box. :y
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Well picked it up today. Definitely brand new, but does not have AR35 on the plate, it has a GM number 90399204. It looks identical except for a few extras, dipstick tube, a gear selector shaft on both sides of the box, and what looks like a speedo pickup just in front of the propshaft connector plate. I'll try to post some pics in the next day or so. :y
It would be really cool if I could use the dipstick, I'll have a look underneath to see if its possible. :-\
Oh and I also got a brand new ECU thrown in. Bosch with the number 96 041 130. Not sure about that, but I presume it is correct for the Senator. :-\
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(http://i952.photobucket.com/albums/ae10/Tristar-1/2575_zpsezingvyp.jpg) (http://s952.photobucket.com/user/Tristar-1/media/2575_zpsezingvyp.jpg.html)
ID plate
(http://i952.photobucket.com/albums/ae10/Tristar-1/2577_zpsjzzehzll.jpg) (http://s952.photobucket.com/user/Tristar-1/media/2577_zpsjzzehzll.jpg.html)
Dipstick tube and what appears to be a selector shaft on the RH side of box.
(http://i952.photobucket.com/albums/ae10/Tristar-1/2578_zpszthgyq3s.jpg) (http://s952.photobucket.com/user/Tristar-1/media/2578_zpszthgyq3s.jpg.html)
Is this the speedo cable connection on a Senny?
(http://i952.photobucket.com/albums/ae10/Tristar-1/2583_zpshtkxhzkz.jpg) (http://s952.photobucket.com/user/Tristar-1/media/2583_zpshtkxhzkz.jpg.html)
Nice new box.
(http://i952.photobucket.com/albums/ae10/Tristar-1/2587_zpsp2bmax5x.jpg) (http://s952.photobucket.com/user/Tristar-1/media/2587_zpsp2bmax5x.jpg.html)
ECU that came with it. Can anyone help with positive identification of this?
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It would be nice to use the dipstick, but I doubt it will be practicable, and there is no obvious way to fill this box as the sump has no level plug, only a drain plug.... which would be handy if there was a level plug! Therefore I will swap the sump from mine. I presume the Senny had a filler point in the ATF cooler pipes or similar, or used the dipstick tube which has an 'o' ring seal on the outside end, so another sealed pipe connects to it. :-\
If space is available for fitting to the car with the tube still attached, I could leave it in place with the existing transit plug on the end, however, if that is not an option, I would hope to remove it without damaging the mounting hole. :-\
Ideally I would then tap the hole and fit a screw plug, unfortunately, this is liable to introduce aluminium swarf into the front sump. :-\ I could remove the sump before tapping, and hope to catch any swarf, as the dipstick presumably appears in a clear area of the sump. Does anyone have any good ideas as to how else to plug this hole? :-\ :-\ :-\
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Use dipstick to fill... Hole will be about the same diameter ;)
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Use dipstick to fill... Hole will be about the same diameter ;)
Sorry, I don't follow that Al. :-\ :-\ :-\
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The ECU is now identified positively as the auto transmission ECU for a Senator, which I shall sell as no use to me. :y
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Use dipstick to fill... Hole will be about the same diameter ;)
If you mean use the dipstick tube to fill the box, I doubt this will be possible. If you look at the pic above, the tube inlet will be inaccessible when the box is fitted. :y
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Use dipstick to fill... Hole will be about the same diameter ;)
If you mean use the dipstick tube to fill the box, I doubt this will be possible. If you look at the pic above, the tube inlet will be inaccessible when the box is fitted. :y
A close up of the dipstick and tube would be handy, when fitted it goes (or should) up to the bulkhead in the engine bay on the drivers side :y
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This might help :y
(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w75/Gav24v/IMG_20160725_200842_zpsmwf3pkrm.jpg)
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Thanks Mr G, that makes sense, as I think the oil it being poured into an extension of the tube I have got fitted. I'll post a pic of the top of the tube for interest. :y
I suspect you have a Haynes for the Senny. ::) :y
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Slightly off topic, but that was exactly the same method of filling the autobox on the Ford Granada Scorpio .... remove dipstick, fill, replace dipstick !! :)
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Slightly off topic, but that was exactly the same method of filling the autobox on the Ford Granada Scorpio .... remove dipstick, fill, replace dipstick !! :)
They neglected to fit a drain plug on the A4LD though, effectively sealing it for life ::)
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Slightly off topic, but that was exactly the same method of filling the autobox on the Ford Granada Scorpio .... remove dipstick, fill, replace dipstick !! :)
They neglected to fit a drain plug on the A4LD though, effectively sealing it for life ::)
Mine was modified with an external transmission cooler for towing so had a drain tap placed in the line, wasn't needed in France when a seal failed and it was getting through 5 litres of ATF/100 miles !! but she made it to the Loire Valley where she went off for repair and I drove a brand new C5 for a couple of weeks (underside of the car and the front of the van were an odd shade of pink for a long time after !!!)
:)
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Slightly off topic, but that was exactly the same method of filling the autobox on the Ford Granada Scorpio .... remove dipstick, fill, replace dipstick !! :)
It was the procedure on pretty much every automatic until some oppswit decided to delete the dipstick.
