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Author Topic: Now here's a nice chap.....  (Read 5660 times)

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STEMO

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Now here's a nice chap.....
« on: 05 October 2015, 21:58:01 »

......from the taxpayers alliance. In a speech today he says that some pensioner benefits must be cut right now. Fair enough, but won't that harm future election chances? No. Why? Read on.....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34439965

 ;D
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STEMO

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Re: Now here's a nice chap.....
« Reply #1 on: 05 October 2015, 22:06:00 »

I'm sure you fine fellows will chip in to keep me warm this winter  :(
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Sir Tigger KC

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Re: Now here's a nice chap.....
« Reply #2 on: 05 October 2015, 22:18:26 »

He's got a point though however un PC it is.  :)
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STEMO

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Re: Now here's a nice chap.....
« Reply #3 on: 05 October 2015, 22:22:27 »

He's got a point though however un PC it is.  :)
Who has?
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flyer 0712

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Re: Now here's a nice chap.....
« Reply #4 on: 05 October 2015, 22:39:19 »

When the winter fuel allowance was introduced you received it at the age of 60.....I always thought that was stupid as I was still working and never believed that I or anyone else of that age who was working was entitled to it or deserved to get it as a right when there were/are/ much older people who are retired on a state pension that could do with the money to help them....now being retired 6 years I would not worry or miss it if they decide to stop it....why dont they raise the age of receiving it to around 80 years old as thats when we realy need to keep warm........Why is it that if you move abroad say to spain that you still get the winter fuel allowance,,the goverment say its because it is too difficult to stop it to those who live abroad...And yet if you receive the D.L.A. and then move abroad the goverment stop it without a problem  :-\..Have these morons that run our country ever tried to live on the state pension on its own,,,paying rent...utility bills and food bills..i bet they havent,,,because when i worked the 51 years that i did we were never offered a private pension to pay into,,and that depended on what job you worked at and if you could afford it...The pension payment system like a lot more payment systems (unemployment ) is way out of date and needs to be given a complete revamp,,because i dont care what anybody says about it,,,,,,there are thousands of vunerable pensioners out there (not all )that need that extra money and they not only deserve it but it is there right to receive it for the years they worked to help this country....And to say that the state pension  is,,,,a,benefit,,,is a down right disgrace...it is a hard earned income that we all deserve and have a right to receive....

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Varche

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Re: Now here's a nice chap.....
« Reply #5 on: 06 October 2015, 11:46:16 »

When the winter fuel allowance was introduced you received it at the age of 60.....I always thought that was stupid as I was still working and never believed that I or anyone else of that age who was working was entitled to it or deserved to get it as a right when there were/are/ much older people who are retired on a state pension that could do with the money to help them....now being retired 6 years I would not worry or miss it if they decide to stop it....why dont they raise the age of receiving it to around 80 years old as thats when we realy need to keep warm........Why is it that if you move abroad say to spain that you still get the winter fuel allowance,,the goverment say its because it is too difficult to stop it to those who live abroad...And yet if you receive the D.L.A. and then move abroad the goverment stop it without a problem  :-\..Have these morons that run our country ever tried to live on the state pension on its own,,,paying rent...utility bills and food bills..i bet they havent,,,because when i worked the 51 years that i did we were never offered a private pension to pay into,,and that depended on what job you worked at and if you could afford it...The pension payment system like a lot more payment systems (unemployment ) is way out of date and needs to be given a complete revamp,,because i dont care what anybody says about it,,,,,,there are thousands of vunerable pensioners out there (not all )that need that extra money and they not only deserve it but it is there right to receive it for the years they worked to help this country....And to say that the state pension  is,,,,a,benefit,,,is a down right disgrace...it is a hard earned income that we all deserve and have a right to receive....

As an expat who lives in Spain I can't let that go without comment. I agree with the rest of what you say about vulnerable pensioners.

Firstly Spain is every bit as cold in winter as Britain. In 2005 we experienced long periods where the temp was below 7degrees C minus at night. The coldest I saw on my Omega that winter was minus 10C at 11.a.m. but that night it was minus 14C.

Secondly very few houses here have decent insulation or heating systems for that matter. Central heating is very rare. Most people in our village still heat their homes with open fires. They are hardy folk who also cope with 40 plus summer temps somehow. We have a couple of decent log burners which work quite well and we are hardy too.

