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[albitz]

I hope to be ordering a book soon in which the author says that climate change was actually disproved once and for all in 2008,should make interesting reading.
If I come out of my oldtimers induced memory loss and actually remember his name I will edit the post and add it.

[jereboam]

The "climate" is over a billion years old and has cycled through some pretty large extremes, without man's intervention.

The thermometer is less than 450 years old  (Galileo 1593)

Data collection, of any sort, is less than 200 years old

ACCURATE data collection is less than 50 years old

All the talk of warming or not are both different theories .. as the "proof" does not exist... the data from both sides is extrapolated, and any one with any knowledge of analysis will tell you of the dangers inherent in extrapolation .... it is from the misuse of this mathematical tool that the phrase

"Lies, damned lies and statistics"

is supposed to have come.

Unfortunately both sides pounce on any "scrap" of supposed "data" that appears to support their theory, which leaves 90% of folks confused and bewildered .. which has lead, IMHO, to the present apathy. add to that the general lack of trust of Government in general .. and it is easy to see how the present ideas that "global Warming" is a way of raising taxes has become the perception.

Remember .. perception and truth have absolutely nothing to do with each other, and the politicians are only after influencing "perception".

Cynical view I know ....

Absolutely!  Couldn't have put it better myself.     In fact, didn't put it better myself.  

Not in anyway cynical.  What we have been presented with is a scientific discussion led by politicians instead of scientists.  Can't see the wood for the trees, if you ask me.

[Chris_H]

The "climate" is over a billion years old and has cycled through some pretty large extremes, without man's intervention.

The thermometer is less than 450 years old  (Galileo 1593)

Data collection, of any sort, is less than 200 years old

ACCURATE data collection is less than 50 years old

All the talk of warming or not are both different theories .. as the "proof" does not exist... the data from both sides is extrapolated, and any one with any knowledge of analysis will tell you of the dangers inherent in extrapolation .... it is from the misuse of this mathematical tool that the phrase

"Lies, damned lies and statistics"

is supposed to have come.

Unfortunately both sides pounce on any "scrap" of supposed "data" that appears to support their theory, which leaves 90% of folks confused and bewildered .. which has lead, IMHO, to the present apathy. add to that the general lack of trust of Government in general .. and it is easy to see how the present ideas that "global Warming" is a way of raising taxes has become the perception.

Remember .. perception and truth have absolutely nothing to do with each other, and the politicians are only after influencing "perception".

Cynical view I know ....

I think that's the guys down the pub you're talking about there.

[hotel21]

Sad as it may appear to some, I am a paid up member of the DILLIGAF club as regards global warming and side with the member who commented that, when its upto his knees, he will be concerned.

I know thats not really the way to look at things, most times, but, frankly, I feel its been done to death and I glady watch from the sidelines before throwing my cap in any direction whatsoever....

[Shackeng]

Make no mistake our, and the world's climate is going through a dramatic change for whatever reason!

The average temperatures over the last ten years for the UK HAVE risen to the highest levels since records began.  There HAVE been strange climatic events from severe rain falls in the UK to the current freeze across the world.  For instance I left Florida the other day facing below freezing temperatures when the usual average for this time of the year is +73 degrees F.  India and China have suffered very unusual freezing conditions, whilst Austrailia has suffered from very unusual extremes of weather patterns over the last 3 years.

The reasons can be debated, disputed and rubbished as much as people want to, but do not ignore the FACT that the world's weather IS undergoing highly unusual change.  Human beings are suffering from this change, including the inhabitants of thousands of Pacific islands who are witnessing rising sea levels that threaten their very existance NOW as we speak.

Just because we in the UK are currently experiencing an extreme period of freezing conditions does not 'rubbish' any idea of global warming.  That is a fact, and has nothing to do with our current government no matter what you think about their general policies.  The world's governments and the vast majority of the scientific community are in full agreement that the global climate is going through dramatic change and we, the human race, must do everything in our power to help relieve the situation.  It may be too late already and out of our hands........time will tell...........but is "doing nothing" a real and sensible solution?  I think not!

[albitz]

I dont really care what any sciebtist or politician wants to tell us all regarding their theories on this or any other subject.The big problem for us "ordinary people" is the fact that they are using this as an excuse to raise all sorts of taxes to ludicrous levels and freely admit that this process is going to accellerate. Current  and predicted gas/electric/petrol prices probably being the more obvious examples.
Now they are planning to give countless bilions to less wealthy countries to supposedly reduce their carbon footprints, which of course means we will have to pay even more ridiculous levels of taxation, where and when is it ever going to stop ?
Possibly when the Marxist Utopia is achieved and everyone in the world is equally poor ?

[cem_devecioglu]

never seen such a hot winter.. :-?

people may believe whatever they want,  but its very obvious weather is not the same as before.. :-/

today , january 7-8 (passed 24 here) and lunch time it was like spring 10-12 Celcius ..

and definitely no snow here :-?

[Shackeng]

Make no mistake our, and the world's climate is going through a dramatic change for whatever reason!

The average temperatures over the last ten years for the UK HAVE risen to the highest levels since records began.  There HAVE been strange climatic events from severe rain falls in the UK to the current freeze across the world.  For instance I left Florida the other day facing below freezing temperatures when the usual average for this time of the year is +73 degrees F.  India and China have suffered very unusual freezing conditions, whilst Austrailia has suffered from very unusual extremes of weather patterns over the last 3 years.

The reasons can be debated, disputed and rubbished as much as people want to, but do not ignore the FACT that the world's weather IS undergoing highly unusual change.  Human beings are suffering from this change, including the inhabitants of thousands of Pacific islands who are witnessing rising sea levels that threaten their very existance NOW as we speak.

