Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Rods2 on 12 December 2018, 07:23:02
-
Press are suggesting so, with 1922 chairman visiting May later today with the good news (for us) I hope. :y :y :y
-
I think there is a good chance she will hang on. When you consider that, unless only one candidate for leader comes forwards, the new leader wouldn't be in place until mid-late January, then the meaningful vote and the leave date would be in jeopardy. It's by no means certain she will be ousted.
Another twist in the saga is that, if it is perceived that Boris will throw his hat into the ring, then a lot of members will back off from voting her out. They don't like her, but Boris is even more unpopular with some.
-
Quι sera, sera... ::)
-
If the woman had any self awareness and dignity she would resign this morning. No shame in admitting that your out of your depth.
-
Gove says he is backing her 100%...
..shes toast. ;D
A lectern has been set up outside number 10, and her Jag has been driven into position just outside of camera shot. Lets hope that's a good sign. :)
-
This will only make sense to anyone who has watched Archer, which I suspect is probably none of you (maybe Al?), anyway:
(https://i.imgflip.com/2orre0.jpg) (https://imgflip.com/i/2orre0)via Imgflip Meme Generator (https://imgflip.com/memegenerator)
-
Cant get Corbyn unless a majority of MP,s vote to have a general election, and he then wins it.
-
Which, at this point, doesn't seem a stretch..
-
Its alright kicking May out but wtf is there to replace her ::)
-
Its alright kicking May out but wtf is there to replace her ::)
I give you the new leader of the Conservative party: https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/photos/the-funniest-photos-of-boris-johnson/
-
Its alright kicking May out but wtf is there to replace her ::)
I give you the new leader of the Conservative party: https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/photos/the-funniest-photos-of-boris-johnson/
we are oppsed :'(
-
Its alright kicking May out but wtf is there to replace her ::)
I give you the new leader of the Conservative party: https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/photos/the-funniest-photos-of-boris-johnson/
He won't be getting my vote, I would rather go for Sajid Javid if there is a contest but I hope she stays in. Nobody else had the cojones to take this thankless job on and now those that should have had the gumption to step up are now sitting on the back benches throwing their teddies out of the pram.
-
Its alright kicking May out but wtf is there to replace her ::)
I give you the new leader of the Conservative party: https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/photos/the-funniest-photos-of-boris-johnson/
He won't be getting my vote, I would rather go for Sajid Javid if there is a contest but I hope she stays in. Nobody else had the cojones to take this thankless job on and now those that should have had the gumption to step up are now sitting on the back benches throwing their teddies out of the pram.
Agreed. Now is not the time for anything more than getting Brexit done... A GE within 18 months would be nowt more than suicide for GB Plc...
-
May has killed her nasty party. Many people, including me, will never vote
Conservative Labour Light while she is still leader. IMO neither of the main parties are electable at the moment so neither will get my vote.
-
But people will vote for them in your absence.
For rhe life of me I cannot understand why a new party did not emerge . A party for properly leaving, making British people proud tobe British, a party tolead Britainout of the morass. Not UKIP , not lib dems. Instead it is just aform of limbo land .
JUst when you thought all twists had been taken, this comes up . Still a long long way to go yet.
No deal, a decent set of negotiaters , a decent set of problem solvers ( like where to source lettuces) is the way forward.
-
Gove says he is backing her 100%...
..shes toast. ;D
A lectern has been set up outside number 10, and her Jag has been driven into position just outside of camera shot. Lets hope that's a good sign. :)
This little shit does smarmy and untrustworthy better than just about anyone. :-\
Exactly what sort of brexiteer is he?
-
What is the point ??
The country voted to leave the EU at a referendum
Both major parties at the General Election manifestoed to Obey that referendum
Parliament decided to leave on the 29 March, with or without a deal
The EU have offered a "deal" that is unacceptable to Parliament, and are refusing to renegotiate.
The only other way is to leave without a deal.
Just how/where/why does a change of leadership change ANY of those facts ???
If the thought process is that the EU will renogiate with a new leader, then dream on .... it won't happen.
-
She'll survive tonight, as it's only 15% of Tory MP's who have put their letters into the 1922 Committee and it's taken events to get this far for them to do that. ::)
If the Tories were serious about changing leader and PM they would have done it back in July when she unveiled the awful Chequers plan to the Cabinet, after going to Berlin to get Angela Merkel's approval and it emerged that the whole thing had been cobbled together behind David Davies's back. ;)
At that point there would have been time for a new PM to change tack and take a different approach before the WA was agreed between Olly Robbins and Michel Barnier. :-X
-
But people will vote for them in your absence.
For rhe life of me I cannot understand why a new party did not emerge . A party for properly leaving, making British people proud tobe British, a party tolead Britainout of the morass. Not UKIP , not lib dems. Instead it is just aform of limbo land .
JUst when you thought all twists had been taken, this comes up . Still a long long way to go yet.
No deal, a decent set of negotiaters , a decent set of problem solvers ( like where to source lettuces) is the way forward.
I'm aware of three new parties that are forming or are formed and like in mainland Europe I expect new parties to rapidly have an effect on the electoral landscape. Both Lab & Cons. will probably split into two parties. The Internet & social media, have changed the political landscape in mainland Europe & I personally expect the same to happen here.
New Parties:
Time Party
CleanBrexit Party
ProsperUK Party
-
True. Here in Andalucia, we have just had elections. A brand new Far Right party called Vox with a one hundred point manifesto managed to take an astonishing 12 seats despite having no campaign material.
-
But people will vote for them in your absence.
For rhe life of me I cannot understand why a new party did not emerge . A party for properly leaving, making British people proud tobe British, a party tolead Britainout of the morass. Not UKIP , not lib dems. Instead it is just aform of limbo land .
JUst when you thought all twists had been taken, this comes up . Still a long long way to go yet.
No deal, a decent set of negotiaters , a decent set of problem solvers ( like where to source lettuces) is the way forward.
