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[JamesV6CDX]

Primarly, for Mr McB, but anyone else feel free to comment/advise...

This may sound like a crazy question, but because you're now an ADI you seem an ideal person to ask. Something is driving me mad on the roads, and I'm struggling to find the best way of dealing with it.

Of course, I'm talking about tailgaiters.

It seems that everywhere I drive, someone is dangerously up my arse. It's been the case for so long, I'm even considering if I need to change my driving style, to try and avoid it.

I don't consider myself a nucience on the road. Although I don't take big risks, neither do I hang about with my driving, I always make my way up to the legal limit as quickly as I can, I never hog overtaking lanes on dual carraigeways, etc etc.

I passed my test first time, did my pass plus,  and my instructor was full of confidence that I was a safe driver - something I try and uphold to this day.

Eg tonight, there was a lorry doing 65mph ish on a dual carraigeway. I decided to pass, so gave a mirror check, lifesaver glance over my shoulder, another mirror check and out I go to the other lane. Nothing was in sight behind me at all, at that point. As soon as I move over, some headlights appear behind me in the distance, and are on top of me before I can blink. Someone behind me, doing breakneck speed, would literally have pushed me off the road had I not taken quick evasive action. Yet.. I was doing 75mph..

On empty A roads .. when something wants to pass me.. (when I'm at the legal limit) .. WHY ON EARTH (!) does it have to come within 6 inches of my rear bumper before pulling out?? I'd only have to tap the brakes, and it would cause carnaige!

Especially when the people hurt could have families, etc, or even worse kids in the cars.. all for the sake of gaining miliseconds..

What's wrong with people

Firstly, I guess I'm looking for some reassurance that it's not me, or anything I'm doing it's the other, full of agression "wrist shakers" on the roads...

And secondly, I'm wondering if I can adjust my driving style to reduce the problem. I feel like a very safe and confident driver, but I must admit I don't feel quite so in control when something is behind me at 60mph so close that I can just see it's headlights...

When I've got the girlfriends little girl in the car, and people drive around us like this compromising her safety for no need, I could literally put them through their own windscreens  :-/

Sad thing is, I've nearly given up driving on more than one occasion, for this reason...

[hotel21]

An observation, not a crit.  

The amount of people who now insist on sitting in lane 2 of a 2 lane or lane 3 of a 3 lane road leaving the lesser ones basically empty really annoy me.  Its as though they are trying to reserve a lane simply for themselves or take it upon themselves to become a self imposed traffic speed limiter.

To emphasise this, it seems that others who, on seeing this, take pleasure in sitting a few thou' from your back bumper as you describe whilst you are travelling at speed limit plus a couple.  Its as though they take umbrage at you obeying the limits.

Personally, I am no 2nd (or 3rd) lane speed vigilante who takes it upon himself to become a 70 mile per hour roadblock to slow down others.  Assuming you are the same, I can only intimate that, if you are in the situation where others are tailgating you at the limit, that perhaps the time taken for the various checks is such that, during this time, their substantially excess speed covers the intervening ground faster than you carry out your manouevre?

Alternatively, when you look rearwards you do simply do not look far enough behind and not see them approaching or have a reduced perception of the speed of vehicles??

I put it down to bad lane discipline in the UK.  Travel a few miles on the European roads network and you soon see that the fast lane/lane 3 is kept for that and drivers readily and quickly return to an inside lane after an overtake, thus leaving the 'fast' lane for what it was designed for.

As said, not a crit, simply looking for a reason why they are overhauling you as quickly as they seem to be.  

[JamesV6CDX]

An observation, not a crit.  

The amount of people who now insist on sitting in lane 2 of a 2 lane or lane 3 of a 3 lane road leaving the lesser ones basically empty really annoy me.  Its as though they are trying to reserve a lane simply for themselves or take it upon themselves to become a self imposed traffic speed limiter.

To emphasise this, it seems that others who, on seeing this, take pleasure in sitting a few thou' from your back bumper as you describe whilst you are travelling at speed limit plus a couple.  Its as though they take umbrage at you obeying the limits.

Personally, I am no 2nd (or 3rd) lane speed vigilante who takes it upon himself to become a 70 mile per hour roadblock to slow down others.  Assuming you are the same, I can only intimate that, if you are in the situation where others are tailgating you at the limit, that perhaps the time taken for the various checks is such that, during this time, their substantially excess speed covers the intervening ground faster than you carry out your manouevre?

Alternatively, when you look rearwards you do simply do not look far enough behind and not see them approaching or have a reduced perception of the speed of vehicles??

I put it down to bad lane discipline in the UK.  Travel a few miles on the European roads network and you soon see that the fast lane/lane 3 is kept for that and drivers readily and quickly return to an inside lane after an overtake, thus leaving the 'fast' lane for what it was designed for.

 

I have considered this point long and hard on many occasions.

Now.. personally, I will not break the speed limit by a big margin. and I NEVER use the 2nd or 3rd lane, unless I'm OVERTAKING.

So here's the scenario. I'm doing 70mph in the inside lane. I want to overtake a lorry doing 60. So, check all is clear, and check nothing is approaching at speed (yes I do have a good perception of how fast traffic approaches)... and move out. If something in the meantime comes up behind me, while I'm alongside the lorry, WHY does it have to come SO CLOSE, before moving to the clear lane 3 to overtake me?

