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[zirk]

Talking about the little LPG Tigra Tardis 1.4 1998 (Corsa B), failed today.

Exhaust Emissions Lambda reading after 2nd Fast idle outside specific limits.
Exhaust Emissions Hydrocarbon content after 2nd Fast idle excessive.
Exhaust Emissions Carbon Monoxide content after 2nd Fast idle excessive.

So got them to do the Emissions again on LPG, same result would have been a fail, Engine was nice and hot, Cat Back Exhaust replaced last year so thinking not that, got home and had a quick poke about, idles at around 700 to 850, depending weither Gas or Petrol, does seem to slightly miss (lumpy not much) on Petrol but fine on Gas.

So knowing bugger all about these 1.4, this is the plan for the weekend, new plugs, check leads and measure impedance of Coil Pack. New Air Filter and due to hardly any petrol in there some injector treatment. Check for Air leaks and any blocked pipes, check vacum and maybe check or clean ICV ( if it has one).

No access to live data reader, so anything else I can check or do before handing it back for the Mot only to be told its the Cat or sensors?

Cheers Chris.

Edit, forgot to mention its been laid up for a month or 2 with no battery, do these ECU need any relearning for fuel trims etc.

[TheBoy]

If its been run on LPG for any length of time, I'd reset any trims, and run purely on petrol for a few days, and retest

[zirk]

If its been run on LPG for any length of time, I'd reset any trims, and run purely on petrol for a few days, and retest

yea its pretty much 99.9% on LPG, altough Ive just done a edit on the first post about no battery in there for nearly 2 months, I'll give a good blast on the proper stuff aswell, cheers TB.

[dbug]

Yep Italian Tune up required 

[Lazydocker]

Unless there has been a recent change (within the last 6 weeks) then the LPG emissions test is a basic emissions test... No Lambda and much higher tolerances

Present it for mot running on LPG and tell him so, he has to test it to LPG emissions levels

[zirk]

Unless there has been a recent change (within the last 6 weeks) then the LPG emissions test is a basic emissions test... No Lambda and much higher tolerances

Present it for mot running on LPG and tell him so, he has to test it to LPG emissions levels

He did LD, before the Tester wrote the fail, he tested the emissions again on LPG, ie, reset the machine to LPG and let it self calibrate before hand, I was standing next to Him, He even got me to rev the car for a few mins on Gas, and then checked again on idle, and said it would still fail on LPG, didn't no about the no lambder bit though, whats the higher tolerances for CO and HC over petrol?

[Lazydocker]

Unless there has been a recent change (within the last 6 weeks) then the LPG emissions test is a basic emissions test... No Lambda and much higher tolerances

Present it for mot running on LPG and tell him so, he has to test it to LPG emissions levels

He did LD, before the Tester wrote the fail, he tested the emissions again on LPG, ie, reset the machine to LPG and let it self calibrate before hand, I was standing next to Him, He even got me to rev the car for a few mins on Gas, and then checked again on idle, and said it would still fail on LPG, didn't no about the no lambder bit though, whats the higher tolerances for CO and HC over petrol?

A quick google search brought up this site: http://forums.motester.co.uk/forum3/1834.html

And this flow chart

www.motinfo.gov.uk/htdocs/m4s07000306.htm

[zirk]

A quick google search brought up this site: http://forums.motester.co.uk/forum3/1834.html

And this flow chart

www.motinfo.gov.uk/htdocs/m4s07000306.htm

Thanks, interesting reading, seems a big jump, CO from 0.3 to 3.5% and HC 200 to 1200, just had a friendly chat with the MOT man to see if if I can do a test on Tuesday as a No Cat Test and after a good motorway thrashing... Hes response, no, as His emissions Anaylizer packed up this morning... Hmmm. Starting to wonder now.

[zirk]

Right couldn't do a lot over the weekend due to no MOT, phoned the garage got booked in for work, wink, wink and took for a good ragging on petrol only, got back tick over got worse and good low miss fire every 2 secs fine for another 2 secs then repeats if you get mine drift, so its actually got worse now, switch to LPG missing stop but a bit more white smoke at tick over. Rev to 2500 for about 5 mins to keep the Cats warm, then suddenly EML light on (first time), code 0130 Lambda Sensor, so unpluged it no difference (still on Petrol all this time with fan kicking in).

