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[greg123]

Hi guys,

I went through a bit of this before I bought my last big car, I eventually went for the Volvo 960 3.0 24v on the grounds of a) price b) fantastic build quality/no rust c) fantastic crash protection/solidness and d) the beautiful super compact super simple and easy to work on all alloy straight 6 engine (a much superior engine to the Merc's offering).  Eventually sold it due to the body design being too old (poor aerodynamics mean low top speed and lots of wind noice, not the best suspension, well balanced and very safe but not 'fluid' and fair bit of body roll, also poor brakes compared to modern stuff, plus I went to diesels on vegetable oil for a mix of environmental and cost reasons).

In all other ways the Merc was better, eg ride, comfort, etc.  The engine and box were too old fashioned though.  I nearly went for an omega as it has a newer body and better aerodynamics than either of those (though the Merc is pretty good) but the quality (rust, things broken, seats wearing, trim issues) in my price range wasn't so good and with similar performance the much simpler/easier to work on construction of the Volvo bullet proof inline 6 won me over (I'm a mechanic).

That said... I always liked the Omega and I may be looking at getting on again, but only if I can find a decent direct injection diesel to put in, mainly thinking of the 2.9 5cyl Merc engine from a sprinter coupled to an auto box.  It would fetch between 140 to 200bhp in 'warm' fettle with around double the torque of the Omega's 3.2v6.  I'm an alternative fuels man which cramps my engine choice slightly, the merc engines are good on veg/biodiesel and very economic, they also push a LWB high roof sprinter along at 100mph in the 120hp versions, so I'm guessing in a car body a warmer engine would be more than quick enough.

The Omega 2.5d would be an option but I'm a little unsure of how durable the BMW engine is.  The Merc comes with an excellent 3.0d but in the uk no turbo, so I'd want to do a turbo conversion.  I would be considering the 5-series here only the estate isn't big enough and it's the same engine as in the omega so I figured that really rules the 5-series out as I'd be better off with an Omega.

Question is, especially as I'm probably looking at a merc engine, how would you rate the Omega up against the last 'proper' merc, the 1986 - 1995 E class (w124) IF anyone has had both/had access to a w124 and knows what I mean by 'smooth ride, very solid'.  It would be very easy to drop a merc engine in a merc body on a merc box....

How much better in general respects is the Omega facelift to the original one?  If I got one I would want the Elite Estate, either one with a blown engine or cheap enough to do my engine swap (fairly simple on a rwd car and the 5 cyl engine shouldn't stretch the bonnet space much) OR think about tarting up a 2.5d estate (do they come in elite?) towards the 200bhp (been done in Range Rovers with but a chip and intercooler) and a veg conversion.  Also it would have to be auto.  I'm thinking a nice late diesel may be thousands more than a high miles 3.2 petrol, which is something to consider when £500 could buy me a a nice diesel engine and box....

Any suggestions apprecaited.  Also any info about the crash protection of the later Omega's, the early one wasn't amazing and I can't find any NCAP tests of the post 2000 stuff.

Greg.

[Marks DTM Calib]

Early one was NCAP 3 stars with excellent passenger protection.....from minifacelift (approx 1998) it jumped to 4 stars witha the addition of side airbags etc....

[Chopsdad]

I can't comment much, but I believe a Diesel Elite is like finding Rocking Horse shit and NCAP on my 2003 Facelift is only 3 according to Top Gear anyway

Taxi Driver has experience of Omega's and Merc's and others here will comment on the engine swap  

[Chopsdad]

You may also find this thread interesting http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1169504175

[Marks DTM Calib]

I can't comment much, but I believe a Diesel Elite is like finding Rocking Horse shit and NCAP on my 2003 Facelift is only 3 according to Top Gear anyway

Top gear wrong as usual.....

http://www.euroncap.com/content/safety_ratings/details.php?id1=4&id2=53

Note, the comment about the addition of side airbags resulting in a 4 star rating.....

[greg123]

Okay that's interesting, but how does the omega compare to the w124?  As if I'm not going to find a diesel auto elite estate then I'm going to need to slide an engine in.

Of course if I went with the bmw engine, I guess I could slide one out of a cheap saloon and into an elite estate with all the bits needed to fit....

Greg.

[Markjay]

Early one was NCAP 3 stars with excellent passenger protection.....from minifacelift (approx 1998) it jumped to 4 stars witha the addition of side airbags etc....

AFAIK, only the pre-facelift was NCAP tested, and the results were 3-star with one airbag or 4-star with two airbags. However, because the passenger airbag was not standard feature on all models (I think the GLS didn't have one?), Opel were only allowed to officially describe the car as 3-star. Only once the passenger airbag became standard feature on all models (was it on the facelift or as early as the mini-facelift?), the car could officially be described as 4-star.

Interestingly, side airbags only came later (from the mini-facelift onwards I think), so in fact the car that was NCAP tested got the 4-star rating with two airbags but before the side airbags... so the actual protection level with all four airbags should be 4-star plus.

Where I think the Omega was legging behind the 'prestige' cars on safety, is not in the NCAP department, which as mentioned takes into account only standard features, but in the safety options list. From 2000 upwards, most execs were offered with optional additional airbags (up to 10 airbags, including side screens etc on some models), and other safety-related options such as ESP etc.

You could argue how important these features actually are, but this is not the point - what matters is that to the 'spoilt' customer the short safety-related options list for the Omega compared to the likes of Merc, BMW, Audi, and even VW gave a very negative image of the Omega, not only as being outclassed but also gave the impression that Opel/Vx were not 'minded' about safety.