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Thanks Mr G, that makes sense, as I think the oil it being poured into an extension of the tube I have got fitted. I'll post a pic of the top of the tube for interest. :y
I suspect you have a Haynes for the Senny. ::) :y
I do have one indeed, possibly two even ;)
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Can anyone shed light on pics 2 & 3? Is the square drive at the rear of the box a speedo offtake? And why did they fit an selector shaft on each side of the box? given its an auto. Or could the RH shaft have been for some sort of position indicator? :-\ :-\ :-\
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Can anyone shed light on pics 2 & 3? Is the square drive at the rear of the box a speedo offtake? And why did they fit an selector shaft on each side of the box? given its an auto. Or could the RH shaft have been for some sort of position indicator? :-\ :-\ :-\
Picture 3 is the speed signal output IIRC, there is a black cylinder shaped signal generator that bolts on there with a two wire output, it`s the same on the manuals.
When I get home tonight I`ll have a look at the manual and see if there are any photos, it was a while ago since I had my Senator now and the auto box was short lived, it went to thr tip after converting it to manual.
BTW if you want the manual, if it is any use to you, PM me your address and I`ll post it on :y
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Can anyone shed light on pics 2 & 3? Is the square drive at the rear of the box a speedo offtake? And why did they fit an selector shaft on each side of the box? given its an auto. Or could the RH shaft have been for some sort of position indicator? :-\ :-\ :-\
The hollow square drive is for a traditional speedo cable. The cable retaining nut screws onto the large threaded body.
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Given where the gearbox dipstick sat on the senator, there is no way it will work with a V6 in there.
Believe Shackeng is putting this box in the 2.5tdi... straight six too...
Still suspect it will be a struggle, the inlet setup on the TD is pretty large and the engines in the Omega are set slightly further back on the Senny
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Can anyone shed light on pics 2 & 3? Is the square drive at the rear of the box a speedo offtake? And why did they fit an selector shaft on each side of the box? given its an auto. Or could the RH shaft have been for some sort of position indicator? :-\ :-\ :-\
Picture 3 is the speed signal output IIRC, there is a black cylinder shaped signal generator that bolts on there with a two wire output, it`s the same on the manuals.
When I get home tonight I`ll have a look at the manual and see if there are any photos, it was a while ago since I had my Senator now and the auto box was short lived, it went to thr tip after converting it to manual.
BTW if you want the manual, if it is any use to you, PM me your address and I`ll post it on :y
Thanks, I thought it was. No, don't need the manual thanks, as I just need that info on the odds and ends extra on the box. :y
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Given where the gearbox dipstick sat on the senator, there is no way it will work with a V6 in there.
Believe Shackeng is putting this box in the 2.5tdi... straight six too...
Still suspect it will be a struggle, the inlet setup on the TD is pretty large and the engines in the Omega are set slightly further back on the Senny
LH side Mark. :y
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Can anyone shed light on pics 2 & 3? Is the square drive at the rear of the box a speedo offtake? And why did they fit an selector shaft on each side of the box? given its an auto. Or could the RH shaft have been for some sort of position indicator? :-\ :-\ :-\
Picture 3 is the speed signal output IIRC, there is a black cylinder shaped signal generator that bolts on there with a two wire output, it`s the same on the manuals.
When I get home tonight I`ll have a look at the manual and see if there are any photos, it was a while ago since I had my Senator now and the auto box was short lived, it went to thr tip after converting it to manual.
BTW if you want the manual, if it is any use to you, PM me your address and I`ll post it on :y
Thanks, I thought it was. No, don't need the manual thanks, as I just need that info on the odds and ends extra on the box. :y
I`ll have a look tonight and post up some relevant pics, there`s not much on the auto box though, no exploded diagram.
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(http://i952.photobucket.com/albums/ae10/Tristar-1/Senator%20Gearbox%20Dipstick%20007_zpsbtnmm1kg.jpg) (http://s952.photobucket.com/user/Tristar-1/media/Senator%20Gearbox%20Dipstick%20007_zpsbtnmm1kg.jpg.html)
What looks like a selector shaft on the RH side directly opposite the normal selector. :-\
(http://i952.photobucket.com/albums/ae10/Tristar-1/Senator%20Gearbox%20Dipstick%20003_zpsjb6qnntq.jpg) (http://s952.photobucket.com/user/Tristar-1/media/Senator%20Gearbox%20Dipstick%20003_zpsjb6qnntq.jpg.html)
Full pic of the dipstick tube. It is mounted in a rubber sleeve, and easily removable, but how to safely block the aperture? :-\
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Tap it and put a bolt in or an aftermarket sump plug kit?
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Full pic of the dipstick tube. It is mounted in a rubber sleeve, and easily removable, but how to safely block the aperture? :-\
Cut down the tube so that there's about 20mm left. weld a plate over the end and refit as normal.
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The sump isn't going to be pressurised on the autobox, is it? (I don't think) .. most likely that yellow cover already fitted at the end of the stub would be fine, assuming the stub of dipstick tube clears the firewall.
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The sump isn't going to be pressurised on the autobox, is it? (I don't think) .. most likely that yellow cover already fitted at the end of the stub would be fine, assuming the stub of dipstick tube clears the firewall.
That's going to be as secure as a dipstick shoved in the end, so yes, I'd say leave it at that.