This is my issue, and I think you're missing the point, I never, ever, put myself in a position that would slow down other road users in lane 2 and 3, and I always move back over as soon as it's safe to do so...

I think you're missing my point mate

As said, not a crit, simply looking for a reason why they are overhauling you as quickly as they seem to be.  

[Nickbat]

James, I feel the same as you about these tailgaters, especially when my little ones are in the back seat.

I have heard that some people adjust their windscreen washers so that they cause excess spray over the roof of their car (as well as washing their windscreens of course). When they get a tailgater, they just give their windscreen a wash. I understand that these moronic low-lifes then tend to back off, thus providing their victims enough time to safely move to the inside at the earliest opportunity. These prats (often seen in BMWs) can then get on with the important task of seeking out a location to have a prang.

[JamesV6CDX]

An observation, not a crit.  

The amount of people who now insist on sitting in lane 2 of a 2 lane or lane 3 of a 3 lane road leaving the lesser ones basically empty really annoy me.  Its as though they are trying to reserve a lane simply for themselves or take it upon themselves to become a self imposed traffic speed limiter.

To emphasise this, it seems that others who, on seeing this, take pleasure in sitting a few thou' from your back bumper as you describe whilst you are travelling at speed limit plus a couple.  Its as though they take umbrage at you obeying the limits.

Personally, I am no 2nd (or 3rd) lane speed vigilante who takes it upon himself to become a 70 mile per hour roadblock to slow down others.  Assuming you are the same, I can only intimate that, if you are in the situation where others are tailgating you at the limit, that perhaps the time taken for the various checks is such that, during this time, their substantially excess speed covers the intervening ground faster than you carry out your manouevre?

Alternatively, when you look rearwards you do simply do not look far enough behind and not see them approaching or have a reduced perception of the speed of vehicles??

I put it down to bad lane discipline in the UK.  Travel a few miles on the European roads network and you soon see that the fast lane/lane 3 is kept for that and drivers readily and quickly return to an inside lane after an overtake, thus leaving the 'fast' lane for what it was designed for.

 

I have considered this point long and hard on many occasions.

Now.. personally, I will not break the speed limit by a big margin. and I NEVER use the 2nd or 3rd lane, unless I'm OVERTAKING.

So here's the scenario. I'm doing 70mph in the inside lane. I want to overtake a lorry doing 60. So, check all is clear, and check nothing is approaching at speed (yes I do have a good perception of how fast traffic approaches)... and move out. If something in the meantime comes up behind me, while I'm alongside the lorry, WHY does it have to come SO CLOSE, before moving to the clear lane 3 to overtake me?

This is my issue, and I think you're missing the point, I never, ever, put myself in a position that would slow down other road users in lane 2 and 3, and I always move back over as soon as it's safe to do so...

I think you're missing my point mate

As said, not a crit, simply looking for a reason why they are overhauling you as quickly as they seem to be.  

As an aside, can I add that I've covered well over 100,000 motorway miles, which I think is enough to know what to look for and what not to do.. I complete my lane changes safely but also quickly and efficiently.

[hotel21]

James, I misconstrued your post.

Those who tailgate others are simply impatient imbeciles who are roadgoing bullies.  I have previously taken great delight in dealing with this professionally.

All I can suggest to you is that if you feel vulnerable whilst in the outside lane, then ensure that your stay there is of the shortest duration possible.  Once you resume the inner lane then you have all the breaking distance you require should something arise in front of you, provided you keep your distance, that is!

As for the lane 3 bullies, leave them to it.  I would not countenance 'brake testing' them but have seen it done.  It sometimes has the desired effect, but sometimes causes inattentive lockup/sudden swerve in Jonnie 5 series who then looses it, rolls it and takes out others driving normally in other lanes.  Not pretty and spoils more than one persons day.

Take care.

B

[JamesV6CDX]

James, I misconstrued your post.

Those who tailgate others are simply impatient imbeciles who are roadgoing bullies.  I have previously taken great delight in dealing with this professionally.

All I can suggest to you is that if you feel vulnerable whilst in the outside lane, then ensure that your stay there is of the shortest duration possible.  Once you resume the inner lane then you have all the breaking distance you require should something arise in front of you, provided you keep your distance, that is!

As for the lane 3 bullies, leave them to it.  I would not countenance 'brake testing' them but have seen it done.  It sometimes has the desired effect, but sometimes causes inattentive lockup/sudden swerve in Jonnie 5 series who then looses it, rolls it and takes out others driving normally in other lanes.  Not pretty and spoils more than one persons day.

Take care.

B

While I would love to teach them a lesson, I assure you I don't hit the brakes whilst on any lane of a motorway unless there is a genuine need... because I'm aware of the danger it could cause to lots of innocent parties.

Although, I mist admit, from a motorists point of view, I don't feel that the law does much about tailgaiting.

There are speed camera's all over the place, but to be honest, I think distance is more of an issue than speed, and I don't see it being actively addressed.

[hotel21]

I have no argument for you as regards speed camera numbers versus tailgating numbers and their imbalance.  

I know that in my area, tailgating is dealt with as often as possible, normally by unmarked cars and video evidence.  Possibly the same in your area with the unmarked cars doing what they were intended to do - blend into the background and detect what they can when they can. By doing this, you do not readily see them working?  

If it were a patrol car you see on the hard shoulder with a customer, do you firstly automatically think the customer was speeding or alternatively, that they were upto some other act such as tailgating?

