Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Lizzie Zoom]

This morning, after a drive in hot weather, a moaning noise became apparent when turning the steering wheel when parking.

Is this an issue with the power steering gear, something else, or just down to the engine compartment becoming very hot please?

[Nick W]

Strut top bearings.

[Lizzie Zoom]

Strut top bearings.

Thanks Nick

What is the cure please?

[Nick W]

Strut top bearings.

Thanks Nick

What is the cure please?

Any cure involves removing the struts. Then you strip, clean and after inspecting the bearings decide if greasing or replacement is the answer. In reality, you order new ones before even jacking the car up. The usual full suspension rebuild advice applies here, unless your car has had one recently.

[Lizzie Zoom]

Strut top bearings.

Thanks Nick

What is the cure please?

Any cure involves removing the struts. Then you strip, clean and after inspecting the bearings decide if greasing or replacement is the answer. In reality, you order new ones before even jacking the car up. The usual full suspension rebuild advice applies here, unless your car has had one recently.

Thanks again Nick.  Understood

[TheBoy]

Confirm where the noise is coming from, as you can get noise on the column as well. And everywhere else.  If its from the struts, as Nick W says, thats obvious to listen/find

[dave the builder]

Was it a "moaning" noise or a "groaning" noise lizzie     
assume you checked the fluid level ?
you do get a "groaning" noise on full lock anyway 
oh the joys of "complex internet diagnosis"   

[Lizzie Zoom]

Was it a "moaning" noise or a "groaning" noise lizzie     
assume you checked the fluid level ?
you do get a "groaning" noise on full lock anyway 
oh the joys of "complex internet diagnosis"   

What fluid level Dave?

I know nothing when it comes to the steering   Actually it is a moaning noise as well when I turn from lock to lock, and no, there is no sex going on beneath the bonnet!!

Why is nothing just simple and straightforward with the Omega?

[dave the builder]

power steering fluid is DEX 3 IIRC ssame as the ATF (gearbox juice you Lizzie) 

[ronnyd]

Used to have it on my Desmond in very hot weather daytime. Cooler in morning and evening didn't do it. Just assumed it was a 'dry' bearing in the column

[Lizzie Zoom]

power steering fluid is DEX 3 IIRC ssame as the ATF (gearbox juice you Lizzie) 

Sorry Dave to be a typical woman on this, but where does the steering fluid go?

I wondered myself if there was fluid required for the power steering, but I have NEVER put that fluid in wherever it is meant to go!

[Lizzie Zoom]

Used to have it on my Desmond in very hot weather daytime. Cooler in morning and evening didn't do it. Just assumed it was a 'dry' bearing in the column

Thanks Ronny.   I thought there is, must be, a link with the hot weather we have had over the last few days.

[dave the builder]

In the power steering reservoir
same black reservoir  as fitted to all the Carltons you drove and probably never checked 

Youtube video clicky  

the black cap has a DIPSTICK attached when YOU remove it          

[Lizzie Zoom]

STOP PRESS!!!

I have just found pictures on the internet of where the fluid should go.  I cannot believe I have never put any fluid in that black topped thingy!

I will be looking there in the morning.

[Lizzie Zoom]

In the power steering reservoir
same black reservoir  as fitted to all the Carltons you drove and probably never checked 

Youtube video clicky  

the black cap has a DIPSTICK attached when YOU remove it          

Thanks again Dave . No, I never even filled that on my Carlton’s, Senator, nor any Omega.

[VXL V6]

STOP PRESS!!!

I have just found pictures on the internet of where the fluid should go.  I cannot believe I have never put any fluid in that black topped thingy!

I will be looking there in the morning.

If it's never been changed then probably worth running completely new fluid through the system. Easy to do once the front wheels are off the ground so you can wind the steering lock to lock.

Oh and make sure you put Dex III in (getting harder to find now) the later spec fluid will rot the rubber pipes from the inside out.

[Lizzie Zoom]

STOP PRESS!!!

I have just found pictures on the internet of where the fluid should go.  I cannot believe I have never put any fluid in that black topped thingy!

I will be looking there in the morning.

If it's never been changed then probably worth running completely new fluid through the system. Easy to do once the front wheels are off the ground so you can wind the steering lock to lock.

Oh and make sure you put Dex III in (getting harder to find now) the later spec fluid will rot the rubber pipes from the inside out.

