Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: berserkerboy on 12 April 2015, 14:39:28
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Hi folks.
Downer! ATS tester just failed the old girl.
1. Nearside front from flex brake pipe excessive corrosion. This pipe appears to go to the hydraulic modulator. I have rubbed away the surface rust and there is clean metal underneath. However, I don't suppose the tester will appreciate me telling him it was okay really, in fact I suppose I don't know that it is! Guess I'll have to replace it
2. Rear from flex to caliper brake pipe excessive corrosion on both sides. Haven't had time to look at this yet but suspect the same as above.
3. Offside rear brake hose ferrule excessive corrosion.
4. Then the wishbones need doing as one side has excessive play. Can get lemforder at Rock Auto for about £125 delivered.
So there is a fairly comprehensive guide on the wishbones that I can follow.
The brake lines though. What is the best way of doing these. I'm happy doing my domestic plumbing so can this be much harder? Can I just drain out the existing fluid. Disconnect the corroded pipe sections. Get new ones made up at a motor factor. Reconnect and bleed?
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Might be worth spending a few hours cleaning up the brake line,some mot testers love seeing crude on them,and see it as easy money maker,as the owner dont know any different,
You can buy this ebay item number 261775430855
To get you started if you decide to replace brake lines.
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If that surface rust is superficial, it may just be a question of rubbing down with wire wool and applying grease over the bare metal to protect it - most testers love to see fresh grease as it shows you care!
Ron.
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The same tester had given an advisory on one of the rear sections last year. Despite a rub down and a bit of underseal over it he's obviously decided that isn't good enough. My concern is that the tester will obviously realise what I have done if I just clean it up and think: 'Well f**k you!, I told you this is dangerous' and fail it again. So I think I'll have to replace it.
Anyone any thoughts on whether I can just drain the brake fluid replace the lengths and then bleed, or is it more complicated?
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Take it to another mot centre ;D
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It's only a brake pipe, just change the bloody thing! A couple of quids worth of materials and an hour's (if that) work and you can forget about it forever.
Rusty pipes that suddenly develop a leak are no joke.
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Yep, I agree. 3 sections to do then. As I have to do some dissembling, what is the best way to avoid getting air into the system? I've read that once it is in it's difficult to get out. My main concern is the front section that goes into the ABS unit as there is likely to be quite a lot of fluid lost. Am I worrying needlessly?
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For the last 10 years I`ve used an MOT test centre with no garage/scope to undertake repairs - no complaints - tell you as it is straight, next best could be a council run MOT centre in your area ?
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I used to use an outfit called Just MOT's when we used to live in Sussex. Unfortunately, there is no such business where we live now.
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For the last 10 years I`ve used an MOT test centre with no garage/scope to undertake repairs - no complaints - tell you as it is straight, next best could be a councils
l run MOT centre in your area ?
Always found them a bit to harsh, best going to an old skool,established testing only station.
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Yep, I agree. 3 sections to do then. As I have to do some dissembling, what is the best way to avoid getting air into the system? I've read that once it is in it's difficult to get out. My main concern is the front section that goes into the ABS unit as there is likely to be quite a lot of fluid lost. Am I worrying needlessly?
Yes, you are. Leave the reservoir cap screwed on while you do the work, which will reduce the leak.
Then just bleed it normally, going around the car twice(or as many times as necessary), which is best practice anyway.
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Okay, that's great. Thanks.
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RE: ebay item number 261775430855
Just want to double check before I order this. Is 3/16" pipe and 10mm unions correct? I presume copper will be okay for the next 5 years or so that I'd like to get out of the car, or should I buy some cunifer pipe instead?
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Cunifer would be better :y
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Cunifer would be better :y
It's difficult to buy anything else.
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But the sizes are right?
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Hi folks.
Downer! ATS tester just failed the old girl.
1. Nearside front from flex brake pipe excessive corrosion. This pipe appears to go to the hydraulic modulator. I have rubbed away the surface rust and there is clean metal underneath. However, I don't suppose the tester will appreciate me telling him it was okay really, in fact I suppose I don't know that it is! Guess I'll have to replace it
2. Rear from flex to caliper brake pipe excessive corrosion on both sides. Haven't had time to look at this yet but suspect the same as above.