Thirdly as members of the UK population that have paid taxes(a lot) during our lives , why shouldn't we get the same benefits as say pensioners who choose to live in the UK? What difference does it make where you choose to see out your days? Sometimes I think the politics of envy are at play.

Fourthly , it is a poor state of affairs that a country has to give its pensioners handouts to keep alive after a lifetime of work. We have four sets of UK relatives who struggle every winter to keep warm enough. It is a fact that the UK state pension is the worst in Europe despite Britain being one of , if not the richest country in the EU. 

Finally and most importantly , you are behind the times. The government already did some very clever average calculations for foreign countries where expats might live and by including hotter dependencies, a lot do not qualify for the winter fuel allowance. So should I manage to ever become a state pensioner I will never get that benefit.

It is heading towards winter, if you want you could come out and experience our lovely warm winters. I will show you where the logs are. Then you can report back to HMG that maybe they have got it wrong ;D
 
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ted_one

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Re: Now here's a nice chap.....
« Reply #6 on: 06 October 2015, 12:13:12 »

Politicians =Just a bunch of bent wonkers!! all two faced liars who make sure that their own bank balances stay well padded out by pleading poverty and making the rest of us suffer to cover their inept running of this country,just scum as far as I'm concerned.....do what they do,look after number one first and do it by any means available...sort of like the way pikeys do ::)
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Terbs

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Re: Now here's a nice chap.....
« Reply #7 on: 06 October 2015, 13:48:36 »

Politicians =Just a bunch of bent wonkers!! all two faced liars who make sure that their own bank balances stay well padded out by pleading poverty and making the rest of us suffer to cover their inept running of this country,just scum as far as I'm concerned.....do what they do,look after number one first and do it by any means available...sort of like the way pikeys do ::)

Big +1 :y
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Terbs

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Re: Now here's a nice chap.....
« Reply #8 on: 06 October 2015, 13:51:35 »

What I don't understand, is why they expect pensioners to live on £100 or so per week, yet they say 'a living wage' is about three to four times that amount ???
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STEMO

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Re: Now here's a nice chap.....
« Reply #9 on: 06 October 2015, 14:12:10 »

What I don't understand, is why they expect pensioners to live on £100 or so per week, yet they say 'a living wage' is about three to four times that amount ???
Old age pension is about £153 a week from next year, and rises by either CPI or 2%, whichever is higher, each year thereafter. Any one who is on less, and is in need, can get pension credit.
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Terbs

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Re: Now here's a nice chap.....
« Reply #10 on: 06 October 2015, 14:18:37 »

Is that the initial pension, then we get (or I do) secondary pension and graduated on top of that ???
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STEMO

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Re: Now here's a nice chap.....
« Reply #11 on: 06 October 2015, 14:25:17 »

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Terbs

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Re: Now here's a nice chap.....
« Reply #12 on: 06 October 2015, 14:51:38 »

Thanks, mate. Looks like no change there, then. :(
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ted_one

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Re: Now here's a nice chap.....
« Reply #13 on: 06 October 2015, 15:28:24 »

The thing that bothers me a bit about younger people in general,is that they think none of this will affect them because like it or not it WILL! because as sure as eggs is eggs, you're gonna get old  and then it will be to late to do any thing about it....think they call it rose coloured glasses : 8):)I like Terbs and quite a few others on here have attained the right to collect around £600 pounds a month by working all my life and paying into the system, which equates to 52 years of grafting to date and taking other peoples crap...i.e that's successive goverments and tight assed bosses!also it seems that a lot of people begrudge us that right.I am still doing some casual work and of course I'm still paying in to the system,so in a way I'm financing my state pension ::) Oh! and by the way it's my 67th nail in my coffin today and none of you tight bastids have given me my presents yet :)
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ted_one

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Re: Now here's a nice chap.....
« Reply #14 on: 06 October 2015, 15:51:13 »

Just another point.....my wife is one of the people who won't get her state pension until she's 66,and she's still in her fifties and so will be paying into the system until then.Again worked all her life and had no children, so no maternity leave taken ,also takes care of her 89year old mum who lives with us so no demands or care costs involved there. We have always made our way through our working lives and never claimed a penny from the state, and I am aware that we are not unique in that sense but it does get right up my nose when some slime ball politician thinks he's come up with another way of moving the goal posts >:( :) HE.. won't be cold this winter because ...we will be indirectly paying to keep his lazy lard arse warm the ttwwaatt!
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STEMO

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Re: Now here's a nice chap.....
« Reply #15 on: 06 October 2015, 15:51:52 »

