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Author Topic: Question for Kevin, or anyone else who cares!  (Read 3846 times)

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ClarCE

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Question for Kevin, or anyone else who cares!
« on: 30 April 2007, 14:13:14 »

If I was going to be naughty, and bearing in mind I am a complete new person to all this,  how does this kit car manufacturer look?

It seems very cheap - its not the ones who've gone bust is it?!

I was looking at the middle one, the 2B: here
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meegaveesix

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Re: Question for Kevin, or anyone else who cares!
« Reply #1 on: 30 April 2007, 14:18:18 »

My Ex's dad built one of those Chris - with a 2 litre sierra engine.  Their not a bad kit, but from memory you have to go and collect (box van required with help to lift the chassis).  Lots of softening of edges and little adjustmetns to be made to the sheet steel as its just laser cut, you have to fabricate all the bends etc for it - oh and the instruction videos they supply are pretty useless.

His kit car lives on the Moors estate in Thatcham.
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ClarCE

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Re: Question for Kevin, or anyone else who cares!
« Reply #2 on: 30 April 2007, 14:53:21 »

Quote
My Ex's dad built one of those Chris - with a 2 litre sierra engine.  Their not a bad kit, but from memory you have to go and collect (box van required with help to lift the chassis).  Lots of softening of edges and little adjustmetns to be made to the sheet steel as its just laser cut, you have to fabricate all the bends etc for it - oh and the instruction videos they supply are pretty useless.

His kit car lives on the Moors estate in Thatcham.

Cheers for that, what a stroke of luck that someone on here has actually seen this!

I might take a drive over that way then and have a snoop about..
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Kevin Wood

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Re: Question for Kevin, or anyone else who cares!
« Reply #3 on: 30 April 2007, 15:53:40 »

I think you get what you pay for in general. The more expensive kits come pretty well finished meaning you don't have to do that much work to tidy up from the manufacturing process, you just have to bolt it together into a car.

Cheaper kits that I have seen don't come as well finished or as accurately made, so you might find yourself tidying up edges and even trimming areas where the panels don't fit.

You also need to think about what you want at the end and what type of build you want to embark upon.

Some kits are based on a single donor car, the idea being to break a car and use as many parts from that car as possible. The RH is one of them. This seems like a good idea at first until you consider the engine you'll end up with. You can do a lot better than a Pinto or CVH these days, but this will be the choice you have if you base it on a sierra. Other parts from the single donor won't be ideal, but the kit will have been compromised to use them. Of course you can use parts from other cars, but as you deviate from the single donor costs and time will be added.

Consider also if you'll want to refurbish every part from a donor and use it. To do so saves money but will take much more time. If you see yourself buying refurbished parts and otherwise deviating from the single donor path, you may as well throw away all the compromises that this involves and build something that draws on the best parts from several donors.

Consider also the use it will get. Do you want something to polish and display on concours? Something to use mainly on the road as something "a bit different" to drive on sunny days? Or, do you want a track day weapon?

If I were doing it again?

For a track day car I'd probably go for a bike engined seven style car or a powerful tuned 4 pot (Ford Duratec / VX C20XE / 1.6 Ecotec). I'd maybe venture towards an Audi 1.8T.

For a road car I'd seriously consider Westfield's single donor kit based on an MX-5 (Donor car with a more lively engine, lightweight parts throughout and fun to drive in the first place). Either that or I'd use a Ford Sigma engine (little Zetec from the Fiesta / Puma, seriously light and loves to rev). Or I might consider trying to shoehorn an X32SE into one for a bit more of a cruiser ;-)

For a polisher I'd go for something with a bit more bodywork to it than a Lotus 7 style car. Maybe a Cobra or Healey 3000 replica. It'd rude not to have a V8 in a Cobra.

For a money no object all rounder have a google for the Ultima... I was speaking to someone at Le Mans who's not allowed to go to Belgium any more thanks to one of these. He did try (and succeed) to run for the border after getting clocked a little over the limit (205 MPH).

The main thing is to see the cars in the flesh and decide what you think. Look at a RH against a Caterham and you'll see where the compromises have been made. It's not a slim, svelte little car, it's got a bit more lardy to accommodate the Sierra running gear underneath unmodified, whereas the Caterham uses mostly bespoke suspension parts. There are other manufacturers who are at various points between these two extremes.

Most manufacturers will give to a factory tour, talk about their kits and give you a test drive in a demonstrator. Westfield will happily throw you the keys to a demonstrator and let you play for half an hour or so. Others prefer to take you out and scare you.

It's a shame you're not around at the weekend because at a kit car show you will find so many shapes and sizes of car it'll really open your mind.

Cheers,

Kevin

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omegaV6CD

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Re: Question for Kevin, or anyone else who cares!
« Reply #4 on: 30 April 2007, 22:06:16 »

Quote
If I was going to be naughty, and bearing in mind I am a complete new person to all this,  how does this kit car manufacturer look?

It seems very cheap - its not the ones who've gone bust is it?!

I was looking at the middle one, the 2B: here

A kit car can be as good as the person that builds it. You can always also use your judgement in order to decide if bits need upgrading or not. I would not really bother with a kit car that has live axle.
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Kevin Wood

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theolodian

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Re: Question for Kevin, or anyone else who cares!
« Reply #6 on: 30 April 2007, 22:42:06 »

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I'd maybe venture towards an Audi 1.8T.
So 350-400hp would be enough?  :-? ;D
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Kevin Wood

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Re: Question for Kevin, or anyone else who cares!
« Reply #7 on: 30 April 2007, 23:00:40 »

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So 350-400hp would be enough?

