Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: grifter on 15 November 2016, 18:52:14
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Hi Guys/Gulls
I have just joined as am very keen to purchase a 24 v6 CD Omega Auto, it's relatively low miles, looks in good nick, verified miles and MOT, which is out to April 17.
I am looking for some pointers as for things to check apart from the obvious things. Do you have a guide on here I can go through? I'm an ex mechanic and run several other cars including have an old 3.0 senator and a few cavys too so got the mechanical know how, and "the feel" of the vauxhall way of making things! Omegas I've no experience with but I'm sure they are just senators with a lot more electrical gubbins and a v6 instead of ------ 6 :)
Hopefully I get it and can get a bit more active in here.
Ta for now
G
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Given the age, its fair to say it'll need some mechanical work. Which sounds like you're more than capable of :y
Thus I'd be look for corrosion issues mainly, knowing that front suspension will need some work due to age...
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Given the age, its fair to say it'll need some mechanical work. Which sounds like you're more than capable of :y
Thus I'd be look for corrosion issues mainly, knowing that front suspension will need some work due to age...
I'll be sure to take my torch and maybe a sneaky screwdriver for prodding lol! What's the usual places, more or less same as senator i.e. everywhere! ?
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rear wheel arches, rear doors where they meet rear arches, front chassis legs
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and concealed under the plastic sill covers.
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Ok, will be taking my fine tooth comb too then ;)
What about leccy stuff, anything I should watch for apart from obvious?
thanks guys
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Check that the ABS and airbag indicator lamps illuminate (and then go out again) when the ignition is switched on. Check that the speedo works.
The ABS ecu has some tiny silver wires inside that can fracture and cause intermittent loss of speedo, ABS, servotronic power steering and traction control. (the last 2 weren't fitted to the CD models AFAIK).
If someone turns the ignition on with an airbag or sensor disconnected it will bring up a fault which can be cleared with Tech2 but often results in the bulb being removed instead.......
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Check that the ABS and airbag indicator lamps illuminate (and then go out again) when the ignition is switched on. Check that the speedo works.
The ABS ecu has some tiny silver wires inside that can fracture and cause intermittent loss of speedo, ABS, servotronic power steering and traction control. (the last 2 weren't fitted to the CD models AFAIK).
If someone turns the ignition on with an airbag or sensor disconnected it will bring up a fault which can be cleared with Tech2 but often results in the bulb being removed instead.......
Thanks
G
Great info Andy, will check that too. I'm also reading the various forums for common problems.
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Could this low mileage example, be the same one another member from Scotland saw on gumtree, and walked away.
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Check that the ABS and airbag indicator lamps illuminate (and then go out again) when the ignition is switched on. Check that the speedo works.
The ABS ecu has some tiny silver wires inside that can fracture and cause intermittent loss of speedo, ABS, servotronic power steering and traction control. (the last 2 weren't fitted to the four cylinder models AFAIK).
If someone turns the ignition on with an airbag or sensor disconnected it will bring up a fault which can be cleared with Tech2 but often results in the bulb being removed instead.......
Fixed for accuracy ;)
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Could this low mileage example, be the same one another member from Scotland saw on gumtree, and walked away.
I don't know, do you a link or description?
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Try here http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=137788.0 (http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=137788.0)
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So at lunch from work I went over and seen it. I never told the guy I was coming so he wouldn't preheat it. I know some people do this in case the engine is clanky when cold or struggle to start.
Got the key sat in it and looked at the dash. Obviously not very familiar with dash and display but I seen the abs lights and some other lights, then I started it, no worrying sounds or anything like that and lights went out. Popped the hood and had a look around, looked quite clean under bonnet, coolant looks fine and right on the level indicator, then after a wee bit more looking I came up with some things 1) Little vac pipe that goes into the 3 way valve for the brake servo, was hissing a wee bit, and had some tape round it. 2) Broken top headlight securing clip on O/S, 3) Little bit of corrosion starting on O/S inner wing where it meets chassis leg.
So after that I went back in and had a bit of a play about with the stuff on the dash, after a while I decided I don't know what I was doing so, instead of romanticising, decided to go and check the arches, under the sills and in the boot.
From what I could feel/see there didn't seem to be anything sinister hidden, wee tiny bit of bubbling starting on back door lip where it meets the arch on N/S, maybe a wee bit of flaking paint starting at the back of sills as is common with more or less all Vauxhalls I've had.