B  

[JamesV6CDX]

I have no argument for you as regards speed camera numbers versus tailgating numbers and their imbalance.  

I know that in my area, tailgating is dealt with as often as possible, normally by unmarked cars and video evidence.  Possibly the same in your area with the unmarked cars doing what they were intended to do - blend into the background and detect what they can when they can. By doing this, you do not readily see them working?  

If it were a patrol car you see on the hard shoulder with a customer, do you firstly automatically think the customer was speeding or alternatively, that they were upto some other act such as tailgating?

B  

I firmly believe, that while they are idiots.. most people tailgaite because they have no true perception of the amount of danger they are causing..

[MaxV6]

I also find tailgating unbelievably stupid.
2 seconds distance is a MINIMUM , not "best practice"

my Solution is largely to get out of the way ASAP..

that doesn't always mean moving over though.....  as you say, in the middle of a normal overtaking manoeuvre it's not always possible,   if the situation allows it, i will accelerate , usually fairly rapidly, THEN get out of the way..

Sometimes  I'll do this as a planned part of the over taking manoeuvre , built in, because i can see, or perhaps just  sense some idiot is not going to pay any attention... and i can plan around that by simply adding the ooomph of the v6 to the equation where necessary.

if the situation doesn't leave room, I back off and sit behind the slower vehicle , say lorry, until such time as it does...


it's easier at night as you can observe the fast moving headlights more easily than in day time when a little black blob can become and audi RS6 in your rear view mirror with alarming rapidity.

I'm USED to seeing people pass me doing over 100

the Bottom end of the M40 is possibly one of the most heavily offended on stretches of Mway i know....

bits of the M25 can be that way also.

The M56 is also "quick" as is the A55 .......  

Just saying " I won't do more than 70" doesn't really cut it in some respects....

bottom line, is that if you're going to move out and overtake, you must plan for the traffic you might encounter... and this means making the overtaking manoeuvre as brief, efficient, and smooth as practicable, allowing for yourself, the slower vehicle, AND the moron coming up behind at 150, to traverse the same bit of space-time, without ever intersecting in that space or time.

or stay home

what irritates me is the people not realising that once you've passed the obstacle, you should pull back in to lane 1

sitting in the middle or fast lane, at ANY speed, is irresponsible..

[STMO123]

If someone tailgates me on the motor way, I dont brake, I simply lift my foot off the gas. Very gently down to 65, then 60, then 50 if necessary. They usually get the message.
Remember, these bullies are the same as any other bullies. When faced down, they back off. They are not going to drive into the back of you for fun. Not unless thet like prison food.

[Ronald_McBurger]

Ok, from a professional driving instructor's perspective, thsi is my advise.

James, in your original post you describe very well the picture. You have done everything correctly to overtake - except you have started speeding (75mph). Then this numpty appears behind you from nowhere.

Try this. Moving out intothe lane exactly the same and then contuinue monitoring the situation behind you whilst you gradually make progress on the lorry at 70mph. Lets just say you are 1/2 way past the lorry and numpty rushes up behind you. He is now a serious danger to you, so get rid of him.

When I used to teach martial arts we used to tell people that their best defence was NOT TO BE THERE. ie, bloke in pub cannot glass you if you have left.

So, you no longer want this muppet behind you. Now you have two choices, a controversial one and the other one. The controversial one is to deem your life to be in danger and thus take whatever action you see fit to save your life, ie speed up to get out the way. Mmmmm, just makes it worse and in fact, although this idiot is dangerous he is not actually ramming you -yet. If he does, that is of course different. The other method is to very gradually come off the gas a bit making you slow down to just below the lorry's speed so you start losing ground on the lorry. When back far enough inicate left and come back in behind the lorry allowing the moron to proceed. You have removed yourself from the danger.

After he has gone, just start again.

I meet dozens of morons a day. I teach my pupils this exact method for dealing with them. No gestures, no looking at the moron, just get yourself away from them.

Same thing in town with a moron too close. Just find a gap on the left, indicate EARLY and slow down gradually and look at the house/building etc on your left NOT the moron. Do not respond to hooting, shouting 'wan*er' or anything.

Always apologise even if you are right. ie, moron rushes up behind you and hoots, just raise you hand politely as if to say 'sorry I am on your road sir'. Defuses the situation very easily. As Hotel21 quiet rightly says, the police will deal with them when they see this behaviour.

I hope that helps. Once you start doing it, it all makes more sense. There are other more advanced techniques, but these ones do work, are used and can save your life. I know it is annoying to give way to these bullies, but imagine this. You are in a Post office queue and some drunk walks in and barges past you to the fornt. What are you going to do? Get stabbed or be 1 minute later getting home? There are a lot of idiots out there. Drunk drivers, drugged up drivers. What about the numpty behind you at 70mph? Same thing, except he HAS got a weapon - the car. IF, and I do mean IF he decides to nudge you at that speed you will be in real trouble, so get rid of him by moving out the way in a calm and controlled manner.

[Martin_1962]

Well I don't hang about and I get tailgated, also I have my own safer way of letting cars in front know I want to get past (on A roads). I sit at the overtaking position ready to accelerate past near to the white line, quite close but nowhere near a TG. Not as intimidating but gets the message through a lot better than hassling. But then I do get regularly a few cars doing half the limit (yes 30 in an open 60 - to work school run mums, on way home just a couple of real slowies).