Happy birthday you moany old git  ;D
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Terbs

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Re: Now here's a nice chap.....
« Reply #16 on: 06 October 2015, 15:56:47 »

No bugger wished me happy birthday either, Ken, back in August..... >:(
We are has beens, chuck outs, on the scrap heap... does not matter all our hard work gave most of these people of today a secure job.
They will all get their come-uppence at a later date ;D ;D ;D
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Varche

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Re: Now here's a nice chap.....
« Reply #17 on: 06 October 2015, 16:03:15 »

nitro. I have your exquisite cake here but cannot get to the Post Office to send it. Think of it as a virtual cake. Happy Birthday too.

Have you made sure you are claiming any due allowances for the care of the MIL? The one that springs to mind is attendance allowance.
https://www.gov.uk/attendance-allowance/how-to-claim
I think it is only right and proper that you claim whatever you can as it is an onerous task and one that saves the state a fortune.If you aren't it is time to claim a penny from the state but don't emigrate with her as that is another benefit you then can't claim.
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ted_one

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Re: Now here's a nice chap.....
« Reply #18 on: 06 October 2015, 16:27:07 »

Many thanks for the cake,it will be the first cake that I won't put on any weight when I eat it. :y As to your advice on the attendance allowance,it's much appreciated, but because of our joint income there wouldn't be much point in getting involved in the process which undoubtedly will seek to frustrate us,and as my wife is a nurse practioner we are pretty much in control of the day to day routine, as the MIL lives in an annexe and just needs a bit of help here and there at the moment. :y
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05omegav6

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Re: Now here's a nice chap.....
« Reply #19 on: 06 October 2015, 16:36:42 »

Happy birthday you moany old git  ;D
Succinct as ever, but a solid sentiment...

Happy Birthday Ken :y
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ted_one

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Re: Now here's a nice chap.....
« Reply #20 on: 06 October 2015, 16:40:51 »

Also many thanks to STEMO for his kind birthday wishes  :P....the longer I live more bitter I'm becoming :o And Terbs  I'll buy you a birthday drink at Friday nights get together to make amends :y
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ted_one

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Re: Now here's a nice chap.....
« Reply #21 on: 06 October 2015, 16:44:15 »

Cheers Al. :y
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Field Marshal Dr. Opti

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Re: Now here's a nice chap.....
« Reply #22 on: 06 October 2015, 16:49:46 »

Free television licence.....winter fuel payments......free prescriptions......free eye tests...etc...etc...are all over and above what people who have worked all their lives are entitled to. They are extra benefits.

I'm happy for the genuinely needy to have these extra perks. :y

However, such benefits are not linked to income and I'm very much against wealthy pensioners being given 'freebies' simply because they have reached a certain age. :-\

We have some piss poor pensioners in this country so let's help them.

We also have a large proportion of financially well off pensioners who can't believe their luck that the government are happy to add to their impressive wealth. :-\
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STEMO

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Re: Now here's a nice chap.....
« Reply #23 on: 06 October 2015, 16:56:23 »

Free television licence.....winter fuel payments......free prescriptions......free eye tests...etc...etc...are all over and above what people who have worked all their lives are entitled to. They are extra benefits.

I'm happy for the genuinely needy to have these extra perks. :y

However, such benefits are not linked to income and I'm very much against wealthy pensioners being given 'freebies' simply because they have reached a certain age. :-\

We have some piss poor pensioners in this country so let's help them.

We also have a large proportion of financially well off pensioners who can't believe their luck that the government are happy to add to their impressive wealth. :-\
Glad to hear that you'll refuse such embellishments and donate it all to charity. :y
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Field Marshal Dr. Opti

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Re: Now here's a nice chap.....
« Reply #24 on: 06 October 2015, 16:59:39 »

Free television licence.....winter fuel payments......free prescriptions......free eye tests...etc...etc...are all over and above what people who have worked all their lives are entitled to. They are extra benefits.

I'm happy for the genuinely needy to have these extra perks. :y

However, such benefits are not linked to income and I'm very much against wealthy pensioners being given 'freebies' simply because they have reached a certain age. :-\

We have some piss poor pensioners in this country so let's help them.