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Incidentally I suspect this is what would normally fit on the end over that rubber O-ring and snake it's way up the rest of the firewall on the Senator: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FILLER-TUBE-for-AR25-AR35-AUTO-GEARBOX-Senator-B-/360283397015
If you really want that easily accessible fill tube, maybe that could be bodged modified to fit the Omega firewall.
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Incidentally I suspect this is what would normally fit on the end over that rubber O-ring and snake it's way up the rest of the firewall on the Senator: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FILLER-TUBE-for-AR25-AR35-AUTO-GEARBOX-Senator-B-/360283397015
If you really want that easily accessible fill tube, maybe that could be bodged modified to fit the Omega firewall.
Hmm, its a thought. However I have now removed the existing tube from its rubber mounting seal, and, hooray, found a perfectly tight fitting rubber bung from my rubber seals/stoppers gash box. You know the type, with several concentric rings of rubber around the core. It fits perfectly, and is a tighter fit in the seal than was the tube, so I don't think it will be a problem, and as you say Aaron, the sump is not under pressure .
Thanks all for your suggestions, all workable I would think. At least with this solution, I will not be offering the box up, only to find that something interferes with the tube. :y :y :y
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Any ideas what the RH 'selector shaft' may have been for.? :-\ :-\ :-\
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Incidentally I suspect this is what would normally fit on the end over that rubber O-ring and snake it's way up the rest of the firewall on the Senator: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FILLER-TUBE-for-AR25-AR35-AUTO-GEARBOX-Senator-B-/360283397015
If you really want that easily accessible fill tube, maybe that could be bodged modified to fit the Omega firewall.
Thats the route I would be going down, I`m pretty sure it could be made to clear the firewall and it gives you fuss free filling.
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Can't see oil cooler pipes on new box.
Selector shaft was done for different applications,
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Can't see oil cooler pipes on new box.
Selector shaft was done for different applications,
I think they`re on the other side, Senny definitely had them :y
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Can't see oil cooler pipes on new box.
Selector shaft was done for different applications,
Pic 4, Reply 43. RH side of box as standard. :y
I am just looking for a cap to cover the speedo pickup, and its ready to go on. Rear sump to be changed when fitted. :y
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Digressing slightly, box is made in France, yet bell housing bolts are imperial head size! :y
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sacre bleu!
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Digressing slightly, box is made in France, yet bell housing bolts are imperial head size! :y
4l30-E is a US designed box (its been developed over tens of years!) made in Strasbourg.....hence imperial fastenings as the yanks are further behind than us
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Digressing slightly, box is made in France, yet bell housing bolts are imperial head size! :y
4l30-E is a US designed box (its been developed over tens of years!) made in Strasbourg.....hence imperial fastenings as the yanks are further behind than us
I noticed that. :y
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Almost ready to go on, just awaiting a different sump. However, having removed the transit bar and torque converter from the new box prior to removing the bell housing (which is to be swapped with the one coming off the TD), I am unable to turn the gearbox by the propshaft drive plate, even when applying reasonable force. As the transit bar locked the box via the torque converter, I cannot imagine it will be locked elsewhere. It has been sitting in a shed for at least 6 years, but is full of clean ATF, and I am at a loss as to why it will not turn.
Any ideas, other than apply more force assuming it is just stuck? :y :y :y
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Almost ready to go on, just awaiting a different sump. However, having removed the transit bar and torque converter from the new box prior to removing the bell housing (which is to be swapped with the one coming off the TD), I am unable to turn the gearbox by the propshaft drive plate, even when applying reasonable force. As the transit bar locked the box via the torque converter, I cannot imagine it will be locked elsewhere. It has been sitting in a shed for at least 6 years, but is full of clean ATF, and I am at a loss as to why it will not turn.
Any ideas, other than apply more force assuming it is just stuck? :y :y :y
A guess, but could it be I 'park'?
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Of course! Slaps head in disgust. I'll report back. :-[ :y
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It was exactly that. Believe it or not I used to have a brain, but it seems to have gone AWOL lately. :-[ :-[ :-[
Thanks Steve. :y :y :y
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It was exactly that. Believe it or not I used to have a brain, but it seems to have gone AWOL lately. :-[ :-[ :-[
Thanks Steve. :y :y :y
No worries, my problem is I only seem able to see these things when it's not me in the situation!
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Bugger, I thought it was all going too well. I have belatedly examined the two electrical plug connections on the LH side of the box and spotted that they are in reversed positions, indicating that they affect solenoids in different parts of the box, and also the large round connector is a female receptor on the new box, but male on the old one. :( :( :( Also even if I swapped the round plug, I would have no idea which wire went to which connection in the plug, although I suppose a Haynes Senator wiring diagram might help IF the colour codes were the same. All in all I think it is a very difficult proposition, which is a great shame to have to lose this brand new box.
New Box Connections
(http://i952.photobucket.com/albums/ae10/Tristar-1/AR35%20Elect%20connections%20001_zpsouh5fsce.jpg) (http://s952.photobucket.com/user/Tristar-1/media/AR35%20Elect%20connections%20001_zpsouh5fsce.jpg.html)
Old (AR25) Box Connections
(http://i952.photobucket.com/albums/ae10/Tristar-1/AR35%20Elect%20connections%20002_zps3dgxfru8.jpg) (http://s952.photobucket.com/user/Tristar-1/media/AR35%20Elect%20connections%20002_zps3dgxfru8.jpg.html)
I think this is probably a deal breaker, as even if I swapped the plugs to connect to the new one, it seems unlikely that it will operate correctly with my ECU. Of course I have the Senator ECU with it, but to integrate that in the Omega is a job too far for me.