I'm aware of three new parties that are forming or are formed and like in mainland Europe I expect new parties to rapidly have an effect on the electoral landscape. Both Lab & Cons. will probably split into two parties. The Internet & social media, have changed the political landscape in mainland Europe & I personally expect the same to happen here.
New Parties:
Time Party
CleanBrexit Party
ProsperUK Party
........and following on from Varche's very valid and true comments how will those so called parties do any good in changing Brexit which 52% voted for and should get on 29th March 2019??
Mrs May who has worked bloody hard against 27 other national leaders to get whatever she has got, and is still trying to negotiate more, proving she is no quitter, going now will do no good whatsoever and in fact damage the very Brexit so many want.
FFS this just goes on and bloody on, so let everyone just retreat from their repetitive views and Let it Be, whatever this is now. Just going over the same old ground is doing no good to anyone, and the treasonable 48 who have pushed in the letters are just out for themselves, not the country or us the people. All they are doing is weakening further the position of our leader for what??!! >:(
-
But people will vote for them in your absence.
For rhe life of me I cannot understand why a new party did not emerge . A party for properly leaving, making British people proud tobe British, a party tolead Britainout of the morass. Not UKIP , not lib dems. Instead it is just aform of limbo land .
JUst when you thought all twists had been taken, this comes up . Still a long long way to go yet.
No deal, a decent set of negotiaters , a decent set of problem solvers ( like where to source lettuces) is the way forward.
I'm aware of three new parties that are forming or are formed and like in mainland Europe I expect new parties to rapidly have an effect on the electoral landscape. Both Lab & Cons. will probably split into two parties. The Internet & social media, have changed the political landscape in mainland Europe & I personally expect the same to happen here.
New Parties:
Time Party
CleanBrexit Party
ProsperUK Party
........and following on from Varche's very valid and true comments how will those so called parties do any good in changing Brexit which 52% voted for and should get on 29th March 2019??
Mrs May who has worked bloody hard against 27 other national leaders to get whatever she has got, and is still trying to negotiate more, proving she is no quitter, going now will do no good whatsoever and in fact damage the very Brexit so many want.
FFS this just goes on and bloody on, so let everyone just retreat from their repetitive views and Let it Be, whatever this is now. Just going over the same old ground is doing no good to anyone, and the treasonable 48 who have pushed in the letters are just out for themselves, not the country or us the people. All they are doing is weakening further the position of our leader for what??!! >:(
We don't know the 'exact figure' Lizzie.
Merely that it has reached 48.......or more. :-* :-* :-*
I tend to agree that replacing TM will make no difference though. The deal is the deal regardless of PM.
-
But people will vote for them in your absence.
For rhe life of me I cannot understand why a new party did not emerge . A party for properly leaving, making British people proud tobe British, a party tolead Britainout of the morass. Not UKIP , not lib dems. Instead it is just aform of limbo land .
JUst when you thought all twists had been taken, this comes up . Still a long long way to go yet.
No deal, a decent set of negotiaters , a decent set of problem solvers ( like where to source lettuces) is the way forward.
I'm aware of three new parties that are forming or are formed and like in mainland Europe I expect new parties to rapidly have an effect on the electoral landscape. Both Lab & Cons. will probably split into two parties. The Internet & social media, have changed the political landscape in mainland Europe & I personally expect the same to happen here.
New Parties:
Time Party
CleanBrexit Party
ProsperUK Party
........and following on from Varche's very valid and true comments how will those so called parties do any good in changing Brexit which 52% voted for and should get on 29th March 2019??
Mrs May who has worked bloody hard against 27 other national leaders to get whatever she has got, and is still trying to negotiate more, proving she is no quitter, going now will do no good whatsoever and in fact damage the very Brexit so many want.
FFS this just goes on and bloody on, so let everyone just retreat from their repetitive views and Let it Be, whatever this is now. Just going over the same old ground is doing no good to anyone, and the treasonable 48 who have pushed in the letters are just out for themselves, not the country or us the people. All they are doing is weakening further the position of our leader for what??!! >:(
There is a difference between working smartly and hard. I agree she has worked hard but would suggest not smartly. If she was smart she would not be in this position now with the truly ridiculous backstop. Therein lies the problem.
I was reading yesterday that political corruption costs Europe an astonishing 900 million euros a year. Britain has corruption but isn't anywhere near the other countries including Spain of course and surprisingly Germany.
-
But people will vote for them in your absence.
For rhe life of me I cannot understand why a new party did not emerge . A party for properly leaving, making British people proud tobe British, a party tolead Britainout of the morass. Not UKIP , not lib dems. Instead it is just aform of limbo land .
JUst when you thought all twists had been taken, this comes up . Still a long long way to go yet.
No deal, a decent set of negotiaters , a decent set of problem solvers ( like where to source lettuces) is the way forward.
I'm aware of three new parties that are forming or are formed and like in mainland Europe I expect new parties to rapidly have an effect on the electoral landscape. Both Lab & Cons. will probably split into two parties. The Internet & social media, have changed the political landscape in mainland Europe & I personally expect the same to happen here.
New Parties:
Time Party
CleanBrexit Party
ProsperUK Party
........and following on from Varche's very valid and true comments how will those so called parties do any good in changing Brexit which 52% voted for and should get on 29th March 2019??
Mrs May who has worked bloody hard against 27 other national leaders to get whatever she has got, and is still trying to negotiate more, proving she is no quitter, going now will do no good whatsoever and in fact damage the very Brexit so many want.
FFS this just goes on and bloody on, so let everyone just retreat from their repetitive views and Let it Be, whatever this is now. Just going over the same old ground is doing no good to anyone, and the treasonable 48 who have pushed in the letters are just out for themselves, not the country or us the people. All they are doing is weakening further the position of our leader for what??!! >:(
She's worked bloody hard to keep us in! And, as for trying to negotiate more, the EU have already said there can be no renegotiation. Frankly, she has been a disaster as her heart has never been in Brexit and her WA deal is worse than simply staying in!