We also have a large proportion of financially well off pensioners who can't believe their luck that the government are happy to add to their impressive wealth. :-\
Glad to hear that you'll refuse such embellishments and donate it all to charity. :y

Indeed I would should I be a wealthy old fart.
Think of me as one of the deserving poor. :P
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STEMO

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Re: Now here's a nice chap.....
« Reply #25 on: 06 October 2015, 17:01:27 »

Incidentally, I'll be 63 next year and will be able to claim my winter fuel allowance. You have to claim it, it's not automatic.
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ted_one

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Re: Now here's a nice chap.....
« Reply #26 on: 06 October 2015, 17:33:05 »

Can't really agree with those sentiments....noble as they may be, I look at it with a different slant, and  that's due the madness of the EU, if it's good and works for outsiders from other countries, then I'm having it as well....selfish? possibly, but take a trip to my health centre any day or any NHS healthcare facilities and see how many non British subjects are taking advantage of our system and that is only one instance.
In all honesty we are all aware that it extends throughout our social services etc and in many cases it's totally abused, so it's a big yes to the even playing field you are suggesting,but it's not going to happen as long as Mrs Hitler carries on pushing us around and wheeling more and more people in the direction of good old Blighty ::) It may be a cliché,but charity does begin at home and I was born here in 1948(a good year for all of us)  and paid into a system that was intended to take care of the indigenous population,but now???
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STEMO

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Re: Now here's a nice chap.....
« Reply #27 on: 06 October 2015, 17:40:14 »

There are always going to be anomalies. The vast majority of pensioners deserve everything they can get, and I'm pretty sure that there's aren't that many 'rich' pensioners although, of course, rich is subjective.
Let's take child benefit. We lost ours cause wifey earns more than 50K, but a couple, both earning 40K were allowed to keep theirs.

I am in agreement with Nitro, if you've earned it, claim it.
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flyer 0712

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Re: Now here's a nice chap.....
« Reply #28 on: 06 October 2015, 17:47:14 »

Varche...i will refrain from carrying your logs in for your fire while you sit there with feet up and laughing at me working up a sweat  lol.......What my argument is..if thats what we call it....is that anyone who moves abroad still gets the winter fuel allowance...but if you are a disabled person receiving d.l.a....i believe you loose it,,so how can they justify carrying  on paying one benefit..winter fuel allowance but not the d.l.a.,,,,it beats me    how they come up with these ides..Yes most of us have worked hard and deserve our pensions and because the pension isnt that great some deserve pension credit as well.....but how dare they call our pension a benefit....it is not as we all worked hard for that and it is our right to receive our pension. :y
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Re: Now here's a nice chap.....
« Reply #29 on: 06 October 2015, 17:48:03 »

There are always going to be anomalies. The vast majority of pensioners deserve everything they can get, and I'm pretty sure that there's aren't that many 'rich' pensioners although, of course, rich is subjective.
Let's take child benefit. We lost ours cause wifey earns more than 50K, but a couple, both earning 40K were allowed to keep theirs.

I am in agreement with Nitro, if you've earned it, claim it.

Probably not in Wakefield or Barnsley but spread around the country the numbers are significant.
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flyer 0712

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Re: Now here's a nice chap.....
« Reply #30 on: 06 October 2015, 17:50:50 »

stemo....you are so right....who in their right minds made up that 50k structure....as you say .one person earning over 50k looses it but your neighbours who live together earning 49k each per year still can claim it...madness... ???
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Re: Now here's a nice chap.....
« Reply #31 on: 06 October 2015, 17:55:24 »

I expect Lord Opti needs his Winter Fuel Allowance to warm up his Welsh castle.  :y

Glad of the double rate that he's eligible for as well I should think!  :)
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STEMO

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Re: Now here's a nice chap.....
« Reply #32 on: 06 October 2015, 18:03:21 »

There are always going to be anomalies. The vast majority of pensioners deserve everything they can get, and I'm pretty sure that there's aren't that many 'rich' pensioners although, of course, rich is subjective.
Let's take child benefit. We lost ours cause wifey earns more than 50K, but a couple, both earning 40K were allowed to keep theirs.

I am in agreement with Nitro, if you've earned it, claim it.

Probably not in Wakefield or Barnsley but spread around the country the numbers are significant.
As I say, subjective, and not very many when taken as a percentage I'll wager.
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Re: Now here's a nice chap.....
« Reply #33 on: 06 October 2015, 18:11:49 »

Just to correct a common misunderstanding about why the State Pension is deemed a "benefit" and not a "true" pension ...