I was following a not very fast van, safely got past him and when I caught up with traffic he tailgated me, couldn't see the head lights, he was miserable, but I couldn't overtake whats in front, so I have to ignore him.

The previous car I passed started to accelerate as I was passing,  after I pulled in they slowed down, so why accelerate while I was passing?

But remember one thing you are in a big heavy car with very good safety. Remember that when you have a little car up your bum.

Also most tailgaters do not realise they are doing it, and you need to remember this, they were bombing along and suddenly have to slow down, and that is just where they end up. There is no intention to intimidate you or hassle you, they have just shed 15mph or so and have ended up close to you.

If safe I would just ignore them. But try to look at their faces, are they wound up and in a daze, or just relaxed. If they are obviously doing it by habit just keep passing, if looking wound up get out of their way safely and quickly, a good technique is very gentle acceleration to increase the gap, you do not want the gap to shrink. Now the gap should be bigger, as if they are not realising it they won't speed up to match instantly. Failing this I suppose slowing down may work.

But years ago I realised speed uppers and tail gaters do not realise what they are doing.

Overtaking, well I am going to disagree with Finlay here and my technique is what I was told years and years ago and all revolves around Time Exposed to Danger (TED) the main principal is get the overtaking move completed as fast as possible. Police will not pull you for hitting 75 while passing an artic on an A road, as you are driving safely, as long as you slow down afterwards. Unfortunately the new PC way of thinking says do not break the speed limit, they prefer dead drivers to speeding live ones. But safety is paramount and accelerating then slowing down when on your side of the road is the safest way to overtake.

The most dangerous road users are people who try to prevent overtakes, a chap at work has had people swerving across lanes to stop him passing. I have had a very bad swerver myself, the one I had I ended up getting rid of in an interesting way - I used to know a traffic cop and gave him full details of all dangerous practises, swerving, brake testing, and getting aggressive at being overtaken or failing to overtake dangerously.

Here is a list of dangers. Three people including me can testify 1) Swerving, went all over the road trying to stop me - I ended up driving faster and going for it. I at the time had an old banger so he backed off rather than have an accident. 2) Brake testing with no brake lights, good job I was not close, seen by a few people. 3) Try to overtake when the car in front of me was turning right and I had stopped, he had a Diesel. When I started to move he pulled out to go, but I simply left him, oh and double white lines, this is when he got at his worst with other road users, a work mate saw this!

When needed the Police do a good job, dealt with a driver who kept being stupid with another work mate. I gave him a lift in when he forgot he had left his car at work and saw where he meant. Scrapped one complaint - noone did anything work but one was on a blind bend with double white lines. WM had finished his overtake and pulled in safely and this prat had passed him as just above. I have seen people O/T here but I would never do it there.

Sorry I a have rambled but thats life

[JamesV6CDX]

Ok, from a professional driving instructor's perspective, thsi is my advise.

James, in your original post you describe very well the picture. You have done everything correctly to overtake - except you have started speeding (75mph). Then this numpty appears behind you from nowhere.

Try this. Moving out intothe lane exactly the same and then contuinue monitoring the situation behind you whilst you gradually make progress on the lorry at 70mph. Lets just say you are 1/2 way past the lorry and numpty rushes up behind you. He is now a serious danger to you, so get rid of him.

When I used to teach martial arts we used to tell people that their best defence was NOT TO BE THERE. ie, bloke in pub cannot glass you if you have left.

So, you no longer want this muppet behind you. Now you have two choices, a controversial one and the other one. The controversial one is to deem your life to be in danger and thus take whatever action you see fit to save your life, ie speed up to get out the way. Mmmmm, just makes it worse and in fact, although this idiot is dangerous he is not actually ramming you -yet. If he does, that is of course different. The other method is to very gradually come off the gas a bit making you slow down to just below the lorry's speed so you start losing ground on the lorry. When back far enough inicate left and come back in behind the lorry allowing the moron to proceed. You have removed yourself from the danger.


After he has gone, just start again.

I meet dozens of morons a day. I teach my pupils this exact method for dealing with them. No gestures, no looking at the moron, just get yourself away from them.

Same thing in town with a moron too close. Just find a gap on the left, indicate EARLY and slow down gradually and look at the house/building etc on your left NOT the moron. Do not respond to hooting, shouting 'wan*er' or anything.

Always apologise even if you are right. ie, moron rushes up behind you and hoots, just raise you hand politely as if to say 'sorry I am on your road sir'. Defuses the situation very easily. As Hotel21 quiet rightly says, the police will deal with them when they see this behaviour.

I hope that helps. Once you start doing it, it all makes more sense. There are other more advanced techniques, but these ones do work, are used and can save your life. I know it is annoying to give way to these bullies, but imagine this. You are in a Post office queue and some drunk walks in and barges past you to the fornt. What are you going to do? Get stabbed or be 1 minute later getting home? There are a lot of idiots out there. Drunk drivers, drugged up drivers. What about the numpty behind you at 70mph? Same thing, except he HAS got a weapon - the car. IF, and I do mean IF he decides to nudge you at that speed you will be in real trouble, so get rid of him by moving out the way in a calm and controlled manner.

Thanks for the advice Fin.

I feel a little bit like some members on here don't understand the situation.

