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[TheBoy]

I should add, if there was a decent solution, I'd do it to mine. You can never have enough power  [smiley=evil.gif]

[SteveT528]

Merely an example. But you see the point? Obviously the omega is not just a uk model. They would have to include it in the original design.

Yeah see your point    yep it was a worldwide model im sure in freezing cold countrys it is needed. but even in the freezing cold last 2 winters we have had mines been perfect even on the motorway. to be honest removing it hasnt done much, after about 10 mins the throttle body is hot already! these engine do run hot 

[feeutfo]

Merely an example. But you see the point? Obviously the omega is not just a uk model. They would have to include it in the original design.

Yeah see your point    yep it was a worldwide model im sure in freezing cold countrys it is needed. but even in the freezing cold last 2 winters we have had mines been perfect even on the motorway. to be honest removing it hasnt done much, after about 10 mins the throttle body is hot already! these engine do run hot 

Certainly makes removing the plenum easier, those clips are a pita to get to, ESP on the long plenum.

[TheBoy]

Merely an example. But you see the point? Obviously the omega is not just a uk model. They would have to include it in the original design.

Yeah see your point    yep it was a worldwide model im sure in freezing cold countrys it is needed. but even in the freezing cold last 2 winters we have had mines been perfect even on the motorway. to be honest removing it hasnt done much, after about 10 mins the throttle body is hot already! these engine do run hot 

Certainly makes removing the plenum easier, those clips are a pita to get to, ESP on the long plenum.

Particularly idiotish design on the DBW. Non DBW isn't too much of a problem.

[feeutfo]

Merely an example. But you see the point? Obviously the omega is not just a uk model. They would have to include it in the original design.

Yeah see your point    yep it was a worldwide model im sure in freezing cold countrys it is needed. but even in the freezing cold last 2 winters we have had mines been perfect even on the motorway. to be honest removing it hasnt done much, after about 10 mins the throttle body is hot already! these engine do run hot 

Certainly makes removing the plenum easier, those clips are a pita to get to, ESP on the long plenum.

Particularly idiotish design on the DBW. Non DBW isn't too much of a problem.

Yeah but your incredibly biased.

[Kevin Wood]

Remember that the intake air undergoes adiabatic cooling as the pressure drops at the throttle on part throttle. This could cause icing of the throttle if the incoming air is humid. Temperature drops here can be as much as 20 degrees c so freezing air is not a requirement for icing, just humidity, as any pilot will testify.

What effect does the dribble of coolant that flows through the heated throttle body have on the temperature of the huge amount of air passing through it at full power, though? The square root of eff all is my guess, but anyone contemplating serious tuning would know. They'd have measured it and worked out if it's worthwhile.

Ditto the multirams. Those drain pipes have a huge diameter compared to the throttle bodies that follow them. I'm not saying that they aren't at all restrictive, but if they are, it'll only be right at the top end of the power curve, and not worth enough power to forego the considerable increase in torque they provide at low revs. IMHO. (it's the area under the curve that matters) Again, measure it (e.g. before and after on a dyno) and decide if "ripping it out" is a compromise worth making.

IMHO, as soon as you've made a modification, especially one as noticeable as a Mantzel box, you're into "modified" car insurance premiums and potentially finding out to your cost why the manufacturer  spent a considerable amount of money doing what they did as standard. If it's not going to make a significant difference my car is staying standard, thanks. If it did, we'd all do it.

If I were interested in tuning the V6 (and I'm not, mine is a commuting car primarily, and has enough power) I would start with the abysmal exhaust manifolds.  It's a shame there's no off-the-shelf solution to that, but the tuning companies aren't interested in developing anything that takes more than 10 minutes for the average chav to bolt on.

I don't think much on the intake side is worth messing about with until you go to individual throttle bodies.

[aaronjb]

I don't think much on the intake side is worth messing about with until you go to individual throttle bodies.

Now you're talking.. that'd sound lovely (I have my eye on a set for the V8)

Incidentally on the manifold removal - the Omega is by far the easiest intake manifold I've ever had to remove (on the DBW)! The MR2 is impossible without dropping the engine off it's mountings and rotating it (or just plain removing the engine) and the 300ZX required the removal of four tiny coolant hoses buried right under the manifold, two EGR pipes bolted to the underside of the manifold, 6 coilpacks, the injector wiring and all of the IACV pipework - it took me two days the first time! 

Anyway.. back to mantzel resonators and so on..

[Kevin Wood]

http://www.jenvey.co.uk/home/standard-kits/jenvey-dynamics/opel-vx-v6-sfs45-kit-ckvx06

   <Rattles piggy bank>

 

[aaronjb]

http://www.jenvey.co.uk/home/standard-kits/jenvey-dynamics/opel-vx-v6-sfs45-kit-ckvx06

   <Rattles piggy bank>

 

Is that all?  The complete setup for the V8 is about £3500 ex. VAT for the ITBs.. 

[serek]

Although serek was behind me in the queue for the same dyno on the same day, so might be worth seeing what his 3.2 produced

Now, that would be useful.

here my car on RR
standard 3.2 maual
[/URL]

[Kevin Wood]

Although serek was behind me in the queue for the same dyno on the same day, so might be worth seeing what his 3.2 produced

Now, that would be useful.

here my car on RR
standard 3.2 maual
[/URL]

Hmm. Look at the shape of the torque curve.

[2woody]

..... and the valve opens at 4100 rpm - see

[Kevin Wood]

..... and the valve opens at 4100 rpm - see

Yep, clearly something going on there, and the first stage at 3400 is there too, although not as pronounced.

But.. 200 ft.lb available from about 2250 to 5750 RPM with no signs of any flat spots. Compare with the "modified" curve posted earlier (which unfortunately doesn't include the scale) and you can see what the multiram system is doing.

[mr carl]

There is not a lot in it, if anything I would say the on the previous the torque curve is steeper

[Lazydocker]

There is not a lot in it, if anything I would say the on the previous the torque curve is steeper

So less torque low down the rev range

At the end of the day, each to their own. The standard setup is not that restrictive and gives a car that is more driveable in the low RPM range instead of one where all the go is there when revving the nuts off it

I'm happier with the nice, wide torque availability

You might be happier if you have to rev the nuts off it all the time

Each to their own, as I said