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[aaronjb]

* I should add this was 2017, before anyone labels me as a Covid 19 carrier.

Hm. In China three years before the outbreak. Weren't you due to go there again, or have been there again, recently?

Clearly not the carrier but rather ground zero  Where's a helpful Admin? Can someone rename Jimmy944 to Typhoid Jimmy?

[STEMO]

I just tell the receptionist something like I have a huge growth on my arsehole, that stops them dead. Then I tell the doctor what's really going on. There is no communication between receptionist and doctor, so they're non the wiser.

But.. how are you getting on with that huge growth? 

It's actually around the front directly opposite said areshole and it hasn't seen huge for quite some years now. 

[STEMO]

* I should add this was 2017, before anyone labels me as a Covid 19 carrier.

Hm. In China three years before the outbreak. Weren't you due to go there again, or have been there again, recently?

Clearly not the carrier but rather ground zero  Where's a helpful Admin? Can someone rename Jimmy944 to Typhoid Jimmy?

Jimmy the virus 

[STEMO]

Ahem.....anyway.....I see fuel prices are down 

[STEMO]

* I should add this was 2017, before anyone labels me as a Covid 19 carrier.

Hm. In China three years before the outbreak. Weren't you due to go there again, or have been there again, recently?

Clearly not the carrier but rather ground zero  Where's a helpful Admin? Can someone rename Jimmy944 to Typhoid Jimmy?

Jimmy the virus 

Viral_Jim.........near enough 

[TheBoy]

Been 124.9 for lorry juice here since long before the media started wanking themselves over an ineffective virus.

[biggriffin]

I'm gonna get shot here, but I also think that 1-2p on income tax would not affect people that much, but would certainly make a difference to the money available for NHS, etc.

You think the NHS is short of money ?
Higher taxation almost always causes more problems than it solves. Every Labour Govt. in history should have learned this lesson, but they never have, which is why most people in work vote Tory.

I think it depends on exactly how much you increase taxation. When it comes to personal tax, we still have some of the lowest rates in Europe, particularly for middle to high earners. That said, if you get towards some of the nonsense Labour tried in the 1970's, its easy to see why people don't play ball.

It doesn't matter what I think. The manifesto promised no rises in NI, Income tax or VAT, so they will have to find more creative ways of squeezing our pips.

Yes, because manifestos are typically set in stone....

TBH, until Labour cotton on to the idea that they first and foremost need a leader who is actually electable, the tories are free to do more or less as they choose.

We are more highly taxed than we have been since the Labour nonsense in the 70,s. Much of the rest of Europe is addicted to ever increasing taxes, which is why their economies are in terminal decline.
As for the NHS. Gormless McRuin more than doubled its budget and made it worse in the process. Its problem isn't money. Its problem is that it doesn't work and cant work in the 21st century. Someone needs to scrap the whole thing and start over again with a clean sheet of paper.
An NHS consultant pretty much told me this less than a fortnight ago. He now tells his patients to completely ignore the wholeNHS appointment system and its associated bureaucracy, and deal with him via personal email as that is the only way he can even attempt to give his patients the treatment they need.

 We are taxed more indirectly, than directly, that's why council tax goes up every year,so councils get shouted at not HMG.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

As for the NHS. Gormless McRuin more than doubled its budget and made it worse in the process. Its problem isn't money. Its problem is that it doesn't work and cant work in the 21st century. Someone needs to scrap the whole thing and start over again with a clean sheet of paper.

This I agree with, in part. Its biggest issues are a) advancements in medical science, which are expensive and people believe should be provided free at the point of use, most of which link to quality of life, which was not in the remit of the original NHS. b) a rapidly ageing population. Only about half of employed people pay any income tax at all (and about 1/3 is paid by the top 1% of earners). While it has been funded comparatively well of late, what hasn't been is social care, particularly for adults, which pushes a significant burden onto the NHS for activities which, by rights should never have been with its remit.

NHS inefficiency is probably the most well loved UK cliche but if you compare it to other systems, it is reasonably efficient, but doesn't produce as strong health outcomes as some other systems.

This argument is a red herring.

The burden of tax as  a percentage of earnings has always fallen on the poor.

For example. When the poor man fills his shagged out old Vectra   with petrol he pays the same tax  and VAT as the rich man. However, as a proportion of his wages the poor man pays far more.

Besides, most wealthy people and business corporations employ bent tax lawyers to avoid paying tax in the first place. Just look at Amazon and Starbucks, they pay SFA. 

 

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Whats the point of letting politicians take your money. They only waste it. Might as well hang on to it if you can and spend it how you see fit. You did earn it after all.

[STEMO]

As for the NHS. Gormless McRuin more than doubled its budget and made it worse in the process. Its problem isn't money. Its problem is that it doesn't work and cant work in the 21st century. Someone needs to scrap the whole thing and start over again with a clean sheet of paper.

This I agree with, in part. Its biggest issues are a) advancements in medical science, which are expensive and people believe should be provided free at the point of use, most of which link to quality of life, which was not in the remit of the original NHS. b) a rapidly ageing population. Only about half of employed people pay any income tax at all (and about 1/3 is paid by the top 1% of earners). While it has been funded comparatively well of late, what hasn't been is social care, particularly for adults, which pushes a significant burden onto the NHS for activities which, by rights should never have been with its remit.

NHS inefficiency is probably the most well loved UK cliche but if you compare it to other systems, it is reasonably efficient, but doesn't produce as strong health outcomes as some other systems.

This argument is a red herring.