I do NOT hog lanes, I do NOT try and teach other drivers a lesson, and I do NOT try to enforce speed limits, neither am I a dawdler or an annoyance on the road. I UNDERSTAND the concept of getting out of the way quickly when overtaking, and I ACTIVELY DO THIS, but tailgiters are still present, and the point of this post, is how to best get rid of those

I may have mis-understood this, but who said "saying I won't do over 70 doesn't cut it" and the the only other option is to "stay at home"? That post basically implies that if I don't want to BREAK THE LAW by speeding when overtaking in lane 2, then I should stay home? I'm afraid I can't agree with this. I DO agree that when overtaking you need to to the manouver as fast as you can, and then move over. But it should be as fast as you LEGALLY can.

I've tried overtaking quicker, hitting sport mode and going up past 90mph plus, and to be honest this just increases the danger. People come up behind you just as close and just as quick, regardless of whether you're doing 70 or 100. Not to mention you're at risk of loosing a licence, just to compensate for some idiot who thinks he owns the road.

[x25xe]

James,

Just wanted to add a bit of moral support really - I agree with what you say.  I have done a fair few runs up and down the M40 lately for work.  There has not been one occasion where I have not been tailgated at one point or another.  I drive at around an indicated 75 which in reality is around 70 - 71.  Most of my trip is, I am afraid, in the middle lane, but that is due to the HGVs that are in the inside lane.  I try and read far ahead and get in the correct lane early particularly when HGVs overtake each other.  In this case, I am in the outside lane and will increase my speed to around an indicated 80.

As I am not a professional driver, not an advanced motorist (although I would like to do both) I cannot comment on what higher qualified people have said.  All I can say is that it seems to make sense to me.

It is a big problem and, as already stated, is caused by a general lack of lane disipline.  What I hate the most is when, whilst tailgating you, then then have the cheek to flash as well when they can see that there is a car on your left and you cannot move back into the middle / inside lane!

One other thing - I would ahve thought that it would be obvious to most people that the in the inside lane if something goes wrong with your vehicle you can make it to the hard shoulder with the minimum of fuss.

[MaxV6]

I may have mis-understood this, but who said "saying I won't do over 70 doesn't cut it" and the the only other option is to "stay at home"? That post basically implies that if I don't want to BREAK THE LAW by speeding when overtaking in lane 2, then I should stay home? I'm afraid I can't agree with this. I DO agree that when overtaking you need to to the manouver as fast as you can, and then move over. But it should be as fast as you LEGALLY can.

You're reading the wrong intent into those words James.
I abhor the tailgaters as much as you do... but the sad truth is, that there isn't actually a "get rid of tailgaters" button or manoeuvre that doesn't involve additional risk in some way (unless you have flashing blue lights to put on) .....   and while technically RMcB's passive resistance idea is sound, the risk is still elevated...  it's still more likely to spark a serious road rage incident than the alternative. no matter how much "I'm sorry for being in the way" gesticulating you do..  That doesn't mean i LIKE the alternative, but I hate it less than the prospect of a road rage incident.
The problem is that the morons exist, and there's nothing directly that you or I can actually do about that, the only guaranteed manner of staying completely out of their way is to Stay home...  , which I like even less. (and so should you...  )

I've tried overtaking quicker, hitting sport mode and going up past 90mph plus, and to be honest this just increases the danger. People come up behind you just as close and just as quick, regardless of whether you're doing 70 or 100. Not to mention you're at risk of loosing a licence, just to compensate for some idiot who thinks he owns the road.

This, i'm afraid , implies that you're doing so in a re-active manner...  
it also really doesn't jibe with my experience....  or basic maths...

as i tried to suggest earlier, the entire manoeuvre must be planned with all variables in mind....   if they're still coming up on your tail so fast, then you're simply not planning well enough or, perhaps not taking into account all factors sufficiently.

The law may well state 70MPH as a limit, but additional speed used in the safe overtaking of an obstacle , very very rarely will attract negative attention from any traffic police...  provided it is clearly One overtaking manoeuvre, performed safely and with the speed obviously decreasing to "normal" afterwards, and not simply driving down the fast lane claiming them all to be so...

Traffic police are trained, and intelligent you know....    and observe a driver's behaviour before pulling them in....  

and obviously planned safe use of momentarily excess (but not silly)  speed in temporary overtaking moments is something they are generally fairly happy with... in appropriate circumstances.

Tailgating, excessively slow overtaking, aggression (like sitting in the overtaking spot , flashing your lights... ) and unsafe driving practice, jerky movements, indecision,  lane hogging , excessive and unjustified speed, and a host of others are things they are NOT happy with.

typically, if you cannot plan a manoeuvre that will achieve a safe result with a limit on the  maximum speed of 85-90,  then don't manoeuvre at all. Sit behind the traffic that is holding you up, as it's just not safe to attempt it at present....  any manoeuvre that requires greater speed than that to achieve without being butt tagged by a tailgater, is very probably an unsafe one.



 another thing that annoys me and is unsafe...

people who don't accelerate sufficiently along a slip road to match velocities with the flow, when joining moving traffic.

and indeed come to a full stop towards the end of the slip road instead...

[Kevin Wood]

One point to add about overtaking (thinking more of the single carriageway case here). Why do so many drivers overtake from a position of tailgating? They don't have a good view of the oncoming traffic from this position and can't judge how quickly they'll get past the vehicle ahead. They'll also do all their accelerating whilst exposed to danger on the other side of the road.

