Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: Viral_Jim on 11 January 2017, 15:59:21
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So,
After 4 months and 4350 miles, my M140i has left me on the back of a low loader bound for the supplying dealer. The problem: complete and total failure of all the electrics, all at the same time. :o.
I was driving along quite happily when suddenly, no power, no lights, now power steering. I even lost Ken Bruce! I was left at the side of the road, unable to proceed, or even turn on my hazard lights. Then, after a few minutes, all was well again. Just as if it had never happened. Thankfully I had my phone and was able to video the scene, otherwise I'd be tempted to think I was going off my rocker. :D
To say I'm cheesed off is a gross understatement. If I can't get a good explanation from the dealer and a quick repair, they can keep the bloody thing!
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Did you try to use the indicators? (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26795734/Smilies/allrun.gif)
Not sure what's more odd - that it happened, or that it "fixed itself". :-\
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Did you try to use the indicators? [img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26795734/Smilies/allrun.gif[/img
That must have been it! Probably triggered he anti-theft module. Knowing that no real BMW owner would ever touch them! ;D
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I think BMW gets their good quality reputation just because they are German. But they are hardly any better than Opel. The fact they charge more money for their cars helps the value perception. But I know so many people with BMW headaches. The current top German manufacturer for quality is Volkswagen (VW, Audi, Porsche etc). Even Mercedes although much better than a few years ago still riding their past a little when it comes to quality IMO.
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You have to remember, one of the primary reasons BMW bought Rover in the 90s was because they wanted their mass production experience.
So, averagely designed cars with shoddy manufacture. 'nuf said.
On the upside, they are RWD.
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I think BMW gets their good quality reputation just because they are German. But they are hardly any better than Opel. The fact they charge more money for their cars helps the value perception. But I know so many people with BMW headaches. The current top German manufacturer for quality is Volkswagen (VW, Audi, Porsche etc). Even Mercedes although much better than a few years ago still riding their past a little when it comes to quality IMO.
The E39 is much better built than the Omega ime.
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I think BMW gets their good quality reputation just because they are German. But they are hardly any better than Opel. The fact they charge more money for their cars helps the value perception. But I know so many people with BMW headaches. The current top German manufacturer for quality is Volkswagen (VW, Audi, Porsche etc). Even Mercedes although much better than a few years ago still riding their past a little when it comes to quality IMO.
The E39 is much better built than the Omega ime.
By better built you must mean more luxurious as in better finished. If so, and if we are speaking of a higher trim like a 540i or M5 then yes. It's better finished. As far a built quality, not really.
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Nope, mines an SE with blue cloth... But from various bits that I have had cause to do on it... yes really. For example, every opening at the front of the car is designed to put air either through the radiator or to the brakes... Even the headlight trim is sealed independently of the headlight and bumper.
The 540 gains nothing except leather, more toys and a V8.
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Nope, mines an SE with blue cloth... But from various bits that I have had cause to do on it... yes really. For example, every opening at the front of the car is designed to put air either through the radiator or to the brakes... Even the headlight trim is sealed independently of the headlight and bumper.
The 540 gains nothing except leather, more toys and a V8.
Sure they are well designed. I mean in terms of durability and reliability. Not really better than Opel. ;)
But design is a very relative thing and so are features. You mention functional air dams. There are many expensive and luxury cars with stick on fake air intakes for example. It's relative. And as you know, Opel has beaten BMW and even Mercedes to the punch several times, by being the first to market with something.
This is not what I'm talking. I'm saying that the idea that BMW is more reliable than an Opel or will last longer is totally misguided. They are not really better. Just more expensive.
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So,
After 4 months and 4350 miles, my M140i has left me on the back of a low loader bound for the supplying dealer. The problem: complete and total failure of all the electrics, all at the same time. :o.
I was driving along quite happily when suddenly, no power, no lights, now power steering. I even lost Ken Bruce! I was left at the side of the road, unable to proceed, or even turn on my hazard lights. Then, after a few minutes, all was well again. Just as if it had never happened. Thankfully I had my phone and was able to video the scene, otherwise I'd be tempted to think I was going off my rocker. :D
To say I'm cheesed off is a gross understatement. If I can't get a good explanation from the dealer and a quick repair, they can keep the bloody thing!
Sorry to hear this, Jimmy. :-\
Car faults that have a touch of 'witchcraft' about them are the type that worry people most........usually because they can happen at the most inappropriate times.
I hope a good solid explanation is found rather than the fault remaining a mystery.
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I think BMW gets their good quality reputation just because they are German. But they are hardly any better than Opel. The fact they charge more money for their cars helps the value perception. But I know so many people with BMW headaches. The current top German manufacturer for quality is Volkswagen (VW, Audi, Porsche etc). Even Mercedes although much better than a few years ago still riding their past a little when it comes to quality IMO.
The E39 is much better built than the Omega ime.
I agree although I think my old W124 Merc was better again
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I think BMW gets their good quality reputation just because they are German. But they are hardly any better than Opel. The fact they charge more money for their cars helps the value perception. But I know so many people with BMW headaches. The current top German manufacturer for quality is Volkswagen (VW, Audi, Porsche etc). Even Mercedes although much better than a few years ago still riding their past a little when it comes to quality IMO.
The E39 is much better built than the Omega ime.
I agree although I think my old W124 Merc was better again
100% :y
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Sorry to hear this, Jimmy. :-\
Car faults that have a touch of 'witchcraft' about them are the type that worry people most........usually because they can happen at the most inappropriate times.
I hope a good solid explanation is found rather than the fault remaining a mystery.
Cheers Doc!
Thankfully consumer law is on my side here, as it's less than 6 months old, if the dealer can't fix it at the first time of asking I can hand it back to them for a refund. Which in all honesty I will probably do.
I travel too many miles on motorways late at night and early in the morning to have it playing on my mind. As it was the car failed on a road with good visibility and in daylight on a sunny day. Had it happened in the dark in the outside lane of the M6, the outcome could well have been very different. I couldn't even put the hazards on to warn other motorists.
In many respects I was rather fortunate today. :y
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The dealer probably won't be able to replicate the fault, so will just give it back to you and say it was a lose battery terminal or some such twaddle.
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They may well try stemo. Thankfully I've been down this road before with other intermittent faults (not on this car I hasten to add) so took some video on my fone to prove that it actually happened. But you're right I'm expecting some BS excuse. Although the chap from BMW Assistance did have me waggle a number of relevant wires in the boot.
Woe betide them if they hand it back to me "fixed" and it happens again. I may have to wind one down on the service manager's desk.
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The dealer probably won't be able to replicate the fault, so will just give it back to you and say it was a lose battery terminal or some such twaddle.
Yes we`ve given her a jolly good 250 mile workout & can`t help at all really.
Our service reception director has done his usual trick & used all your fuel up & the warning light is glowing brightly ;D The remains of his lunch are trodden in nicely with his discarded fag butts :P
Any problems just pop her back & we`ll really rag the guts out off her next time for you.
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... I may have to wind one down on the service manager's desk....
;D ;D ;D ;D Not heard it put quite like that before.
Since when did consumer law in the UK allow you to return cars within 6months? Thought it was only american that had the "lemon law"?
I knew someone with a Mercedes ML that kept doing exactly the same thing on one particular roundabout. Don't think they ever did find out why.
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Since the Consimer Rights Act 2015 :y- this affects all purchases (including new & used cars) made by consumers on or after 01/10/15. It's a powerful piece of legislation and your rights depend on the length of time between the purchase date and the fault manifesting.
If it's less than 1 month, you may reject the goods out of hand if they develop a fault and receive a full refund. If >1 month but <6 months you must give the supplier one opportunity to repair or replace the goods (supplier's choice as to which). If this is unsuccessful then you may reject the goods for a full refund. Outside of 6months you have to prove the fault was present at the purchase date.
The only exception to the full refund rule is cars, where the dealer may make a reasonable deduction for the enjoyment an owner has had from the car. What's reasonable? Ultimately you negotiate with them or let the courts decide.
I used the above legislation to get our fridge replaced just before Christmas when it went wrong for a second time following a repair by Currys/Knowhow/whatever they're called today so it was very fresh in my mind. ;D
If I do have to push The dealer for rejection then I fully expect it to be a long drawn out affair which will cost me dearly. However I simply cannot have a car that I can't rely on, particularly when I use it 30+ times a year to get me to the airport for work flights and my office is a 180mile round trip on the motorway. >:(
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Since the Consimer Rights Act 2015 :y- this affects all purchases (including new & used cars) made by consumers on or after 01/10/15. It's a powerful piece of legislation and your rights depend on the length of time between the purchase date and the fault manifesting.
If it's less than 1 month, you may reject the goods out of hand if they develop a fault and receive a full refund. If >1 month but <6 months you must give the supplier one opportunity to repair or replace the goods (supplier's choice as to which). If this is unsuccessful then you may reject the goods for a full refund. Outside of 6months you have to prove the fault was present at the purchase date.
The only exception to the full refund rule is cars, where the dealer may make a reasonable deduction for the enjoyment an owner has had from the car. What's reasonable? Ultimately you negotiate with them or let the courts decide.
I used the above legislation to get our fridge replaced just before Christmas when it went wrong for a second time following a repair by Currys/Knowhow/whatever they're called today so it was very fresh in my mind. ;D
If I do have to push The dealer for rejection then I fully expect it to be a long drawn out affair which will cost me dearly. However I simply cannot have a car that I can't rely on, particularly when I use it 30+ times a year to get me to the airport for work flights and my office is a 180mile round trip on the motorway. >:(
Good to know. :y
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Sorry to hear this, is there any update from the dealer?
I'll let me car share buddy know, he has a M235i on a 65 Plate, so very similar workings. My lift share has a 'TheBoy' driving style if I'm honest, the throttle is quite often on or off, which to be honest the sound the engine makes I don't blame him.
It's going in for it's first service soon at 20k miles, still on the original tyres!
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It's going in for it's first service soon at 20k miles, still on the original tyres!
Then he hasn't perfected the "TheBoy" driving style and should keep practising. ;)
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Since the Consimer Rights Act 2015 :y-
Innnnnteresting. Thanks Mr Jimmy :y
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It's going in for it's first service soon at 20k miles, still on the original tyres!
Then he hasn't perfected the "TheBoy" driving style and should keep practising. ;)
Ohh he has, many a time traction control is off, fair bit of sideways action.
He let me have a drive, very easy to get those rear wheels slipping.
Just appears light on tyres, maybe not so heavy? (the car i mean ;D) :-\
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Sorry to hear this, is there any update from the dealer?
I'll let me car share buddy know, he has a M235i on a 65 Plate, so very similar workings.
Not as yet, which I'm guessing means it didn't yield any answers when threatened with a 12 year old and his laptop. They're probably y'know, having to poke about with spanners n stuff. ;).
On a separate note, this is my hire-steed for the duration my car is being poked and prodded. Nice enough car, and impressive for a motor that will do 48mpg with my usual driving style (the M140i sees about 26 on the same route).
(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c170/jimmy944/8AFCC780-D11E-4866-9758-CA25B53CAB2B.jpg) (http://s27.photobucket.com/user/jimmy944/media/8AFCC780-D11E-4866-9758-CA25B53CAB2B.jpg.html)
It is however a bit "bling" for me. After 1 was in 4 months, my M140i was just starting to look like every estate agent's 116d ;). I bet the dealer will ruin the carefully crafted patina of dirt!
TBH I wouldn't worry your buddy about it, from what everyone has said to me (dealer, recovery truck as well as model specific forums) this is a really unusual one so its unlikely that theres any cause for concern. Once I know more, I'll definitely update!
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48 MPG.......I'm guessing this means it runs on lorry/canal boat fuel? :-\
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I've been pondering what could cause such a total failure which then went away without trace. I reckon one of the critical devices on the CAN bus threw a woobly - ECU controlling all the dashboard controls might do it, for example.
Presumably, it restarted itself on a watchdog eventually and all was well again. ???
Such a fault probably doesn't bode well for a diagnosis from the dealer. Unless it left fault codes in a load of other ECUs that lost comms with it and whoever encountered them could read between the lines and tell what happened, I reckon a shrug of the shoulders is the most likely outcome.
.. a disadvantage of modern heavily integrated car systems that we will all have to learn to live with eventually, I guess.
I hope they find something that gives you some peace of mind, though. :y
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Almost sounds like it lost contact with the key? :-\
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48 MPG.......I'm guessing this means it runs on lorry/canal boat fuel? :-\
Certainly does. to be fair, the engine is good for a diesel and is streets ahead of others I've had as hire cars (ford, pug and Renault to name but 3). Overall I prefer the small turbo petrol in swmbo's yeti though, which returns a comparable 44-45mpg on the same run. I have to say that I think the 320d is geared/designed to flatter the 0-62 test. It just dies off completely midway through a 45-85 run as I found out at about 6am when I tried to overtake something on an A road :o. Makes it pretty useless as an overtaking tool, but a 0-60 time of 7.5s hints that it ought to be quite handy.
