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[wombatcurry]

Hi,
I have a '97 TD with 300k km on the clock (180k miles).
Until now the only steering work done was a track rod end about 100k km ago (along with tracking etc...). Recently I've begun to feel like the car has started to feel slightly unsure in a straight line and definitely vague in fast corners. Also it has started to vibrate slightly under braking.
The front discs were replaced about 20k km ago, so it's not them.
I started to think that it could be the wishbones - except that I see that people suggest that this causes front tyre wear on the INSIDES - one of mine (and only one) has scrubbed the OUTSIDE of the tyre quite badly in the last 10k km.

Any thoughts where I should be looking please?

Thanks

[Auto Addict]

Outside of the tyre is normally tracking.

Others will know more......

[wombatcurry]

That's what I was thinking - but tracking alone doesnt explain the vibration. Could it be a track rod end?

[sounds2k]

well my old omega had wobble especially when braking from about 50 MPH, I had both track rods changed. A family member has the car now, I drove it at Christmas and the wobble is still there, plus apparently it wore down the outside edge of the front tyres. I'm thinking it needs wishbones and tracking ... changing the track rods made no difference anyway!

[JasonH]

In my case a wobble under hard braking was definitely a single torn wishbone bush.

The torn bush put the tracking out and wore the edge of the tyre.

If the failure causes toe in then the outside edge will wear, if it causes toe out then the inside edge will wear.

[JasonH]

Jack the car up, take the wheels off and have a really good look at the wishbone bushes. A torn bush can be quite hard to spot (until you take the wishbone off).

Another thing to try is with the wheels on the ground put the steering on full lock and look at how the wishbone sits where it is bolted in. Turn full lock the other way and check it looks the same on the other side.

[wombatcurry]

Interesting - thanks for the advice, I got a garage to test drive the car today - they reckon that the steering is OK but that the problem is the shocks.
Whereas I know that the shocks are on the way out, I don't see how this could create the vibration - they couldn't explain it either and simply said that they would have a look when they did the shocks - they then gave me an estimate for changing all 4 shock plus 2 tyres - 1000 Euros (about £650).
I'm starting to think seriously about just blitzing the suspension by changing the wishbones plus the shocks (maybe the drop arms at the same time?) myself. Anyone have any idea how long this would reasonably take?

[JasonH]

I spent ages trying to pinpoint my wobble and steering vagueness so that I would only have to fit the failed part.

One garage told me my wishbones were fine and it was probably warped discs.

Eventually I found the torn bush - and that was the problem.

Wishbones are a major weak point, hence the huge number of aftermarket suppliers.

Do your wishbones first (£20 a side), then get your wheel alignment done and I'd bet it will cure your problem.

[wombatcurry]

Just an update - I've just torn off the left side (drivers side - it's a left-hooker) wishbone - both bushes are well shot - the strut doesn't look too hot either.
I got new Monroe shocks all round for 250 euros in France & new wishbones & drop links from Vaux Centre. Six hours to do one side tonight - hopefully the other side will be quicker tomorrow!  :-/

Will need to get the tracking done - I understand that Wheels in Motion of Watford are well respected - as I'm in Hertfordshire at the moment I'll see if they can help next week.
Anyone know if they will need me to have new tyres fitted to do the tracking (the front left is well scuffed on the outside edge)? - I'd rather get it tracked before fitting new tyres if possible.

[Chopsdad]

I don't get mine re-tracked when changing tyres, so I would say ok to set tracking before tyre change, just keep an eye on the wear of your new rubber  

[Auto Addict]

Just an update - I've just torn off the left side (drivers side - it's a left-hooker) wishbone - both bushes are well shot - the strut doesn't look too hot either.
I got new Monroe shocks all round for 250 euros in France & new wishbones & drop links from Vaux Centre. Six hours to do one side tonight - hopefully the other side will be quicker tomorrow!  :-/

Will need to get the tracking done - I understand that Wheels in Motion of Watford are well respected - as I'm in Hertfordshire at the moment I'll see if they can help next week.
Anyone know if they will need me to have new tyres fitted to do the tracking (the front left is well scuffed on the outside edge)? - I'd rather get it tracked before fitting new tyres if possible.

Well worth a trip to Wheels in Motion.

[Dave-C]

Others may know better,  I've personally always had vague steering with my elite, changed many bit's n' bobs, had it 4 wheel aligned several times over 4 years, still not spot on, BUT, it's not wearing my tyres unevenly any longer, I just put it down to big 16" Pirelli P7's now, can handle that...

The only point I will make is that alignment centres, web sites with experts etc, all stipulate that new tyres are best BEFORE tracking / 4 wheel alignment..  an old trye which has worn to the old tracking settings CAN affect the geometry when resetting... It ideally needs the flat plane of the profile of the tyre to support the vehicle in it's relaxed stance.. Logical, it's been preached to me so much, that I've seen the light, and am now a Tracking Christian..

Av a squint at ths link http://www.familycar.com/alignment.htm

Hope it helps someone..

Dave C

[JasonH]

I'd say it's an interesting balance.

Ideally have the tracking done with the new tyres.... but if you've changed the wishbone or removed the strut the tracking could be miles out and eat a tyre in as few as 100 miles.

Fortunately WIM do a checkup a little while after the first setup. So I'd say old tyres till it's first set up then new tyres before the checkup.

[TheBoy]

Just an update - I've just torn off the left side (drivers side - it's a left-hooker) wishbone - both bushes are well shot - the strut doesn't look too hot either.
I got new Monroe shocks all round for 250 euros in France & new wishbones & drop links from Vaux Centre. Six hours to do one side tonight - hopefully the other side will be quicker tomorrow!  :-/

Will need to get the tracking done - I understand that Wheels in Motion of Watford are well respected - as I'm in Hertfordshire at the moment I'll see if they can help next week.
Anyone know if they will need me to have new tyres fitted to do the tracking (the front left is well scuffed on the outside edge)? - I'd rather get it tracked before fitting new tyres if possible.

Well done on the suspension work so far

I would get a full geometry check done, to make sure its all well and good.

You will need to book with Wheels-In-Motion - give them a ring and speak to Tony.  He is a really genuine guy, I get my MV6 done there, highly recommended (but also obviously busy).  He can advise (truthfully) on tyres as he is part of STS (Stapletons) - a fast fit national tyre place - but don't let that put you off.

http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk

[TheBoy]

Others may know better,  I've personally always had vague steering with my elite, changed many bit's n' bobs, had it 4 wheel aligned several times over 4 years, still not spot on, BUT, it's not wearing my tyres unevenly any longer, I just put it down to big 16" Pirelli P7's now, can handle that...

The only point I will make is that alignment centres, web sites with experts etc, all stipulate that new tyres are best BEFORE tracking / 4 wheel alignment..  an old trye which has worn to the old tracking settings CAN affect the geometry when resetting... It ideally needs the flat plane of the profile of the tyre to support the vehicle in it's relaxed stance.. Logical, it's been preached to me so much, that I've seen the light, and am now a Tracking Christian..

Av a squint at ths link http://www.familycar.com/alignment.htm

Hope it helps someone..

Dave C

Remember, 4 wheel alignment is not a proper geometry check, and I personally only do tracking/4 wheel alignment in emergencies now.  I get a proper geometry check done now.

I cannot really speak for other places, but Wheels-InMotion are truely experts, and can most likely work around what the tyres are like.  In fact, I believe he likes to see the old tyres, as it helps with his diagnosis and understanding of what the car is doing.  He does not necessarily set the car in the middle of manufacturers spec, but often in a way that suits your individual car and driving style...