Then I went to the boot with key in hand and stood there saying ok where is key hole lol. Figured must be a release in car, and there is a big square button side of radio panel but no workie, the guy said use the key fob thing and that will get it. So in the boot and not much to see, very clean, looked unused and spare looked the original as well.
Back discs look well worn out as well. Plus there is no service history. Interior is immaculate and the overall condition of it reflects the relatively low mileage.
Never got chance to check speedo, going to go over tomorrow and have a better look with a torch in engine bay plus going to ask if he can let me take a ride round the block on Friday or something when I get out of work early.
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Try here http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=137788.0 (http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=137788.0)
100% that is not the same one. The logbook says last owner from 2005 to 2015 was in Campbeltown, which is closer to Ireland then here in Central Belt.
I have the chance to try and contact the owner maybe find out anything more about it's history.
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So at lunch from work I went over and seen it. I never told the guy I was coming so he wouldn't preheat it. I know some people do this in case the engine is clanky when cold or struggle to start.
Got the key sat in it and looked at the dash. Obviously not very familiar with dash and display but I seen the abs lights and some other lights, then I started it, no worrying sounds or anything like that and lights went out. Popped the hood and had a look around, looked quite clean under bonnet, coolant looks fine and right on the level indicator, then after a wee bit more looking I came up with some things 1) Little vac pipe that goes into the 3 way valve for the brake servo, was hissing a wee bit, and had some tape round it. 2) Broken top headlight securing clip on O/S, 3) Little bit of corrosion starting on O/S inner wing where it meets chassis leg.
So after that I went back in and had a bit of a play about with the stuff on the dash, after a while I decided I don't know what I was doing so, instead of romanticising, decided to go and check the arches, under the sills and in the boot.
From what I could feel/see there didn't seem to be anything sinister hidden, wee tiny bit of bubbling starting on back door lip where it meets the arch on N/S, maybe a wee bit of flaking paint starting at the back of sills as is common with more or less all Vauxhalls I've had.
Then I went to the boot with key in hand and stood there saying ok where is key hole lol. Figured must be a release in car, and there is a big square button side of radio panel but no workie, the guy said use the key fob thing and that will get it. So in the boot and not much to see, very clean, looked unused and spare looked the original as well.
Back discs look well worn out as well. Plus there is no service history. Interior is immaculate and the overall condition of it reflects the relatively low mileage.
Never got chance to check speedo, going to go over tomorrow and have a better look with a torch in engine bay plus going to ask if he can let me take a ride round the block on Friday or something when I get out of work early.
Try holding button down for about 5 seconds, it,s caught a few people out, including me. ::)
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Hi Guys/Gulls
I have just joined as am very keen to purchase a 24 v6 CD Omega Auto, it's relatively low miles, looks in good nick, verified miles and MOT, which is out to April 17.
I am looking for some pointers as for things to check apart from the obvious things. Do you have a guide on here I can go through? I'm an ex mechanic and run several other cars including have an old 3.0 senator and a few cavys too so got the mechanical know how, and "the feel" of the vauxhall way of making things! Omegas I've no experience with but I'm sure they are just senators with a lot more electrical gubbins and a v6 instead of ------ 6 :)
Hopefully I get it and can get a bit more active in here.
Ta for now
G
What cavs are you running grifter ?
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Try holding button down for about 5 seconds, it,s caught a few people out, including me. ::)
That worked thanks!
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What cavs are you running grifter ?
Hi EMD I'm running a 1.8 ls and have a diplomat 2.0 auto, which is garaged right now.
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I did intend to pop in to have more of a look today at lunch time but the shop was shut so I came back about half 4 and he was there. First thing I done was shine the torch down the back of the chassis legs in the engine. Strange thing I seen down the N/S at the back was water coming down onto the chassis leg at the very back. It had been raining. There wasn't any rust but it looked like the water was coming out near the bulkhead. Is there a water drain there or has it found it's way from somewhere else?
Tyres on front are toast, the inner threads of the tyre are showing on the inner edges, and on the outer edges, while not exposing the carcass of the tyre, are baldy. There is a little tread on the middle but as I said they are well beyond legal. I'd said to him that likely the front arms need redone. He said he didn't hear anything while on the road, like any clunks. So would the worn tyres, on the inside especially, point to bushes worn out?
Another thing I came across was in the engine bay. I turned ignition on, but didn't start, went round and opened bonnet, had a wee quick check before going to start it and I heard this buzz sound like an electric motor but a bit rougher, maybe like a stepper motor, from the top of the engine. Sort of like a fuel pump prime sound or something. What could that be. It did stop after a few seconds. It buzzed for a second, then off then again and then that was it.