Kevin: I'm inclined to agree unfortunately. Once I had (at BMW's request) waggled the big battery cables in the boot and found them to be securely in place, I was out of ideas other than "one black box deciding not to talk to another black box". In all honesty I'm glad I recorded the incident, as other than a message telling me the clock was showing the wrong time for my time zone ::) there was no evidence that anything had occurred. Also I suspect if there were error codes logged, someone would have called to tell me by now.
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Almost sounds like it lost contact with the key? :-\
Funny you should say that, I did get a "key not in car" error a few days ago, probably all joined up somehow :-\.
Also, if you want to see how dead a dead car can be, and me nearly being run over by a bicyclist (TBF to him i was standing on a cycle path at the time) this is the video I recorded and sent to the dealer. As a warning, I think it has a bit of swearing on it, so probably should be marked NSFW with the sound on ;)
http://vid27.photobucket.com/albums/c170/jimmy944/4CC856BF-B3CA-4708-81CC-9CDE64D0B08F.mp4 (http://vid27.photobucket.com/albums/c170/jimmy944/4CC856BF-B3CA-4708-81CC-9CDE64D0B08F.mp4)
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Random theory... communication with key was blocked by something. One of the car parks at work, if i park in certain area the bloody key for the 3.2 won't work unless I'm right next to it. All other car parks it's fine, but this one the key has to be almost touching the paint work for it to work.
I wonder if somehow the keys wireless communication was blocked by something?
I know the range on them is quite impressive, so quite easily get some disruption? Or loose connection in the key to provide power to it?
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Random theory... communication with key was blocked by something. One of the car parks at work, if i park in certain area the bloody key for the 3.2 won't work unless I'm right next to it. All other car parks it's fine, but this one the key has to be almost touching the paint work for it to work.
I wonder if somehow the keys wireless communication was blocked by something?
I know the range on them is quite impressive, so quite easily get some disruption? Or loose connection in the key to provide power to it?
It would be a brave manufacturer who coded a car in motion to completely shut down without warning in that scenario, though. I would imagine that, once it's verified presence of the key at startup, it's designed to stay running regardless but I might be wrong.
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Random theory... communication with key was blocked by something. One of the car parks at work, if i park in certain area the bloody key for the 3.2 won't work unless I'm right next to it. All other car parks it's fine, but this one the key has to be almost touching the paint work for it to work.
I wonder if somehow the keys wireless communication was blocked by something?
I know the range on them is quite impressive, so quite easily get some disruption? Or loose connection in the key to provide power to it?
It would be a brave manufacturer who coded a car in motion to completely shut down without warning in that scenario, though. I would imagine that, once it's verified presence of the key at startup, it's designed to stay running regardless but I might be wrong.
Kevin I think you're right about this. I think it just bongs at you and won't restart if switched off. Also the auto slams itself into P if you're doing <5mph. Happened to a forum member over at babybmw and nearly concussed him ;D. Mine felt far more like a power failure of some kind. I'll call them after work this evening and see what the lie of the land is.
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Random theory... communication with key was blocked by something. One of the car parks at work, if i park in certain area the bloody key for the 3.2 won't work unless I'm right next to it. All other car parks it's fine, but this one the key has to be almost touching the paint work for it to work.
I wonder if somehow the keys wireless communication was blocked by something?
I know the range on them is quite impressive, so quite easily get some disruption? Or loose connection in the key to provide power to it?
It would be a brave manufacturer who coded a car in motion to completely shut down without warning in that scenario, though. I would imagine that, once it's verified presence of the key at startup, it's designed to stay running regardless but I might be wrong.
Kevin I think you're right about this. I think it just bongs at you and won't restart if switched off. Also the auto slams itself into P if you're doing <5mph. Happened to a forum member over at babybmw and nearly concussed him ;D. Mine felt far more like a power failure of some kind. I'll call them after work this evening and see what the lie of the land is.
[/highlight][/highlight]
After 3 hours of scratching their head, and 5 hours of scratching their arse, I'm sure they'll have the solution. ::)
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It would be a brave manufacturer who coded a car in motion to completely shut down without warning in that scenario, though. I would imagine that, once it's verified presence of the key at startup, it's designed to stay running regardless but I might be wrong.
That's certainly what the Skoda does - bongs and tells you the key has gone missing.. does that if I submerge the key in my pocket under my phone and then sit on it, I've found ;D
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Almost sounds like it lost contact with the key? :-\
Funny you should say that, I did get a "key not in car" error a few days ago, probably all joined up somehow :-\.
Also, if you want to see how dead a dead car can be, and me nearly being run over by a bicyclist (TBF to him i was standing on a cycle path at the time) this is the video I recorded and sent to the dealer. As a warning, I think it has a bit of swearing on it, so probably should be marked NSFW with the sound on ;)
http://vid27.photobucket.com/albums/c170/jimmy944/4CC856BF-B3CA-4708-81CC-9CDE64D0B08F.mp4 (http://vid27.photobucket.com/albums/c170/jimmy944/4CC856BF-B3CA-4708-81CC-9CDE64D0B08F.mp4)
The passing pedestrian was very sympathetic ;D
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The passing pedestrian was very sympathetic ;D
Ha! yeah, forgot about that guy! To be fair he's about as sympathetic as most people would be to a scruffy bloke next to a brand new broken down beemer lol.
So, I decided to give the dealer a call as 16.30 was fast approaching and I suspect that that's when people would start disappearing. As predicted, the car hasn't logged any faults, nor has their joyriding testing made the fault re-appear. The garage has said that based on the key fault I reported and the video I showed them they are not happy to release the car back to me without authorisation from BMW UK that there is no known fault appearing on other cars of this type. So i suspect i will have the loaner until at least Saturday, at which point I'll be getting my un-fixed car back and the fight will begin.
*sigh*
TBH I am not happy with the outcome so far, but at the same time it is what I ultimately expected. To cap it all, I'll have to leave the bloody thing taxed and insured on the drive and put Mrs 944's car in the airport carpark for a week!
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Not the clear cut outcome you wanted. :-\
I hope they make the unfortunate episode as stress free as possible for you.
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Not the clear cut outcome you wanted. :-\
I hope they make the unfortunate episode as stress free as possible for you.
I'm sure that will be their first priority. ::) 8) :y
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Not the clear cut outcome you wanted. :-\
I hope they make the unfortunate episode as stress free as possible for you.
I'm sure that will be their first priority. ::) 8) :y
Yes...this is my concern, Mr Shackeng.
Most dealers I have encountered seem to come with an inbuilt 'f*ck you' attitude. :-\
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Not the clear cut outcome you wanted. :-\
I hope they make the unfortunate episode as stress free as possible for you.
I'm sure that will be their first priority. ::) 8) :y
Sarcasm, Chris? Surely not. ;D
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Not the clear cut outcome you wanted. :-\
I hope they make the unfortunate episode as stress free as possible for you.
Sadly not. But tbh it is the expected one. When it came back to life and the dashboard wasn't lit up like a Christmas tree I did fear this outcome. So far, the BMW mechanism has been very efficient, other than enterprise taking half a day to find me a car. I suspect that may well all change when I broach the subject of handing it back. And
Unless BMW centrally pull something out the bag that's what I'll push for I think. I need a vehicle I can trust for work. Also There's no way I could go full tilt in the thing knowing it might fail at any time so no enjoyment to be had in it either.
Sad really :-\
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Not the clear cut outcome you wanted. :-\
I hope they make the unfortunate episode as stress free as possible for you.
Sadly not. But tbh it is the expected one. When it came back to life and the dashboard wasn't lit up like a Christmas tree I did fear this outcome. So far, the BMW mechanism has been very efficient, other than enterprise taking half a day to find me a car. I suspect that may well all change when I broach the subject of handing it back. And
Unless BMW centrally pull something out the bag that's what I'll push for I think. I need a vehicle I can trust for work. Also There's no way I could go full tilt in the thing knowing it might fail at any time so no enjoyment to be had in it either.
Sad really :-\
I can understand that. The thought of it happening mid-overtake one day would probably haunt me. :-\
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Wouldn't even need to be that though with Canbus lighting systems. All it would need to do is say "computer says no" on a dark unlit fast road somewhere and you could quickly 'collect' a 'high velocity metal-clad visitor' into the back seat :-\
If it's not a good old fashioned wiring fault : loose connection/cracked fusible link/dry joint somewhere it can only be a canbus fault surely? :(
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.. or a software glitch ::) (speaks the software engineer). :-\
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Not the clear cut outcome you wanted. :-\
I hope they make the unfortunate episode as stress free as possible for you.
Sadly not. But tbh it is the expected one. When it came back to life and the dashboard wasn't lit up like a Christmas tree I did fear this outcome. So far, the BMW mechanism has been very efficient, other than enterprise taking half a day to find me a car. I suspect that may well all change when I broach the subject of handing it back. And
Unless BMW centrally pull something out the bag that's what I'll push for I think. I need a vehicle I can trust for work. Also There's no way I could go full tilt in the thing knowing it might fail at any time so no enjoyment to be had in it either.
Sad really :-\
I can understand that. The thought of it happening mid-overtake one day would probably haunt me. :-\
I've had 2 cars that have done that on multiple occasions:
Rover diesel, used to go to idle if you touched the brake at same time as accelerator - not uncommon with slightly misjudge a tight overtake, and just need to lose a bit of speed without taking turbo off boil. Solution, which I became reasonably adept at after a while was as soon as it happened, release throttle completely and re-bury it. Still scared the crap out of me.
Shitty Focus, used to go to limp randomly (but no EML), often if used near rev limiter. Only solution was switch off and back on, not viable during tight overtakes. Dealer could never find fault, but admitted they had seen a few with similar issue, and were awaiting an answer from Ford. In the 2yrs we had it, they tried 2 or 3 firmware updates, all supposedly to fix this, but it never improved.
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So, a quick update from my friend Adrian at BMW. Still no answer from BMW Gmbh, but they have requested the full data set from the car to analyse, whatever that entails.
However, ominously they haven't done anything about the tracking or the curbed wheel (not sure if I mentioned this, but I clipped the curb bringing the car to rest, not hard, but left a small curb mark on the NSF wheel). So I get the impression that they won't be repairing that unless they can list it as consequential damage from a known fault. Otherwise, why not start the work?
I can sense an argument coming. :-\
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I imagine that pre-sale customer service is very different to after sales customer service.
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I imagine that pre-sale customer service is very different to after sales customer service.
True dat...
On a positive note, it is perfectly feasible to drive an Bmw in the snow without crashing or getting stuck...
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Indeed!
The 320 diseasel coped admirably with the 2-3mm we had on our road this morning. I was genuinely concerned! ;D. That said, the 1er is both lighter, on wider tyres and has a much more free revving engine. All of which won't help I. Getting about in the snow.
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Indeed!
The 320 diseasel coped admirably with the 2-3mm we had on our road this morning. I was genuinely concerned! ;D. That said, the 1er is both lighter, on wider tyres and has a much more free revving engine. All of which won't help I. Getting about in the snow.
Winter tyres :D
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Indeed!
The 320 diseasel coped admirably with the 2-3mm we had on our road this morning. I was genuinely concerned! ;D. That said, the 1er is both lighter, on wider tyres and has a much more free revving engine. All of which won't help I. Getting about in the snow.
Winter tyres :D
In the old days winter tyres were fitted to the sole of the right foot........mine still are.
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I imagine that pre-sale customer service is very different to after sales customer service.
True dat...
On a positive note, it is perfectly feasible to drive an Bmw in the snow without crashing or getting stuck...
Well, that's a turn up for the books, as 10-12yrs ago, BMW were a laughing stock for getting stranded in snow, particularly for those models where it wasn't possible to disable TC.
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I imagine that pre-sale customer service is very different to after sales customer service.
True dat...
On a positive note, it is perfectly feasible to drive an Bmw in the snow without crashing or getting stuck...
Well, that's a turn up for the books, as 10-12yrs ago, BMW were a laughing stock for getting stranded in snow, particularly for those models where it wasn't possible to disable TC.
That was still the case a couple of years ago: my boss was turning down BMW 'warranty' recoveries that were simple lack of traction
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The DSC has a switch but unlike Mercedes and Vauxhall, the gearbox doesn't have a winter mode...
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...However, ominously they haven't done anything about the tracking or the curbed wheel (not sure if I mentioned this, but I clipped the curb bringing the car to rest, not hard, but left a small curb mark on the NSF wheel). So I get the impression that they won't be repairing that unless they can list it as consequential damage from a known fault. Otherwise, why not start the work?
