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[Viral_Jim]

Evening all.

Setting off this morning I had an intermittent airbag light that could be gotten rid of for a time by restarting the car. I'm also without the Chrysler atm so it's my only car.   

By the time I got back it was on and wouldn't go away by restarting. Currently it comes on with the key in position 2, goes out when the key goes to position 3 and stays off for maybe 1-2s after the engine catches but then comes back on.

MOT is in the next couple of weeks so any pointers would be greatly appreciated before I either spend some money on a diagnostic kit that will read the SRS system, or open up the dash binacle and change the warning light to take a power feed from a different light (CEL maybe)  .

[Andy B]

Barry has an iCarsoft 

[dave the builder]

check the connections under the seats (common problem)
but ideally you need to read the codes ,and I don't think the codes reset ,so you might NEED a suitable code reader to reset /turn the light off anyway.
damaging the bulb (LED) , black tape or other bodgery/masking will render ALL the air bags ,seatbelt pre-tensioners etc inoperable ,so not a good idea 

[countrywoman]

Seat sensor wiring or column/clock spring wiring I suspect.

[Viral_Jim]

Fair enough, I will bite the diagnostic bullet  .

Seat sensor wiring or column/clock spring wiring I suspect.

Clock spring might not be a bad shout, I'm pretty sure that a number of times the light triggered I was making significant steering inputs (parking rather than tear-ar$ing it about).

check the connections under the seats (common problem)

Is this the large black plug at the front centre of the seat? I think it was the only one I could see. No heated seats or electric adjustment in mine so I'm guessing it's that...

[dave the builder]

Fair enough, I will bite the diagnostic bullet  .

Seat sensor wiring or column/clock spring wiring I suspect.

Clock spring might not be a bad shout, I'm pretty sure that a number of times the light triggered I was making significant steering inputs (parking rather than tear-ar$ing it about).

check the connections under the seats (common problem)

Is this the large black plug at the front centre of the seat? I think it was the only one I could see. No heated seats or electric adjustment in mine so I'm guessing it's that...

Air bag plugs etc tend to be yellow but may well be plugged into that black plug ,along with the belt socket switch wiring, etc

but ,,, as you will need a "code reader" to reset codes ,to turn the light off ,you may as well read the codes to point you in the right direction, rather than introducing new codes whilst messing without proper diagnostics 
 

[Viral_Jim]

rather than introducing new codes whilst messing without proper diagnostics 

As if I would ...

[TheBoy]

Get the codes off, as pissing in a force 9 gale is never successful.

If you pass this way, I think I have my CANdi for Tech2.  Or I think even the crappy software that cant be named can do SRS ECUs?

[Viral_Jim]

I bit the bullet and bought an iCarSoft.

£159 and I can load up to 10 manufacturers worth of software included in that price. Considering the fleet in responsible for includes Chrysler, BMW, JLR and vaux, it feels like I'll get my monies worth pretty soon. 

I also got under the driver's seat, looked at the wiring, cleaned and re-seated the multi plug, all seems fine and no change to the light.

[Doctor Gollum]

I bit the bullet and bought an iCarSoft.

£159 and I can load up to 10 manufacturers worth of software included in that price. Considering the fleet in responsible for includes Chrysler, BMW, JLR and vaux, it feels like I'll get my monies worth pretty soon. 

I also got under the driver's seat, looked at the wiring, cleaned and re-seated the multi plug, all seems fine and no change to the light.

Passenger seat has an airbag or two as well as the pretensioner, and probably an occupancy sensor. So rather than assume, keep investigating

[dave the builder]

Get the codes off, as pissing in a force 9 gale is never successful.

as long as you piss in the same direction the wind is blowing it's fine ,stops any drips on your shoes 

If you pass this way, I think I have my CANdi for Tech2.  Or I think even the crappy software that cant be named can do SRS ECUs?

indeed it can read & clear all modules, live data and output tests on 1996 to 2012 Vaux/opel models 
 but you have to be careful ,know what you're doing and what buttons you press   

that said , caution is advised when working on SRS and airbags whichever software & diagnostic interface is used

you could end up with a bag of white powder in the face , and i'm not talking about the moreish Columbian white powder either 


 

[Marks DTM Calib]

Its strange that the light is going off sometimes, for any safety system if a real fault code is logged that impacts any of the safety functions then it has to latch the light until cleared.