What I did also notice when engine was cold running was it sounded a bit piston slappy when I gave it a little rev. I'm taking it these engines are not "BMW 6 cylinder" smooth, especially when cold? It didn't sound mechanically anything wrong just maybe a wee bit noisier than I'd expect from a newer type v6. I've no knowledge of these so nothing to base it on.
So got a test drive tomorrow - he can drive it with those tyres like that lol as I don't want my collar felt.
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The worn tyres are a combination of bad wishbone bushes, worn track-rods and shock absorbers and consequent poor alignment.
These are typical Omega problems, and are why we suggest that you should always budget for a front end rebuild(wishbones, shocks and their bearings/top mounts, track rods all at the same time) followed by an alignment by someone who knows what they are doing, on any new-to-you example.
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There is a "flap" in the n/s of the scuttle panel,which gives access to the pollen filter.In the bottom n/s corner of this space there is indeed a scuttle drain which empties to [obviously] the n/s.Check the drain isn't blocked-it doesn't sound like it is-as if the space fills with water it over flows into the car and generally takes the heater "hedgehog" out.
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The worn tyres are a combination of bad wishbone bushes, worn track-rods and shock absorbers and consequent poor alignment.
These are typical Omega problems, and are why we suggest that you should always budget for a front end rebuild(wishbones, shocks and their bearings/top mounts, track rods all at the same time) followed by an alignment by someone who knows what they are doing, on any new-to-you example.
And worthwhile doing the rear trackrods as well... Get it set up right once.;)
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The Omega will sail through an MOT with knackered wishbone bushes because they are all but hidden inside the subframe. Budget to fit a pair of GM bushes at the rear of wishbones and a pair of polyurethane bushes at the front and be pleasantly surprised at the transformation.
Inner edge front tyre wear is caused by too much front camber. It is adjustable but garages either flat out refuse to adjust it or set it to the official figures (which are way out). Sort out the bushes first, then the camber then the toe then fit some new tyres.
If you are looking at a 2.6 or a 3.2 drive-by-wire I thing the whirring noise is the throttle doing a self test :-\ (I don't think a CD will have an air compressor for self levelling suspension)
My current 2.6 sounds slappy when it is cold but I don't know if it is pistons or cam followers or something else - it has done over 200,000 miles now and sounded exactly the same when I bought it at 115,000 miles.
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The worn tyres are a combination of bad wishbone bushes, worn track-rods and shock absorbers and consequent poor alignment.
These are typical Omega problems, and are why we suggest that you should always budget for a front end rebuild(wishbones, shocks and their bearings/top mounts, track rods all at the same time) followed by an alignment by someone who knows what they are doing, on any new-to-you example.
I guess it's easier to get the bushes rather than whole arms, so a set of bushes, top bearings, shocks and tracks. Are we talking the 4 wheel alignment? I got mine done at kwik fit on the senator, they front N/S is still well out as the tyre is scrubbing on the inside and it slides at the drop of a hat on a wet roundabout i.e. front lets go. In other words would it be wise to body swerve kwik fit and go to a specialist?
There is a "flap" in the n/s of the scuttle panel,which gives access to the pollen filter.In the bottom n/s corner of this space there is indeed a scuttle drain which empties to [obviously] the n/s.Check the drain isn't blocked-it doesn't sound like it is-as if the space fills with water it over flows into the car and generally takes the heater "hedgehog" out.
Bit scary that it drips onto the chassis leg and seems to run down inside it, I think there is drain hole below the ABS unit - think it was abs unit - could hear it draining down.
The Omega will sail through an MOT with knackered wishbone bushes because they are all but hidden inside the subframe. Budget to fit a pair of GM bushes at the rear of wishbones and a pair of polyurethane bushes at the front and be pleasantly surprised at the transformation.
Inner edge front tyre wear is caused by too much front camber. It is adjustable but garages either flat out refuse to adjust it or set it to the official figures (which are way out). Sort out the bushes first, then the camber then the toe then fit some new tyres.
If you are looking at a 2.6 or a 3.2 drive-by-wire I thing the whirring noise is the throttle doing a self test :-\ (I don't think a CD will have an air compressor for self levelling suspension)
My current 2.6 sounds slappy when it is cold but I don't know if it is pistons or cam followers or something else - it has done over 200,000 miles now and sounded exactly the same when I bought it at 115,000 miles.