I can sense an argument coming. :-\
Whilst I understand your reasoning, I highly doubt they'll accept that as their responsibility; any more than they'd pay for repairs to a line of traffic you may have totalled as a result of the same incident. In their view that's what insurance is for probably.
Good luck if you're dealing with Elms or Spires btw. The former are unhelpful, the latter are fraudsters. :(
One of my former colleagues had a 525d in at bmw for 5 weeks having a known issue resolved under warranty! :o
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...However, ominously they haven't done anything about the tracking or the curbed wheel (not sure if I mentioned this, but I clipped the curb bringing the car to rest, not hard, but left a small curb mark on the NSF wheel). So I get the impression that they won't be repairing that unless they can list it as consequential damage from a known fault. Otherwise, why not start the work?
I can sense an argument coming. :-\
Whilst I understand your reasoning, I highly doubt they'll accept that as their responsibility; any more than they'd pay for repairs to a line of traffic you may have totalled as a result of the same incident. In their view that's what insurance is for probably.
Good luck if you're dealing with Elms or Spires btw. The former are unhelpful, the latter are fraudsters. :(
One of my former colleagues had a 525d in at bmw for 5 weeks having a known issue resolved under warranty! :o
Yes, I think they will probably see it that way. However the way I look at it, if the timing chain snapped, I'd want all the resultant damage paid for as well, not just a brand new timing chain and a bill for the rest of the engine.
If they fix the main issue, I'll get it done and pay for it, then then when it's all died down launch a small claims action for the couple of hundred the tracking and alloy cost to repair. It won't be cost effective for them to pay a solicitor to contest that amount and they'll just pay up. :).
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...However, ominously they haven't done anything about the tracking or the curbed wheel (not sure if I mentioned this, but I clipped the curb bringing the car to rest, not hard, but left a small curb mark on the NSF wheel). So I get the impression that they won't be repairing that unless they can list it as consequential damage from a known fault. Otherwise, why not start the work?
I can sense an argument coming. :-\
Whilst I understand your reasoning, I highly doubt they'll accept that as their responsibility; any more than they'd pay for repairs to a line of traffic you may have totalled as a result of the same incident. In their view that's what insurance is for probably.
Good luck if you're dealing with Elms or Spires btw. The former are unhelpful, the latter are fraudsters. :(
One of my former colleagues had a 525d in at bmw for 5 weeks having a known issue resolved under warranty! :o
Yes, I think they will probably see it that way. However the way I look at it, if the timing chain snapped, I'd want all the resultant damage paid for as well, not just a brand new timing chain and a bill for the rest of the engine.
If they fix the main issue, I'll get it done and pay for it, then then when it's all died down launch a small claims action for the couple of hundred the tracking and alloy cost to repair. It won't be cost effective for them to pay a solicitor to contest that amount and they'll just pay up. :).
They won't love you anymore, though, and will piss in your petrol tank next time it goes in.
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Reminds me of my Jag S-Type stopping in the 3rd lane of the M25 in Surrey - nothing - no hazards, couldn't even release the electronic handbrake. To say we were shitting ourselves was an understatement - luckily we'd passed a busy about 1/2 mile back speaking nicely to a fellow motorist on the hard shoulder. He passed us on the hardshoulder getting up to speed before joining the carriageway - he stopped, put his blues on and reversed across the 2 lanes to station himself behaind us until the recovery truck arrived - he had to use his booster battery to release the handbrake. Turned out to be failed alternator - had no symptoms or lights - just went!!
Was well pissed off that couldn't even listen to Radio 2 to hear about the queue we caused ;D
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To update:
I received the car back on Friday, having had the FEM (Front End Module) replaced. Which sounded hopeful, however, as far as I can work out, the FEM operates wipers, door locks, windows, mirrors etc. Not critical systems, nor anything to do with the ignition. :-\ Secondly, when it was initially tested by both the dealership and BMW, the FEM unit (along with all other modules) showed no errors. :(. Now, I am not in any way a BMW specialist, so, for now I am going with it. However, the cynic in me is thinking that they have just picked something to replace, and gone with a big dollop of hoping for the best. When I next speak to the service manager, I'm going to request an explanation from BMW UK as to a) why the unit is responsible for the issue and b) why it is being replaced when it showed no errors.
However, while they had the car, some BMW chimp has managed to put a nice little scratch in my door card on the drivers side. So it will be back at the dealer shortly anyway to have that addressed >:(.
The saga continues. ::)
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Good luck with this. Any progress with the consequential wheel damage? :y
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Thanks :)
Not yet unfortunately, I got the "Saturday girl" when I went to collect the car, she didn't know what had been done, what FEM stood for, what it did, or come to that, where they had left my car! However, the service manager is getting a family sized earfull on Monday over the door card so I'm hoping I will get it put right as part of the same conversation.
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I hope you get some progress today but I would question BMW haters, it's not the cars that are the problem as much as badge snobbery, if some one turns up at a petrol station in a mid 90s 3 series and it's mint with BMW car club uk sticker in the window then they clearly love that brand, if on the other hand they say it the best because it's German I struggle.
Asking one of these people why there awesome 3 series comes from South Africa will confuse them in the same was as Mercedes snobs don't like questions about recent problems with rust and if you want to push the point CLK, C and E class convertible drivers may not like refferances to Hitler or taxis!
Porsche snobs probably won't thank you for reminding the one car in the range has the same name as the emergency services in the US or if the drive the smaller car possibly won't like sentaces with the word penis or extension in them!
Personally while I can apriciate most cars my soft spot is Audi and yes that includes the not so Germanic Q7 as well as Vauxhall.
I can only hope this brightens your day when dealing with the service manager. good lick
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I hope you get some progress today but I would question BMW haters, it's not the cars that are the problem as much as badge snobbery, if some one turns up at a petrol station in a mid 90s 3 series and it's mint with BMW car club uk sticker in the window then they clearly love that brand, if on the other hand they say it the best because it's German I struggle.
Asking one of these people why there awesome 3 series comes from South Africa will confuse them in the same was as Mercedes snobs don't like questions about recent problems with rust and if you want to push the point CLK, C and E class convertible drivers may not like refferances to Hitler or taxis!
Porsche snobs probably won't thank you for reminding the one car in the range has the same name as the emergency services in the US or if the drive the smaller car possibly won't like sentaces with the word penis or extension in them!
Personally while I can apriciate most cars my soft spot is Audi and yes that includes the not so Germanic Q7 as well as Vauxhall.
I can only hope this brightens your day when dealing with the service manager. good lick
Exactly that sadly :y :y
When some people sit behind the 4 blade propeller on the steering wheel and they turn into a complete arrogant nob
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When some people sit behind the 4 blade propeller on the steering wheel and they turn into a complete arrogant nob
It's like you've seen me driving the BMW... :D
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With any luck we are cheering you up, im sue I speak for the majority when I say I hope the dealer comes back with some positive news and treats you with respect.
My last encounter with a Vauxhall dealer was awful and in fairness I wouldn't have gone there if it wasn't for the problem being door lock related.
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When some people sit behind the 4 blade propeller on the steering wheel and they turn into a complete arrogant nob
It's like you've seen me driving the BMW... :D
As the old Chinese proverb says, it's not what you drive, but rather how you drive it :D
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Perhaps that Chinese proverb should be pointed out to the OAP with the hat on the parcel shelf of his Volvo?
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Dare we ask what happened at BMW ?
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Dare we ask what happened at BMW ?
Apologies for the slow response, but until yesterday, nothing much had happened.
Mixed news I'm afraid. On the one hand, BMW have agreed to sort the wheel curbing and the door card with BMW Gmbh funding the wheel and the dealership funding the door :y. The right result, but I have to say not the one I was expecting!
The bad news is I have started seeing the "key not in car" error again when I get in it. Only every so often but the last time it started with this it ended up with me at the side of the road. Having said that I don't have any firm evidence that the two issues are related, only that they showed up one after the other last time. :-X
To be honest I am done with the car now, the enjoyment has definitely gone :(. If it fails again I'll return it to BMW, otherwise I'll wait until I am out of negative equity on it and get rid of it (somehow).
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If on HP, it can be returned with you paying half the agreement balance. Say £25K car, £5k deposit, 47 months @£500pm plus £600 final payment.
Total finance £24100. 50% being £12050. So you hand the car back and your liability drops to £12050 less any payments, say 5 months worth, so £2500. This leaves you a bill of £9550 to get shot. This figure is the absolute maximum and makes no allowance for interest rebates, reasonably you should get £2050 off this, but potentially this could be as much as £3600 allowing for the same five months paid, so your actual liability might only be £6000.
Alternatively you can sell the car for the finance settlement figure plus 10%.
The 10% is to allow haggling room without leaving you out of pocket.
I know these figures are imaginary, but they should demonstrate the principle.
I also know someone who might buy the car from you should the dealer not bite your arm off.
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If on HP, it can be returned with you paying half the agreement balance. Say £25K car, £5k deposit, 47 months @£500pm plus £600 final payment.
Total finance £24100. 50% being £12050. So you hand the car back and your liability drops to £12050 less any payments, say 5 months worth, so £2500. This leaves you a bill of £9550 to get shot. This figure is the absolute maximum and makes no allowance for interest rebates, reasonably you should get £2050 off this, but potentially this could be as much as £3600 allowing for the same five months paid, so your actual liability might only be £6000.
Alternatively you can sell the car for the finance settlement figure plus 10%.
The 10% is to allow haggling room without leaving you out of pocket.
I know these figures are imaginary, but they should demonstrate the principle.
I also know someone who might buy the car from you should the dealer not bite your arm off.
Only if it's regulated by the CCA 1974 I think. Which some finance providers seem to be able to exempt themselves from. (Jaguar for one).
Not that he's going to be f***ing stupid enough to do that anyway ::)
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It's a pretty efficient way of disposing of a two year/130K mile old taxi :-X
I only posted earlier as it is an option and to explain how the numbers work. It's obviously not the first choice, but depends on ops circumstances and how desperate he is to get shot...
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I think, if it's displaying an error message that it did just before going postal last time, and thus clearly not fixed yet, I'd be turning up on their forecourt every time it does it until they agree to take it back. ;)
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I think, if it's displaying an error message that it did just before going postal last time, and thus clearly not fixed yet, I'd be turning up on their forecourt every time it does it until they agree to take it back. ;)
Agreed.
Why should you have to put up with the mounting anxiety of a possible/probable breakdown.
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Camera phone at the ready each time you get in the car. A faff, I know, which shouldn't be necessary. But if it breaks down again, it's all evidence for a return of the vehicle.
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Camera phone at the ready each time you get in the car. A faff, I know, which shouldn't be necessary. But if it breaks down again, it's all evidence for a return of the vehicle.
Jimmy will end up a nervous wreck, thinking.......is this the night his demonic bastard of a car is going to break down.
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From experience I can say be firm, list every time the car has let you down and how.
I did this with a corsa i had, my dealer wanted to sell me another one the same age and spec minus the 2015 sat nav phone unit.
In my case I refused and because VX wanted to sell another unit like BMW will, we agreed on a new car with matching spec.
I'm guessing from what your saying you want nothing to do with BMW now?
If that's the case you can insist they pay off your finance and walk siting the cars unreliability and I'd expect they will want minimal fuss
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Failing all that, remember that you actually purchased the car from the finance company so get them on BMW's case
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Camera phone at the ready each time you get in the car. A faff, I know, which shouldn't be necessary. But if it breaks down again, it's all evidence for a return of the vehicle.
Jimmy will end up a nervous wreck, thinking.......is this the night his demonic bastard of a car is going to break down.
It's bound to be late at night while he's passing that layby with all the steamed up windows and blokes with anoraks and torches, too. ::)
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Be looking at around £27K if you sell it :-\
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Be looking at around £27K if you sell it :-\
Which would be taking a £5k bath on it. >:(.
But I would only go down that road if I were certain it were fully working again. It's one thing to have this sort of thing as luck of the draw, another thing entirely to knowingly pass it on to someone else.
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Be looking at around £27K if you sell it :-\
Which would be taking a £5k bath on it. >:(.
But I would only go down that road if I were certain it were fully working again. It's one thing to have this sort of thing as luck of the draw, another thing entirely to knowingly pass it on to someone else.
That would effectively be a trade price allowing a retail margin and allowing for as yet undiagnosed issue ;)
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Be looking at around £27K if you sell it :-\
Which would be taking a £5k bath on it. >:(.
But I would only go down that road if I were certain it were fully working again. It's one thing to have this sort of thing as luck of the draw, another thing entirely to knowingly pass it on to someone else.