Ah well, such is life. Back to plan A and repair the old box with a new thrust washer. >:( >:( >:(
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With the sump off, swapping the internal wiring loom and connector should be pretty straight forward. :y
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With the sump off, swapping the internal wiring loom and connector should be pretty straight forward. :y
Was thinking the very same :y
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But do they do the same things inside the box? Just spoke with an autobox specialist in Leicester recommended by BigTime. He advised that the ECU will quite likely read fault codes if everything is not identical. The reverse gear is a different ratio by only a small margin, but he says this could well put it into limp mode.? :-\ :-\ :-\
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With the sump off, swapping the internal wiring loom and connector should be pretty straight forward. :y
I guess this is worth a try, I was just hoping only to have to do the box swap once, and if this didn't work it will be twice, and at my age will probably kill me.!
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I don't see it being an issue, from memory there are two connectors, one for the front sump and one for the rear, I recall the connectors being held in with metal clip so easy enough to pop out and the wiring is minimal and dead easy to access (with filter removed).
Given the sump has to come off anyway
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I don't see it being an issue, from memory there are two connectors, one for the front sump and one for the rear, I recall the connectors being held in with metal clip so easy enough to pop out and the wiring is minimal and dead easy to access (with filter removed).
Given the sump has to come off anyway
Mark, are you saying that although the connectors are above the opposite sumps, they will still connect to the same solenoids etc. and do the same things inside the box? :-\ I would also have trouble if the colour codes are different. :-\
However, I will drop the sumps on both to have a look, as I already have the AR25 whose plugs I could use. :y
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Internals are the same from memory, been in the same positions etc
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Having all sumps off both the AR25 and new AR35, the wiring is virtually identical, and the mechanicals appear identical. Apart from the new one utilises the earth lug in the rear sump, which is unused in the AR25. Also the 7 pin plug on the old one has two wires which are connected together internally, so straight in and out of the plug, doing nothing inside, and I could connect these together externally. There is also one blank pin, so it is effectively only a 4 pin plug.
Unfortunately it is not possible to exchange the receptor plugs from the old box to the new one, as the plugs are different diameter. Multi-pin is 28mm, and 4 pin is 22mm, and the new box mounting holes are the correct size but in the wrong place.
Therefore the answer seems to be to swap the cable ends on the car cables to match the existing plugs on the new box, although the 4 pin one is a slightly different pin size, and as I was unable to remove the 4 pin one undamaged from the old box due to brittle plastic, I will need a complete new connector for that, then use the internal wiring from the old box. :-\ :-\ :-\
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Blimey, nothing easy. What about asking if some has a scrap ar25/35, and would remove looms for you.I know it's more expense, :o
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Blimey, nothing easy. What about asking if some has a scrap ar25/35, and would remove looms for you.I know it's more expense, :o
Thanks Trev, I already have an old AR25, and intend using the looms of which I have photographed and drawn a wiring diagram, and I am reasonably happy at Mark's suggestion that they can be swapped. I think they just chose a different way of doing the essentially the same wiring. It's a bummer that the receptor holes are a different size, otherwise it would have been - relatively - simple. I shall get there eventually. :y
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Blimey, nothing easy. What about asking if some has a scrap ar25/35, and would remove looms for you.I know it's more expense, :o
Thanks Trev, I already have an old AR25, and intend using the looms of which I have photographed and drawn a wiring diagram, and I am reasonably happy at Mark's suggestion that they can be swapped. I think they just chose a different way of doing the essentially the same wiring. It's a bummer that the receptor holes are a different size, otherwise it would have been - relatively - simple. I shall get there eventually. :y
Keep at it, Chris, I'm sure you'll get there :y
Even if you can't get completely round this box change, it's all valuable experience.
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GM change just one thing on lots of things just to be awkward, and try to stop people using the older but technically the same parts, as you are finding out. Bastiss ;)
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Blimey, nothing easy. What about asking if some has a scrap ar25/35, and would remove looms for you.I know it's more expense, :o
Thanks Trev, I already have an old AR25, and intend using the looms of which I have photographed and drawn a wiring diagram, and I am reasonably happy at Mark's suggestion that they can be swapped. I think they just chose a different way of doing the essentially the same wiring. It's a bummer that the receptor holes are a different size, otherwise it would have been - relatively - simple. I shall get there eventually. :y
Keep at it, Chris, I'm sure you'll get there :y
Even if you can't get completely round this box change, it's all valuable experience.
This I have plenty of, its skill I require! :-[ :y
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That BigGriffin has a lot to answer for! ::) Another fine mess!! ;) ;D
Keep at it though Shack, I'm sure you'll get there in the end! :y
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That BigGriffin has a lot to answer for! ::) Another fine mess!! ;) ;D
Keep at it though Shack, I'm sure you'll get there in the end! :y
Oi you wurzel, how's it my mess, please sir (admin) that Tigger picking on me. ;D
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Having all sumps off both the AR25 and new AR35, the wiring is virtually identical, and the mechanicals appear identical. Apart from the new one utilises the earth lug in the rear sump, which is unused in the AR25. Also the 7 pin plug on the old one has two wires which are connected together internally, so straight in and out of the plug, doing nothing inside, and I could connect these together externally. There is also one blank pin, so it is effectively only a 4 pin plug.