Thanks

Can you put the new Dex III, or equilivant, on top of whatever is already in the system to avoid draining?

If not, where do you drain the system please?

[Andy B]

STOP PRESS!!!

I have just found pictures on the internet of where the fluid should go.  I cannot believe I have never put any fluid in that black topped thingy!

I will be looking there in the morning.

 

[Andy B]

STOP PRESS!!!

I have just found pictures on the internet of where the fluid should go.  I cannot believe I have never put any fluid in that black topped thingy!

I will be looking there in the morning.

If it's never been changed then probably worth running completely new fluid through the system. Easy to do once the front wheels are off the ground so you can wind the steering lock to lock.

Oh and make sure you put Dex III in (getting harder to find now) the later spec fluid will rot the rubber pipes from the inside out.

Thanks

Can you put the new Dex III, or equilivant, on top of whatever is already in the system to avoid draining?

If not, where do you drain the system please?

Remove as much as you can from the reservoir .... large syringe/turkey baster/etc .... top up with new. Cycle steering as above. Rinse & repeat .... till the ATF/DEX III looks clean

[Lizzie Zoom]

STOP PRESS!!!

I have just found pictures on the internet of where the fluid should go.  I cannot believe I have never put any fluid in that black topped thingy!

I will be looking there in the morning.

If it's never been changed then probably worth running completely new fluid through the system. Easy to do once the front wheels are off the ground so you can wind the steering lock to lock.

Oh and make sure you put Dex III in (getting harder to find now) the later spec fluid will rot the rubber pipes from the inside out.

Thanks

Can you put the new Dex III, or equilivant, on top of whatever is already in the system to avoid draining?

If not, where do you drain the system please?

Remove as much as you can from the reservoir .... large syringe/turkey baster/etc .... top up with new. Cycle steering as above. Rinse & repeat .... till the ATF/DEX III looks clean

Thanks for that Andy

Now I know what to do

[Lizzie Zoom]

This morning got the car out of the garage and, after checking the fluid level in the black thingy, went out to get the steering fluid, now Dex V1, from my Vx dealership.  No noise coming from steering, but still topped it up to the recommended level.

All down to the heat I believe, but it was a worthwhile exercise as it taught me about the power steering fluid, and also has pointed me in the direction of jacking up the car on another day to check out the steering mechanism as others had suggested.

Thank for all the advice guys!

[TheBoy]

power steering fluid is DEX 3 IIRC ssame as the ATF (gearbox juice you Lizzie) 

I had a feeling, although originally specced as Dexron III, they reverted to Dexron II during manufacture.  It was certain Dex II that went in mine.

[Doctor Gollum]

This morning got the car out of the garage and, after checking the fluid level in the black thingy, went out to get the steering fluid, now Dex V1, from my Vx dealership.  No noise coming from steering, but still topped it up to the recommended level.

All down to the heat I believe, but it was a worthwhile exercise as it taught me about the power steering fluid, and also has pointed me in the direction of jacking up the car on another day to check out the steering mechanism as others had suggested.

Thank for all the advice guys!

Taking the weight off the suspension will reduce any symptoms.

[Andy B]

power steering fluid is DEX 3 IIRC ssame as the ATF (gearbox juice you Lizzie) 

I had a feeling, although originally specced as Dexron III, they reverted to Dexron II during manufacture.  It was certain Dex II that went in mine.

That rings a bell ...

[cam.in.head]

dexron 2 in mine as well.( was also advised that 3 would be ok but nothing else !)
certainly  wouldnt risk  using anything else regardless what any of the muppets in the shops would  tellyou !

[Lizzie Zoom]

All I know is that my trusted Vx parts manager checked my Omega’s specification, and told me that it was now Dex VI that is suitable for it.

[VXL V6]

All I know is that my trusted Vx parts manager checked my Omega’s specification, and told me that it was now Dex VI that is suitable for it.

Your trusted parts manager is wrong. It might have superseded it but it's not right.

[Doctor Gollum]

All I know is that my trusted Vx parts manager checked my Omega’s specification, and told me that it was now Dex VI that is suitable for it.

Your trusted parts manager is wrong. It might have superseded it but it's not right.

I am sure he will voluntarily pay to replace all the seals in the steering system when they magically dissolve one day.

[ronnyd]

I think that you are better off heeding the collective on here Lizzie, rather than a parts guy who has only seen a handful of Omega's in the whole of his working life. 