I was always taught to start the manoevre from well back, accelerate towards the vehicle in front whilst checking behind me and for oncoming traffic ahead of the vehicle in front. You arrive behind the vehicle with a good idea of the space you have in front, a good idea of how your vehicle is accelerating and therefore a better feel for how quickly you'll get past. You reach a point where you can decide to continue the overtake or drop back armed with much more information, and you probably have an extra 10-20 MPH on the vehicle in front before you're exposed to danger.

I agree with the minimum time of exposure to danger too. If the overtake is obviously going to be a leisurely affair then there's no need to go mad (I.E. very slow vehicle and plenty of space). If you're going to have to break the limit to get it over with then you probably shouldn't have started the manoevre in the first place but facing the oncoming traffic is the wrong time to hesitate or speedo-watch.

There's a lot of envy in some drivers' responses to being overtaken too, IMO.


Kevin

[JamesV6CDX]

I may have mis-understood this, but who said "saying I won't do over 70 doesn't cut it" and the the only other option is to "stay at home"? That post basically implies that if I don't want to BREAK THE LAW by speeding when overtaking in lane 2, then I should stay home? I'm afraid I can't agree with this. I DO agree that when overtaking you need to to the manouver as fast as you can, and then move over. But it should be as fast as you LEGALLY can.

You're reading the wrong intent into those words James.
I abhor the tailgaters as much as you do... but the sad truth is, that there isn't actually a "get rid of tailgaters" button or manoeuvre that doesn't involve additional risk in some way (unless you have flashing blue lights to put on) .....   and while technically RMcB's passive resistance idea is sound, the risk is still elevated...  it's still more likely to spark a serious road rage incident than the alternative. no matter how much "I'm sorry for being in the way" gesticulating you do..  That doesn't mean i LIKE the alternative, but I hate it less than the prospect of a road rage incident.
The problem is that the morons exist, and there's nothing directly that you or I can actually do about that, the only guaranteed manner of staying completely out of their way is to Stay home...  , which I like even less. (and so should you...  )

I've tried overtaking quicker, hitting sport mode and going up past 90mph plus, and to be honest this just increases the danger. People come up behind you just as close and just as quick, regardless of whether you're doing 70 or 100. Not to mention you're at risk of loosing a licence, just to compensate for some idiot who thinks he owns the road.

This, i'm afraid , implies that you're doing so in a re-active manner...  
it also really doesn't jibe with my experience....  or basic maths...

as i tried to suggest earlier, the entire manoeuvre must be planned with all variables in mind....   if they're still coming up on your tail so fast, then you're simply not planning well enough or, perhaps not taking into account all factors sufficiently.

The law may well state 70MPH as a limit, but additional speed used in the safe overtaking of an obstacle , very very rarely will attract negative attention from any traffic police...  provided it is clearly One overtaking manoeuvre, performed safely and with the speed obviously decreasing to "normal" afterwards, and not simply driving down the fast lane claiming them all to be so...

Traffic police are trained, and intelligent you know....    and observe a driver's behaviour before pulling them in....  

and obviously planned safe use of momentarily excess (but not silly)  speed in temporary overtaking moments is something they are generally fairly happy with... in appropriate circumstances.

Tailgating, excessively slow overtaking, aggression (like sitting in the overtaking spot , flashing your lights... ) and unsafe driving practice, jerky movements, indecision,  lane hogging , excessive and unjustified speed, and a host of others are things they are NOT happy with.

typically, if you cannot plan a manoeuvre that will achieve a safe result with a limit on the  maximum speed of 85-90,  then don't manoeuvre at all. Sit behind the traffic that is holding you up, as it's just not safe to attempt it at present....  any manoeuvre that requires greater speed than that to achieve without being butt tagged by a tailgater, is very probably an unsafe one.



 another thing that annoys me and is unsafe...

people who don't accelerate sufficiently along a slip road to match velocities with the flow, when joining moving traffic.

and indeed come to a full stop towards the end of the slip road instead...

I agree for the most mate, and to be honest, I think I do take into account all variables, and drive very safely... but I guess I'm just having a rant, because the sad fact is, however well you drive, you can't drive for the other morons out there

[Nickbat]

One point to add about overtaking (thinking more of the single carriageway case here). Why do so many drivers overtake from a position of tailgating? They don't have a good view of the oncoming traffic from this position and can't judge how quickly they'll get past the vehicle ahead. They'll also do all their accelerating whilst exposed to danger on the other side of the road.

I was always taught to start the manoevre from well back, accelerate towards the vehicle in front whilst checking behind me and for oncoming traffic ahead of the vehicle in front. You arrive behind the vehicle with a good idea of the space you have in front, a good idea of how your vehicle is accelerating and therefore a better feel for how quickly you'll get past. You reach a point where you can decide to continue the overtake or drop back armed with much more information, and you probably have an extra 10-20 MPH on the vehicle in front before you're exposed to danger.

I agree with the minimum time of exposure to danger too. If the overtake is obviously going to be a leisurely affair then there's no need to go mad (I.E. very slow vehicle and plenty of space). If you're going to have to break the limit to get it over with then you probably shouldn't have started the manoevre in the first place but facing the oncoming traffic is the wrong time to hesitate or speedo-watch.

There's a lot of envy in some drivers' responses to being overtaken too, IMO.


Kevin

Much as I enjoy watching motor sport on TV, the fact is that invariably racing drivers wishing to overtake get as near as the car in front in order to "get a tow", as the front vehicle is using its power to punch a hole in the air and the car behind is benefiting from being sucked into that hole and consequently is using less power, so that when the overtake is done, the car behind has an extra reserve of power. At least, that's the way I understand the physics.