3. Offside rear brake hose ferrule excessive corrosion.
4. Then the wishbones need doing as one side has excessive play. Can get lemforder at Rock Auto for about £125 delivered.
So there is a fairly comprehensive guide on the wishbones that I can follow.
The brake lines though. What is the best way of doing these. I'm happy doing my domestic plumbing so can this be much harder? Can I just drain out the existing fluid. Disconnect the corroded pipe sections. Get new ones made up at a motor factor. Reconnect and bleed?
I use an easybleeed kit & let the air in a tyre pump the fluid through. the kit I use iv,e had 20yrs so ha been a good buy, :y
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Disaster.
Am doing the brake lines myself. Got the 2 back ones done but when I went to bleed the rear driver side the bleed nipple broke off! This despite plusgas soaking overnight.
What am I to do. New caliper?
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Easy outs? Drills and tap? Then fit new nipple?
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I've a set of these that have never been used. Also have a tap and die set. I'll let you know how I get on. Any idea what size replacement nipple I need to order? M7 or M8 my brother in law thinks.
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Have ordered from brake parts uk. :)
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Bit late now, but I always undo brake nipples very gingerly, always with a deep hex socket and a 'T' handle. If it does not release on gentle torque I hammer around the caliper side by the nipple and try again. This may help before using the easy out tools.
Nipples ofter break off, 'cos they're hollow, so weak, and may have been overtightened by gorilla who last changed the braked fluid. I carry spare calipers off scrapped cars in case.
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It was rooky error with the bleed nipple on the driver rear. As the passenger side had undone okay I was probably a bit too gung ho! The front passenger side was similarly seized. I took a small rotary wire wheel to the base of the nipple and soaked with plus gas. After a while I tried again and it came undone quite easily. Incidently, the brake line that I had to replace at the front which went to the ABS unit was bad news. The 10mm nut was rounding off rather than coming undone. In the end I had to cut the pipe next to the nut and then get a 1/4" socket onto it. Similar situation where it went to the flexi.
So just have to try to easy out the broken rear nipple. Am waiting for the new ones to arrive before I do this.
Have started to do the wishbones. My main concern is removing the HID sensor. This is severely corroded at the fixing to the wishbone. Am I right in thinking that it is the nut underneath the wishbone that needs to be undone? Everything has been sprayed with plus gas as prep for getting the spanners going tomorrow.
Thanks everyone for your input so far.
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Wishbones are off. A lot easier than I had expected. HID sensor was the tricky bit. I found it easiest to disconnect the alloy strut where it connects to the sensor, 2x 10mm nuts clamp it and these where the least corroded nuts of the assembly. With the wishbone on the bench I was then able to remove the bracket.
Should get new wishbones on an overnight tomorrow and new bleed nipple on Tuesday. Hoping the brake lines I have made are good enough. No leakage visible with pressure from the easi bleed but wont know for sure until I stamp on them.
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Putting the new wishbones on. What is the torque value for the rear bolt. Is it the same 120NM as the front?
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Just found this:
Also, has anyone got the torque values for:
- Front and Rear Wishbone Bush
- Steering Knuckle to Suspension Strut
- Pinch Pin Bolt on Steering Knucle
Cheers in advance..
respectively:
120Nm / 89 lbf ft, then 30 degrees, then 15 degrees
90Nm / 66 lbf ft, then 45 degrees, then 15 degrees
100Nm / 74 lbf ft
... all from the book of lies :y
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That is correct, but if NOT fitting polybushes, the wishbone bolts MUST be torqued with the weight of the car on the wheels.
This cannot be stressed loudly enough. ;)
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Okay. I have lemforder from car parts 4 less. Are these polybushed? Also, I know front bolt has a special sequence of tightening with the weight of the car on it, but what about the rear?
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Okay. I have lemforder from car parts 4 less. Are these polybushed? Also, I know front bolt has a special sequence of tightening with the weight of the car on it, but what about the rear?
Not poly bushed, owners have to fit those. They are a separate part to the wishbone involving cutting out the old rubber bush, and fitting the poly which just push in by hand.
Rearward bush can be tightened as is, it doesn't matter.
It's the front oe RUBBER bush that MUST be tightened wheels loaded.