The 48 are not treasonable they just (finally!) realise how useless she is. Worst PM ever, IMHO.
-
Brown was worse...
-
Brown was worse...
There was a 'IMHO' after Migalot's assertion, I suggest you should put the same. ::)
-
Worst PM ever, IMHO.
Can't read those words without thinking of Comic Book Guy in the Simpsons..
(https://media.giphy.com/media/xT5LMsoq6cIBCE6UOQ/200w_d.gif) ;D
-
;D
-
May certainly has been working hard on #BRINO with her alleged four behind the scenes confidents who have driven her #Brext: BLair, Mandlescum, Major & Clegg. >:( >:( >:(
-
What is the point ??
The country voted to leave the EU at a referendum
Both major parties at the General Election manifestoed to Obey that referendum
Parliament decided to leave on the 29 March, with or without a deal
The EU have offered a "deal" that is unacceptable to Parliament, and are refusing to renegotiate.
The only other way is to leave without a deal.
Just how/where/why does a change of leadership change ANY of those facts ???
If the thought process is that the EU will renogiate with a new leader, then dream on .... it won't happen.
That is how it should happen ,but it seems that many in Parliament are very determined that they aren't going to allow that to happen. That scenario is when the screams for a "peoples vote", (as opposed to the 17.5 million hamsters who voted in 2016 ?) will become deafening.
Hence the hard line remainers in Parliament intending to vote down her deal.
-
Bookies odds: May survives 1/8, May loses 9/2.
-
I just heard a quote on the News today from someone, "Why change the Pilot when the Ships coming into the Port"
I personally think its more of a case of "Lets change the Captain because because we are definitely going to hit that Iceberg"
-
I just heard a quote on the News today from someone, "Why change the Pilot when the Ships coming into the Port"
I personally think its more of a case of "Lets change the Captain because we are definitely going to hit that Iceberg we hit 2 years ago ripped the arse out of the boat"
Fixed that for you.
-
The thought of McKvey leading scares the bejeesus out of me
-
The thought of McKvey leading scares the bejeesus out of me
WTF anyone thinks that she has even the slimmest chance is beyond me. Talk about project fear.
-
Hence the hard line remainers in Parliament intending to vote down her deal.
However, we've had a General Election since the referendum, so if the MPs in question identified themselves as remainers in the 2017 GE and got elected, surely they have a duty to their constituents to vote in such a way as to try and achieve a remain outcome? As its part of what they were voted in to do. That is what it means to live in a representative democracy.
If those MPs didn't identify themselves as such, then I would fully agree there is foul play.
-
I can say one thing for sure. I'm not a European and I never will be.
That is.....unless I can wangle a grant for something or other, then I'd love to be. ::)
-
Hence the hard line remainers in Parliament intending to vote down her deal.
However, we've had a General Election since the referendum, so if the MPs in question identified themselves as remainers in the 2017 GE and got elected, surely they have a duty to their constituents to vote in such a way as to try and achieve a remain outcome? As its part of what they were voted in to do. That is what it means to live in a representative democracy.
If those MPs didn't identify themselves as such, then I would fully agree there is foul play.
They didn't. They all (apart from the Limpdems) stood on a manifesto to leave the EU including the single market and customs union.
Swivel eyed Soubry for example represents a leave constituency, and Im sure I heard on TV today that Yvette pixie Balls Coopers constituency voted very heavily for Leave.
-
It would appear that she is going to win this. So, she will bring her deal back to the commons next month. It will get voted down. So wtf happens then ?
As Entwood suggested, we should by default leave without a deal, but I imagine it will bring about yet more chaos.
All because so many of them are remainers and want to stop Brexit, but wont admit to it, because they claim to be democrats.
What an utter shower of shite most of them are.
I would respect them a little more if they said " the voters can far cough, we aren't having it, and that's an end of it". At least they would be honest about themselves then. ::)
-
Apparently, she has promised them that if they back her now, she will stand down before the next election. She was probably planning to do that anyway. She was a complete liability at the last election.
-
The Tory party seem to be hell bent on doing Corbyns job for him.I'm no fan of the PM but no one else is going to get a better deal from the EU and the Tory party is a shambles so who in their right minds would want to pick up the poisoned chalice?
-
Boris wants it. He wants it so bad it hurts. ;) ;D
-
Boris wants it. He wants it so bad it hurts. ;) ;D
I was just going to say, that scheming t**t Boris must be loving this
-
Boris wants it. He wants it so bad it hurts. ;) ;D
He does. But he's used his technique*** so many times that he's even convinced the Tories not to have anything to do with him.
*** lie, bullshit in latin, then run away. Perhaps he should try for Italian PM 8)
-
They didn't. They all (apart from the Limpdems) stood on a manifesto to leave the EU including the single market and customs union.
Swivel eyed Soubry for example represents a leave constituency, and Im sure I heard on TV today that Yvette pixie Balls Coopers constituency voted very heavily for Leave.
In that case, for once, we are in agreement. ???
-
It's official - she lives to be embarrassed another day
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46547246 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46547246)
-
And the mayhem continues. ::)
-
We've got years of it yet. If we're lucky.
-
The majority of her backbenchers voted against her. That is very significant. Ministers cant vote against her unless they resign first, so have can easily have a different agenda to backbenchers.
This and the fact she has announced she wont stay on for much longer means she has lost most of the authority she had, which wasn't that much to start with.
-
The majority of her backbenchers voted against her. That is very significant. Ministers cant vote against her unless they resign first, so have can easily have a different agenda to backbenchers.
This and the fact she has announced she wont stay on for much longer means she has lost most of the authority she had, which wasn't that much to start with.
Other than quoting the BBC/Daily Fail/Labour party idiots .... just how do you know this ?? I was under the distinct impression it was a "secret" ballot ???