Now, sane drivers will understand that this manoeuvre is fine on Hangar Straight, but both pointless and dangerous on a public highway. Nevertheless, it is seen as a "racing" manouevre and therefore appeals to those with excess testosterone.

[Martin_1962]

I am afraid with tailgaters there is little to do, and most of them don't realise they are doing it.

If it is regular with the same cars report them and see what happens

[Ghosts in my machine]

Looks like a controversial subject. [smiley=smiley.gif]. I'll add my essay on the subject.

My method is to use the Windscreen wash technique to get them to back off, thus increasing the gap and therefore reducing the danger. I will often then slow down my rate of overtake to piss them off and take 3 times the distance to pull back over (nothing like a BMW racing back up behind you thinking that he's pushed you out of the way, only for him to find the way is still blocked because you didn't clear the lane as fast as he thought you would!), but that's just me. You don't need to adjust the spray, at speed alot goes over the car anyway.

I'm really not sure about the reduce speed and pull back in. I can see danger in that it is a largely uncommon and therefore unexpected manoeuvre and may cause others (especially the half asleep ones) to take evasive action/brake hard.

Braking is also a very bad idea. If the idiot behind doesn't lock up, the domino effect could cause an accident some distance back.

I have a mate who will throw his sarnies back out of the window at tailgaters (leaves a lovely greasy smear on a windscreen! [smiley=grin.gif]), but he's a big, hard bloke and road rage would have less consequences for him.

With regards to overtaking technique, the comment about taking a run up and not overtaking with a "Box" manoeuvre is good advice. It's always easier to brake and slot back in if you've misjudged it than accelerate out of trouble!

[Ronald_McBurger]

Well. Martin. that is an interesting read. As a bloke I like you, as a driver I think you have some dangerous opinions and ideas about safety.
 

[Ronald_McBurger]

Ghosts....

You may well not agree, but as I was trained by police and military originally and worked both in  Buckingham Palace and Downing Street as a professional government chauffeur as well as driving around many very famous people, like Freddie Mercury, Banarama, Ridley and Tony Scott, George Cole, Wham, former President Jimmy Carter on his UK visit in 1986 and many cabinet ministers,  before becoming a professional driving instructor, I really do know what I am talking about.

Maybe that is why I have never had a road rage incident or an accident in 27 years!

[Auto Addict]

Simple, if you are being tailgated, leave a much bigger gap between you and the car in front.

Then if you have to brake, you can do it gently, giving you a greater stopping distance.

Then (hopefully) the tailgater won't run into the back of you.

[Auto Addict]

Simple, if you are being tailgated, leave a much bigger gap between you and the car in front.

Then if you have to brake, you can do it gently, giving you a greater stopping distance.

Then (hopefully) the tailgater won't run into the back of you.

...also it gives him a gap to get into if he wants to overtake, which would be preferable.

[edwardmickey]

My view is..

You cannot change others' attitudes when on the road - they wrongly think they're right in what they're doing.

When someone else is acting stupid, just let them pass without making any eye contact and certainly no gestures.  Chances of seeing the same driver ever again is remote; why let someone you don't know upset you?

If your driving is of acceptable standard, that's all the matters.  The idiots' driving will catch up with them in time........ it always does!!

[MaxV6]

it's also worthy of note how much this behaviour varies with geographical locations.....


seriously, there's a lot less of it , for example, in the north west and wales, along the A55, M56, and so on, than there is on the M40 ,M4 and M25.

it's not JUST to do with the traffic density, although that is obviously an influential factor

the way stuff happens around by the M25 A1M-M11 section is also different....

certain behaviour patterns are universal, but many of them are largely to do with stress levels and a failure to recognise the warning signs.

[CaptainZok]

As an ADI mate of mine used to say you very rarely get a person admitting they aren't a very good driver, they will say they aren't very good at playing tennis for example but not admit to being a poor driver.

[Nickbat]

As an ADI mate of mine used to say you very rarely get a person admitting they aren't a very good driver, they will say they aren't very good at playing tennis for example but not admit to being a poor driver.

That's right, Capn. I'm brilliant at driving but utter rubbish at tiddlywinks.  

[Varche]

Interesting topic. There are quite a few differences between driving styles in the UK and Spain where I now spend most of my time. Both are bad for tailgating. I believe that in Britain it is mostly aggressive driving by Mr stressed up whereas here it mostly appears just to be how everyone drives. You just have to make allowances for it in order to stay safe.

Everyday you see people who don't indicate on roundabouts or are indicating incorrectly, people actually stopped at the end of slip roads onto busy dual carriageways or motorways waiting for a gap and even people overtaking on the inside on multi lane roads. Spain is a country where few people had a car until relatively recently so driving standards vary hugely.

One area where they do excel though is pulling back into the slow lane after overtaking and you are supposed to indicate when doing so. Traffic moves much  more freely on trunk roads as a result except where you have busy interchanges which just are not as well designed as the roads in the UK e.g. here slip roads are short, up hill or occasionally incredibly located IN tunnels. I guess the roads were not designed for the current levels of traffic. Sound familiar?!

olive        

[Martin_1962]

Well. Martin. that is an interesting read. As a bloke I like you, as a driver I think you have some dangerous opinions and ideas about safety.
 

Is this refering to my minimum TED thing or my treatment of a road rager?