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Okay thanks. Got the driver side wishbone on last night with difficulty. Had to use an old bolt from underneath to align rear bush with holes in frame and then gently tap through. Nothing tightened yet. Thank god the weather has been kind to me as working outside.
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One further thing. Should I get a couple of people to sit in the front seats whilst I tighten, or it the weight of the car enough?
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Weight of the car is fine :y
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Cheers! :)
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Passenger side wishbone went in a lot easier as I was able to get it in much more level by jacking the shock up a bit and out of the way. Only slight concern is that the little blanking plate with the rubber centre fitted to the wishbone keeps falling out. It had fallen out on arrival and I just tapped it in thinking that would be okay. Am thinking that I will need to use some gripfil to hold it in.
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That's the steering bump stop iirc so probably best fitted :-\
Where were the wishbones from? Any idea of make?
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Okay. I have lemforder from car parts 4 less. Are these polybushed? Also, I know front bolt has a special sequence of tightening with the weight of the car on it, but what about the rear?
I assume he has these, Al :y
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I would be quite disappointed if that's the case, especially given their price :o
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Yep definitely Lemforder. Gonna let Car parts 4 less know and will email lemforder as well if they have a customer service department. For the time being will glue them in with gripfill after I have taken some pictures. After all the bother of fitting them I'm reluctant to send them back and the MOT retest is tomorrow.
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Yep definitely Lemforder. Gonna let Car parts 4 less know and will email lemforder as well if they have a customer service department. For the time being will glue them in with gripfill after I have taken some pictures. After all the bother of fitting them I'm reluctant to send them back and the MOT retest is tomorrow.
That be the issue then ::)
Report back with what they say on the subject... :y
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Shit! Trying to get the broken bleed nipple out. Tried to cut a slot with dremel to get a screwdriver on. Wouldn't work even using top torque on lecky driver. Easy out, broke tool in hole. Can't now drill out as easy out will be too hard. New caliper then, should have ordered one up in the first place I guess.
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You have a Dremel? Then the tiny milling cutters might enable you to grind around the easy out if you're careful, lucky and have several of them. If you already have such tools then you have nothing to lose trying them.
I don't own easyouts as I've only ever seen the make the problem worse.
If you have this again then use the Dremel to grind away the inside of the nipple until you just start to see the thread appear. That should loosen what's left enough for you to remove it.
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Got some rear calipers in the shed but think they may be the solid disc variety :-\
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Bleed it via the brake pipe union as a stop gap with the calliper pistons fully retracted
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Thanks all for your advice. Recon calliper off ebay should be here Tuesday. Struggled to find one initially with everyone wanting over £100 or not available. Found a company that had bought redundant stock and don't need mine back £57.20 delivered.
Rock auto co uk had some for about the same price but I had problems with their website when trying to buy the wishbones. Would have tried them otherwise.
Have new bleed nipples for the other callipers from brakes international which I will put on when I bleed the system.
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Passenger side wishbone went in a lot easier as I was able to get it in much more level by jacking the shock up a bit and out of the way. Only slight concern is that the little blanking plate with the rubber centre fitted to the wishbone keeps falling out. It had fallen out on arrival and I just tapped it in thinking that would be okay. Am thinking that I will need to use some gripfil to hold it in.
Well done. I always struggle a bit replacing wishbones, in particular getting in the vertical bolt and popping the ball joint pin into the hub. I found it helped unbolting the drop link and the steering arm from the hub and compressing the spring. Is this normal practice?
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Whatever works Terry.
Personally, just remove the drop link so the roll bar is that little bit higher.
Then place a long extension such as the one in the Halfords kits, on the brake bracket and wedge it against the wheel arch to hold the strut away. Combination of the extension and the steering arm hold the strut out.
Then dress the top and bottom ends of the metal bush spacer on a grinder wheel, just to remove the burs and tidy it up.
I find then the wishbone can be pretty much just placed in. Reach under pop the bolt in, and away you go.
Master talks about pulling the strut away, which pulls the roll bar up if the drop link is attached. But I find it's not quite enough.
Trouble is, undoing the roll bar to drop link nut as pita in itself. So there's agro no matter what ;D
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I'll be doing mine again next week. ::) Not looking forward to it TBH, maybe it will be easier second time round. :-\ ;D
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Whatever works Terry.