The burden of tax as  a percentage of earnings has always fallen on the poor.

For example. When the poor man fills his shagged out old Vectra   with petrol he pays the same tax  and VAT as the rich man. However, as a proportion of his wages the poor man pays far more.

Besides, most wealthy people and business corporations employ bent tax lawyers to avoid paying tax in the first place. Just look at Amazon and Starbucks, they pay SFA. 

 

This was JC's assertion in the bible...........and look what happened to him. 

[Rods2]

As for the NHS. Gormless McRuin more than doubled its budget and made it worse in the process. Its problem isn't money. Its problem is that it doesn't work and cant work in the 21st century. Someone needs to scrap the whole thing and start over again with a clean sheet of paper.

This I agree with, in part. Its biggest issues are a) advancements in medical science, which are expensive and people believe should be provided free at the point of use, most of which link to quality of life, which was not in the remit of the original NHS. b) a rapidly ageing population. Only about half of employed people pay any income tax at all (and about 1/3 is paid by the top 1% of earners). While it has been funded comparatively well of late, what hasn't been is social care, particularly for adults, which pushes a significant burden onto the NHS for activities which, by rights should never have been with its remit.

NHS inefficiency is probably the most well loved UK cliche but if you compare it to other systems, it is reasonably efficient, but doesn't produce as strong health outcomes as some other systems.

This argument is a red herring.

The burden of tax as  a percentage of earnings has always fallen on the poor.

For example. When the poor man fills his shagged out old Vectra   with petrol he pays the same tax  and VAT as the rich man. However, as a proportion of his wages the poor man pays far more.

Besides, most wealthy people and business corporations employ bent tax lawyers to avoid paying tax in the first place. Just look at Amazon and Starbucks, they pay SFA. 

 

Companies articles of association will be along the lines of making profits and paying dividends & to maximise the shareholders dividends, which is a directors fundicial duty. If they don't minimise the tax they pay according to HMG corporate tax guides then they can quite rightly be sued by the shareholders & being US companies the first thing with any perceived shareholder gripe is to reach for your lawyer.

Lord Opti obviously feels he is not getting enough free stuff from HMG, where he should be legally able to steal more of other peoples hard earned economic output.

If I'm earning over £150k a year & pay myself dividends from each £100k earned beyond this. then this is the tax you will pay:

£100,000 x 0.8 = £80,000. VAT on sales
£80,000 x 0.81 = £64,800. 19% advanced corporation tax where you can only pay dividends out of profits.
£64,800 x 0.625 = £42,750. 37.5% Income tax.
£42,750 x 0.8 = £34,200. When you actually use the personal money to buy something useful which will then mostly attract VAT.

So out of your £100,000 of hard earned economic output you get to spend £34,200 & the government steals £65,800. If you sensibly have the red line that you keep a minimum of 50.1% of your economic output then you move to IOM, Channel Islands, Virgin Islands et al, Monorco (there is a waiting list so it can take time to do this), Dubai or Singapore. I know quite a few people that have done this & HMG now collects less tax from 45% taxpayers than at 40%, but of course to the left it is not about raising revenue, but appeasing their jealousy & punishing entrepreneurs risk taking, skill, hard work & success where they use our capitalist system to have a comfortable life. Many at the same time will also relocate some or all of their business interests so the UK gets poorer & wage inflation/standard of living for mr & mrs average is reduced. UK still attracts inward investment where is is the least worst in Western Europe for this and where we speak the global language of business English. GMT is also an advantage with +/- 12 hours East to West for time zones.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

What annoys me is how deferential the government (both Labour and Tory) is to big business, and how little tax they are made to pay. HMRC and big business will have a 'cosy little chat'  and agree on a paltry insignificant figure. Then it is smiles all round.

When I have a dispute with a taxman he tells me he will cut off my balls if I don't pay. I will then be sent to prison to share my 'shower time' with an assortment of sodomites and murderers.

Oh to be wealthy.

[aaronjb]

Oh to be wealthy.

Wealthy starts lower down than you think - if you own your own home, many would consider you wealthy

I definitely fall into that category, which means the tax man bends me over ever year and, trust me, there is no escaping that.

I think what you mean is either:
Oh to be a business with a large turnover, or;
Oh to be in the top 0.5%

(See where you fall - remember it includes the value of your home: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_in_the_United_Kingdom#Wealth)

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Oh to be wealthy.

Wealthy starts lower down than you think - if you own your own home, many would consider you wealthy

I definitely fall into that category, which means the tax man bends me over ever year and, trust me, there is no escaping that.

I think what you mean is either:
Oh to be a business with a large turnover, or;
Oh to be in the top 0.5%

(See where you fall - remember it includes the value of your home: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_in_the_United_Kingdom#Wealth)

[/highlight]

That can't be right, Aaron. Those figures put me in the top 1%.

I am fortunate to own more than one property but they are quite modest.

I consider myself pretty average.

[Andy B]

....
Oh to be in the top 0.5%

(See where you fall - remember it includes the value of your home: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_in_the_United_Kingdom#Wealth)

There was one of these telly programmes the other day where 2 families, poles apart, swapped lifestyles. Can't think what the 'poor' family did, but he earned c£25k, but in the 'rich' family, he was a surgeon/consultant  and she was a general 'entrepreneur' and were in the top 1% of earners.
They swapped holidays ... a week in Isle of Wight vs a week's safari in Africa. The 'cheap holiday' was a little under £1000 but the expensive holiday was just shy of £27000 ....  for a week's holiday!!!!!

There are definitely the HAVES and the HAVE NOTS