Unfortunately it is not possible to exchange the receptor plugs from the old box to the new one, as the plugs are different diameter. Multi-pin is 28mm, and 4 pin is 22mm, and the new box mounting holes are the correct size but in the wrong place.
Therefore the answer seems to be to swap the cable ends on the car cables to match the existing plugs on the new box, although the 4 pin one is a slightly different pin size, and as I was unable to remove the 4 pin one undamaged from the old box due to brittle plastic, I will need a complete new connector for that, then use the internal wiring from the old box. :-\ :-\ :-\
Is there space to drill new holes in the correct locations for the Omega loom & plugs? Cut the wires off the Senator plugs and leave them in the holes to keep the oil in? :-\
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OMG! We're drilling holes in the gearbox casing now. ;D
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OMG! We're drilling holes in the gearbox casing now. ;D
What can possibly go wrong? 😀
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Having all sumps off both the AR25 and new AR35, the wiring is virtually identical, and the mechanicals appear identical. Apart from the new one utilises the earth lug in the rear sump, which is unused in the AR25. Also the 7 pin plug on the old one has two wires which are connected together internally, so straight in and out of the plug, doing nothing inside, and I could connect these together externally. There is also one blank pin, so it is effectively only a 4 pin plug.
Unfortunately it is not possible to exchange the receptor plugs from the old box to the new one, as the plugs are different diameter. Multi-pin is 28mm, and 4 pin is 22mm, and the new box mounting holes are the correct size but in the wrong place.
Therefore the answer seems to be to swap the cable ends on the car cables to match the existing plugs on the new box, although the 4 pin one is a slightly different pin size, and as I was unable to remove the 4 pin one undamaged from the old box due to brittle plastic, I will need a complete new connector for that, then use the internal wiring from the old box. :-\ :-\ :-\
Is there space to drill new holes in the correct locations for the Omega loom & plugs? Cut the wires off the Senator plugs and leave them in the holes to keep the oil in? :-\
This picture seems to show that there isn't space to go adding new holes.
I thought you were saying that the different captive sockets fitted different size holes through the casting but now I am not so sure :-\
(http://i952.photobucket.com/albums/ae10/Tristar-1/AR35%20Elect%20connections%20002_zps3dgxfru8.jpg)
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OMG! We're drilling holes in the gearbox casing now. ;D
What can possibly go wrong? 😀
Lots
Measure twice, cut once.
If you haven't cobbled together one good gearbox using two old ones before then you might want to ask a responsible adult to supervise......
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No need to cut any holes. Just get some old connectors of both types and make up some adaptor cables. :y
PM on its' way, Shackeng. ;)
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No need to cut any holes. Just get some old connectors of both types and make up some adaptor cables. :y
PM on its' way, Shackeng. ;)
Exactly this :y
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Yep, this was my plan. I propose to fit the old receptor plugs in the new box, provided that they fit the holes, and as both connectors in reality have only 4 working wires in each, I will splice 'new' Omega type connectors into my existing harness, thus preserving the existing plugs should another box change be necessary.
If anyone is breaking an auto Omega I need the two connector plugs plus a foot or so of wiring tails on each. :y
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Digressing slightly, Mr Gav has sent me the servicing requirement for the Senator box:
The transmission fluid should be changed every 36k or four years, which ever comes first.
Capacities are drain and refill 2.6 litres
After removing the large sump 4.7 litres
From dry 6.4 litres
Very interesting if they are referring to the same box that I have, as the Omega is 'sealed for life'. :y
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Well unfortunately, the old plugs do not fit both the holes in the new box. The 4 pin from the old box above the small sump moves nicely into the required position above the small sump in the new box, but the 7 pin plug is too wide. The ideal solution would be to ream the hole out from 22mm to 26mm. In the meantime I'll try to track down a suitable 6 pin connector to fit.
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Further info regarding the internal wiring. On the old box, what I thought was 2 wires from the multi pin plug in the large rear sump connected together inside the box, is correct, however they are connected together via what appears to be a very small resistor about 2mm long. This is all inside a plastic sheath, so difficult to determine exactly what type it is.
In the new box, a similar resistor is connected between the plug and the earthing lug inside the small forward sump.
Could these be temperature sensors of some sort?
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I can read a temperature for the gearbox using my scan tool. I assumed that there was a sensor in the oil flow somewhere :-\
If all the other wires are connected to solenoids then I suppose the mystery component must be the temperature sensor.
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I can read a temperature for the gearbox using my scan tool. I assumed that there was a sensor in the oil flow somewhere :-\
If all the other wires are connected to solenoids then I suppose the mystery component must be the temperature sensor.