The police reported prat I passed was over 10 years ago. I get very little road rage behaviour towards me now - since I drive a car the police love. (Yes tailgating while I was overtaking).

THe dangerously overtaken workmate was in a small Renault and the blocked workmate was in a BMW.

[Martin_1962]

As an ADI mate of mine used to say you very rarely get a person admitting they aren't a very good driver, they will say they aren't very good at playing tennis for example but not admit to being a poor driver.

I know I am not the worlds best driver, I am too scared of crashing to approach cornering limits and night driving I can't handle oncoming traffic too well (over sensitive eyes).

I would say I was better on a bike than I am in a car, but I haven't ridden a bike for about 13 years.

Defiantely a bit slower than when I had the Sunbeam - I used to thrash that everywhere.

However I have quick reactions and above average observation, and I am brilliant at spacial stuff.

I am impatient and hate traffic jams and I get very ratty at non signaller, wrong laners, and MLOCs

[Taxi_Driver]

Simple, if you are being tailgated, leave a much bigger gap between you and the car in front.

Then if you have to brake, you can do it gently, giving you a greater stopping distance.

Then (hopefully) the tailgater won't run into the back of you.

...also it gives him a gap to get into if he wants to overtake, which would be preferable.

Thats sound advice imo AA  

I do a fair bit of motorway driving and if im overtaking and get a tailgater.....i tend to ignore them and pull over when there is a safe gap to my left to let them pass.

What really gets my goat and sorry James for going a bit off topic of tailgaters but i think its related.

Before I pull out, ie from lane 2 to 3 on a motorway to overtake....i study lane 3 from both my drivers door mirror and rear view mirror ( i look in both as you can get a better judgement of speed of approaching car).....to asertain 1. Are there any cars approaching from behind in lane
3 and 2. If i pull out will they need to slow down ie they are going faster than i intend to in overtaking or i wont be able gain speed fast enough.

If i determine that im going to make a car in lane 3 have to slow then i stay where i am until they have passed.....then i check again and dont move until i think i can without slowing a car down in the 3rd lane.

I think thats fairly sensible driving........so why oh why......do others not do this.....how many times driving down a motorway.....that because a driver on an inside lane.....thinks rh indicator on and out i go!   causing me to brake hard in some cases to avoid me hitting them up their arse!

Sorry, as i said bit off topic.....but thats one of my pet hates on motorways  

[MaxV6]

Before I pull out, ie from lane 2 to 3 on a motorway to overtake....i study lane 3 from both my drivers door mirror and rear view mirror ( i look in both as you can get a better judgement of speed of approaching car).....to asertain 1. Are there any cars approaching from behind in lane
3 and 2. If i pull out will they need to slow down ie they are going faster than i intend to in overtaking or i wont be able gain speed fast enough.
 
If i determine that im going to make a car in lane 3 have to slow then i stay where i am until they have passed.....then i check again and dont move until i think i can without slowing a car down in the 3rd lane.
 

THAT is a neat and concise approximation of what i was trying to say earlier. although it applies equally to moves from lane 1 to 2....



nice one Taxi.

[GaryB]

Years ago, my wife was driving and overtaking a car in lane 2 of a dual carriageway at 70-ish,when some friendly chap came up behind and decided she was not overtaking quickly enough.  I happenned to have my camera (SLR with big telephoto lens) under the seat, so pulled it out and 'framed' the other bloke (too close for his number plate).  As soon as he saw the camera he dropped off to a reasonable distance and we were able to resume our journey in safety (back in lane 1 one the manoeuvre was complete!).

Not always an option, but could still work today if you have a passenger

[JamesV6CDX]

Years ago, my wife was driving and overtaking a car in lane 2 of a dual carriageway at 70-ish,when some friendly chap came up behind and decided she was not overtaking quickly enough.  I happenned to have my camera (SLR with big telephoto lens) under the seat, so pulled it out and 'framed' the other bloke (too close for his number plate).  As soon as he saw the camera he dropped off to a reasonable distance and we were able to resume our journey in safety (back in lane 1 one the manoeuvre was complete!).

Not always an option, but could still work today if you have a passenger

I have seriously thought about a webcam rig-up in the rear window...

[Ghosts in my machine]

If the TV is to believed, it won't be long until insurance companies insist on us having CCTV fitted as a requirement of the policy. Trials have been done in the US and seem to have provided many hours of cheap video footage for "Police Camera Action".

From what I gather, the driver can trigger the unit to record at will. It also records the 30 seconds prior to an accident. As long as you don't need £30,000 worth of kit to download it, it may actually be worth it for the reasons suggested.

     
      
Ghosts....
 
You may well not agree, but as I was trained by police and military originally and worked both in  Buckingham Palace and Downing Street as a professional government chauffeur as well as driving around many very famous people, like Freddie Mercury, Banarama, Ridley and Tony Scott, George Cole, Wham, former President Jimmy Carter on his UK visit in 1986 and many cabinet ministers,  before becoming a professional driving instructor, I really do know what I am talking about. Maybe that is why I have never had a road rage incident or an accident in 27 years!

Ronald, I don't doubt your training and you may well be right. I can only speak from my own experience. I have seen people in front of me doing this manoevure (usually because they have misjudged an overtake) and it does come as an unexpected event (probably because I haven't benefitted from defensive driving training!) and the reaction is usually "What a idiot!". I'd much rather piss off a moron in a BMW tailgating me than some innocent granny driving correctly in the inside lane.