So decided to measure the Lambda o/p on the DVM, about 0.2 Volts, if I pull a vac plpe off same, if I pull spark lead off (running rich?) it goes to arround 0,45 to 0.5, seem to remember these should go up to around 0.8v if it detects unburnt fuel, so the Lambda sort of works??.

So tomorrow, New Lambda??, or other suggestions please.

[TheBoy]

can't really do much useful with a dvm

[zirk]

can't really do much useful with a dvm

Ture enough TB, times like this I wish I never got rid of my old RF Testset, that had a real handy portable decent scope on it. Realy must get some live data reader sorted out for pre ODB.

Just checked mylocal Euro Crap Parts, Lambda Sensor for that is 26 including, might worth the punt to prove the point, assuming I can get the thing off without removing the manifold, its all a bit cramped in there.

Other than that probably looking at diss pak and maybe some leads.

[symes]

wierd how you failed on lpg my mig failed on emissions but mot guy told me to switch to lpg as lambas are off when on lpg??? dont know if hes right -but as your mot guy had problem with machine??? mmmm strange

[Kevin Wood]

wierd how you failed on lpg my mig failed on emissions but mot guy told me to switch to lpg as lambas are off when on lpg dont know if hes right -but as your mot guy had problem with machine??? mmmm strange

Not true.. On a modern car at any rate. Lambda sensors work just the same. MOT limits may be relaxed on LPG though.

[zirk]

wierd how you failed on lpg my mig failed on emissions but mot guy told me to switch to lpg as lambas are off when on lpg dont know if hes right -but as your mot guy had problem with machine??? mmmm strange

Not true.. On a modern car at any rate. Lambda sensors work just the same. MOT limits may be relaxed on LPG though.

My understanding now (thanks to LD) is Petrol Cat test is O2 = 0.3% and HC 200, against an non Cat Test (presented with LPG, O2 3.5% and HC 1200, big difference, just waiting for the MOT Garage to get its Sun tester sorted out before a retest, if I fail on LPG retest then no ideas!!

[zirk]

Starting to get really peed with this now, replaced Lambda, and Air Flow Senso, in case it was throwing the O2 Lambda out, plugs, Air filter etc, cleaned EGR and inlet surrounds, ICV, no leaks another blast down Motorway and through all the gears then striaght on the ramp, CO a lot better than before but still a fail on both petrol and LPG, even as a non cat test.

Run out of ideas now, starting to think temp senors now etc although no issues with heat??

Anyone!

[aaronjb]

What were the CO & HC results on both petrol & gas when it failed?

[henryd]

Starting to get really peed with this now, replaced Lambda, and Air Flow Senso, in case it was throwing the O2 Lambda out, plugs, Air filter etc, cleaned EGR and inlet surrounds, ICV, no leaks another blast down Motorway and through all the gears then striaght on the ramp, CO a lot better than before but still a fail on both petrol and LPG, even as a non cat test.

Run out of ideas now, starting to think temp senors now etc although no issues with heat??

Anyone!

Time to plug it into diagnostics and have a look at live readings,intake air temp sensor and injection temp sensor values may help(gauge sensor is separate)

[zirk]

What were the CO & HC results on both petrol & gas when it failed?

On petrol CO hovering over 0.6, cant remember on LPG will need to ask the question again, but its definitly not right on petrol idle, intermittent low boom, ....boom from exhaust, disapears on gas but then gas produces more white smoke, even though its runs sweet on a run. If I rev to 2500 continuasly, every 10 seconds it drops to 2400 for a couple of seconds then back again, this doesn't happen on Gas.

[zirk]

Starting to get really peed with this now, replaced Lambda, and Air Flow Senso, in case it was throwing the O2 Lambda out, plugs, Air filter etc, cleaned EGR and inlet surrounds, ICV, no leaks another blast down Motorway and through all the gears then striaght on the ramp, CO a lot better than before but still a fail on both petrol and LPG, even as a non cat test.

Run out of ideas now, starting to think temp senors now etc although no issues with heat??

Anyone!

Time to plug it into diagnostics and have a look at live readings,intake air temp sensor and injection temp sensor values may help(gauge sensor is separate)

Hopefully getting that done next Tuesday, full diagnostics check. plus funds are starting to get a bit low on this project now.