Sell it to STMO, The old boy need never know. :)
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Judging by his previous car choice, and his other thread, I fear it may be a little understated for his tastes.
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Judging by his previous car choice, and his other thread, I fear it may be a little understated for his tastes.
You know when they have these internet polls showing the ten worst cars of all time?
Well.......I believe dear old STMO has owned about seven of them. :)
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Vauxhall Omega, Mazda Rx8, Jaguar X type, Corsa B, Mercedes Golf trousers... Although to be fair at least the CLS had a proper engine...
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I must say I have a soft spot for the Rex-8. For under £2k there seems to be plenty of fun to be had.
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I must say I have a soft spot for the Rex-8. For under £2k there seems to be plenty of fun masochismto be had.
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I must say I have a soft spot for the Rex-8. For under £2k there seems to be plenty of fun to be had.
Really?? :o Have you been in one?? :-\
Hateful hateful things. Possibly the single worst car I've ever had the misery of being transported in. Only went a mile and a half and I felt sick and I'm never car sick. >:(
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Judging by his previous car choice, and his other thread, I fear it may be a little understated for his tastes.
You know when they have these internet polls showing the ten worst cars of all time?
Well.......I believe dear old STMO has owned about seven of them. :)
Let's see now. Recent history:
Omega CDX 2.5 V6
Saab 900 turbo
Honda legend 3.2 V6
Alfa 166 3.2 V6
Zafira 1.6
Astra H 1.6
Chevrolet Orlando 1.8 (Another zafira, really)
Astra J estate 1.4
Not bad really.
Up until recently, when you released the life sentence serving moths from your wallet, I believe you ran two ancient vauxhalls, an omega and a corsa. Boring.
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I must say I have a soft spot for the Rex-8. For under £2k there seems to be plenty of fun to be had.
Driven carefully 14 MPG was possible. :)
With a redline set at 9500 RPM far less could be expected.
Little or no torque.
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I've had a few blasts in a mate's Rex and rather liked it. But I must admit, if buying myself I'd buy one needing an engine rebuild. They all need them sooner or later anyway ::).
Stemo, which 900 turbo? I'm a big fan of the flat-front :y
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Judging by his previous car choice, and his other thread, I fear it may be a little understated for his tastes.
You know when they have these internet polls showing the ten worst cars of all time?
Well.......I believe dear old STMO has owned about seven of them. :)
Let's see now. Recent history:
Omega CDX 2.5 V6
Saab 900 turbo
Honda legend 3.2 V6
Alfa 166 3.2 V6
Zafira 1.6
Astra H 1.6
Chevrolet Orlando 1.8 (Another zafira, really)
Astra J estate 1.4
Not bad really.
Up until recently, when you released the life sentence serving moths from your wallet, I believe you ran two ancient vauxhalls, an omega and a corsa. Boring.
I sense a pattern forming.
Three really quite exciting cars then a slow decline into tedium. ;) The Astra 1.4 estate being beyond dull.
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I've had a few blasts in a mate's Rex and rather liked it. But I must admit, if buying myself I'd buy one needing an engine rebuild. They all need them sooner or later anyway ::).
Stemo, which 900 turbo? I'm a big fan of the flat-front :y
2.3 four pot, I think.
Always liked Saab. :y
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I've had a few blasts in a mate's Rex and rather liked it. But I must admit, if buying myself I'd buy one needing an engine rebuild. They all need them sooner or later anyway ::).
Stemo, which 900 turbo? I'm a big fan of the flat-front :y
2.3 four pot, I think.
Always liked Saab. :y
That's the one. That's the only car I've ever felt invincible in, like a firkin big tank. ;D
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The E39 is much better built than the Omega ime.
I have to agree with Al, my E39 is by far better built than any Omega. It's a different league of quality. having worked intimately on both, the E39 is by far the better car.
It also handles and rides far better too, with much, much better road holding and cornering.
Not sure about newer ones though, I've heard the e60, which replaced the e39, has cheaper trim etc...
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Judging by his previous car choice, and his other thread, I fear it may be a little understated for his tastes.
You know when they have these internet polls showing the ten worst cars of all time?
Well.......I believe dear old STMO has owned about seven of them. :)
Let's see now. Recent history:
Omega CDX 2.5 V6
Saab 900 turbo
Honda legend 3.2 V6
Alfa 166 3.2 V6
Zafira 1.6
Astra H 1.6
Chevrolet Orlando 1.8 (Another zafira, really)
Astra J estate 1.4
Not bad really.
Up until recently, when you released the life sentence serving moths from your wallet, I believe you ran two ancient vauxhalls, an omega and a corsa. Boring.
I sense a pattern forming.
Three really quite exciting cars then a slow decline into tedium. ;) The Astra 1.4 estate being beyond dull.
Yes, but practicality overcame my need for a different car every 6 months. I'd really hate to add up what I lost on those cars. They were exactly what I was looking for at the time, but 6 months down the line I was bored with them.
Mr Gixer loved to remind me me what a plonker I was for wasting my dosh.
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I paid £8000 for my astra, 3 years old with 8000 miles, ex mobility. I've had it 18-20 months and it has 34500 miles on it now. I'm getting almost 40mpg around town and all I've spent is tyre money. It's a great load lugger, only mm shorter than the insignia.
Boring, but 'sensible'.
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I paid £8000 for my astra, 3 years old with 8000 miles, ex mobility. I've had it 18-20 months and it has 34500 miles on it now. I'm getting almost 40mpg around town and all I've spent is tyre money. It's a great load lugger, only mm shorter than the insignia.
Boring, but 'sensible'.
I was never very good at sensible.
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I paid £8000 for my astra, 3 years old with 8000 miles, ex mobility. I've had it 18-20 months and it has 34500 miles on it now. I'm getting almost 40mpg around town and all I've spent is tyre money. It's a great load lugger, only mm shorter than the insignia.
Boring, but 'sensible'.
I was never very good at sensible.
I got sensible around the same time my wife attacked my bollicks with a pair of tin snips. :-X
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Be a lesson there... ::)
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Considering having a pre mot done on mine to generate an accurate list of works before it's due in April... might get away with drop links and oil leak as advisories, in which case a new interior might be in order :-\
Good E39s are in fairly short supply, and priced accordingly, which means it makes some sort of sense spending time sorting the niggles out...
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Good E39s are in fairly short supply, and priced accordingly, which means it makes some sort of sense spending time sorting the niggles out...
Yep, the reason I'm going to town on mine, while I am in there :y
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So, to resurrect this on-going saga. ;D
The car left me tonight on the back of a low-loader. Again. Same sh!t, different day, tonight it was in the dark and the rain, I am not a happy peasant.
Someone at the dealer will be on the end of a one-way conversation tomorrow morning when I go to get my money back. >:(
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Good luck :-\
Which dealer group btw?
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Good luck :y
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Good luck :-\
Which dealer group btw?
Rybrook, worcester in my case.
So far I'd rate them as sub par. They've been very smiley and helpful, whilst not actually acheiving anything. :-\
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Good luck. :y
Hope they do the decent thing.
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Beer in hand & the dog snoring loudly I`ve just read the last 6 pages of this topic
I do hope Jimmy gets some kind of acceptable resolution to this problem
Good luck mate :)
On the other hand, I do pity the first flunky who tries to jolly him along & suggests "A BMW driving experience day" :y "just to make up for all the hasslle sir"
Might be best to take Mrs 944 with you,
It`s time to say Good night nurse..........
.................. https://youtu.be/CuGvVJhhedE?t=5s (https://youtu.be/CuGvVJhhedE?t=5s)
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Hope they do the decent thing.
And if not it would be a terrible shame if it caught fire while under their care, wouldn't it... ;) ;D
(Not really suggesting that, of course)
Hope you succeed in getting the sensible outcome here and don't have to coil one out on the managers desk!
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Clearly not fixed the problem then. :-\
I suppose you could let them try and fix the problem for a third time......but.....perhaps not. :-\
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I set the wheels in motion this morning. So far, all very smiley and understanding (much "I see where you're coming from" and grave nodding of heads going on), but no cash forthcoming yet (as expected). The dealer wants me to involve BMW UK, which I have done. Although the relevant legislation concerns the retailer not the manufacturer and both I and the BMW UK representative agreed with each other on that.
I am also on hold to BMW Financial Services, who technically own the vehicle.
Clearly not fixed the problem then. :-\
I suppose you could let them try and fix the problem for a third time......but.....perhaps not. :-\
I could, however last night's incident happened about 700 yards after I got off the M42. The prospect of sitting in the dark, stationary in the outside lane of the motorway without even my hazard lights on to warn oncoming traffic really does not bear thinking about. :o
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I set the wheels in motion this morning. So far, all very smiley and understanding (much "I see where you're coming from" and grave nodding of heads going on), but no cash forthcoming yet (as expected). The dealer wants me to involve BMW UK, which I have done. Although the relevant legislation concerns the retailer not the manufacturer and both I and the BMW UK representative agreed with each other on that.
I am also on hold to BMW Financial Services, who technically own the vehicle.
Clearly not fixed the problem then. :-\
I suppose you could let them try and fix the problem for a third time......but.....perhaps not. :-\
I could, however last night's incident happened about 700 yards after I got off the M42. The prospect of sitting in the dark, stationary in the outside lane of the motorway without even my hazard lights on to warn oncoming traffic really does not bear thinking about. :o
Blimey, you ticked the box for the optional indicators? :P ;D ;D ;D :D
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It really is shocking that you can't even use the hazard warning lights. :o That makes it a very serious safety issue, IMHO.
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It really is shocking that you can't even use the hazard warning lights. :o That makes it a very serious safety issue, IMHO.
I agree,clearly not fit for purpose.
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I set the wheels in motion this morning. So far, all very smiley and understanding (much "I see where you're coming from" and grave nodding of heads going on), but no cash forthcoming yet (as expected). The dealer wants me to involve BMW UK, which I have done. Although the relevant legislation concerns the retailer not the manufacturer and both I and the BMW UK representative agreed with each other on that.
I am also on hold to BMW Financial Services, who technically own the vehicle.
Clearly not fixed the problem then. :-\
I suppose you could let them try and fix the problem for a third time......but.....perhaps not. :-\
I could, however last night's incident happened about 700 yards after I got off the M42. The prospect of sitting in the dark, stationary in the outside lane of the motorway without even my hazard lights on to warn oncoming traffic really does not bear thinking about. :o
The air must have been blue with expletives starting with 'F' and 'C'. ;)
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I set the wheels in motion this morning. So far, all very smiley and understanding (much "I see where you're coming from" and grave nodding of heads going on), but no cash forthcoming yet (as expected). The dealer wants me to involve BMW UK, which I have done. Although the relevant legislation concerns the retailer not the manufacturer and both I and the BMW UK representative agreed with each other on that.
I am also on hold to BMW Financial Services, who technically own the vehicle.
Clearly not fixed the problem then. :-\
I suppose you could let them try and fix the problem for a third time......but.....perhaps not. :-\
I could, however last night's incident happened about 700 yards after I got off the M42. The prospect of sitting in the dark, stationary in the outside lane of the motorway without even my hazard lights on to warn oncoming traffic really does not bear thinking about. :o
The air must have been blue with expletives starting with 'F' and 'C'. ;)
Why would he have mentioned Fish and Chips ??? ;)
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I set the wheels in motion this morning. So far, all very smiley and understanding (much "I see where you're coming from" and grave nodding of heads going on), but no cash forthcoming yet (as expected). The dealer wants me to involve BMW UK, which I have done. Although the relevant legislation concerns the retailer not the manufacturer and both I and the BMW UK representative agreed with each other on that.
I am also on hold to BMW Financial Services, who technically own the vehicle.
Clearly not fixed the problem then. :-\
I suppose you could let them try and fix the problem for a third time......but.....perhaps not. :-\
I could, however last night's incident happened about 700 yards after I got off the M42. The prospect of sitting in the dark, stationary in the outside lane of the motorway without even my hazard lights on to warn oncoming traffic really does not bear thinking about. :o
The air must have been blue with expletives starting with 'F' and 'C'. ;)
Why would he have mentioned Fish and Chips ??? ;)
I was thinking 'flip' and 'cobblers' :)
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Ford and Chevrolet.......that would scare them..........not. ::)
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It really is shocking that you can't even use the hazard warning lights. :o That makes it a very serious safety issue, IMHO.
I was thinking this when Jimmy first posted, but then can-bus lighting has been around for years on loads of different cars. One assumes it's a common dangerous side effect when something serious turns it's toes up in the can system :-\
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So, I set the ball rolling at the dealership this morning, as expected there was much grave nodding and sympathetic noise making, but no offer of cash being produced. Apparently they need to "run this by their solicitors" ;D.