A small fact that seems to have escaped some of the very biased commentators tonight ... :)
-
All those "on the payroll" (ministers at all levels) must be assumed to have voted in her favour, as they cannot vote against the PM without resigning first. Apparently its a serious constitutional matter.
-
All those "on the payroll" (ministers at all levels) must be assumed to have voted in her favour, as they cannot vote against the PM without resigning first. Apparently its a serious constitutional matter.
On a public vote .. yes.. but this was a "secret" ballot.
-
The Tories have become a party of invertebrates. ::)
In days gone by they'd have knifed her in the back, left her twitching in the gutter and headed for the bar without a backward glance to plot their next move. :)
-
The Tories have become a party of invertebrates. ::)
In days gone by they'd have knifed her in the back, left her twitching in the gutter and headed for the bar without a backward glance to plot their next move. :)
true. But that would have required someone who wanted the job and had enough support to get it. There is no one with enough support, let alone anyone stupid enough to try for it.
Which emphasises what a massive opps up Brexit has been since the referendum was first suggested.
-
The Tories have become a party of invertebrates. ::)
In days gone by they'd have knifed her in the back, left her twitching in the gutter and headed for the bar without a backward glance to plot their next move. :)
You have a way with words. ;D
-
Apart from Boris, Amber Rudd wants it, Sajid David wants it Esther McVey wants it, but they know now that she will give them the opportunity to go for it in the next couple of years and for better or worse, the biggest issue of the time will probably be settled by then - in theory.
-
We can only hope that she has got the message that the backstop is unacceptable. ::)
-
We can only hope that she has got the message that the backstop is unacceptable. ::)
Its not her who needs to get that message .. it is the EU .....
You can't negotiate with someone who won't negotiate ... and at the moment they are saying take it or leave it .. so I say leave it .. no deal :)
-
That will do nicely. :y...
...A lot of politicians are determined to stop that from happening though.
Things are as clear as mud at the moment.
-
We can only hope that she has got the message that the backstop is unacceptable. ::)
If if the backstop was removed by witchcraft the rest of the deal is pretty piss poor. Still more in the EU than out of it.
Brexit is supposed to be a brave new world. It looks like TM is afraid to let them go.
-
We can only hope that she has got the message that the backstop is unacceptable. ::)
Its not her who needs to get that message .. it is the EU .....
You can't negotiate with someone who won't negotiate ... and at the moment they are saying take it or leave it .. so I say leave it .. no deal :)
It's true that the EU are not being overly helpful. But it was we who chose to leave, and there are 27 other countries who have their own agenda. Actions and consequences.
This idea that Germany sell a large number of BMW and Mercedes to the UK so we can dictate terms and conditions to them and 26 other countries is pure fantasy.
The only REAL brexit is a 'no deal brexit'. Anything else is half in and half out..........much like the first time I had sex. 8)
-
We can only hope that she has got the message that the backstop is unacceptable. ::)
If if the backstop was removed by witchcraft the rest of the deal is pretty piss poor. Still more in the EU than out of it.
Brexit is supposed to be a brave new world. It looks like TM is afraid to let them go.
The fact that the rest of the deal is poor will be forgotten by the many. The backstop smokescreen has seen to that.. the whole thing is like a pantomime with unwilling cast members.
-
The EU offered David Davis a better deal, Canada + type of thing, albeit with the Irish border issue still to be resolved.
Talks were underway to resolve the border issue using technology, as is used in many other places, including Felixstowe for example, which has around around £70 billion of trade passing through it p.a. compared to the Irish border £3 billion.
As soon as Varadkar got elected he called a halt to this process as he saw an opportunity and a weak gullible British PM who he could manipulate.
The rest is history....in the making.
-
That will do nicely. :y...
...A lot of politicians are determined to stop that from happening though.
Things are as clear as mud at the moment.
Not just the politicians, but the re-mainstream media as well. ::)
The Guardian had a front page story a couple of days ago telling us that every lorry coming into Dover will have to be physically checked and that it will take eight hours to check each truck! ::)
The fact that a tiny percentage of containers coming from outside the EU are physically checked and that all the UK port operators say that they can manage a No Deal situation just dosn't seem to register... :-\
-
The fact that a tiny percentage of containers coming from outside the EU are physically checked and that all the UK port operators say that they can manage a No Deal situation just dosn't seem to register... :-\
The British press (of any stripe or political alignment) have never been known to let actual facts get in the way of a front page story.
-
The fact that a tiny percentage of containers coming from outside the EU are physically checked and that all the UK port operators say that they can manage a No Deal situation just dosn't seem to register... :-\
The British press (of any stripe or political alignment) have never been known to let actual facts get in the way of a front page story.
That's true Jimmy and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see that sort of shite in the Mirror, but I do expect the Guardian's analysis to be a little more thoughtful. ::)
That's not to say that I agree with much of the shite that they do publish mind. ;D
-
Its alright kicking May out but wtf is there to replace her ::)
I give you the new leader of the Conservative party: https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/photos/the-funniest-photos-of-boris-johnson/
The tennis player Boris picture has a certain " my wife is also my sister " feel to it. :)
-
The Guardian had a front page story a couple of days ago telling us that every lorry coming into Dover will have to be physically checked and that it will take eight hours to check each truck! ::)
That's not the issue because we will soon decide to return to checking random containers. Although 8 hours to pick one, check it and the truck it's on, do all the paperwork and move it out doesn't sound unrealistic to me.
What we should be worrying about is the lorries going into the EU, which we don't control. It's not hard to see them physically checking each truck, and not allowing any more into each docks until there is room for them, just to teach us a lesson.
We all need to get used to hearing this phrase: but you wanted to leave
-
The Guardian had a front page story a couple of days ago telling us that every lorry coming into Dover will have to be physically checked and that it will take eight hours to check each truck! ::)
That's not the issue because we will soon decide to return to checking random containers. Although 8 hours to pick one, check it and the truck it's on, do all the paperwork and move it out doesn't sound unrealistic to me.