Just because we in the UK are currently experiencing an extreme period of freezing conditions does not 'rubbish' any idea of global warming.  That is a fact, and has nothing to do with our current government no matter what you think about their general policies.  The world's governments and the vast majority of the scientific community are in full agreement that the global climate is going through dramatic change and we, the human race, must do everything in our power to help relieve the situation.  It may be too late already and out of our hands........time will tell...........but is "doing nothing" a real and sensible solution?  I think not!

I entirely agree, while we do not have enough information to determine exactly what the causes are, change to global climate is happening IN PART due to carbon emissions, in particular for example, the inability of ocean shelled creatures to properly form their shells. (http://www.whoi.edu/page.do?pid=7545&tid=282&cid=63809&ct=162).

I take the view that a prudent person takes an umbrella if it might rain, if it rains, he's covered, if it doesn't, no big deal.
Similarly with climate change, if we take precautions now, it might prolong life on this planet, (it is doomed eventually in any case), but if we do nothing, and climate change continues, we will be too late to do anything once we pass the point of no return, whenever that occurs.

[cem_devecioglu]

I dont really care what any sciebtist or politician wants to tell us all regarding their theories on this or any other subject.The big problem for us "ordinary people" is the fact that they are using this as an excuse to raise all sorts of taxes to ludicrous levels and freely admit that this process is going to accellerate. Current  and predicted gas/electric/petrol prices probably being the more obvious examples.
Now they are planning to give countless bilions to less wealthy countries to supposedly reduce their carbon footprints, which of course means we will have to pay even more ridiculous levels of taxation, where and when is it ever going to stop ?
Possibly when the Marxist Utopia is achieved and everyone in the world is equally poor ?

do you generally understand everything from backwards

who said or claim that.. :-?

[cem_devecioglu]

do Marx tell nations to make babies like rabbits and increase in billions so that world sources become completely depleted..

or does he tell, use all fossil fuels and damage the world athmosphere..

[Lizzie_Zoom]

I dont really care what any sciebtist or politician wants to tell us all regarding their theories on this or any other subject.The big problem for us "ordinary people" is the fact that they are using this as an excuse to raise all sorts of taxes to ludicrous levels and freely admit that this process is going to accellerate. Current  and predicted gas/electric/petrol prices probably being the more obvious examples.
Now they are planning to give countless bilions to less wealthy countries to supposedly reduce their carbon footprints, which of course means we will have to pay even more ridiculous levels of taxation, where and when is it ever going to stop ?
Possibly when the Marxist Utopia is achieved and everyone in the world is equally poor ?

Marx was not promoting poverty, but aiming at achieving a society where the 'richness' of individuals was in enjoying their creative freedom, away from the allienating capitalist system which chained them to endless demands on their bodies and souls to produce monetary gain for others. In Marxism no one would be poor, no one rich, but everyone experiencing life to the full with their labours fairly rewarded.  What is wrong with that in theory?  Well only the problem with human nature!

[cem_devecioglu]

I dont really care what any sciebtist or politician wants to tell us all regarding their theories on this or any other subject.The big problem for us "ordinary people" is the fact that they are using this as an excuse to raise all sorts of taxes to ludicrous levels and freely admit that this process is going to accellerate. Current  and predicted gas/electric/petrol prices probably being the more obvious examples.
Now they are planning to give countless bilions to less wealthy countries to supposedly reduce their carbon footprints, which of course means we will have to pay even more ridiculous levels of taxation, where and when is it ever going to stop ?
Possibly when the Marxist Utopia is achieved and everyone in the world is equally poor ?

Marx was not promoting poverty, but aiming at achieving a society where the 'richness' of individuals was in enjoying their creative freedom, away from the allienating capitalist system which chained them to endless demands on their bodies and souls to produce monetary gain for others. In Marxism no one would be poor, no one rich, but everyone experiencing life to the full with their labours fairly rewarded.  What is wrong with that in theory?  Well only the problem with human nature!

good brief Lizzie

[albitz]

I dont need any lectures on Marx believe me,I have red more on him than most,but eventually grew up and realised that ,basically he talked a load of old 'dangle berries'.
If Marxism doesnt create societies where everyone (apart from the elite of course) is pretty much equally poor, then what happened in Cuba, the old Soviet Union,and Mao,s China,not to mention all those little tin pot Marxist dictatorships scattered all over Africa ?
CAPITALISM RULES OK.

[Nickbat]

I dont need any lectures on Marx believe me,I have red more on him than most,but eventually grew up and realised that ,basically he talked a load of old 'dangle berries'.
If Marxism doesnt create societies where everyone (apart from the elite of course) is pretty much equally poor, then what happened in Cuba, the old Soviet Union,and Mao,s China,not to mention all those little tin pot Marxist dictatorships scattered all over Africa ?
CAPITALISM RULES OK.

Agreed. Capitalist countries have the cleanest environments, the highest life expectancy and the lowest birth rates. Go figure, as they say in the States.
 

[Lizzie_Zoom]

I dont need any lectures on Marx believe me,I have red more on him than most,but eventually grew up and realised that ,basically he talked a load of old 'dangle berries'.
If Marxism doesnt create societies where everyone (apart from the elite of course) is pretty much equally poor, then what happened in Cuba, the old Soviet Union,and Mao,s China,not to mention all those little tin pot Marxist dictatorships scattered all over Africa ?
CAPITALISM RULES OK.

As I stated Albs, which surely you already know, human nature is the problem, and those countries you mention never had a true Marxist state, but a corrupted Communism ruled by dictators .