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[LC0112G]

The real issue is that that driver could be anyone as we've all had a laspe at some point.

Five points is standard fare for Careless Driving, the fine is means tested, so not so relevant, but his counsel was obviously having an off day as you could argue that the lead cyclist caused the accident by stopping so abruptly, ie uncontrolled manner, and the one that fell off was obviously to close to stop safely. Had it been in cars instead of on bikes, there would have been no charges and at best three 50/50 or knock for knock insurance claims.

The article says they plead guilty. There is no 'trial' in those circumstances. You can try and employ a solicitor to try and get the punishment down, but the fees for that are usually more than any saving in the fine, so unless you're trying to avoid a ban it's usually not worth it.

If you plead guilty, you usually get convicted regardless of how 'flimsy' the evidence is.

[TheBoy]

What would the car driver have done if a cyclist had fallen the other way into his path?

I would have run over them, and then reversed back and had another go, just to be sure.

[Raeturbo]

That’s all? You’re softening up mate

[Doctor Gollum]

The real issue is that that driver could be anyone as we've all had a laspe at some point.

Five points is standard fare for Careless Driving, the fine is means tested, so not so relevant, but his counsel was obviously having an off day as you could argue that the lead cyclist caused the accident by stopping so abruptly, ie uncontrolled manner, and the one that fell off was obviously to close to stop safely. Had it been in cars instead of on bikes, there would have been no charges and at best three 50/50 or knock for knock insurance claims.

The article says they plead guilty. There is no 'trial' in those circumstances. You can try and employ a solicitor to try and get the punishment down, but the fees for that are usually more than any saving in the fine, so unless you're trying to avoid a ban it's usually not worth it.

If you plead guilty, you usually get convicted regardless of how 'flimsy' the evidence is.

A Careless Driving charge gets you an appointment with a Magistrate, ergo, you get to state your defence, or at least your mitigation. Whether they take it into account or not is upto them, and given that the driver didn't appear to ease off or brake suggests he was bang to rights as far as his appearance went. And presumably with no dash cam evidence to present his perspective of events all he could do was turn up and say 'I do'.

Also, as this is the interwebs, the charge against him could have been causing the lead cyclist to stop abruptly, rather than because the second one fell over as that was a consequence of the first stopping rather than of the vehicle directly, but the way it was presented in the news was 'Angry farmer knocks woman of her bike' 

I was the third person in as many nights to end up on Beare Green roundabout. The fact that the street lights weren't all working and the lead up signs all covered in moss and the only thing actually marking the roundabout being a solitary cone didn't stop me from getting a CD charge, so definitely got that T Shirt. Oddly enough, Highways agency and Surrey County Council both had to correct their shortcomings and a week before my appearance the street lighting, road markings and signage were all replaced. Now you can see the bloody thing from space

[Doctor Gollum]

That said, iirc, 5 points is the minimum for CD, so fairly lenient in the scheme of things. 

[LC0112G]

The bit of your post I was disagreeing with was...

....but his counsel was obviously having an off day as you could argue....

You don't 'argue' anything if you plead guilty - you are accepting your guilt. The only issue the Mags need to decide is the severity of the punishment.

A Careless Driving charge gets you an appointment with a Magistrate, ergo, you get to state your defence, or at least your mitigation.

if you then plead guilty you don't get to state any defence, and no evidence is presented. If you attempted to enter evidence, the court might well change your plea to not-guilty, and reschedule for a full trial. The guilty plea is simply accepted (except in "capital" cases) and the beak proceeds to pass sentence.

You don't usually need "council" unless you're attempting to influence the severity or type of the punishment (short ban vs points). AIUI Legal aid isn't available so you'll have to pay. The sentencing guidelines are fairly tight. A Band B fine is 75%-125% of weekly wages. However, in England and Wales, court costs and victims surcharges are also added, and it's rare to get out of the Mags without a fine+costs+surcharge approaching £1000

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magistrates-court/item/careless-driving-drive-without-due-care-and-attention-revised-2017/
https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/explanatory-material/magistrates-court/item/fines-and-financial-orders/approach-to-the-assessment-of-fines-2/2-fine-bands/

[Doctor Gollum]

5 points and £400 was my prize.

And yes, I was able to present photographic evidence of the state of the signage etc to the magistrates.

They way it was presented was being found to be guilty by virtue of having done xyz... In my case it was argued that being familiar with the road I should have been able to negotiate it safely, lighting and signage notwithstanding. The were other factors relating to the POS Vectra I was driving but they were subjective and unproven whereas the lighting/signage were demonstrably inadequate. Submitting mitigation isn't technically presenting a defense, but is considered in the context of the hearing.

Ultimately I was guilty of failing to anticipate and negotiate the roundabout and writing the car off, whilst the best outcome for that car, was an expensive exercise.

[LC0112G]

Not sure how long ago your criminal behaviour was , but as I see it....

You were driving on a road you knew, and ended up crashing into a roundabout? Presumably the vast majority of other drivers using that road managed to negotiate it without crashing? If so then it's difficult to argue that the driving standard didn't "fall below the minimum standard expected of a careful driver" which is the test for CD. Hence banged to rights and sensible to plead guilty.

Mags then just have to come up with a sentence. Since you knew the road you have high culpability, hence Category 2, which is 5 or 6 points and a Band B fine. You plead guilty so 5 points.

IMV your 'mitigation' can only make it worse - you knew the road, and the lighting/signage was faulty. A careful driver would slow down in such circumstances to a speed where they could stop in the distance they can see.

So back to the original case - if the Land Rover driver had slowed to walking pace, and been prepared to stop, then that's what a careful driver would be expected to do. They didn't do that, so CD. They should have seen the cyclists, so culpable, so Category 2. Plead guilty so 5 points.

Magistrates courts are a sausage factory - pour the offenders in, turn the handle, find them guilty anyway, and apply the standard fine/penalty.

[Doctor Gollum]

2007, so long done and dusted It was a misty 4am, cruise control on, I hit the brakes at 100 yards and the car didn't slow.

The roundabout entry has a nasty kick about ten metres from the give way, and I elected to keep the car straight and upright rather than force it around the roundabout.

Two people almost crashed whilst we were waiting for Plod etc.

I had the headlights on dipped beam due to oncoming traffic and the mist and the Vectra C headlights are crap, (I had actually had them adjusted at the previous service because I found them so bad. The car was barely 18months old), first warning of the roundabout was the 100 yard sign.

Bottom of the car was all kinds of torn up, but I suspect that I had fractured a brake line bottoming the car on a level crossing returning from a job a couple of hours earlier. Two kerbs and a post later I can't prove that, but the ABS didn't kick in and it didn't lock up and no airbags fired.

I was the third person that week to hit the roundabout.

I remember looking at the trip computer, and whilst it is possible that I may have momentarily nodded off, but I don't think that I had, but when I looked up I happened to see the 100 yard sign.The car should have easily pulled up from that speed, but it didn't, but as the driver of said car, I was ultimately responsible for all of the above, so was technically guilty of failing to negotiate the roundabout.

Point being that in any situation, there's alot more going on than first meets the eye, but ultimately it is the driver that is responsible because you're expected to be aware of, and preempt, the possibility of what might happen if you do/don't do something.