They already do random checks at Dover and they've been doing them for years. I've been pulled over there by HMRC myself. ;)
Eight hours to unload a truck and check every item on a manifest, could take 8 hours I agree, especially if it's a container load of small items like matchboxes for example and they decide to count every matchbox! ::)
I think it's very unlikely that they will check much more than they do already, but who knows? ::) :-\
What we should be worrying about is the lorries going into the EU, which we don't control. It's not hard to see them physically checking each truck, and not allowing any more into each docks until there is room for them, just to teach us a lesson.
Yes it's quite possible that the French might get a little arsey, but the head of Calais port was quoted as saying that they wouldn't be increasing checks significantly as it would be economic suicide for France. I think he was slapped down by Micron though. ::)
-
We all need to get used to hearing this phrase: but you wanted to leave
To be fair, I'm in that place already.
I was well aware how this would pan out (notwithstanding how most people hoped it would pan out) and a glance back at my pre-referendum posts on the matter confirm it. The EU were never going to agree to any deal that put us in anything other than a worse position than being full members, and there was never a political appetite to walk away with a no-deal. Which is why we were over a barrel from the beginning. ;D
This is also why no-one in the Leave campaign could ever article what the end position would look like. Not before the referendum, or since.
As far as I'm concerned it was a stupid idea to begin with, and no amount of "let's pull together and make a success of it" is going to change my mind. ::)
Which is no doubt sufficient grounds for being labelled a treacherous millennial snowflake ;)
-
We all need to get used to hearing this phrase: but you wanted to leave
To be fair, I'm in that place already.
I was well aware how this would pan out (notwithstanding how most people hoped it would pan out) and a glance back at my pre-referendum posts on the matter confirm it. The EU were never going to agree to any deal that put us in anything other than a worse position than being full members, and there was never a political appetite to walk away with a no-deal. Which is why we were over a barrel from the beginning. ;D
This is also why no-one in the Leave campaign could ever article what the end position would look like. Not before the referendum, or since.
As far as I'm concerned it was a stupid idea to begin with, and no amount of "let's pull together and make a success of it" is going to change my mind. ::)
Which is no doubt sufficient grounds for being labelled a treacherous millennial snowflake ;)
Yeah. Although metaphorically, as I'm way too old to be a millennial ;D
-
All discussions on this subject seem to centre around financial considerations. Finance is of course important, but it isn't the most important thing in life.
This is about, and always has been about the fact that our status as a free, democratic, self governing nation has slowly been removed from us, without our consent and we have decided to reverse that process.
-
Finance is of course important, but it isn't the most important thing in life.
True, but it's notable that the most leave-centric age group (baby boomers) are also the wealthiest generation, including those before and after them. Who notably enjoyed such prosperity, while under the auspices of the EU and preceding organisations. They are also now becoming part of the politically protected"grey vote" who will always benefit at the expense of generations that come after. In that position, I wouldn't be as focused on money either.
Certainly for me, the arguments about sovereignty are secondary to the financial benefits and personal rights and freedoms that come as part of being in the EU.
BUT, even parking that argument, I come back to the central question of: What did anyone think was going to happen?
At the risk of again putting predictions in print, No Deal wasn't and still isn't, and won't be in the future a politically viable option. As such, we were always going to take what the EU was willing to give. Ie a poor deal, same responsibilities, less say in how those are arrived at.
And as for striking good trade deals with the likes of the US, that was always a lie only believable by the terminally short sighted. Trump has niw openly said he wants to screw the NHS on drug prices as part of any trade deal. Which is only to be expected from the MAGA president.
-
A few quick comments.
Baby boomers maybe enjoyed wealth under the auspices of the EU but not because of the EU. Mostly it was inherited wealth from the war generation.
You are thinking like most people. What is in it for me. Will I be better off and be able to enjoy the side benefits of the EU. MigV6 hits it on the head. Sovereignty is a hard earned but easily given away concept. That is the fundamental part I fight for. There might be hard times for a while but the EU know that and count on peoples inertia and fear to keep their ball rolling.
There is so much fear. The media use hackle raisng termnology all the time. Like when we go over the cliff edge at the end of March People nherently dont Lke change and yet have just sat back and handed Brussels power. So long as they have an iphone, fast broadband and a mcdonalds they dont get give a damn.
A fnal thought. If the EU is such a good thing , how come there arent more elsewhere n the world?
-
They already do random checks at Dover and they've been doing them for years. I've been pulled over there by HMRC myself. ;)
Eight hours to unload a truck and check every item on a manifest, could take 8 hours I agree, especially if it's a container load of small items like matchboxes for example and they decide to count every matchbox! ::)
44T of Escobar's finest sniffing sugar takes a good few hours to sample ignore impound, I'll bet.. ;) ;D
Off topic because if I read anything more about BREXIT I may be forced to string myself up by the neck...
-
So for 200 Tory MPs the very democracy that elected them, they are happy to set the mandate and to play their part so it is extinguished in this country by May & the anti-democratic grey suits behind her. She has now got the mandate to do this & if she succeeds we will for the first time since 1066 no longer be a free self-governing nation. Our only hope now is for the 117 MPs who voted against her, to hold firm & stop her & the grey suits like BLiar, Mandlescum, Major & two EU pensions Clegg from succeeding. >:( >:( >:(
Never ever lose sight of the fact that however benign a dictatorship is when it starts like the EU the more power it amasses and the more unpopular it gets (like all governments do over time), the more ruthless it becomes in preserving the power and privileges of those in charge. If UK democracy is stolen from us the people, dark, violent times lie ahead where we will all have to choose like in Cromwell's day on which side we are on. Are you for democracy, wealth creation for the masses, private property and the same laws applying to everybody or for an all powerful ruling elite and regime where you lease everything from the state including your life and any lease can be cancelled at any time?