[Viral_Jim]

I wasn't aware of this Mark .

It's now on constantly with every start up. I will update once I have some codes...

[Marks DTM Calib]

It might be something related to the non-safety bits like maybe passenger seat occupancy sensor or similar. If its related to the airbags, tensioners, impact sensors etc then it does have to latch

[TheBoy]

that said , caution is advised when working on SRS and airbags whichever software & diagnostic interface is used

you could end up with a bag of white powder in the face , and i'm not talking about the moreish Columbian white powder either 

I had one go off using one of the dodgy options, can't remember if it was the software than cant be named, or its predecessor, Cheapo-Tech2.  Less concerned about the smattering of power, or my temporary deafness, but more about how much I could fill my pants.

Genuine Tech2, no such concerns, will happily sit in the driver's seat, diagnosing the SRS ECU

[dave the builder]

that said , caution is advised when working on SRS and airbags whichever software & diagnostic interface is used

you could end up with a bag of white powder in the face , and i'm not talking about the moreish Columbian white powder either 

I had one go off using one of the dodgy options, can't remember if it was the software than cant be named, or its predecessor, Cheapo-Tech2.  Less concerned about the smattering of power, or my temporary deafness, but more about how much I could fill my pants.

Genuine Tech2, no such concerns, will happily sit in the driver's seat, diagnosing the SRS ECU

just eat 12 hard boiled eggs the day before working on air bags and fit/insert a cork to be on the safe side 

[TheBoy]

that said , caution is advised when working on SRS and airbags whichever software & diagnostic interface is used

you could end up with a bag of white powder in the face , and i'm not talking about the moreish Columbian white powder either 

I had one go off using one of the dodgy options, can't remember if it was the software than cant be named, or its predecessor, Cheapo-Tech2.  Less concerned about the smattering of power, or my temporary deafness, but more about how much I could fill my pants.

Genuine Tech2, no such concerns, will happily sit in the driver's seat, diagnosing the SRS ECU

just eat 12 hard boiled eggs the day before working on air bags and fit/insert a cork to be on the safe side 

Ah, so I'm not alone in being affected by eggs.

Me and bro once went to a Harvester, back when they used to do gammon and as many eggs as you can eat.  Obviously, with me and bro, things got a little competitive, and we ate far too many eggs. Like dozens.  He said it had no impact, but I didn't use the potty for about 4 days, which clearly ended in much pain, lots of blood, and damage to the door hinges as I used the door handle as a straining bar....

I try to keep to a max of one egg a day now....

[dave the builder]

that said , caution is advised when working on SRS and airbags whichever software & diagnostic interface is used

you could end up with a bag of white powder in the face , and i'm not talking about the moreish Columbian white powder either 

I had one go off using one of the dodgy options, can't remember if it was the software than cant be named, or its predecessor, Cheapo-Tech2.  Less concerned about the smattering of power, or my temporary deafness, but more about how much I could fill my pants.

Genuine Tech2, no such concerns, will happily sit in the driver's seat, diagnosing the SRS ECU

just eat 12 hard boiled eggs the day before working on air bags and fit/insert a cork to be on the safe side 

Ah, so I'm not alone in being affected by eggs.

Me and bro once went to a Harvester, back when they used to do gammon and as many eggs as you can eat.  Obviously, with me and bro, things got a little competitive, and we ate far too many eggs. Like dozens.  He said it had no impact, but I didn't use the potty for about 4 days, which clearly ended in much pain, lots of blood, and damage to the door hinges as I used the door handle as a straining bar....

I try to keep to a max of one egg a day now....

Am egg a day us not a bad thing at all 
I've done some research (because of my mum's dementia & Alzheimer's )
25% of the food you eat us used by the brain ,
 and the cholesterol from one egg a day has no major impact on bad cholesterol  levels .