It's the only reason I can think of, and there is one in both boxes, albeit in different sumps, and which is the reason for the connection problems. I'm hoping Kevin will enlighten me. :y
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Update. I was able to swap the 4 pin plug from the old box into the correct, forward small sump in the new box in place of the 6 pin plug, so the internal harness will transfer from the old box with it. However, the rear sump mounting hole in the new box is 4mm too small to take the 7 pin plug (6 only in use) from the old one, 22mm instead of 26mm. Ideally I would just have the hole in the box reamed out to take the plug, however, as only six pins are in use I am hoping to find a suitable 6 pin plug of 22mm dia. which I will then incorporate into the existing internal harness, or get an auto electrician to do it for me. I will then splice the appropriate external connector onto my car loom.
Currently the new box has its temperature thermistor in the small sump and utilises the unused, in the Omega, ground (earth) spade lug that some of you, like me, may have puzzled over in the sump. The Omega AR25/35 has its thermistor in the large rear sump joining two of the pins on the 7 (6) pin plug, so straight in and out of the box just sampling the temp. with the thermistor.
Onwards and Upwards. and many thanks for all the support I am receiving on this project. :y :y :y
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Incidentally I suspect this is what would normally fit on the end over that rubber O-ring and snake it's way up the rest of the firewall on the Senator: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FILLER-TUBE-for-AR25-AR35-AUTO-GEARBOX-Senator-B-/360283397015
If you really want that easily accessible fill tube, maybe that could be bodged modified to fit the Omega firewall.
Showing my confidence that I will get this going, I bought the above for a tenner in the hope that it will fit down the side of the engine in the TD. Especially as it was recommended to change the ATF every 36k in the Senny box. It certainly looks as though it will fit, and thanks for suggestion Aaron. :y
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Assuming that the wiring problems are overcome, is the fact that the reverse ratio is different : Omega=2.00:1, Senny 1.92:1, likely to throw up any warnings?
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This is a fascinating read. I had half an eye on that box you had bought (I'm also an ABS member), I'm almost glad I didn't bother now as it sounds like a lot of work you're having to go through. Not that there's too much wrong with the AR25 in my TD, yet. It's a bit slow engaging reverse, but other than that its ok. I've got the filter and gaskets so it'll be getting a good service in a week or so.
Looking forward to further updates on your work!
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Assuming that the wiring problems are overcome, is the fact that the reverse ratio is different : Omega=2.00:1, Senny 1.92:1, likely to throw up any warnings?
I doubt it. Reverse is selected manually with no involvement of the ECU.
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Unfortunately I am getting nowhere with my search for a suitable 6 pin connector to fit to the old harness and then fit the 22mm hole in the rear sump, and may have to consider the option of reaming out the hole to 27mm (not 26 as previously stated) to accept the 7 pin plug from the old box. :(
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I'm currently at an impasse with this project. I am unable to find any 6 pin plug connectors that will fit the 22mm hole in my new box. These are all sold, according to suppliers of harnesses (including one in the US), as type specific items, with no information available as to diameter of fitment. I have also been unable to find a manufacturer of the plugs themselves, who in any case would probably only deal with car producers or spares suppliers. >:( >:( >:( :-\
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Get the step drill out.
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That's the road I am considering, bearing in mind that the sumps are not pressurised to any great degree, so it merely has to be leak proof. :y
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At what stage is this impasse? Just wondering, because you've still the potential to source a good, used Omega AR35; certainly you've put plenty of hours into this, which (in theory of course) you were hoping to saving yourself, by buying the brand new box.
I'm not saying 'cut your losses' as such, because you've still got a fabulous box, which would be a nice easy fit in any straight-six pre-Omega B product of Russelsheim. I suppose what I'm saying is I (and I'm sure plenty of others) don't want to see you losing precious hours of life buggering around with this box and causing more aggro than its worth, when there must be actual Omega boxes available which can be done with ease in a day, or relax and spend 2 days and do the sonax washer mod too. :-\
The above is intended positively, and in the best way, in no way being critical, just trying to get the best resolution for you :)
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At what stage is this impasse? Just wondering, because you've still the potential to source a good, used Omega AR35; certainly you've put plenty of hours into this, which (in theory of course) you were hoping to saving yourself, by buying the brand new box.