-
You are thinking like most people. What is in it for me. Will I be better off and be able to enjoy the side benefits of the EU.
Not really, (and I realise what follows will make me sound like a conceited pr!ck, but nevermind, I think we all know I am anyway ;) ). SWMBO and I are in the privileged position of being near certain entrants through any immigration system in the civilised world. I've always been pretty agnostic about where I live and if it suits us to do so, we'll just leave.
What I am thinking about is a nation that already spends more than it earns, can't educate its children properly, has an aging (politically protected) generation that retired early and needs paying for, an NHS that we won't be able to protect from rising drug prices and privatisation voluntarily trying to make itself poorer.
The bill for all that can only be met by my generation and the one(s) who come after.
Anyone who tells you money isn't the main thing, either at a personal or national level needs to think a bit harder about what money buys you. :'(
-
The most important things in life are the things that money cant buy.
-
You mean like good health, being able to follow a passion, the amount of time you get to spend with your family, the richness of your life experiences?
Because last time I checked, all of those are intrinsically linked to money, be it your own, or the collective wealth of the country in which you live.
-
A country's money, wealth & property rights are IMO third on the list. Number one is freedom & democracy which are linked. Number two is good health and a good health system that you can afford to use when you need to.
On your you can live anywhere, I'm the same, all I heed is a reasonable Internet connection and phone system to work & earn a living. If we become a vassal state of the Brussels' dictatorship, then I will be moving to a non-EU state, the nearest of which is the Isle of Man as I won't live or subject my family to living under any oppressive, undemocratic regime. My wife and her family have been there under Soviet rule, which includes state starvation, slavery and 'enemies of the people' disappearing to never be seen again.
-
So for 200 Tory MPs the very democracy that elected them, they are happy to set the mandate and to play their part so it is extinguished in this country by May & the anti-democratic grey suits behind her. She has now got the mandate to do this & if she succeeds we will for the first time since 1066 no longer be a free self-governing nation. Our only hope now is for the 117 MPs who voted against her, to hold firm & stop her & the grey suits like BLiar, Mandlescum, Major & two EU pensions Clegg from succeeding. >:( >:( >:(
Never ever lose sight of the fact that however benign a dictatorship is when it starts like the EU the more power it amasses and the more unpopular it gets (like all governments do over time), the more ruthless it becomes in preserving the power and privileges of those in charge. If UK democracy is stolen from us the people, dark, violent times lie ahead where we will all have to choose like in Cromwell's day on which side we are on. Are you for democracy, wealth creation for the masses, private property and the same laws applying to everybody or for an all powerful ruling elite and regime where you lease everything from the state including your life and any lease can be cancelled at any time?
You mean when a bunch of Norman barons killed off the Saxon ones and took complete control of the English populous, without any hope for them to be given any real freedoms, and in fact only to see the continuation of the fiefdom (slavery) system!? ::) ::)
It was not until 1651 that the people really started to have any kind of democracy post the Third English Civil War with an end to absolute monarchy and the right of the common man to rule himself. Even then it was not until 1918, after the ruling class had led it's working class population to be slaughtered in a war of Empires, that all men over 21 had the right to vote, and not until 1928 that women were finally blessed with that right.
Then, after saying that, all the time we have proportional representation in our parliamentary system, and it is hard to see what else could work, our democracy will not be perfect and with worldwide considerations always there we can never "be a free self-governing nation" as recent political events have surely shown. In the EU we had a chance, with a real British leader (one to be found please!!), to ensure that organisation worked in favour of the (British) people and ensured the security and stability democracy needs. But, hay ho, 52% of our people voted to withdraw. So, now......
With BREXIT now we should withdraw from it as the European Court of Justice has ruled we can, without penalty. Then, with new leadership and a review of what we want to base BREXIT on, with perhaps a chance for the British public to comment by way of a vote that clearly instructs our elected representatives to seek a new BREXIT on terms that truly echo what they want (if that is possible!!) and will give our country the freedoms and powers suitable for our needs. ;)
-
So you want to declare the biggest vote in the history of the country null and void. :o
Words fail me.
-
Lizzie. This with a real leader we could have influenced the EU as one of 28 nations. How would that work if the 27 voted against our one voice? How would it work if the bar was raised by say % vote by populace ( as per the Brexitcurrent scenario).
David Cameron was a real leader and he failed horribly. That was in the era before the EU hardened against Britain.
-
So you want to declare the biggest vote in the history of the country null and void. :o
Words fail me.
Unless we have a 'no deal brexit' we won't have a brexit.
Any other form of 'watery still linked to Europe brexit' is not brexit......or brexit in name only. :)
-
If most Remainers, instead of a small minority, had accepted the democratic result and had acted like adults, been patriotic, rather than fifth columns by channeling their efforts into a successful Brexit and a successful UK we would not be where we are now with all their plotting, collusion and hidden agendas. IMO absolutely shameful how they have behaved. >:( >:( >:(
-
So you want to declare the biggest vote in the history of the country null and void. :o
Words fail me.
I am not.
I am suggesting what any good military commander does if your battle position is compromised and will not give you what you want. You withdraw your forces, re-group, revise your battle plans, then again go on the offensive to achieve your objectives by a different route.
Other than that, and avoiding going through yet again the circle of going nowhere, what else do you suggest that is practical? ::)
All you, and so many, are just suggesting we continue with the Charge of the Light Brigade, and we know how that ended once the spin of the time was lifted! That is when words fail me!! ::) ::)
-
If most Remainers, instead of a small minority, had accepted the democratic result and had acted like adults, been patriotic, rather than fifth columns by channeling their efforts into a successful Brexit and a successful UK we would not be where we are now with all their plotting, collusion and hidden agendas. IMO absolutely shameful how they have behaved. >:( >:( >:(
I voted remain and would vote remain again if an option on a second referendum.