Can you ever have enough?  ;)

If I were going for more power I think a turbo would probably be the way to go.

A mate of mine built a Dax Rush with a Cossie turbo in it. In theory it had 270 BHP but that's from a Cosworth chip vendor so take it with a pinch of salt. It was running about 1 bar of boost IIRC. You could boot it out of a corner in 5th and just wait for the turbo to suck you up the straight to the next corner or you could drop it into 2nd, thrash it to 7k in each gear and embarass the bikes. ;-) Either way it loved it.

It did 35 MPG on a run and was absolutely bullet proof.

I think my Zetec is OK for the moment though.

Kevin
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theolodian

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Re: Question for Kevin, or anyone else who cares!
« Reply #8 on: 30 April 2007, 23:11:23 »

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If I were going for more power I think a turbo would probably be the way to go.
Uh, yep!

Quote
A mate of mine built a Dax Rush with a Cossie turbo in it. In theory it had 270 BHP but that's from a Cosworth chip vendor so take it with a pinch of salt. It was running about 1 bar of boost IIRC.
That's not bad, especially in such a small car.  But referring to the statement about too much power, life doesn't start until about 1.8bar (yes, on top of atmospheric).  ;)
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Kevin Wood

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Re: Question for Kevin, or anyone else who cares!
« Reply #9 on: 01 May 2007, 09:53:33 »

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life doesn't start until about 1.8bar

Boost's not everything though. The more boost you NEED the more heat you're going to have to get rid of, the more lag you've got, etc. I would still pay attention to porting the head nicely and ensuring the induction system works well.

I know a guy with a Cossie Westfield. He bought it running 300+ BHP at 2 bar or so IIRC. Had been tuned by just turning up the boost and chipping. It felt very quick but the power all came in with a bang at about 3,000 rpm with loads of overboost. A tuning package designed to appeal to the MAX Power brigade.

He ported the head, fabricated a better inlet plenum, fitted a smaller Turbo, a decent charge cooler, put a proper mappable ECU with boost control on it and mapped it on a rolling road. It now makes more power than it did before at just over 1 BAR and because it doesn't have to wind itself up to silly bost levels, it's much more responsive and doesn't bite (important in a Westfield!).

Kevin
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ClarCE

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Re: Question for Kevin, or anyone else who cares!
« Reply #10 on: 01 May 2007, 10:02:20 »

Thanks very much for all the replies, Kevin - I do quite like the look of the Westfield, based on MX-5 doner car conversion, it seems very good and not overpriced either..

I've read through the websites of those links you sent, lots of invaluable info there, so cheers for that too! Will help me make a much more informed decision.

At the moment, I'm not set against doing the Pinto / Sierra - RH - It'll come down I expect to budget, my time (you know what she's like - I upped the anti last night by telling her it would be happening sooner rather than later, i.e. not in 6 years time as she was hoping!!!!)

In answer to your other question, it would be a fun car, and a sunny day fun car at that - it would never be used as a daily grind..

I also don't want to run before I can walk by taking on something I'm going to get stuck on and unable to complete on my own with my limited experience.  I am also not going to be going for F1 performance, i.e turbos etc, etc - I think a standard 2.0L should do me fine tbh..

I know that with Fords I know roughly where I am, after the days of my XR3i's and XR2's (yeah, I know :P) but thats about the only thing that could sway me from a jap engined MX..

It is a difficult one!!

Cheers,

Chris.
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Kevin Wood

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Re: Question for Kevin, or anyone else who cares!
« Reply #11 on: 01 May 2007, 10:18:58 »

If it's between the RH and the Westfield MX-5 SDV I'd go for the Westfield every day.  I'm trying not to be biased here but if the prices are in the same ball park I think you'll find that the difference in quality is quite marked. Quality of the kit has a big influence on ease of build too.

However, I'll have a snoop at the RH stand this weekend and see what they're like.

You need to blag a test drive in the MX-5 based kit! Then you'll really be hooked.

Oh, and I know what you're saying regarding Ford stuff. TBH, though, Emma has had an MX-5 for 4 or 5 years & 80,000 miles and I do the servicing on it. I wouldn't know how easy it is to work on because nothing has ever caused trouble. I change the oil & filter, the air filter, the coolant and the plugs and nothing else has ever needed touching.

Kevin
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Martin_1962

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Re: Question for Kevin, or anyone else who cares!
« Reply #12 on: 01 May 2007, 10:43:59 »

The engine which appeals to me in a Westfield is the V8
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Martin_1962

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Re: Question for Kevin, or anyone else who cares!
« Reply #13 on: 01 May 2007, 10:45:11 »

I contemplated building one about 8 years ago - but finances were against me. I had researched and found out I could use the Sunbeam as a donor.
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Kevin Wood

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Re: Question for Kevin, or anyone else who cares!
« Reply #14 on: 01 May 2007, 10:58:42 »

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The engine which appeals to me in a Westfield is the V8

They're very popular at the moment. I'm not 100% sure. They sound tremendous but they're also fairly heavy (although the Rover V8 isn't much worse than something like a Pinto), and I think that takes the edge off the handling. They also need to be driven carefully, in comparison to a 4 pot with similar power, because there's enough torque to spin the back wheels from idle in most of the gears.

They're also lazy engines that don't really like revs, and I'm not sure that suits a little sports car.

I must admit, whilst I've not got the tape measure out yet, I've been idly wondering if a GM V6 will fit in there. That might be a good compromise between the two. Anyone know what an X30XE weighs?

Kevin
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