You might see I mentioned my senator 4 wheel alignment above in reply to Nick. I only discovered the senny had this adjustment after I had removed the strut bolts, when I was refitting I noticed that with the top bolt in the hub the strut was still lurching back and forth until it hit the bolt. I had no marks on strut holes for bolt as it was new struts, oops. I wasn't sure of setting so I bought these offset bolts and got kwik fit guy to do 4 wheel alignment, where the front at least N/S is still well out even though his print out had the little green. I take it it is exact same set up on omega?
I did think that noise was some sort of self test, it did sound right on top where throttle body is. While on that subject I checked around engine fittings and none of the little torx screws look chewed up or anything as if it's been apart before, and no signs of bodging electrics or anything else, apart from a wee bit of tape round that vac pipe on brake servo pipe.
Well test drive tomorrow, see how that goes.
Many thanks for all your advice so far, appreciate it very much and is invaluable of course when setting out to buy a car you are n't that familiar with.
Will let you know how it goes tomorrow.
G
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The problem with these 'old' cars is deciding whether you trust/believe the seller. If they tell you it's had recent front end rebuild and a new timing kit, then great you're good to go for another 20-40K miles without having to spend much on new parts. However, if you don't trust them, or if they say it hasn't been done then it can get expensive.
I think I read this car is 78K miles? If so, then has the timing belt been done recently? Service interval is 40K so it's either due to be done soon, or has been done recently?
My finger in the air costings of stuff I'd want to do are...
Timing Belt & Water Pump £300
Front wishbones £100 a pair
Drop links & track rods - £100 ish.
Shocks - dunno - anywhere between £10 and £500 each.
Tyres - 2 or 4 off at £100 each (for a decent brand)
Brake pads and discs - £100 an axle.
Standard service (Oil, Oil filter, fuel filter, spark plugs) - £50 ish.
So you could easily spend a grand on parts and that doesn't include the cost of fitting them - although it seems you have the skills to do that yourself.
Oh and if you do start working on it yourself, buy yourself a good set of torx box spanners. And read up on changing the fuel filter (those effing stupid clips!). >:(
ETA : Oh and while doing the first oil change I'd be dropping the sump plate off too to make sure the oil pickup is clean of silicone sealant. Relatively simple job, but you'll need the grey sealant to put the sump back on.
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What cavs are you running grifter ?
Hi EMD I'm running a 1.8 ls and have a diplomat 2.0 auto, which is garaged right now.
Got a 1.8 manual club here , 93 vintage in Polar sea blue :y
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Generally "Four Wheel Alignment" means hanging some gauges on rear wheels whilst shining a narrow beam of light or laser from front. This isn't worth shit. Nothing. Zilch.
What you are generally after on an Omega, and certainly if the car is new to you, is a full geometry. The front type shoulder wear is generally camber, although the long arms coupled with aggressive driving does tend to turn Omega fronts into a more, well, motorcycle profile.
Any such alignment specialist needs to understand that the original GM specs were a bit crap to start off with, and are utterly useless as all these cars have aged. So "computer says green, mate" ain't good enough either. Fortunately, there are a handful of outlets around that actually understand what they are doing, not just do what the computer says. We worked with Wheels-InMotion in Buckinghamshire to get a good baseline to work from.
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Generally "Four Wheel Alignment" means hanging some gauges on rear wheels whilst shining a narrow beam of light or laser from front. This isn't worth shit. Nothing. Zilch.
What you are generally after on an Omega, and certainly if the car is new to you, is a full geometry. The front type shoulder wear is generally camber, although the long arms coupled with aggressive driving does tend to turn Omega fronts into a more, well, motorcycle profile.
Any such alignment specialist needs to understand that the original GM specs were a bit crap to start off with, and are utterly useless as all these cars have aged. So "computer says green, mate" ain't good enough either. Fortunately, there are a handful of outlets around that actually understand what they are doing, not just do what the computer says. We worked with Wheels-InMotion in Buckinghamshire to get a good baseline to work from.
That's what the guy at kwik fit done with the senator, all within tolerance (green) yet at least one front was still way out. I will give the guy his dues he was quite genuine and probably really didn't know much more than the manual and computer was telling him plus he seemed a bit confused about the model of car he was adjusting for.
I've been reading up various ideas on the alignment, here's one a guy done for lotus carlton, which is same principal applies to senator, and I guess probably the omega too.
http://www.lotuscarlton.co.uk/camber.htm
I've got the official vx manuals online and it tells procedure there. This include loading up the front seats with 75kg, full tank of fuel, tightening knuckle bolt to certain torque then letting car weight on to it, tighten it higher torque etc. I'd probably end up doing that if I can't find a shop up here who really doesn't know how to do this, plus it's save me cash and I'd learn more!