However, I don't think remainers should be given that option. We lost. Shit happens.
If there is another referendum the option should be between TM's watery BRINO or no deal...........but I wager there would be the option to remain as well.
Either way there will be tears before bedtime. ::)
-
If most Remainers, instead of a small minority, had accepted the democratic result and had acted like adults, been patriotic, rather than fifth columns by channeling their efforts into a successful Brexit and a successful UK we would not be where we are now with all their plotting, collusion and hidden agendas. IMO absolutely shameful how they have behaved. >:( >:( >:(
That's right, just blame it on a "small majority" of remainers instead of blaming the big majority of Brexiteers who, after starting this all off with a series of lies to the British people, have only worked to try and feather their political nests instead of working towards getting the best for the country. As the "majority" they have failed to turn victory at the polls into the reality they promised. They are the ones to blame, not a minority!!
In anycase, whatever, it is no good you or anyone else entering the blame game now. What this country needs is for everyone to work to get the best we can get for the nation and it's people. If that means a tactical withdrawal, before a new offensive as I stated above, for the sake of the nation and all our well being, then so be it! ;)
-
If most Remainers, instead of a small minority, had accepted the democratic result and had acted like adults, been patriotic, rather than fifth columns by channeling their efforts into a successful Brexit and a successful UK we would not be where we are now with all their plotting, collusion and hidden agendas. IMO absolutely shameful how they have behaved. >:( >:( >:(
That's right, just blame it on a "small majority" of remainers instead of blaming the big majority of Brexiteers who, after starting this all off with a series of lies to the British people, have only worked to try and feather their political nests instead of working towards getting the best for the country. As the "majority" they have failed to turn victory at the polls into the reality they promised. They are the ones to blame, not a minority!!
In anycase, whatever, it is no good you or anyone else entering the blame game now. What this country needs is for everyone to work to get the best we can get for the nation and it's people. If that means a tactical withdrawal, before a new offensive as I stated above, for the sake of the nation and all our well being, then so be it! ;)
Kick him in the balls, Lizzie........ ::) ::) ::) :-* :-*
-
If most Remainers, instead of a small minority, had accepted the democratic result and had acted like adults, been patriotic, rather than fifth columns by channeling their efforts into a successful Brexit and a successful UK we would not be where we are now with all their plotting, collusion and hidden agendas. IMO absolutely shameful how they have behaved. >:( >:( >:(
That's right, just blame it on a "small majority" of remainers instead of blaming the big majority of Brexiteers who, after starting this all off with a series of lies to the British people, have only worked to try and feather their political nests instead of working towards getting the best for the country. As the "majority" they have failed to turn victory at the polls into the reality they promised. They are the ones to blame, not a minority!!
In anycase, whatever, it is no good you or anyone else entering the blame game now. What this country needs is for everyone to work to get the best we can get for the nation and it's people. If that means a tactical withdrawal, before a new offensive as I stated above, for the sake of the nation and all our well being, then so be it! ;)
I rest my case from my earlier post! On the subject of lies, what was Project Fear which continues to this day then?
-
With BREXIT now we should withdraw from it as the European Court of Justice has ruled we can, without penalty. Then, with new leadership and a review of what we want to base BREXIT on, with perhaps a chance for the British public to comment by way of a vote that clearly instructs our elected representatives to seek a new BREXIT on terms that truly echo what they want (if that is possible!!) and will give our country the freedoms and powers suitable for our needs. ;)
So what you are saying Lizzie is that we revoke A50, take a deep breath, a step back, another referendum and then invoke A50 for a second time. ???
That would really endear us to our EU masters, friends and neighbours! ;D
-
With BREXIT now we should withdraw from it as the European Court of Justice has ruled we can, without penalty. Then, with new leadership and a review of what we want to base BREXIT on, with perhaps a chance for the British public to comment by way of a vote that clearly instructs our elected representatives to seek a new BREXIT on terms that truly echo what they want (if that is possible!!) and will give our country the freedoms and powers suitable for our needs. ;)
So what you are saying Lizzie is that we revoke A50, take a deep breath, a step back, another referendum and then invoke A50 for a second time. ???
That would really endear us to our EU masters, friends and neighbours! ;D
Yes, and it is not perfect, but what else is open to us all now? What other options that can actually work are open to the UK?
All I hear is a blame game going on, and no one suggesting a real solution. The time for leadership and a fresh approach is now, just as Neville Chamberlain was replaced by Winston Churchill May 1940 to bring about a fresh approach in the war against Adolf Hitler. A far bigger threat than exiting the EU!! ;)
..............and as for "That would really endear us to our EU masters, friends and neighbours!"; I think we are now beyond worrying about that, and anyway sod em!! ;)
-
Fortunately, or otherwise, this is still a democracy and not a military state, aka dictatorship. Thank God.
Regrouping and putting everything on hold is neither workable, nor legal.
With or without an agreed deal, we are leaving the EU on 29th March 2019.
Accept this, by whatever means necessary, and move on... Hopefully forwards with the rest of us. There's a good lass.
-
Fortunately, or otherwise, this is still a democracy and not a military state, aka dictatorship. Thank God.
Regrouping and putting everything on hold is neither workable, nor legal.
With or without an agreed deal, we are leaving the EU on 29th March 2019.
Accept this, by whatever means necessary, and move on... Hopefully forwards with the rest of us. There's a good lass.
Yes it is as the European Court of Justice ruled that the UK can withdraw quite legally from article 50 without penalty.
As for being told to move on like a good lass.........I won't even answer that fully apart from saying I am from a military family who have always studied history and politics and can say our piece on both as an equal. I am not one to go along with everything as some headless chicken, and management, let alone our military connection, taught me to get rid of people who were the problem and replace with those that are part of the solution. That way you win.