They also set a few traps for me, which was nice of them. They refused to take the spare keys from me (they're going in the post recorded delivery tomorrow morning) and asked me if I had any instructions for the workshop so they can "get the problem resolved". They also offered me a hire car "while they did the warranty work". All of which I refused on the basis that from the point of giving notice of rejection, I had no further interest in the vehicle, I told them I would also be moving the car onto a laid up insurance policy to make clear my intention to cease using it with immediate effect.
In short, all the fun of the fair, just as anticipated.
The dealership also asked that I involve BMW UK, which I did, by phone, who confirmed my understanding that the situation is between me, the finance company and the dealership (no buck being passed their way that's for sure!). Still, in the spirit of appearing to be fully co-operating with the process, it was worth the 10 minutes on the phone.
The last and most productive chat of the day was with BMW Financial Services (my pcp provider and the actual owners of the car). They actually have a dedicated team for this who advised me to put in writing my conversation with the dealership and they would handle things from here on out as "they have a lot more leverage than the customer". They also asked for my videos and the invoice for the work Rybrook have done, so that they can evidence the fault, the attempted repair and the re-occurrence of that fault. They were very much more open with me and at least gave the impression of being more on my side than the dealerships. I haven't let my guard down with them, but they were at least more helpful. Possibly a side effect of being a fully regulated financial services provider. :-X
The saga continues...
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Keep your pecker up mate, you will get there :y :y
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You do realise, Jimmy, that this could end up being a sort of 'test case'. If it works out for you, and I sincerely hope it does, then anyone reading this will be emboldened and approach the dealer more confidently.
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I know next to nothing about consumer and civil law..... but when spending that much money on something, which, so soon, is not fit for purpose (unsafe, breaking down on fast roads) - you must have some recourse.
You've not had it five minutes, and it's not fit for purpose. You're in the advantageous position that you have also given them chance to rectify it (without success on their part) before insisting on a refund. to a judge that shows that you have been reasonable :y :y
I personally fancy your chances in a civil court especially if you have evidence of the breakdowns
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You do realise, Jimmy, that this could end up being a sort of 'test case'. If it works out for you, and I sincerely hope it does, then anyone reading this will be emboldened and approach the dealer more confidently.
Ha, I'll ask an admin to move it to the How To section ;D.
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I know next to nothing about consumer and civil law..... but when spending that much money on something, which, so soon, is not fit for purpose (unsafe, breaking down on fast roads) - you must have some recourse.
You've not had it five minutes, and it's not fit for purpose. You're in the advantageous position that you have also given them chance to rectify it (without success on their part) before insisting on a refund. to a judge that shows that you have been reasonable :y :y
I personally fancy your chances in a civil court especially if you have evidence of the breakdowns
Yep.
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Being on a PCP, gives different rights/options for disposal. Your contract is, as you know, with the finance company, and theirs is with the dealer as the car supplier.
Not sure if you would be entitled to financial recourse... mileage/value/payments made, but you should find it easy enough to get out of the contract as they have provided you with something clearly not fit for purpose.
Have found Alphera pretty easy to deal with in the past, so hopefully once they have the dealership by the gingangoolies, it should be resolved pretty quickly ;)
Good luck :y
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I agree, they have been the most helpful so far, and with good reason, as you point out.
Copied below is my formal notification to the dealer of rejection of the car. Its a bit of a long read, but may be of use in case anyone in the future needs a template sh!tty letter to send someone ;D.
Dear Sirs,
On 17 September 2016, I purchased from your dealership a BMW M140i, registration number VX66PYD. This was a long-awaited purchase and a car that I was most looking forward to driving.
On 11 January 2017, the vehicle developed a very serious fault whilst I was driving through the centre of Kidderminster. The fault essentially involved all of the vehicle’s electrical systems shutting down at the same instant. This left me not only without the iDrive, climate control and gauges, but crucially without engine power, power assisted steering or braking assistance. In bringing the vehicle to a halt, the front nearside wheel also sustained minor curbing damage. Confusingly, this inactive state only lasted some 3-4 minutes, thereafter the car behaved normally, with the exception of a message requesting that the clock be reset.
The vehicle was recovered to Rybrook Worcester BMW that same day, I was then compelled to wait for half a day for a hire car to be located and delivered to my home address, which caused significant disruption to my day’s plans.
VX66PYD then remained in your workshop for diagnosis, repair and testing until 20 January 2017. I was informed that the “FEM Control Unit” had been identified as the source of the issue and that this unit had been replaced. However, during this time, the damage to the front wheel was not rectified, despite my mentioning it both to the recovery driver and to the Service Advisor. Finally, at some point while in your care, the vehicle sustained further damage in the form of a deep scratch to the driver’s side door card. This was either not noticed or noticed and not disclosed to me prior to my collection of the vehicle.
The car was released back to me on the 20 January 2017, however the fault re-occurred on the evening of 31 January 2017 while I was returning from work. This time the situation was significantly more dangerous, occurring as it did in the dark and on a wet road. Again, I was unable to use the power assisted brakes or steering and crucially, I was unable to activate my hazard warning lights to warn other road users that I had come to rest in the carriageway.
The episode was particularly frightening to me as it occurred less than a mile after I left the motorway. The idea of becoming stationary, without power or lighting on a motorway, frankly does not bear thinking about. It is chiefly for this reason that I have taken the decision to exercise my Final Right of Rejection of the vehicle in line with the provisions of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (hereafter: the Act) and am seeking a refund of monies paid to date for the vehicle.
Specifically, it is my assertion that the car is not of satisfactory quality as defined under Section 9 (3) of the Act. This section highlights that quality includes the safety of goods and their fitness for all the purposes for which goods of that kind are usually supplied. Clearly the aforementioned fault renders the car of unsatisfactory quality on both of these grounds.
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continued...
Given that the vehicle is more than 30 days, but less than 6 months old, the Act requires that a retailer is provided with an opportunity to repair the Goods (in this case the car) when a fault is discovered. Rybrook Worcester had ample opportunity to do this during the period 11-20 January 2017. Indeed, my discussions with the Service Advisor during this period gave me every reason to believe that the underlying fault had been fully rectified.
On 01 February 2017, I attended Rybrook Worcester and gave formal notice to Mr R Haywood that I wished to reject the vehicle in line with the provisions of the Act. He requested that I contact both BMW UK and BMW Financial Services who (under the terms of my PCP agreement) are the owners of VX66PYD until the last payment is made. BMW UK raised a complaint ticket (Ref No. 1-45891073778) in relation to my call but confirmed my understanding that the Consumer Rights Act is a matter between a consumer and a retailer which does not involve them. Should you need to confirm this, I have made it clear that I am happy for you to contact them directly.
I simply cannot continue to drive the vehicle with a potentially very serious fault for which Rybrook had clearly failed to identify a cause. I have lost all faith, both in the vehicle and in the ability of Rybrook to satisfactorily repair it. This is before considering the stress and fear which this entire episode has caused, which I have no desire to repeat.
During my discussion with BMW Financial Services, they requested that I confirm what has happened so far and my notification of rejection of the vehicle in writing. They then requested that I have no further contact with Rybrook while this matter is resolved. Accordingly, I will direct all future communication on this matter through them.
It should be noted that at this present moment I still hold both the V5 and the spare keys for VX66PYD. I offered to surrender these to Mr R Haywood yesterday, but he refused to take them from me. I will be happy for you to collect both the keys and the V5 from my home address at any point which is convenient to you. I have already provided video footage of the car to you in its failed state which I consider to be proof positive of the continuing existence of this fault. Should you need any further information from me regarding VX66PYD, please direct these requests via the BMW Financial Services escalation team, in line with their request. Their email address is csescalations@bmwfin.com should you need contact details for them.
I have kept the vehicle insured on a comprehensive policy, but only with the minimum mileage that my insurer will allow. Yesterday Mr Haywood asked that I give instructions regarding the repair of the vehicle and (as I did yesterday) I wish to make it clear that I have no instructions regarding its repair as I have no intention of maintaining an interest in the vehicle once this process is concluded. It will therefore be a matter for Rybrook Worcester to decide what (if any) action they take regarding the vehicle.
I hope that this matter can be resolved swiftly, to the satisfaction of all parties concerned and without the need for any legal action on my part.
Yours faithfully,
Mr 944
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A most succinct and articulate response, Jimmy.
It would be all too easy to let 'emotion' cloud your thinking.
I have a good feeling about the outcome. :y
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Love it.
Will you be my PA, Jimmy? :-*
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Love it.
Will you be my PA, Jimmy? :-*
Nah......he would need to have blonde hair and big tits to qualify for the position. :)
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Love it.
Will you be my PA, Jimmy? :-*
Nah......he would need to have blonde hair and big tits to qualify for the position. :)
Not necessarily. I've lowered my sights these days. ;D
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.......and a nice moist pussy. :)
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Love it.
Will you be my PA, Jimmy? :-*
Nah......he would need to have blonde hair and big tits to qualify for the position. :)
Technically I'm 50% of the way there. One does tend to over-indulge at Christmas!
.......and a nice moist pussy. :)
And I'm out! :o
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.......and a nice moist pussy. :)
Here do...
https://uk.pinterest.com/pin/210684088790838065/
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.......and a nice moist pussy. :)
Here do...
https://uk.pinterest.com/pin/210684088790838065/
Thanks, Al........but I'm not a big fan of a hairy pussy. Wet yes.....Hairy no. :D ;)
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Being on a PCP, gives different rights/options for disposal. Your contract is, as you know, with the finance company, and theirs is with the dealer as the car supplier.
Not sure if you would be entitled to financial recourse... mileage/value/payments made, but you should find it easy enough to get out of the contract as they have provided you with something clearly not fit for purpose.
Have found Alphera pretty easy to deal with in the past, so hopefully once they have the dealership by the gingangoolies, it should be resolved pretty quickly ;)
Good luck :y
Did I not say this a few pages back? ::) ::)
Failing all that, remember that you actually purchased the car from the finance company so get them on BMW's case
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You did indeed, which is why they are handling it on my behalf with the dealer. :y
I had a chat with CAB today, they confirmed that they (BMW Fin Serv) have 8 weeks to arrange a resolution before I involve the Financial Ombudsman service. Within a couple of days I should have a named case worker, who may well regret that they were allocated me as a customer ;D.
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You did indeed, which is why they are handling it on my behalf with the dealer. :y
I had a chat with CAB today, they confirmed that they (BMW Fin Serv) have 8 weeks to arrange a resolution before I involve the Financial Ombudsman service. Within a couple of days I should have a named case worker, who may well regret that they were allocated me as a customer ;D.
TBH, you will probably find they get it resolved surprisingly quickly ;) It is the one really good thing about buying vehicles on finance
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Indeed. Although my typical timeline for such things tends to run:
1. Polite letter requesting something within 14 days.
2. Polite letter explaining that we'll be off to court in 14 days as they ignored my first polite letter
3. File a small claims court claim and prepare my papers.
As yet, only one company has ever filed a defence against me. But ultimately I went on to turn up to court alone.
8 weeks feels like a helluva long time to me. ;)
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Indeed. Although my typical timeline for such things tends to run:
1. Polite letter requesting something within 14 days.
2. Polite letter explaining that we'll be off to court in 14 days as they ignored my first polite letter
3. File a small claims court claim and prepare my papers.
As yet, only one company has ever filed a defence against me. But ultimately I went on to turn up to court alone.
8 weeks feels like a helluva long time to me. ;)
Are you still paying the finance?
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I am, to not do so would damage my credit score, and ultimately, until its all resolved I am obliged to do so.
Fortunately, with my omega still available this isn't causing a cash flow problem at the moment. I might be in a bit of a pickle if I had got my act together and sold the mig before Christmas as I had planned to!
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I am, to not do so would damage my credit score, and ultimately, until its all resolved I am obliged to do so.
Fortunately, with my omega still available this isn't causing a cash flow problem at the moment. I might be in a bit of a pickle if I had got my act together and sold the mig before Christmas as I had planned to!
No such thing. The only person who sees you credit score is you. :)
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I thought I would resurrect this for a bit of an update. I've been giving the finance company weekly hurry-ups to see where they're at. The latest being today. Apparently they have replaced the battery, put 500miles on the car and nothing has re-appeared. However there is still an open escalation case (PUMA case they call it) with BMW UK, which doesn't seem to add up. ???
What I suspect they're doing is slow playing me to try and get me to accept a replacement rather than a refund (they asked again about this and emphasised that it could be done quickly if I wanted it).
Shame that they don't know about the mighty Desmond ;D
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I thought I would resurrect this for a bit of an update. I've been giving the finance company weekly hurry-ups to see where they're at. The latest being today. Apparently they have replaced the battery, put 500miles on the car and nothing has re-appeared. However there is still an open escalation case (PUMA case they call it) with BMW UK, which doesn't seem to add up. ???