I'm not saying 'cut your losses' as such, because you've still got a fabulous box, which would be a nice easy fit in any straight-six pre-Omega B product of Russelsheim. I suppose what I'm saying is I (and I'm sure plenty of others) don't want to see you losing precious hours of life buggering around with this box and causing more aggro than its worth, when there must be actual Omega boxes available which can be done with ease in a day, or relax and spend 2 days and do the sonax washer mod too. :-\
The above is intended positively, and in the best way, in no way being critical, just trying to get the best resolution for you :)
None taken, however the actual time spent is not significant, it probably appears more due to my multiple posts. Remember, I have a spare car to use, plus SWMBO's, so there is no great rush, and I have a large double garage/workshop to play in. Also, as I hope to keep the TD Estate for as long as possible, I would prefer to fit a brand new gearbox. The plan is, once this is fitted, to refurbish the old box as a spare for either car. If it doesn't work, then the refurbished box will go straight back in.:y
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That's a good plan, and if you're in for the 'long haul' (as I am too so fully empathise with what youre saying) then an entire spare box sounds very fair. Ive got some scrubground round the back of our flat, which is mine, I pay rent on it, and is frequently used/abused/block me in or out by every other bugger in the entire of N E Lincs, apparently! haha, so if i had a double garage then I'd no doubt be doing similar to yourself. SO long as it's all being a positive experience, and you're still heading in the right direction, that's fine. Keep it up. Wish I could offer any kind of technical help, but this is beyond me. I once swapped an AR25 for an AR35 with a mate on his car, but that was Omega-to-Omega. Keep it up is all I can say. Also keep the old bits so one day you can sell it to a Senator/Carlton owner! :) :y
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That's a good plan, and if you're in for the 'long haul' (as I am too so fully empathise with what youre saying) then an entire spare box sounds very fair. Ive got some scrubground round the back of our flat, which is mine, I pay rent on it, and is frequently used/abused/block me in or out by every other bugger in the entire of N E Lincs, apparently! haha, so if i had a double garage then I'd no doubt be doing similar to yourself. SO long as it's all being a positive experience, and you're still heading in the right direction, that's fine. Keep it up. Wish I could offer any kind of technical help, but this is beyond me. I once swapped an AR25 for an AR35 with a mate on his car, but that was Omega-to-Omega. Keep it up is all I can say. Also keep the old bits so one day you can sell it to a Senator/Carlton owner! :) :y
There is yet another option, which is to swap the new internals into the AR25 case, however, as my knowledge of auto transmissions could be scribed on the head of a pin, I would leave such a move to an expert. :y
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Agreed I saw an AR35 internals once. Saw them clunk out of alignment. Bit specialist to reassemble. Best avoided :y
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Well, with the use of a step drill, I have enlarged the hole to 26mm successfully. I now need to remove another 1mm to insert the plug.
Years ago I had the ideal drill mounted tool for this which had 3 small grindstones 2 or 3 mil square, and an inch or two long, mounted horizontally along the mounting spindle, they then expanded under centrifugal force as the drill was started. I used it for dressing the internal bore of pitted master cylinders in the days when repair seal kits were available, and it worked very well. Does anyone know if such tools are still available? If not, any recommendations for a suitable drill mounted tool to dress the bore out, it is about 1" deep. Please don't suggest a round file, I've already spent 2 hours with one, and made no discernible impression. :-\ :y
Ah I've tracked it down, its called a brake cylinder hone. :y
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Yes readily available:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1x-Brake-Cylinder-Hone-For-13-64-mm-Wheel-Tyre-Accessories-/191412923671?hash=item2c91196d17:g:e44AAOSwP~tW4pPw
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Yes readily available:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1x-Brake-Cylinder-Hone-For-13-64-mm-Wheel-Tyre-Accessories-/191412923671?hash=item2c91196d17:g:e44AAOSwP~tW4pPw
Ordered one last night. :y
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/162103337419
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Keep up the good work Chris, I`m looking forward to seeing it in the car :y
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Well, I got the brake hone this morning, which promptly sheared its thread as soon as I switched it on in use! >:( I found a nut to screw the arms back on with, and then the stones wore out within 5 mins of honing! :( Needless to say I am not impressed. However, it took it out sufficiently to allow me, with judicious use of a dremel, and after some technical adjustments to the plug itself ::), to fit the required electrical plug. So the gearbox is now fitted with the Omega electrical harnesses, and having checked the resistance of each thermistor, the new box original is 18.7KΩ, and the Omega thermistor is 17.7KΩ, which is close enough for Government work. ::)
The next job is to actually fit the gearbox, and I approach this with trepidation, as JamesV6CDX did the majority of the last one. However, Joff has lent me a gearbox jack, which should make life easier.
Watch this space. :y
PS, I am going to try to fit it with the filler tube attached, having bought the Senny extension tube Aaron linked to (thanks Aaron), as looking at the space down the side of the TD engine, I think it may be doable, even if the tube requires some technical remodelling. ::) :y
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Excellent, I think the extension tube should fit ok with a little, if any bodging :y
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A little perseverance goes a long way :y
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You may recall I queried the fitting of another selector shaft on the RH side of the new box. Not having realised this before I got the car up on stands, I now find that it is the ONLY selector shaft, the LH one having no threaded portion to take the selector linkage, only the electronic switch. (Yes I know I should have spotted this on the AR25 :-[) It may have been possible to transpose the linkage from left to right with a suitably fabricated final link with the correct angled slot to fit on the RH shaft, but unfortunately it appears impossible to remove the shaft at the gearstick end immediately under the floor in the tunnel, as the shaft is too long to slide out of its mounting in the tunnel with its welded first link attached. I cannot fathom how this was mounted, as there does not appear to be a removable floor plate to access it from above. In any case this is the least preferred option for future proofing.The last option is to swap the selector shaft from the AR25 which is retained, by a rollpin but there is insufficient protruding pin to grip to remove. These were designed to fit and forget.
Bugger!>:(
It looks like plan C, take the box out, fit a new washer, and repair/replace damaged plate(s). Then take the new box and the AR25 to a transmission shop and ask them to transfer the new stuff.