 

[Paul M]

If I ever set up my own car manufacturing company I'm going to design a car with 1000 airbags... I'll be the saviour of the world, never mind that the car can only manage 5 MPG at a constant 55 MPH due to the huge weight, "I'm alright Jack, my car has 1000 airbags"  

What a rediculous p155ing contest The safest car on the road is the one with a big spike protruding from the dash that stops just short of the driver's b0llox

[greg123]

I presume from your comments you haven't had a friend killed in a car with no airbags that folded up upon impact, or been in a car that rolled onto it's roof (literally rolled, not crashed) and crushed the passenger side down to the level of the bonnet, resulting in a neck injury to a friend of mine.

Crash protection isn't important till you lose someone, then all of a sudden mpg doesn't seem the most important factor.  Volvo had it right producing very strong and safe cars that could also be quick (eg the sdt trim V70 t5 with 300bhp).

Greg.

[Marks DTM Calib]

I presume from your comments you haven't had a friend killed in a car with no airbags that folded up upon impact, or been in a car that rolled onto it's roof (literally rolled, not crashed) and crushed the passenger side down to the level of the bonnet, resulting in a neck injury to a friend of mine.

No airbag will protect you from that.

The key safety point on the Omega is the very rigid frame.....the ncap results even comment on this as it has full structural members through the roof and floor plus virtual ones through the doors thanks to the side impact bars.... struturaly...its a very strong car!

[Markjay]

There is no denying that airbags, pre-tensioners, crumble zones etc all improve passive safety.

But the single most important factor for passive safety is still size and weight... there is no way around the fact that everything else being equal a large heavy car will protect it's occupants better than a small one.

NCAP testing is standardized within the class but NOT across all classes, so a 3-Star rated exec is in absolute terms more safe than a 5-Star supermini.

Of the crashes I was involved in, one was in an Alfasud, i.e. fast but small car, I dropped-off a passenger just minutes before the crash and had she still been in the car she would have died on the spot. The other crash I was in a C-class Merc (a mate was driving), and had I been in the Alfasud I would have died...

So 3-Star or 4-Star,  the Omega stays

Incidentally, we havn't even covered passive safety....

[Auto Addict]

Incidentally, we havn't even covered passive safety....

....or pictures.....

[Markjay]

Incidentally, we havn't even covered passive safety....

....or pictures.....

Indeed - I am looking for someone to volunteer their Omega for my 'depleted airbag' picture shoot...  

[Paul M]

I presume from your comments you haven't had a friend killed in a car with no airbags that folded up upon impact, or been in a car that rolled onto it's roof (literally rolled, not crashed) and crushed the passenger side down to the level of the bonnet, resulting in a neck injury to a friend of mine.

Crash protection isn't important till you lose someone, then all of a sudden mpg doesn't seem the most important factor.  Volvo had it right producing very strong and safe cars that could also be quick (eg the sdt trim V70 t5 with 300bhp).

Greg.

No but as Mark points out those are structural rigidity issues. I just think so much of this stuff is marketing hype... is a 10 airbag car really safer than an 8 airbag one? Especially if the 8 airbag car is a better physical design, but then that doesn't sound so good in the adverts so from a business point of view 10 airbags is better regardless of whether or not it's safer. It's an arms race, one that reminds me of Intel with their "netburst" Pentium 4 processors: It doesn't matter how much work you're doing in each clock cycle, as long as you've got more of them because people just see the numbers without looking deeper into what it actually means. 3 GHz must be better than 2 GHz, right?

Until recently I happily drove a car with no airbags, it was an old-school Audi which instead had a very clever system called "procon-ten" to prevent the driver's head hitting the steering wheel. For me that was enough as the big danger is hitting the steering wheel so with that risk removed I was very content driving a car without airbags. My BMW has 2 and my Omega has 4, but if anything I'd rather be in the BMW in a major smash as I'd imagine (with no scientific basis) it's more rigid and will come off better all else being equal. But at the end of the day driving is a risk that I'm prepared to take, if I was so concerned about safety I certainly wouldn't have a bike which is much more dangerous than even the most basic car - but the reality is that danger does make you drive (or ride) much more defensively and be more pro-active about anticipating potential hazards which are often due to others' mistakes.

[Martin_1962]

I presume from your comments you haven't had a friend killed in a car with no airbags that folded up upon impact, or been in a car that rolled onto it's roof (literally rolled, not crashed) and crushed the passenger side down to the level of the bonnet, resulting in a neck injury to a friend of mine.

No airbag will protect you from that.

The key safety point on the Omega is the very rigid frame.....the ncap results even comment on this as it has full structural members through the roof and floor plus virtual ones through the doors thanks to the side impact bars.... struturaly...its a very strong car!

Both Mark and me have been in accidents - the Omega is VERY strong

[SMS01]

38 Ton truck hit my post facelift miggy last March. Car a write off, front crumpled nicely reducing a good foot of the length, drivers side protection beams didn't shift even though the outside bodywork formed around them. Side airbag worked even though I didn't notice it until I got back into the car...

Result, few minor glass cuts across forehead where airbag didn't shield from flying glass and a mildly stiff neck for a few days.

When the crash happened I remember thinking 'ok, lets see where I end up' whilst feeling very safe otherwise.

Wouldn't want to have a crash in a smaller car regardless of its test performance. The Omega fits around you nicely and has proven time and time again to be an excellent protector of its occupants.