Personally, just remove the drop link so the roll bar is that little bit higher.
Then place a long extension such as the one in the Halfords kits, on the brake bracket and wedge it against the wheel arch to hold the strut away. Combination of the extension and the steering arm hold the strut out.
Then dress the top and bottom ends of the metal bush spacer on a grinder wheel, just to remove the burs and tidy it up.
I find then the wishbone can be pretty much just placed in. Reach under pop the bolt in, and away you go.
Master talks about pulling the strut away, which pulls the roll bar up if the drop link is attached. But I find it's not quite enough.
Trouble is, undoing the roll bar to drop link nut as pita in itself. So there's agro no matter what ;D
Thanks Chris, some good tips there. I usually attach a rope to the hub and have a wife heave it out of the way so that I get wishbone in straight. Your extension bar trick sounds good.
By central bush I presume you mean the steel tube in the middle of the rear bush, which tends to snag when inserted in the subframe unless dead level. Great idea to dress the inner edge.
Good luck, Sir Tigger. the more you do the easier it gets!
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Be doing this tomorrow :D but will be easier as the struts are coming out, so wish bones will slot straight in horizontally 8)
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One thing I will be doing differently is that it will be going on concrete blocks rather than stands this time. ::) Which will give me a bit of extra confidence to get in there. ;) ;D
I hate getting under an Omega, although a Fiesta would kill me just as well! ::)
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Concrete blocks ARE NOT REPLACEMENTS FOR AXLE STANDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Don't use them as such.
They are not meant to take the weight of a car distributed over such a small area.
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Concrete blocks ARE NOT REPLACEMENTS FOR AXLE STANDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Don't use them as such.
They are not meant to take the weight of a car distributed over such a small area.
Well that told me! ::) ;D
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Hurrah! Car ready for retest on Friday. Well actually its a complete new MOT test as it's over 10 days since the fail. They better not find anything else! Would like to recommend easibleed for doing the brakes. A bit wary doing the 2 person way with somebody pumping the pedal. I always seem to need a new master cylinder afterwards. Maybe the piston is going further than its being used to and the seals get torn on corrosion? Anyway, get an easibleed.
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Yeh, used an easibleed for years as I've never got anyone to help me! :y
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Concrete blocks ARE NOT REPLACEMENTS FOR AXLE STANDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Don't use them as such.
They are not meant to take the weight of a car distributed over such a small area.
A friend of my dads died when his Rover 3.5 fell on him where he used bricks, instead of axle stands, which broke up while he was underneath it. :( :( :(
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Oh yes! Car passed test with flying colours. Steering feels alot better. Just need to get tracking done. Thanks everyone for your input. :y
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Oh yes! Car passed test with flying colours. Steering feels alot better. Just need to get tracking done. Thanks everyone for your input. :y
(http://images.yuku.com/image/gif/a5126f21c888e21dd7b04899176dd385728b07af_r.gif)
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See the bits on set up. :)
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90492.0
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Concrete blocks ARE NOT REPLACEMENTS FOR AXLE STANDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Don't use them as such.
They are not meant to take the weight of a car distributed over such a small area.
A friend of my dads died when his Rover 3.5 fell on him where he used bricks, instead of axle stands, which broke up while he was underneath it. :( :( :(
I have a good friend who has been in a wheelchair for the last 15 years after a truck fell on him, so believe me I am extremely cautious about getting under any car. ;)
My thoughts about the concrete blocks, were 3 laid flat with a length of 4x2 on top for the car to sit on. The wheel will be under the sill further back and the axle stands will be under there somewhere as well. ::)
Changing wishbones involves a lot of pushing and shoving and I got the willies last time!! :o I'll take the advice on board and the axles stands will take the weight. I'll use the blocks to provide some extra stability/safety instead. :y
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Oh yes! Car passed test with flying colours. Steering feels alot better. Just need to get tracking done. Thanks everyone for your input. :y
(http://images.yuku.com/image/gif/a5126f21c888e21dd7b04899176dd385728b07af_r.gif)
I see what you mean. Looks a bit of a minefield. Local company claim to do 4 wheel tracking but I wonder how well. Think I will do all the suggested items and see how the car feels. No wheels in motion near us SA19.