[dave the builder]

Dexron 3 is readily available in motor factors, ebay even HalFRAUDs sell it

clicky

[TheBoy]

Your local parts manager is talking rubbish.  Earlier specifications are easy to get hold of, even if Vauxhall no longer supply it.

[Lizzie Zoom]

Thanks for all the comments, which I have heeded.

I will be seeking Dex 3 and returning to Vx the Dex VI

[dave the builder]

Thanks for all the comments, which I have heeded.

I will be seeking Dex 3 and returning to Vx the Dex VI

Give him a kick in his mangina for suggesting   Dex VI 

[Doctor Gollum]

Thanks for all the comments, which I have heeded.

I will be seeking Dex 3 and returning to Vx the Dex VI

Including what you have added?

[Lizzie Zoom]

I have noted the comments about using Dexron VI and raised it with the Caffyns main dealer parts manager.

However, he has assisted me for 18 years with GM / Vx parts and is very familiar with the Vx Omega, as many of those used to go through the servicing department, and he had to organise the supply of parts.  He has assured me this morning that Dexron III has been superseded by Dexron VI within the existing, ex GM range, now recommended for my car. He is adamant that this is so, and indeed very suitable for my particular Omega, and even beneficial for it.

I have to say this is backed up by information on line from the stockist of these oils, with comparisons of the two products, such as on takeuoil.com/dexron-3-Vs Dexron 6 who specify that unlike Dexron 3 which " is a fully synthetic fluid", Dexron 6 "is a blended synthetic oil" and ".... "is specifically designed for old GM vehicles".

In another general reference on-line it is stated, in answer to "is dexron VI compatible with dexron III power steering?" , "....Yes. DEXRON VI licensed fluids are fully backward compatible and can be used in all applications covered by earlier GM ATF specifications".

So, although of course I respect the opinions of the Omega specialists on here, I cannot ignore all this latest information about Dexron VI.  I will therefore be draining the power system system of whatever is there (which I am not sure of anyway!) and filling with Dexron VI.

If my rubbers start deteriorating.....oh, well that will be the end of my twenty year old jalopy :'( :'( :'(  

Once again, thanks all for your advice

[TheBoy]

That info is incorrect. TIS itself warns about it.

It was always envisaged that the Dextrin ATFs would be backwards compatible, but that proved problematic in some scenarios, hence specific information when that happened.

Given the easy availability of the correct spec fluid, I personally think you would be radio rental to put in stuff that your parts manager claims is fine, given that I bet he doesn't really know his arse from his elbow, going from previous threads...

But, your car, your choice 

[Doctor Gollum]

I have noted the comments about using Dexron VI and raised it with the Caffyns main dealer parts manager.

However, he has assisted me for 18 years with GM / Vx parts and is very familiar with the Vx Omega, as many of those used to go through the servicing department, and he had to organise the supply of parts.  He has assured me this morning that Dexron III has been superseded by Dexron VI within the existing, ex GM range, now recommended for my car. He is adamant that this is so, and indeed very suitable for my particular Omega, and even beneficial for it.

I have to say this is backed up by information on line from the stockist of these oils, with comparisons of the two products, such as on takeuoil.com/dexron-3-Vs Dexron 6 who specify that unlike Dexron 3 which " is a fully synthetic fluid", Dexron 6 "is a blended synthetic oil" and ".... "is specifically designed for old GM vehicles".

In another general reference on-line it is stated, in answer to "is dexron VI compatible with dexron III power steering?" , "....Yes. DEXRON VI licensed fluids are fully backward compatible and can be used in all applications covered by earlier GM ATF specifications".

So, although of course I respect the opinions of the Omega specialists on here, I cannot ignore all this latest information about Dexron VI.  I will therefore be draining the power system system of whatever is there (which I am not sure of anyway!) and filling with Dexron VI.

If my rubbers start deteriorating.....oh, well that will be the end of my twenty year old jalopy :'( :'( :'(  

Once again, thanks all for your advice

All of which entirely misses the point that Dex 3 not backwards compatible with Dex 2 which is what the Omega reverted to.

The dealer is obviously going to tell you what you want to hear because he sees you as a cash cow. And will gladly sell you a new car when they can no longer get parts for the Omega.

[Lizzie Zoom]

I have noted the comments about using Dexron VI and raised it with the Caffyns main dealer parts manager.