If you pay into a pension fund, whether that is at work or a private pension, that fund is invested on your behalf and the "pot" grows. When you draw your pension you draw from that pot. ....the bigger the pot the more you get.... quite a simple concept.

The State Pension does NOT work that way .. there is no "pot" of invested money .. all your National Insurance and Income Tax contributions over the years have all been spent .. every year .. especially as successive governments have run a budget deficit.

All State Pension payments/social security costs/pension credits etc etc .. in fact EVERY SINGLE PENNY THE GOVERNMENT SPENDS comes from this years taxes and borrowings.

Thus the size of the State Pension and any increases are not linked to the size or profitability of the non-existent pot .. but are decreed by Government, and paid for by present taxpayers, so it cannot, correctly, be called a pension. It is paid to pensioners because they "benefit" from the fact that the present day work force are paying taxes, without them there would be no government income, and that is half the problem .. with more and more elderly folk claiming the state pension, there are simply not enough folk in work to cover the cost. It was once quoted (way back in 1983 when I did my Commerce course) that it then took 9 workers to pay for 1 pensioner ... I've no idea what the required ratio is now.

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Migv6 le Frog Fan

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Re: Now here's a nice chap.....
« Reply #34 on: 06 October 2015, 18:38:31 »

I don't believe any benefits should be universal. The welfare state was intended for those in genuine need & hardship. Successive governments have perverted it into a means of social engineering, pseudo Marxist redistribution of wealth, and most of all, a means of buying votes with other peoples money.
All benefits should be means tested and go to those who are in need of food, shelter & warmth. Then people who earn could have a chance of actually keeping more than half of their own earnings.
Corbyns long time economic adviser (goes by the name of Murphy I think) believes that employers shouldn't pay wages to employees, but should pay it all to the state. Then the state should redistribute it as it deems fit.
At least hes honest I suppose. Gordon Brown obviously believed the same thing and was well on the way to taking us there during his time of wrecking the British economy.
If we can break way from the sense of entitlement (and little sense of responsibility) which has infested this country, we might be able to have a prosperous country to be proud of again.
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STEMO

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Re: Now here's a nice chap.....
« Reply #35 on: 06 October 2015, 18:41:00 »

Means testing costs money...a lot of it. That was the excuse used over child benefit.
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Re: Now here's a nice chap.....
« Reply #36 on: 06 October 2015, 18:56:27 »

You could always ask people who don't need the benefit(s) they receive to give them back. Pete Waterman tried to do that but amazingly there isn't a mechanism.
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Re: Now here's a nice chap.....
« Reply #37 on: 06 October 2015, 19:09:28 »

So have a few of the richer people tried to give it back but there is no provision for that....maybe means tested would be beneficial. :-\
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STEMO

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Re: Now here's a nice chap.....
« Reply #38 on: 06 October 2015, 19:26:22 »

So have a few of the richer people tried to give it back but there is no provision for that....maybe means tested would be beneficial. :-\
Means testing also opens another HUGE can of worms:

If I work hard all my life and save a nice few bob for my retirement, I'll be comfortable in my old age.

No, you won't because we're going to means test the old age pension and, if you've got a few bob, you won't get it.

So I'd be better saving nowt and getting all the benefits?

Errrr......yeah
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Re: Now here's a nice chap.....
« Reply #39 on: 06 October 2015, 20:02:42 »

Or alternatively............."I didnt work that hard, I spent what I earned and have no savings, what happens now ?"

" As we are a civilised country, we will provide you with the following.
1. Basic accommodation
2 £25 vouchers per week for Tesco Asda etc.
3. £100 p.a. vouchers for clothes at Tesco Asda etc.
4. £15 per week vouchers for energy with the cheapest provider.....etc. "
Problem sorted. Just indefinitely intern all the do gooder, lefty whingers when they start whining and wringing their hands. Job done.  :)
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STEMO

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Re: Now here's a nice chap.....
« Reply #40 on: 06 October 2015, 20:20:29 »

Or alternatively............."I didnt work that hard, I spent what I earned and have no savings, what happens now ?"

" As we are a civilised country, we will provide you with the following.
1. Basic accommodation
2 £25 vouchers per week for Tesco Asda etc.
3. £100 p.a. vouchers for clothes at Tesco Asda etc.
4. £15 per week vouchers for energy with the cheapest provider.....etc. "
Problem sorted. Just indefinitely intern all the do gooder, lefty whingers when they start whining and wringing their hands. Job done.  :)
Yeah.......big fat chance.  ;D
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