We are now in a situation where difficult decisions will have to be made as the EU will not budge on their deal. We need those with a vision of how to go forward, and not the continual back stabbers out there at the moment; indeed the man or women of the moment is what we need. Someone who can really take us all forward with a new deal, and that will not be the one offered up next week. So a new approach is required. ;)
-
..............and as for "That would really endear us to our EU masters, friends and neighbours!"; I think we are now beyond worrying about that, and anyway sod em!! ;)
That's the spirit! :y ;D
-
Fortunately, or otherwise, this is still a democracy and not a military state, aka dictatorship. Thank God.
Regrouping and putting everything on hold is neither workable, nor legal.
With or without an agreed deal, we are leaving the EU on 29th March 2019.
Accept this, by whatever means necessary, and move on... Hopefully forwards with the rest of us. There's a good lass.
Maybe......perhaps.....who knows. :)
-
If most Remainers, instead of a small minority, had accepted the democratic result and had acted like adults, been patriotic, rather than fifth columns by channeling their efforts into a successful Brexit and a successful UK we would not be where we are now with all their plotting, collusion and hidden agendas. IMO absolutely shameful how they have behaved. >:( >:( >:(
So, because 52% of voters chose an option I don't believe in I should set my beliefs aside and muck in? That's not being an adult, that's being an automaton.
By that logic, can I expect you to become a raving socialist if Corbyn were elected? As you say, if he gets the majority of the vote, you should act like an adult, be patriotic and support him. ::)
-
Fortunately, or otherwise, this is still a democracy and not a military state, aka dictatorship. Thank God.
Regrouping and putting everything on hold is neither workable, nor legal.
With or without an agreed deal, we are leaving the EU on 29th March 2019.
Accept this, by whatever means necessary, and move on... Hopefully forwards with the rest of us. There's a good lass.
Yes it is as the European Court of Justice ruled that the UK can withdraw quite legally from article 50 without penalty.
As for being told to move on like a good lass.........I won't even answer that fully apart from saying I am from a military family who have always studied history and politics and can say our piece on both as an equal. I am not one to go along with everything as some headless chicken, and management, let alone our military connection, taught me to get rid of people who were the problem and replace with those that are part of the solution. That way you win.
We are now in a situation where difficult decisions will have to be made as the EU will not budge on their deal. We need those with a vision of how to go forward, and not the continual back stabbers out there at the moment; indeed the man or women of the moment is what we need. Someone who can really take us all forward with a new deal, and that will not be the one offered up next week. So a new approach is required. ;)
It's a shit deal all round. Was always going to be.
But...
It is only intended to see us up to 29th March 2019. From 30th March 2019 the actual negotiations to establish our place in the global market place, which includes the EU.
Leaving with No Deal sees us start from a WTO rules position which gives as a mirror finished starting point.
Trying to renegotiate the proposed deal that no one likes, is akin to trying to change the colour of a wedding dress the day before you get married... and will garner one of two responses, either £££ or No.
No being the rational response... but of course by offering to allow us to revoke Article 50, the EU has effectively told the ECJ to do this so that they can, and will, screw us financially for an unlimited amount.
Be under no illusion that the ECJ reached this decision by its free will or legal merit. Juncker, Tusk, Merkel et al would have insisted on it to try and force events preventing us from leaving.
So again, no deal is the best deal. Come March 30th, we can move forward entirely on our terms.
-
Fortunately, or otherwise, this is still a democracy and not a military state, aka dictatorship. Thank God.
Regrouping and putting everything on hold is neither workable, nor legal.
With or without an agreed deal, we are leaving the EU on 29th March 2019.
Accept this, by whatever means necessary, and move on... Hopefully forwards with the rest of us. There's a good lass.
You do come across as a condescending tit some times
-
We all have our moments :-[
-
They keep warbling about another referendum to establish "the will of the people". Like it or not, there's only one way that vote would go at this point (remain) and since the ECJ has kindly said we can withdraw our Art. 50 declaration, we'll stay in the EU.
That's my prediction, anyway.
-
If there is another referendum woouldnt that open up the way for Scotland to have another one?
Parliament has got us into this mess. Conservatives led by a remainer and opposed by Labour led by a leaver. Well those are their hues last time I looked.
What would be the questions on such a referendum?
Stay in EU as a cowed country forever subservient to eurozone core
Leave wiith purgatory of cliff edge no deal
Who would put the case fairly and accurately for each?
How about the EU treats the UK like a teenager leaving home. Still a full member for five years during which time they can make their own way in the world ( making trade deals) then after up to five years make a clean break. Win win for everyone.
-
How about the EU treats the UK like a teenager leaving home. Still a full member for five years during which time they can make their own way in the world ( making trade deals) then after up to five years make a clean break. Win win for everyone.
Then when we're 30 and we've broken up with our girlfriend (America) we move back in, rent free? :D
-
They keep warbling about another referendum to establish "the will of the people". Like it or not, there's only one way that vote would go at this point (remain) and since the ECJ has kindly said we can withdraw our Art. 50 declaration, we'll stay in the EU.
That's my prediction, anyway.
Weak n Wobbly has said a 2nd referendum is out of the question. Shall we start a sweepstake as to when it's going to be? ;D
-
How about the EU treats the UK like a teenager leaving home. Still a full member for five years during which time they can make their own way in the world ( making trade deals) then after up to five years make a clean break. Win win for everyone.
Then when we're 30 and we've broken up with our girlfriend (America) we move back in, rent free? :D
Now you are being negative . My parents rule was we could stay as long as we liked but once we left that was it. Rent free member of the EU? That may gain traction as a way forward. :y
-
How about the EU treats the UK like a teenager leaving home. Still a full member for five years during which time they can make their own way in the world ( making trade deals) then after up to five years make a clean break. Win win for everyone.
Then when we're 30 and we've broken up with our girlfriend (America) we move back in, rent free? :D
Now you are being negative . My parents rule was we could stay as long as we liked but once we left that was it. Rent free member of the EU? That may gain traction as a way forward. :y
Greater chance of us all moving in with your parents...