What I suspect they're doing is slow playing me to try and get me to accept a replacement rather than a refund (they asked again about this and emphasised that it could be done quickly if I wanted it).
Shame that they don't know about the mighty Desmond ;D
Say sure, if they do a replacement M1 or M2? :D
For the same monies of course!
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Say sure, if they do a replacement M1 or M2? :D
For the same monies of course!
TBH, a faster "more of the same" would just make me even more nervous about when it would next choose to die on me. :-\
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I thought I would resurrect this for a bit of an update. I've been giving the finance company weekly hurry-ups to see where they're at. The latest being today. Apparently they have replaced the battery, put 500miles on the car and nothing has re-appeared. However there is still an open escalation case (PUMA case they call it) with BMW UK, which doesn't seem to add up. ???
What I suspect they're doing is slow playing me to try and get me to accept a replacement rather than a refund (they asked again about this and emphasised that it could be done quickly if I wanted it).
Shame that they don't know about the mighty Desmond ;D
Say sure, if they do a replacement M1 or M2? :D
For the same monies of course!
This one is an ugly little runt.
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I thought I would resurrect this for a bit of an update. I've been giving the finance company weekly hurry-ups to see where they're at. The latest being today. Apparently they have replaced the battery, put 500miles on the car and nothing has re-appeared. However there is still an open escalation case (PUMA case they call it) with BMW UK, which doesn't seem to add up. ???
What I suspect they're doing is slow playing me to try and get me to accept a replacement rather than a refund (they asked again about this and emphasised that it could be done quickly if I wanted it).
Shame that they don't know about the mighty Desmond ;D
Say sure, if they do a replacement M1 or M2? :D
For the same monies of course!
This one is an ugly little runt.
Not at all old boy :o :o
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M1
the 1M on the other hand is a bit of a red headed step child :)
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I thought I would resurrect this thread from page 2 obscurity for a bit of an update.
I called BMW FS again today for their weekly reminder that I haven't gone away or died and....
It looks like the dealer has accepted the return of the car :y.
Nothing is finalised yet, but they have a settlement figure on their system which is to be split between the dealer and BMWFS. I am not sure how this works exactly, it will be to do with the split of money from my deposit and monthly payments, some going to the dealer, some to the finance company. What I do know is that they have proposed a figure which is equal to all that I have paid, less one month's PCP payment.
IF this comes off (and I aint counting until the cheque has cleared), it is more than I would have fought them for. It will mean that I am only "down" about £430 (plus 6 weeks' insurance while they have had the car) and I have had use of the car for about 4.5 months and 5,000 miles. Even considering the aggravation it has caused me, I think this is, at least, a fair result. Then again, had I been rear-ended by an articulated lorry on the M42 one night, I'd probably feel very differently :o.
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Sounds like a good result :y :y
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The new 5 series looks nice...
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The new 5 series looks nice...
Not quite as nice when you've bolted one of these to the roof just in case... ::)
(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/4J4AAOxydB1Sjib2/s-l400.jpg)
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The new 5 series looks nice...
Not quite as nice when you've bolted one of these to the roof just in case... ::)
(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/4J4AAOxydB1Sjib2/s-l400.jpg)
That won't work if the power goes... need batteries :D
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I don't recall an issue with the charge in the battery, just that the shite firmware wouldn't let any of it out. ;D
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Provisionally sounds like a good result. :y
The world of exciting motoring options is opening up for you once again. :y
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The new 5 series looks nice...
They do. I had thought about that, but for my budget it'd be a 2.0d bones-of-yer-ar$e spec. And the 3 series doesn't appeal.
The world of exciting motoring options is opening up for you once again. :y
Indeed so. However a potential new job and 25-30k miles/yr closes those options again! Were it to come off I would have to go for a sensible daily and a weekend toy.
Until matters resolve, I shall stay in the trusty Desmond for a little while.
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The new 5 series looks nice...
They do. I had thought about that, but for my budget it'd be a 2.0d bones-of-yer-ar$e spec. And the 3 series doesn't appeal.
The world of exciting motoring options is opening up for you once again. :y
Indeed so. However a potential new job and 25-30k miles/yr closes those options again! Were it to come off I would have to go for a sensible daily and a weekend toy.
Until matters resolve, I shall stay in the trusty Desmond for a little while.
Are you sure that a derv purchase is wise? ::)
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The new 5 series looks nice...
They do. I had thought about that, but for my budget it'd be a 2.0d bones-of-yer-ar$e spec. And the 3 series doesn't appeal.
The world of exciting motoring options is opening up for you once again. :y
Indeed so. However a potential new job and 25-30k miles/yr closes those options again! Were it to come off I would have to go for a sensible daily and a weekend toy.
Until matters resolve, I shall stay in the trusty Desmond for a little while.
Are you sure that a derv purchase is wise? ::)
Yeh cos the fact it's diesel is the main reason not to buy a new BM ::)
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Are you sure that a derv purchase is wise? ::)
I'm not sure if it will be derv tbh. But I need something that will crack 35mpg. And I genuinely prefer diesel to small (<2L) wheezy naturally aspirated petrols. Particularly as I favour 2 pedals over 3.
What the BMW did make me realise is that day to day performance isn't really important. Hence my idea to split.
I'm tempted by another Saab 9-5 aero, but that would have to be a manual :/
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Hardly the most reliable car if you intend using it to travel 25000 miles a year for work.
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Hardly the most reliable car if you intend using it to travel 25000 miles a year for work.
Really? The previous 2 I have had I ran from 60k-90k and 150-175k. In that time one had a wheel bearing and the other a coil pack. Beyond that it was pads, oil and filters.
All could well be moot if the job doesn't come off in which case I'm thinking 6-8cylinders. Probably a Jaaaag. :)
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Both of them barely did a year's worth then :)
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Well if you're going to put it like that :P
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Look after it and the Omega will get the job done indefinitely :y
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Are you sure that a derv purchase is wise? ::)
I'm not sure if it will be derv tbh. But I need something that will crack 35mpg. And I genuinely prefer diesel to small (<2L) wheezy naturally aspirated petrols. Particularly as I favour 2 pedals over 3.
What the BMW did make me realise is that day to day performance isn't really important. Hence my idea to split.
I'm tempted by another Saab 9-5 aero, but that would have to be a manual :/
I know where there's one looking for a new home ::) Needs a new donor engine and gearbox mind. Which I have a source for. Just not the time, money or inclination currently ;D
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I know where there's one looking for a new home ::) Needs a new donor engine and gearbox mind. Which I have a source for. Just not the time, money or inclination currently ;D
And there-in lies the issue. Although in my case inclination is the inclination not to get divorced by spending time lying under a car rather than finally finishing our house! ::)
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Well if you're going to put it like that :P
A Saab should be fine if well looked after. Scandinavian winters can be pretty harsh and Volvo and Saab have a reputation for durability.
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Are you sure that a derv purchase is wise? ::)
I'm not sure if it will be derv tbh. But I need something that will crack 35mpg. And I genuinely prefer diesel to small (<2L) wheezy naturally aspirated petrols. Particularly as I favour 2 pedals over 3.
What the BMW did make me realise is that day to day performance isn't really important. Hence my idea to split.
I'm tempted by another Saab 9-5 aero, but that would have to be a manual :/
A petrol engine with turbo/supercharger does all a (soon to be history) derv TD car can.....and more
I consider it madness to buy a new diesel in the current climate. :y
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Are you sure that a derv purchase is wise? ::)
I'm not sure if it will be derv tbh. But I need something that will crack 35mpg. And I genuinely prefer diesel to small (<2L) wheezy naturally aspirated petrols. Particularly as I favour 2 pedals over 3.
What the BMW did make me realise is that day to day performance isn't really important. Hence my idea to split.
I'm tempted by another Saab 9-5 aero, but that would have to be a manual :/
A petrol engine with turbo/supercharger does all a (soon to be history) derv TD car can.....and more
I consider it madness to buy a new diesel in the current climate. :y
Your bum must be aching from all the fence sitting you do on the Diesel issue. Why don't you just come out and say what you really think ;D
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Are you sure that a derv purchase is wise? ::)
I'm not sure if it will be derv tbh. But I need something that will crack 35mpg. And I genuinely prefer diesel to small (<2L) wheezy naturally aspirated petrols. Particularly as I favour 2 pedals over 3.
What the BMW did make me realise is that day to day performance isn't really important. Hence my idea to split.
I'm tempted by another Saab 9-5 aero, but that would have to be a manual :/
A petrol engine with turbo/supercharger does all a (soon to be history) derv TD car can.....and more
I consider it madness to buy a new diesel in the current climate. :y
Your bum must be aching from all the fence sitting you do on the Diesel issue. Why don't you just come out and say what you really think ;D
DEATH TO DERV......... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Less ambiguous, Jimmy? :)
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I wonder if I picked up an old derv now I'd be eligible for the mooted scrappage scheme...
Money off a new Tesla would be nice ;D
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I wonder if I picked up an old derv now I'd be eligible for the mooted scrappage scheme...
Money off a new Tesla would be nice ;D
Tesla is going places at the moment. Not sure how long it will last.
At the end of the day it's no more than a glorified milk float.
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...and the 911 is a glorified Beetle. ::) ::)
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I wonder if I picked up an old derv now I'd be eligible for the mooted scrappage scheme...
Money off a new Tesla would be nice ;D
Tesla is going places at the moment. Not sure how long it will last.
At the end of the day it's no more than a glorified milk float.
I believe the P90D is the fastest accelerating four door saloon on the planet
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I wonder if I picked up an old derv now I'd be eligible for the mooted scrappage scheme...
Money off a new Tesla would be nice ;D
Tesla is going places at the moment. Not sure how long it will last.
At the end of the day it's no more than a glorified milk float.
I believe the P90D is the fastest accelerating four door saloon on the planet
Yep.....and the P100D is even quicker, Henry.
Above 60 MPH some cars reel it in though.
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I wonder if I picked up an old derv now I'd be eligible for the mooted scrappage scheme...
Money off a new Tesla would be nice ;D
You jest, the new one is out later this year :y
https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/model3 a grand reserves you one :y
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In fact I didn't jest.
It started with looking at used car PCP. A low mileage P85 (a complete slug at around 5s to 60) is around £600 pcm with the BMW deposit.
Or to put it another way, less than the cost of the BMW + fuel. And with a longer warranty ;D
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The 3 starts at $35,000... might as well go new :y
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True, but in the UK that will be £35,000 (standard USD GBP shafting) and the top range (ie goes furthest, not most toys) will be more than that. Probably close to £40k, without free supercharger access.
Also, I am not 100% sold on the idea of buying a car that I've never sat in or driven. ;D
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True, but in the UK that will be £35,000 (standard USD GBP shafting) and the top range (ie goes furthest, not most toys) will be more than that. Probably close to £40k, without free supercharger access.
Also, I am not 100% sold on the idea of buying a car that I've never sat in or driven. ;D
It will have free supercharger access :y
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True, but in the UK that will be £35,000 (standard USD GBP shafting) and the top range (ie goes furthest, not most toys) will be more than that. Probably close to £40k, without free supercharger access.
Also, I am not 100% sold on the idea of buying a car that I've never sat in or driven. ;D
Relatively affordable.
What sort of performance and range does it offer on it's PP9 batteries?
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9-60 in 5s or under
~300 miles range, depending on exact model
Also, I am not 100% sold on the idea of buying a car that I've never sat in or driven. ;D
Go drive one - the dealers have regular open days and are welcoming of all comers; I rolled up at their fancy hotel venue in t-shirt and jeans and still went out in the P90D (P100D wasn't out yet) with Ludicrous Mode enabled and was encouraged to drive it like I stole it (up to 85mph, demo cars are top speed limited in firmware)..
[edit] Ah, you meant the Model 3. Ignore me ;D ;D
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I think Tesla is more a lifestyle choice than a car.
You live in California in a home designed by you. There are spectacular views of the mountains. You are a self-made man. You have a beautiful sexy girlfriend/wife. You don't eat processed crap. You are not obese. You are politically aware.
You drink more wine than beer. You are interested in the arts. Your new Tesla has it's own charging point.
Tonight you will enjoy an erotic french film. When you return you will slip inside your silky smooth girlfriend/wife. You are not a member of the OOF.
:) :)
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9-60 in 5s or under
~300 miles range, depending on exact model
Also, I am not 100% sold on the idea of buying a car that I've never sat in or driven. ;D
Go drive one - the dealers have regular open days and are welcoming of all comers; I rolled up at their fancy hotel venue in t-shirt and jeans and still went out in the P90D (P100D wasn't out yet) with Ludicrous Mode enabled and was encouraged to drive it like I stole it (up to 85mph, demo cars are top speed limited in firmware)..