I always believed hard boiled eggs "bound you up" 
BUT ,
 the GOOGLE says " Some people believe that eggs can cause constipation. However, there is not much scientific evidence that supports this. They are a low fiber food, though, so eating a lot of them may contribute to constipation.

probably wandering slightly off the ait bag topic at this point ,which is unusual for an OOF thread 

[TheBoy]

Maybe I should try again for a scientific experiement, but fortunately for me, Harvester no longer do unlimited eggs with gammon, my potty and botty are please to say....

[dave the builder]

Maybe I should try again for a scientific experiment, but fortunately for me, Harvester no longer do unlimited eggs with gammon, my potty and botty are please to say....

probably best to stick to one egg a day 
Any scientific experiment would mean we'd probably have to read about the "results" here on OOF 

[TheBoy]

Any scientific experiment would mean we'd probably have to read about the "results" here on OOF 

Clearly, from this mornings results, no eggs consumed in the last 24 hours.



Viral_Jim, hows the airbag?

[Viral_Jim]

Viral_Jim, hows the airbag?

It's taken me until tonight to get some diagnostics setup and the VX module installed on it.

After clearing various historical codes, the only one I have left is on the SRS system (no sh!t Sherlock) and it for Drivers airbag squib circuit (stage 1) high resistance.

Reading actual data for some of the circuits on the module I get the following resistance values (expressed in ohm)

Driver's airbag squib stage 1  3.45
Driver's airbag squib stage 2  2.77
Driver's side airbag squib 2.18
Driver's side curtain airbag squib 2.48
Driver's pretensioner squib   2.21

My thoughts (for what they're worth) looking at the values, I don't think it's going to be the under seat plug as this would put the resistance up on a number of circuits as I'm guessing the wiring is shared. Noting that the stage 2 squib resistance is also high, albeit not as high as stage 1, I'm thinking something in the steering column. Dirt in/on the clock spring maybe, meaning power isn't getting through to the wheel as well as it should. Stage 1 is an outer ring, stage 2 is more towards the centre (meaning it's got less crap on it)? I don't know how exactly that part of the car is made up.

That's my thought process, more thoughts would be welcome!

[dave the builder]

I'd unplug/remove the steering wheel airbag  ,then re-check faults

it should confirm  you have the correct faulty circuit
(sometimes some software is confusing about passenger/driver because of LHD and RHD )
IIRC airbag will be 2.2 ish ohms
there is no slip ring/contacts in the wheel ,
 it's a ribbon cable loop I think (so MUST be central when fitting ,or the ribbon tears when you turn the wheel )
check the part numbers on the squib
you don't want to buy zafira A or C bits for a zaf B ,though astra H may be the same part numbers 

this is assuming "someone" hasn't dumped coffee/tea/coke/cider or other liquid(including carpet shampooing)  over the crash module in the center console and corroded the module terminals 
 

[Viral_Jim]

this is assuming "someone" hasn't dumped coffee/tea/coke/cider or other liquid(including carpet shampooing)  over the crash module in the center console and corroded the module terminals 

Thanks Dave, I will diagnose further as you suggest, although not until Wednesday as I need the car to behave tomorrow and Tuesday for drives to the office.

I honestly don't recall any liquid being spilled in the centre console but I a) am not the sole user and b) do have part ownership of an eight year old boy, so anything is possible. if I wanted to check the ECU, how/where would I find it?

[dave the builder]

this is assuming "someone" hasn't dumped coffee/tea/coke/cider or other liquid(including carpet shampooing)  over the crash module in the center console and corroded the module terminals 

Thanks Dave, I will diagnose further as you suggest, although not until Wednesday as I need the car to behave tomorrow and Tuesday for drives to the office.

I honestly don't recall any liquid being spilled in the centre console but I a) am not the sole user and b) do have part ownership of an eight year old boy, so anything is possible. if I wanted to check the ECU, how/where would I find it?

IIRC under the center console by the handbrake ,so it's a console out job ,
plenty of videos on the youtube u'd think

[Doctor Gollum]

Typically it's either under the ashtray at the front of the centre console or behind the handbrake mounting.

Different manufacturers have different approaches, but it makes it less vulnerable in the centre of the car.