When I drove it today it seemed quite straight and true on the road although I did at some point feel a little bit jittery when I hit a negative camber bit of road or a bumpy bit. Probably the shagged tyres, potentially worn bushes/track ends didn't help things.
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The Omega does seem a little prone to tramlining, and (assuming suspension is in good condition) its they tyres. Some are awful from new (such as Conti SC5), some are downright lethal when half worn (such as Falken 452).
2 or 3 years ago, chrisgixer did post up a survey for tramlining, and which tyres are more prone on the Omega.
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With polys fitted in the arms at the front and ( after replacing first line bushes after not very long with gm ones) and camber set at 1..10. tyre wear and weird handling is something ive never really experienced.
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So put a deposit down for it now, 800 in readies to clear balance 850 total, should be picking up end of week. I made the right choice joining up lol!
Here's a snap of it
(http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q11/Pichost28/Cars/Omega/omega-side-view_zpsbp4vvczq.jpg) (http://s132.photobucket.com/user/Pichost28/media/Cars/Omega/omega-side-view_zpsbp4vvczq.jpg.html)
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There's something wrong with your camera; the car doesn't look silver?
Does that mean you're paying £1650 for it :o ?
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There's something wrong with your camera; the car doesn't look silver?
Does that mean you're paying £1650 for it :o ?
? Not with you?
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Silver is extreamly rare colour on Omegas ;D ;D
But black is faster
Keith ABS
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& NickW wouldn't pay buttons for an Omega.
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Wow, just got a quote for insurance, £700 (jaw hits floor). I was paying just over 100 for my 3.0 senator with limited mileage also. This quote was for 3k miles a year but then when I queried it and said it was limited mileage he said it's not quite old enough to be a classic. Anyone recommend a sympathetic insurer - if such as thing exists!
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I pay £280 a year fully comp through Adrian Flux, that is with Irmscher Body kit, LPG, and tow bar as modifications, 15000 miles a year, 1 no-fault claim in the last 5 years, 10 years protected NCD.
(but I am 65 and live in a quite country village)
:)
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I pay £280 a year fully comp through Adrian Flux, that is with Irmscher Body kit, LPG, and tow bar as modifications, 15000 miles a year, 1 no-fault claim in the last 5 years, 10 years protected NCD.
(but I am 65 and live in a quite country village)
:)
Sounds more of what I would be expecting. I'm 40, can't see age making much difference, unless under 35. Do you only have that NCD on the one policy? Insurers always say you can't carry your NCD over to other policies, which is a scandal, it's not the car, it's the driver who is claiming.
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I pay £280 a year fully comp through Adrian Flux, that is with Irmscher Body kit, LPG, and tow bar as modifications, 15000 miles a year, 1 no-fault claim in the last 5 years, 10 years protected NCD.
(but I am 65 and live in a quite country village)
:)
Sounds more of what I would be expecting. I'm 40, can't see age making much difference, unless under 35. Do you only have that NCD on the one policy? Insurers always say you can't carry your NCD over to other policies, which is a scandal, it's not the car, it's the driver who is claiming.
Yup, as I only have one car!! I'm listed as a "named driver" on the wife's shopping trolley (clit), as she is on the Omega, but we both have our "own" insurance.
I looked at a multicar policy covering us both on the two cars , but as hers is a repaired write off (uneconomical repair) and mine is modified (irmscher kit, LPG and towbar) none of the multicar companies seemed interested.
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I've read just about enough on this thread. There is only one piece of useful advice....Don't. ;D
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For pete's sake - I got a quote comparison site, swiftcover was best, I couldn't find their number to phone to see if they could better it "over the phone" so I contacted their sister company AXA. Ran through the whole process again and then got declines - wtf? Yet the 2nd cheapest quote in the comparison was....axa!
Might just buy the swiftcover one and be done with it before they change their mind lol or get a cover note just to get it up the road as I do not need it on the road at the moment anyway!
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Should be able to get cover to drive it home through Dayinsure. Costs about £30. :y
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Should be able to get cover to drive it home through Dayinsure. Costs about £30. :y
Did get insurance after all, might of been better getting cover note but done now, need tyres tax and all the other wee things as well. I really shouldn't buy cars just before xmas :) Sheesh cars are expensive even when you can fix them yourself!
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Tyres will have been a waste of money before sorting the wishbones/geometry ::)
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Tyres will have been a waste of money before sorting the wishbones/geometry ::)
Agree. So what I am seeing is it's better to replace with poly bushes?