[edit] Ah, you meant the Model 3. Ignore me ;D ;D
Official launch is the end of March :y
Tesla staff are salaried, not on commission, so alot less bothersome than regular car dealers. Helped immensely by the fact that the products sell themselves 8)
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9-60 in 5s or under
~300 miles range, depending on exact model
Also, I am not 100% sold on the idea of buying a car that I've never sat in or driven. ;D
Go drive one - the dealers have regular open days and are welcoming of all comers; I rolled up at their fancy hotel venue in t-shirt and jeans and still went out in the P90D (P100D wasn't out yet) with Ludicrous Mode enabled and was encouraged to drive it like I stole it (up to 85mph, demo cars are top speed limited in firmware)..
[edit] Ah, you meant the Model 3. Ignore me ;D ;D
....and your opinion, Aaron?
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Not sold on idea of a Tesla, I don't think battery power is the answer.
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Not sold on idea of a Tesla, I don't think battery power is the answer.
I tend to agree. Battery powered cars have been about since the dawn of time. They are the past not the future.
Also, why does the Tesla need to sound like a milk float?. Surely they could overlay the electrical whine with a nice V8 or V12 soundtrack.
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....and your opinion, Aaron?
The P90D (I haven't driven the poverty Model 3 as it's not out yet as Al points out) is an amazing car, spectacular in just about every way as long as gadgets are your thing as the interior largely consists of a touch screen large enough to be considered a livingroom TV 10 years ago.. beautiful drive, though, effortless, more power than you could shake a stick at.
Reminded me a lot of a friends Porsche 911 (997) in terms of handling, ride and power.
I'd have one in a heartbeat if I could afford and justify the cost of one with Ludicrous Mode, but I can't.
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....and your opinion, Aaron?
The P90D (I haven't driven the poverty Model 3 as it's not out yet as Al points out) is an amazing car, spectacular in just about every way as long as gadgets are your thing as the interior largely consists of a touch screen large enough to be considered a livingroom TV 10 years ago.. beautiful drive, though, effortless, more power than you could shake a stick at.
Reminded me a lot of a friends Porsche 911 (997) in terms of handling, ride and power.
I'd have one in a heartbeat if I could afford and justify the cost of one with Ludicrous Mode, but I can't.
Sure you can :y
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Sure you can :y
I really can't - not while I've got that nearly new oil-burner sitting on the drive ;) Maybe once that goes back.. somehow three more years of it seems a really long time though! I usually change my cars like my underwear, once a year.. ;D
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True, but in the UK that will be £35,000 (standard USD GBP shafting) and the top range (ie goes furthest, not most toys) will be more than that. Probably close to £40k, without free supercharger access.
Also, I am not 100% sold on the idea of buying a car that I've never sat in or driven. ;D
It will have free supercharger access :y
Does that still apply as I thought that was changing in January just gone, or is that just for new orders? :-\ I thought it was something like 400 kWh of free Supercharging credits per year, equivalent to about 1,000 miles of driving, and then you have to pay. :-\
I've probably got the wrong end of the stick as usual. ::)
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Sure you can :y
I really can't - not while I've got that nearly new oil-burner sitting on the drive ;) Maybe once that goes back.. somehow three more years of it seems a really long time though! I usually change my cars like my underwear, once a year.. ;D
Three years of a derv Skoda may be more than you can bear, Aaron. :) ;)
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They're beautifully made too.
Re Supercharging, I wasn't aware of impending restrictions, but I haven't been paying that much attention to them lately :y
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Yes, that plus the fact they will shortly move from nil road tax to £300 ish due to their cost makes a late 2016 one really rather attractive.
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Yes, that plus the fact they will shortly move from nil road tax to £300 ish due to their cost makes a late 2016 one really rather attractive.
I watched a Tesla review on YouTube and the guy called in to the services. He popped it on charge for a top up, went in to take a leak and to buy a drink, returned the his Tesla within fifteen minutes and said it cost him six pounds for that short charge. He explained that the six pounds was the minimum amount that was chargeable and if he'd have stayed for an hour it would have been the same amount. Obviously he'd gone over his allowance for the year already.
He absolutely loved the car though. :y
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Yes, that plus the fact they will shortly move from nil road tax to £300 ish due to their cost makes a late 2016 one really rather attractive.
I thought Electric Vehicles were still going to be zero rated for RFL :-\
EDIT: Just checked... Zero Emission vehicles still qualify for zero RFL but will have to pay the £310 premium for first 5 years if over £40k value.
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They're beautifully made too.
Re Supercharging, I wasn't aware of impending restrictions, but I haven't been paying that much attention to them lately :y
I've read that only current owners get free charging,New customers now have to pay certainly on the smaller car but not sure on the larger ones
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https://www.wired.com/2016/11/tesla-grows-gives-free-charging/
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Borrrrrinnnggg :P
Batteries = the shittest thing about anything that has ever run on batteries. ever. in the world.
Electric heating = stupid
Electric air con = stupid
Cars that charge off an already over stretched national grid = stupid
Basing a whole car round a slow laggy ipad that isn't safe to use while driving = dangerous
Owning a tesla is like owning a PDA in the 90s; everyone else is looking at you and thinking "twunt". ;)
Now man up already and get a V8 and to hell with the consequences :D
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Owning a tesla is like owning a PDA in the 90s; everyone else is looking at you and thinking "twunt". ;)
Excellent analogy. Who here doesn't have what PDAs turned into, a smart phone?
Electric cars aren't a replacement for every I/C engined vehicle, but once(if!) the electricity supply is sorted out will become increasingly more useful.
As for sounding 'better' noise is one of the emissions we should be glad to get rid of. Try a car with no sound deadening, and tell me how desirable it is.
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https://www.wired.com/2016/11/tesla-grows-gives-free-charging/
Seems reasonable enough :y
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I passed by the Tesla showroom in Solihull this evening. Had a sit in the front of a model s for the first time (only ever been in the back of a tesla taxi before). It's a seriously nice place to be.
The fit and finish isn't up to the standard of an s class or 7'er. But better than the F10 5 series I've been in.
I may have to take one for a spin 8)
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I passed by the Tesla showroom in Solihull this evening. Had a sit in the front of a model s for the first time (only ever been in the back of a tesla taxi before). It's a seriously nice place to be.
The fit and finish isn't up to the standard of an s class or 7'er. But better than the F10 5 series I've been in.
I may have to take one for a spin 8)
Euuuk, Touchwood... I've lived in Solihull for 35 of the 43 years of my life (escaped for 8 years in my late 20's...) I could count on one hand how many times I've been into Solihull Town Centre since they turned it into tacky bling world with that vile shopping centre! :-X :(
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Have wiled away many Wednesday mornings at the McDonalds and the cinema :D
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We frequently get the main EV manufacturers in at work to show off their junk. Its mostly easy for them, as we have a lot of the moronic tree huggers at our place. So I usually go out to see them for a bit of baiting....
In principle, the idea is reasonably OK *IF* you live in the same town you work it. But utterly useless for anyone else. The young suites from Tesla are usually the easiest to get chaffing at the bit, as their's is probably the most viable, but still absolutely no good for me once you go beyond the headline figures they tout.
Not yet managed a test drive in any of them, they can't change them fast enough ;D
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Ah but TB, I thought you already had an 'alternative fuel' vehicle, you seem to mention charging one regularly :D
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Ah but TB, I thought you already had an 'alternative fuel' vehicle, you seem to mention charging one regularly :D
If ever it stops phishing down, I'd fill it up again (new charger not waterproof). Needs a top up before its little visit to Nottingham next week.
I guess this is what its like owning EVs. Gay.
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Ah but TB, I thought you already had an 'alternative fuel' vehicle, you seem to mention charging one regularly :D
If ever it stops phishing down, I'd fill it up again (new charger not waterproof). Needs a top up before its little visit to Nottingham next week.
I guess this is what its like owning EVs. Gay.
No.the EV's are probably much faster :-X ;)
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Ah but TB, I thought you already had an 'alternative fuel' vehicle, you seem to mention charging one regularly :D
If ever it stops phishing down, I'd fill it up again (new charger not waterproof). Needs a top up before its little visit to Nottingham next week.
I guess this is what its like owning EVs. Gay.
No.the EV's are probably much faster :-X ;)
And spend less time plugged in! :D
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Vegan? Yes. Gay? No... ::)
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Ah but TB, I thought you already had an 'alternative fuel' vehicle, you seem to mention charging one regularly :D
If ever it stops phishing down, I'd fill it up again (new charger not waterproof). Needs a top up before its little visit to Nottingham next week.
I guess this is what its like owning EVs. Gay.
No.the EV's are probably much faster :-X ;)
And spend less time plugged in! :D
;D ;D ;D
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Ah but TB, I thought you already had an 'alternative fuel' vehicle, you seem to mention charging one regularly :D
If ever it stops phishing down, I'd fill it up again (new charger not waterproof). Needs a top up before its little visit to Nottingham next week.
I guess this is what its like owning EVs. Gay.
No.the EV's are probably much faster :-X ;)
The old dear down the road zimmer frame is faster ;)
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I thought I would redirect this one last time as we have now brought this saga to its conclusion.
Yesterday I signed the transfer documents and the car officially belongs to Rybrook Worcester now. We settled on a full refund less a charge of 14p/mile for my "enjoyment" of the vehicle. Insurance, GAP insurance and other direct costs are being repaid to me by a separate payment from the finance company.
All in all I've lost £700 running the car for 4 months and 5000 miles. So not bad overall. On balance though, I still would have preferred to have a working non-lethal conveyance. ;D
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I thought I would redirect this one last time as we have now brought this saga to its conclusion.
Yesterday I signed the transfer documents and the car officially belongs to Rybrook Worcester now. We settled on a full refund less a charge of 14p/mile for my "enjoyment" of the vehicle. Insurance, GAP insurance and other direct costs are being repaid to me by a separate payment from the finance company.
All in all I've lost £700 running the car for 4 months and 5000 miles. So not bad overall. On balance though, I still would have preferred to have a working non-lethal conveyance. ;D
Right...time for a 30 page thread on your search for a replacement. Let Opti be your guiding light.
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I thought I would redirect this one last time as we have now brought this saga to its conclusion.
Yesterday I signed the transfer documents and the car officially belongs to Rybrook Worcester now. We settled on a full refund less a charge of 14p/mile for my "enjoyment" of the vehicle. Insurance, GAP insurance and other direct costs are being repaid to me by a separate payment from the finance company.
All in all I've lost £700 running the car for 4 months and 5000 miles. So not bad overall. On balance though, I still would have preferred to have a working non-lethal conveyance. ;D
Right...time for a 30 page thread on your search for a replacement. Let Opti be your guiding light.
My choice will be impractical but exciting. :)
I shall leave the choice of dull cars to you.
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What is your budget, Jimmy?
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Glad to hear you got it sorted in the end.
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What is your budget, Jimmy?
Flexible up to about £40k (financed). However all decisions will have to wait. I have a second interview on Tuesday which, if successful would necessitate a company car (probably around 35-40k miles/yr). That being the case I would look at a hybrid of some sort for BIK reasons.
Given my recent experiences I have a different perspective on reliability of cars. So a big part of me just wants to plump for a Range Rover. The 5.0 seems to be available for around £20k with low mileage, seems to make more sense than the 4.4 tdv8
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What is your budget, Jimmy?
Flexible up to about £40k (financed). However all decisions will have to wait. I have a second interview on Tuesday which, if successful would necessitate a company car (probably around 35-40k miles/yr). That being the case I would look at a hybrid of some sort for BIK reasons.
Given my recent experiences I have a different perspective on reliability of cars. So a big part of me just wants to plump for a Range Rover. The 5.0 seems to be available for around £20k with low mileage, seems to make more sense than the 4.4 tdv8
That's like giving up on life. ;)
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What is your budget, Jimmy?
Flexible up to about £40k (financed). However all decisions will have to wait. I have a second interview on Tuesday which, if successful would necessitate a company car (probably around 35-40k miles/yr). That being the case I would look at a hybrid of some sort for BIK reasons.
Given my recent experiences I have a different perspective on reliability of cars. So a big part of me just wants to plump for a Range Rover. The 5.0 seems to be available for around £20k with low mileage, seems to make more sense than the 4.4 tdv8
Not a big fan of the Range Rooney. It is essentially a glorified van with windows. Even with the 5.0 V8 it will still be glacially slow as it weighs about the same as an ocean going liner. :)
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True, then again a don't think I ever really drive anywhere where more performance could be used.
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Is there any need for the Range Rover to have such amazing off-road capabiliity? Wouldn't it be better to ditch the expensive and weighty 4 wheel drive gubbins?