Omega box
URL=http://s952.photobucket.com/user/Tristar-1/media/AR35%20Elect%20connections%20002_zps3dgxfru8.jpg.html](http://i952.photobucket.com/albums/ae10/Tristar-1/AR35%20Elect%20connections%20002_zps3dgxfru8.jpg)[/URL]
Senny box switch only shaft
(http://i952.photobucket.com/albums/ae10/Tristar-1/AR35%20Elect%20connections%20001_zpsouh5fsce.jpg) (http://s952.photobucket.com/user/Tristar-1/media/AR35%20Elect%20connections%20001_zpsouh5fsce.jpg.html)
Senny box RH selector shaft
(http://i952.photobucket.com/albums/ae10/Tristar-1/Senator%20Gearbox%20Dipstick%20007_zpsbtnmm1kg.jpg) (http://s952.photobucket.com/user/Tristar-1/media/Senator%20Gearbox%20Dipstick%20007_zpsbtnmm1kg.jpg.html)
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I did consider whether it was possible to weld a section onto the shaft end to take the selector, but I'm sure the welding experts will tell me that it would not be possible without destroying the shaft seal an inch or so away. :(
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Is there enough meat to cut a thread on the blank shaft :-\
Alternatively, drill and tap the shaft to accept a retaining bolt/washer :-\
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Roll pins are usually driven in to through holes. To take them out you punch them all the way out the other side.
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Is there enough meat to cut a thread on the blank shaft :-\ No
Alternatively, drill and tap the shaft to accept a retaining bolt/washer :-\ I have thought of that, but suspect it is hardened steel. :-\
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Roll pins are usually driven in to through holes. To take them out you punch them all the way out the other side.
True, but these are blind holes. There are plenty of tips on the web, and I will pursue this route initially.
Thanks all, I shall press on. :y
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I did consider whether it was possible to weld a section onto the shaft end to take the selector, but I'm sure the welding experts will tell me that it would not be possible without destroying the shaft seal an inch or so away. :(
Although I have since learned that this seal is inserted externally, so could be removed and a new one fitted later. Any welding experts on who could comment? :-\
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Roll pins are usually driven in to through holes. To take them out you punch them all the way out the other side.
True, but these are blind holes. There are plenty of tips on the web, and I will pursue this route initially.
Thanks all, I shall press on. :y
Annealing sounds the best suggestion. :y
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I doubt its a hardened shaft, if it was me I would be drilling a centre hole, tapping and inserting short length of stud, then fitting a piece of threaded rod to make the extension.
Grind a small flat on the joint between the two pieces and a dab of weld, wont damage the seal then and you don't need much to stop it turning.
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Actually scratch that as you don't need much extension at all.
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I doubt its a hardened shaft, if it was me I would be drilling a centre hole, tapping and inserting short length of stud, then fitting a piece of threaded rod to make the extension.
Grind a small flat on the joint between the two pieces and a dab of weld, wont damage the seal then and you don't need much to stop it turning.
That certainly looks like an option Mark, although I am concerned at the possibility of it unscrewing in use. I've had a closer look at the internals and the shaft goes through the new box, with one half fitted inside, and joined with a rollpin, a larger section in the other, adjacent to the coxcomb plate (serrated changer plate). To replace this with an Omega change shaft, I need to remove the gubbins which has the solenoids attached. This is not difficult to remove, just a few bolts as attach the filter. I would then need to remove the unused portion of the shaft, and block its exit hole. However, my experience of motorbike gearboxes is not good, with ball bearings and springs appearing all over the place when things are dismantled, so I am loath to remove this section without further information as to what is inside it. In the meantime I am removing my AR35 to replace the thrust washer.:-\ :y
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An older Haynes manual, ie from the late '80s for the Senator B may well have the info you seek... certainly the Ones I had from that vintage included things like gearbox internals, suroof workings and all sorts of other deatil that simply isn't present in their newer manuals...
Also have a rummage on ebay.com for 4L30e workshop manuals :y
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An older Haynes manual, ie from the late '80s for the Senator B may well have the info you seek... certainly the Ones I had from that vintage included things like gearbox internals, suroof workings and all sorts of other deatil that simply isn't present in their newer manuals...
Also have a rummage on ebay.com for 4L30e workshop manuals :y
Thks Al. :y
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Not a great deal of info on the sludgepump in the manual but PM me your address and I`ll send you it asap :y
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I have a feeling there was a 4L30E manual floating around.. I'll have a rummage.
Might be worth taking it and the broken one to a transmission repairer and get him to swap the shafts over? Probably wouldn't cost much and they'd be used to all the ball bearings that are liable to drop out. ;)
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This one, Kevin? http://scottj.info/files/isuzu/4l30e.pdf
Or this one? https://www.scribd.com/doc/131331514/4L30E-MANUAL-ATSG-pdf
Or this one? http://ns2.isuzudns.net/4L30E-r.pdf
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I have a feeling there was a 4L30E manual floating around.. I'll have a rummage.
Might be worth taking it and the broken one to a transmission repairer and get him to swap the shafts over? Probably wouldn't cost much and they'd be used to all the ball bearings that are liable to drop out. ;)
Yes I have considered that Kevin, but I'd like to look at the manual first as it looks "relatively" simple with the solenoid gubbins removed. :y
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This one, Kevin? http://scottj.info/files/isuzu/4l30e.pdf
Or this one? https://www.scribd.com/doc/131331514/4L30E-MANUAL-ATSG-pdf
Or this one? http://ns2.isuzudns.net/4L30E-r.pdf
Thanks Aaron, I had already found the first one, but the others look interesting. Especially the last one:y