The airbag blows in two stages so that you don't get the full monty in the face before the cover has a chance to get out of the way, although we're talking milliseconds 

[TheBoy]

That live data looks like the steering wheel airbag, but there are a number of components involved.

With battery disconnected, and the airbag itself disconnected, meter through the circuit through the contactor.  I'd be wary putting a meter on an actual airbag squib - a DVM shouldn't set it off, but it could be a nasty accident if an unrestrained airbag does deploy.

If it meters good from ECU plug to airbag squib plug, I'd be looking at a replacement airbag unit - I have seen them go slightly high resistance before.

You might be lucky, and just the act of unplugging, and plugging back in could fix resistance issues.  But disconnect the battery first!

[Doctor Gollum]

Did GM fit any Takata airbags

[Viral_Jim]

Thanks all, I'm not now in t'office tomorrow so I'll have a play in the afternoon.

Tb, I will check as advised. If it is the rotary connector, other forums seem to indicate it can only be bought as part of a larger module, like the one linked below. Anyone know if this is the case or if I can get it separately?


https://www.megavaux.co.uk/p10140_cim-module-a05-dual-airbag-2connectors-433mhz

If not I'd be tempted to strip it down and get someone to repair the ribbon...I'm guessing a new CIM would need coding to the car with tech 2? 

[Marks DTM Calib]

You will be hard pushed to fix a flexi circuit board if it is the squib in the CIM (the Zaf B/AstraH have a CIM module which is basically a switch pack to CAN interface so handles all the stalks and wheel switches plus some other bits and has a pass through for the airbag)

[Viral_Jim]

So, further multi-meter led diagnosis has been done and I am now as sure as I can be that its the rotary connector.  Today I have:

• Removed airbag unit, steering wheel and associated shrouds/trim
• Cleaned all contacts that were readily aaccessible
• Checked resistance to ECU from airbag plugs (results within 0.1 ohm of what the diagnostic computer states with airbag connected)
• Partial reassembly (left off shrouds)

So I can rule out the airbag as the issue on this basis. I have come back to the rotary connector as, looking at live resistance data while turning the wheel, resistance on the circuits seems to fluctuate between 2ohm and 5ohm, suggesting the fault lies there. I should have applied this test last time around, but I forgot that the data was live rather than a snapshot  .

A used replacement CIM has been ordered for £25 (new/refurbished ones are £250plus  ). I will report further on progress. 

[dave the builder]

do you have your "car pass" with the unlock code for the ECU 
IIRC Astra H CIMs are coded to the car ,along with many other modules ,fuse box etc
Also not sure if a replacement CIM has to be divorced before fitting 

[Viral_Jim]

So, this one had been 'divorced' ready to fit.

BUT, to save on coding costs, according to an astra H forum (same part number) you can disassemble the CIM, change the rotary connector and build it back up retaining the part of the CIM that pairs to the car.

[dave the builder]

So, this one had been 'divorced' ready to fit.

BUT, to save on coding costs, according to an astra H forum (same part number) you can disassemble the CIM, change the rotary connector and build it back up retaining the part of the CIM that pairs to the car.

That's hood then 
good luck with it

[Viral_Jim]

Finally got an hour this morning to have a play about.

I'm pleased to say that it was pretty straightforward to split the upper and lower parts of the CIM. The 'lid' does indeed contain the rotary connector and basically not a lot else. I was able to swap this over onto my CIM and reinstall with no complaints from the car.

So far so good after a test drive. Its second hand so it's lifespan is obviously unknown, but at £23 delivered its a cheap enough fix.

Thanks for the help all 

[STEMO]

Finally got an hour this morning to have a play about.

I'm pleased to say that it was pretty straightforward to split the upper and lower parts of the CIM. The 'lid' does indeed contain the rotary connector and basically not a lot else. I was able to swap this over onto my CIM and reinstall with no complaints from the car.

So far so good after a test drive. Its second hand so it's lifespan is obviously unknown, but at £23 delivered its a cheap enough fix.

Thanks for the help all 

It's good when something works out like that 

[TheBoy]

Great news.  And even if it doesn't last the life of the car, you'll know where to look first