However, he has assisted me for 18 years with GM / Vx parts and is very familiar with the Vx Omega, as many of those used to go through the servicing department, and he had to organise the supply of parts.  He has assured me this morning that Dexron III has been superseded by Dexron VI within the existing, ex GM range, now recommended for my car. He is adamant that this is so, and indeed very suitable for my particular Omega, and even beneficial for it.

I have to say this is backed up by information on line from the stockist of these oils, with comparisons of the two products, such as on takeuoil.com/dexron-3-Vs Dexron 6 who specify that unlike Dexron 3 which " is a fully synthetic fluid", Dexron 6 "is a blended synthetic oil" and ".... "is specifically designed for old GM vehicles".

In another general reference on-line it is stated, in answer to "is dexron VI compatible with dexron III power steering?" , "....Yes. DEXRON VI licensed fluids are fully backward compatible and can be used in all applications covered by earlier GM ATF specifications".

So, although of course I respect the opinions of the Omega specialists on here, I cannot ignore all this latest information about Dexron VI.  I will therefore be draining the power system system of whatever is there (which I am not sure of anyway!) and filling with Dexron VI.

If my rubbers start deteriorating.....oh, well that will be the end of my twenty year old jalopy :'( :'( :'(  

Once again, thanks all for your advice

All of which entirely misses the point that Dex 3 not backwards compatible with Dex 2 which is what the Omega reverted to.

The dealer is obviously going to tell you what you want to hear because he sees you as a cash cow. And will gladly sell you a new car when they can no longer get parts for the Omega.

He knows me well enough to fully comprehend that I am keeping the Omega going because I cannot afford, and do not want to spend, the price of this main dealers cars.  As for the parts; he already cannot supply most of those already, as I have spent less than £15 for parts with them over the last 15 months.

He knows I am no “cash cow!”   If I was I wouldn’t keep the omega, but have a nice electric Range Rover, Jaguar, or even a Tesla.  ;

[Lizzie Zoom]

That info is incorrect. TIS itself warns about it.

It was always envisaged that the Dextrin ATFs would be backwards compatible, but that proved problematic in some scenarios, hence specific information when that happened.

Given the easy availability of the correct spec fluid, I personally think you would be radio rental to put in stuff that your parts manager claims is fine, given that I bet he doesn't really know his arse from his elbow, going from previous threads...

But, your car, your choice 

But that is the problem TB.  What is the correct spec?  Even on the OOF there are differing opinions over Dex II & III.  If Dex VI is so wrong, why does the info on the internet, and in the Vx dealers not say that?

God, I just don’t know what to think now, apart from maybe “Fxxk it”, I’ll just put in what I have just paid for and if I get another year or two out of the old girl I will count myself lucky!

Where’s that lottery ticket?!  Well I have won five lucky dips and a £97 prize over the last 3 months!

So, maybe, maybe!!

[dave the builder]

Dex 3 is available at most places ,except the stealer  who's trying to sell you dex 6 

Dex 3 is even on the shelf at HalFRAUDs

pretty much Everyone is saying use Dex 3 ,on a forum of owners who've been running RWD Vauxhalls re- badged Opels for years  ,

apart from your main stealer ,who doesn't stock Dex 3 

I've used Dex 3 in vauxhalls for years ,

 23 years in the Carlton, senny, omega platform ,without ANY issues .

BUT ... your car ,your choice 

want me to save you some cardboard boxes for the PAS leaks Lizzie           

[Doctor Gollum]

When I win the lottery is not a sound long term plan.

Besides, you asked the question on here, were given two possible answers, with a strong lean towards Dex2 due to long term compatibility issues with Dex3. Then, rather than further exploring the differences with those who suggested them, you went to the dealer who told you a third, completely different, thing and decided to run with that.

Makes you wonder why you bothered asking in the first place. 

[Nick W]

And this is where forums fall down, complicating a simple thing to a stupid degree.


The original specification, Dex II is readily available. If anyone has any doubts about backwards compatibility of later fluids, that's the only one to use. Topping up a steering system is a reason to pay a little more on the unit price for a realistic small quantity.


I never had any problems with Dex III in mine which was straight out of the 200l drum at work - no brand worries, dealer visits or other faffing around. Like you would expect in a professional environment.


The only reason I would buy a universal fluid from a dealer is if the cost was cheaper by a large margin. That's about as likely as Boris winning the Century's Most Honest Man Award. Like many others here, I am dubious about advice from main dealers for a car that's physically at least 20 years old, and has many components that were ancient when it was introduced 10 years before that.