As far as I'm aware Kensington high street and the school run are not that arduous.
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Definitely not. But large load capacity is a must. Saloons are out I'm afraid
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Definitely not. But large load capacity is a must. Saloons are out I'm afraid
I don't believe RR's to be particularly capacious. Not for load capacity.
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Astra estate is very roomy. ;D
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Does it come in VXR?
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Does it come in VXR?
No, but my 1.4 normally aspirated petrol can get to 62mph within 13 seconds or so. What more do you want?
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Does it come in VXR?
How about a VXR Insignia estate? Roomy, nippy, 4WD, relatively inexpensive. :y
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Does it come in VXR?
If you want poke, and an estate, you're limited to the Insignia VXR or the Zafira... that said Vectra C VXR estate would tick every box except the driven wheels... load space gives the Omega a good run for its money :y
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Astra estate is very roomy. ;D
Preferable to a Range Rooney. :)
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I seem to remember there's an elite version with an auto gearbox that doesn't look like the owner likes to copulate in the car parks of fast food outlets. ;D
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I seem to remember there's an elite version with an auto gearbox that doesn't look like the owner likes to copulate in the car parks of fast food outlets. ;D
Yes.....slightly detuned, I think. But still effortless and with plenty of torque.
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I,ve heard that the kerbs around West Kens and Chelski are a little on the high side. ;)
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What is your budget, Jimmy?
Flexible up to about £40k (financed). However all decisions will have to wait. I have a second interview on Tuesday which, if successful would necessitate a company car (probably around 35-40k miles/yr). That being the case I would look at a hybrid of some sort for BIK reasons.
Given my recent experiences I have a different perspective on reliability of cars. So a big part of me just wants to plump for a Range Rover. The 5.0 seems to be available for around £20k with low mileage, seems to make more sense than the 4.4 tdv8
Not a big fan of the Range Rooney. It is essentially a glorified van with windows. Even with the 5.0 V8 it will still be glacially slow as it weighs about the same as an ocean going liner. :)
Having driven the 5.0 supercharged V8, I can confirm it's fairly rapid....... in a straight line.
But yes, boat like in the corners. ;D
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Having driven the 5.0 supercharged V8, I can confirm it's fairly rapid....... in a straight line.
But yes, boat like in the corners. ;D
Only driven 4.2SC ones - both belonging to the dodgy used car dealer ;D. Both quick enough. Brakes are an issue, as well as economy.
Also the rather disappointing BMW powered 4.4, and the hugely slow 3l (BMW) diesel.
I did toy with one last year, but the economy and the shear amount of room it needed on the drive put me off.
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But you can get an Omega rear subframe in one, laying flat
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The sensible choice of course is to do none of those things, but to fit an lpg kit, a better stereo and to buy an investment flat. ;D
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The sensible choice of course is to do none of those things, but to fit an lpg kit, a better stereo and to buy an investment flat. ;D
Good lad :y
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The sensible choice of course is to do none of those things, but to fit an lpg kit, a better stereo and to buy an investment flat. ;D
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I would wait until the consequences of article 50 and the subsequent Brexit negotiations become clear. Anything is possible at the moment, both good and bad. :y
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What is your budget, Jimmy?
Flexible up to about £40k (financed). However all decisions will have to wait. I have a second interview on Tuesday which, if successful would necessitate a company car (probably around 35-40k miles/yr). That being the case I would look at a hybrid of some sort for BIK reasons.
Given my recent experiences I have a different perspective on reliability of cars. So a big part of me just wants to plump for a Range Rover. The 5.0 seems to be available for around £20k with low mileage, seems to make more sense than the 4.4 tdv8
Not a big fan of the Range Rooney. It is essentially a glorified van with windows. Even with the 5.0 V8 it will still be glacially slow as it weighs about the same as an ocean going liner. :)
Having driven the 5.0 supercharged V8, I can confirm it's fairly rapid....... in a straight line.
But yes, boat like in the corners. ;D
Yes. When I say slow I don't mean Omega 2.2 performance. However, the Range Rooney weighs about 2500KG and even with 500 BHP the acceleration will be reduced.
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I find slowish cars that go round corners well much more satisfying than fast cars that wallow about all over the place. For that reason, I'm out. ;)
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My mate had a Range Rover Sport with a supercharged 3ltr V6 and it was a superb car to drive! :y
The load capacity was rubbish though as the back seats didn't fold flat. We went camping and struggled to get 2 blokes, 2 boogie boards, camping equipment, a dog and beer in it! ::)
Although it went like shit off a shovel and went round corners like a go-kart, it did feel a bit like a chav-mobile though.... :-X ;D
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My mate had a Range Rover Sport with a supercharged 3ltr V6 and it was a superb car to drive! :y
The load capacity was rubbish though as the back seats didn't fold flat. We went camping and struggled to get 2 blokes, 2 boogie boards, camping equipment, a dog and beer in it! ::)
Although it went like shit off a shovel and went round corners like a go-kart, it did feel a bit like a chav-mobile though.... :-X ;D
Is this the same engine as used in the F-Type?
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The sensible choice of course is to do none of those things, but to fit an lpg kit, a better stereo and to buy an investment flat. ;D
I would wait until the consequences of article 50 and the subsequent Brexit negotiations become clear. Anything is possible at the moment, both good and bad. :y
Very true, but at the side of a new car, which will lose you (in the case of the BMW) £22k in 4 years, even a real dip in the property market would look interstellar by comparison. I am of the view that people have to live somewhere and 2 bed flats in the 40-60k range will always make a sound 6-8% return, regardless of a lack of capital growth. As long as someone else is paying the mortgage, I'm happy with only keeping about pace with inflation in the long term. :y
Is this the same engine as used in the F-Type?
It is indeed, tbh I hadn't realised that the storage space in the new ones was so poor. The parents' P38 would swallow 2 adults a bathroom suite (and tiles) with ease.
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Leave it till after April 1st. You can pay the new tax rate then.
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Is this the same engine as used in the F-Type?
It is indeed, tbh I hadn't realised that the storage space in the new ones was so poor. The parents' P38 would swallow 2 adults a bathroom suite (and tiles) with ease.
It was the Range Rover Sport I refered to, so not sure what the load capacity of the Full Fat Rangie is. ;)
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Probably around a third greater...
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The sensible choice of course is to do none of those things, but to fit an lpg kit, a better stereo and to buy an investment flat. ;D
I would wait until the consequences of article 50 and the subsequent Brexit negotiations become clear. Anything is possible at the moment, both good and bad. :y
Very true, but at the side of a new car, which will lose you (in the case of the BMW) £22k in 4 years, even a real dip in the property market would look interstellar by comparison. I am of the view that people have to live somewhere and 2 bed flats in the 40-60k range will always make a sound 6-8% return, regardless of a lack of capital growth. As long as someone else is paying the mortgage, I'm happy with only keeping about pace with inflation in the long term. :y
Is this the same engine as used in the F-Type?
It is indeed, tbh I hadn't realised that the storage space in the new ones was so poor. The parents' P38 would swallow 2 adults a bathroom suite (and tiles) with ease.
Ah.....I see a trip to Hull or Middlesbrough in my crystal ball. ;)
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No need to travel so far afield for me. There's a wealth of such property in the Telford, Birmingham and stoke areas.
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One thing is for sure, there is a big lack of petrol Estates with 'normal' engines.
I just watched couple of reviews of the new Galaxy, both of the reviews when it came to engines mentioned and I quote "2 pointless petrols" and two diesels. :-\
So you really are snookered and without choice if you want a 2.0 or even 3.0 petrol cars, no doubt someone will post links to the odd one but the choice is really, really limiting.
Say around £10k, there are 43 Mondeo Estates on AT. Of which just 3 are the older shape, they quickly jump to £15k examples, some with 1.0 Ecoboost engines! :o
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One thing is for sure, there is a big lack of petrol Estates with 'normal' engines.
I just watched couple of reviews of the new Galaxy, both of the reviews when it came to engines mentioned and I quote "2 pointless petrols" and two diesels. :-\
So you really are snookered and without choice if you want a 2.0 or even 3.0 petrol cars, no doubt someone will post links to the odd one but the choice is really, really limiting.
Say around £10k, there are 43 Mondeo Estates on AT. Of which just 3 are the older shape, they quickly jump to £15k examples, some with 1.0 Ecoboost engines! :o
In a car the size and weight of a Mondeo. :o :o :o :o :o
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http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201606295373031?sort=price-asc&maximum-badge-engine-size=1.0&advertising-location=at_cars&postcode=tw89de&radius=1500&model=MONDEO&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&make=FORD&page=1 (http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201606295373031?sort=price-asc&maximum-badge-engine-size=1.0&advertising-location=at_cars&postcode=tw89de&radius=1500&model=MONDEO&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&make=FORD&page=1)
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0 to 60 in ten mins then? Blimey, that seems really under powered. :o
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One thing is for sure, there is a big lack of petrol Estates with 'normal' engines.
I just watched couple of reviews of the new Galaxy, both of the reviews when it came to engines mentioned and I quote "2 pointless petrols" and two diesels. :-\
So you really are snookered and without choice if you want a 2.0 or even 3.0 petrol cars, no doubt someone will post links to the odd one but the choice is really, really limiting.
Say around £10k, there are 43 Mondeo Estates on AT. Of which just 3 are the older shape, they quickly jump to £15k examples, some with 1.0 Ecoboost engines! :o
The 2.5T Volvo unit only made it upto 2009MY in the Mk4. Sales only made up about 2% of Mondeo sales - so it got pulled. :(
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On fifth gear a while back, they put the 1.0 ecoboost focus up against the 1.6 focus from a standing start and it beat it. But I should imagine you'd have to wring it's neck all day long to get any kind of performance out of it. And, of course, your mpg would be terrible, and that's the whole point of such an engine.
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There you go:
https://youtu.be/20FVyIYy3NE
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The 2.0 ecoboost that replaces the 2.5 can be taken to around 220ps with a bluefin remap. Very acceptable in manual and auto guise (I've only ever been in an auto). Problem with the 2.5 is woeful fuel consumption. Low 20's iirc. At that level you may as well have 6 or (preferably) 8 cylinders.
You're right though, you're left hunting the real oddballs like the Chrysler 300c or the superb/Passat 3.6v6 (if you're brace enough).
The 1.0 ecoboost I had in a focus hatch hire car was fun. Not faster than a 1.8 N/A I wouldn't have said, but a lot livelier.
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With tax band of £500 year post 2007, not surprised.
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Probably had more to do with the price tag...
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There you go:
https://youtu.be/20FVyIYy3NE
Bag of nuts and bolts after 30000 miles.
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The 2.0 ecoboost that replaces the 2.5 can be taken to around 220ps with a bluefin remap. Very acceptable in manual and auto guise (I've only ever been in an auto). Problem with the 2.5 is woeful fuel consumption. Low 20's iirc. At that level you may as well have 6 or (preferably) 8 cylinders.
You're right though, you're left hunting the real oddballs like the Chrysler 300c or the superb/Passat 3.6v6 (if you're brace enough).
The 1.0 ecoboost I had in a focus hatch hire car was fun. Not faster than a 1.8 N/A I wouldn't have said, but a lot livelier.
My 2.5T Mondy Tit X estate averaged 30, with more on a run. For some reason the same engine in the Focus ST has a worse mpg then the Mondeo.
Road tax just sneaks in under the 225gm/km, so tax is £285 IIRC.
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One thing is for sure, there is a big lack of petrol Estates with 'normal' engines.
I just watched couple of reviews of the new Galaxy, both of the reviews when it came to engines mentioned and I quote "2 pointless petrols" and two diesels. :-\
So you really are snookered and without choice if you want a 2.0 or even 3.0 petrol cars, no doubt someone will post links to the odd one but the choice is really, really limiting.
Say around £10k, there are 43 Mondeo Estates on AT. Of which just 3 are the older shape, they quickly jump to £15k examples, some with 1.0 Ecoboost engines! :o
Now that the process to make diesels socially unacceptable, that should start to change. Though it'll take 5-10yrs for it to filter through so they become affordable.
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That is considerably better than I was led to believe. :y
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On fifth gear a while back, they put the 1.0 ecoboost focus up against the 1.6 focus from a standing start and it beat it. But I should imagine you'd have to wring it's neck all day long to get any kind of performance out of it. And, of course, your mpg would be terrible, and that's the whole point of such an engine.
But the 1.6 zetec petrol engine is a dog of an engine, has always been naff. Only the biggest Ford fan would ever defend it.
But the little ecoboost is quite good in the Fi-fis, and still usable around town in the shitty focus, but you do have to rev the nads off it all the time. In the Mundano, its just too much to ask.