Finally, remote diagnosis should be used to point you in the right direction, and money shouldn't be spent until it's actually confirmed.

[dave the builder]

When I win the lottery is not a sound long term plan.

for the cost of just 4 lotto tickets ,a 1 ltr bottle of Dex 3 can be purchased 

I'm not a gambler-holic (I may have made hat word up  ), betting type ,

if I was , I'd put money (about £8  ) on DEX  3 (as recommended by lots of OOFers ) being a safe bet 

You could speak to OPIE OILS Lizzie , IIRC an OOF recommended supplier   
 

[cam.in.head]

i would definately be taking notice of everyone on here and be replacing the fluid as soon as possible with new dex 11. to be 100% certain of not having any issues later down the line .( dex 111 has also proven to work but dex 11 is the reccommended)
its easy to find and easy to change and you know that it works .
nothing else.
its ok for someone to be saying that the modern stuff is ok but theyre not going to replacing your power steering for you when it goes faulty !

[cam.in.head]

also.
once done i wouldnt be surprised for the groaning to still be there.
dry top mounts or antiroll bar drop links would be my guess ?

[Doctor Gollum]

And if the top mounts are done, expect the rest of the front end to be heading the same way.

[Lizzie Zoom]

Thanks for all the great advice guys!

I have now decided to get Serek to replace the steering fluid with what he decides is best, which no doubt will conform with most of the opinions on here.

At the same time he will be replacing my cam belt, as I know he is a safe pair of hands.

Normally I do not dodge decision making as my professional life relied on that, but when it comes to my Omega..........................well I am going to go chicken and let Serek decide!!

I may well also decide for him to replace the rear brakes whilst he is at it, as the MOT showed they show 75% wear.  So maybe a long day with our friend in Huntingdon!

[STEMO]

I've had many an argument with garages in the past over '75%' pad wear. I get my car MOT'd and serviced at the same time, so if my previous certificates show an annual mileage of circa 20,000, the pads should be changed as soon as they're at 50% or less.
I had an advisory for brake pads at the last MOT but thought the tester was justifying his existence. 8 months later I had metal on metal. I went up and played fûck with them.

[Lizzie Zoom]

I've had many an argument with garages in the past over '75%' pad wear. I get my car MOT'd and serviced at the same time, so if my previous certificates show an annual mileage of circa 20,000, the pads should be changed as soon as they're at 50% or less.
I had an advisory for brake pads at the last MOT but thought the tester was justifying his existence. 8 months later I had metal on metal. I went up and played fûck with them.

Yes Steve, I must say I perhaps rely too heavily on what the MOT report says.  But when I last looked at the rear pads, they had worn down to at least a level I would replace them at.  I have to say the MOT garage, yes that Caffyns again (!! ) , who never get the work from me, also stated correctly that the front pads had just 20% wear.  That I know from looking is true.

But the other MOT garage I used to use, sometimes, told me three years ago all my brake pipes where badly corroded.  I just wiped and oiled the pipes down after that, and the Caffyns MOT has never raised that issue; not one mention of it!

So I know I must be cautious

[TheBoy]

You could speak to OPIE OILS Lizzie , IIRC an OOF recommended supplier 

Not officially*, but a reasonable, if somewhat expensive (which is irrelevant in this case) supplier, but for some cars there still recommend the wrong engine oil!


*They wanted to be by offering OOF a non-public commission on every sale made against our club on their site, which went against all OOF's founding principles, so we decided just to be added to their list of clubs so members could get 10% discount, but OOF would not get commission.

[TheBoy]

I'm impressed you lot manage to get pads to last long enough to last between MOTs. Try harder

[Nick W]

I'm impressed you lot manage to get pads to last long enough to last between MOTs. Try harder

We are not the outliers. Brake pads should last between several MOTs***. Just like tyres, suspension bushes, clutches and driving licences.




*** back when I was doing 30,000miles a year, I was replacing them just after the second MOT. But Capri brakes are a bit small for the car.

[TheBoy]

Are you suggesting, Mr Nick W, that I am special?

[Nick W]

Are you suggesting, Mr Nick W, that I am special?

From the dictionary:


Special - not ordinary or usual.


But wait, a bit further down, we get:


Special - a product that is being sold at a reduced price for a short period.


That's much more like it