Topic: Help please (Read 8385 times)

Dai Fish · « **on:** 14 July 2006, 18:15:23 »

Hello all I have only just found the forum yesterday and today I have a problem with the Omega

,

I parked the Omega last night after a run and there was no problem with the car, I went to use it today and it will not start, the engine turns over no problem but it just does not fire up, it does not even try to start if you know what I mean, it just turns and turns for as long as I hold the key open.

Any ideas would be very welcome,I am stuck without the car, its an X reg 2.5V6 CD estate the year is 2000 By the way

Many thanks Dai

TheBoy · « **Reply #1 on:** 14 July 2006, 18:23:20 »

Not sure if you can do it on your car (borderline on it being too new), but have you tried the paperclip test (see FAQ section)

Dai Fish · « **Reply #2 on:** 14 July 2006, 18:27:03 »

I have not tried the paper clip test as I was told it would not work on my car due to it being a year 2000 facelift, I have not had any EM light on and as I said I switched it off with no problem and then it just will not start

TheBoy · « **Reply #3 on:** 14 July 2006, 18:30:29 »

I was wondering that as it had the 2.5 engine, as opposed to the 2.6, paperclip may still work.

Obviously, the EML is on now, as the thing won't start?

TheBoy · « **Reply #4 on:** 14 July 2006, 18:31:46 »

Where are you btw, some members her may have code readers

Dai Fish · « **Reply #5 on:** 14 July 2006, 18:34:20 »

Thanks for the replys yes the EM light is now on as it wont start lol, I am in the Rhondda Valleys in South Wales

TheBoy · « **Reply #6 on:** 14 July 2006, 18:36:29 »

Damn, too far for me

Try paperclip test, it won't do any harm. It will either work or it won't

Markie · « **Reply #7 on:** 14 July 2006, 18:40:11 »

and i have a hunch it may be immobilisor related.......

JasonH · « **Reply #8 on:** 14 July 2006, 18:50:29 »

The paperclip test is likely to work, well it does on my 2000 facelift 2.5 V6.

My instinctive feeling on this one is cranksensor. That won't show on the papeclip test.

Try the car again - you might find it starts just fine. If so it's definitely the cranksensor.

Dai Fish · « **Reply #9 on:** 14 July 2006, 18:50:49 »

now you say that, I remember the alarm went off for no reason last night and yes it does make sense that it could be the imobaliser by the way it just turns over with no kick at all

Markie · « **Reply #10 on:** 14 July 2006, 19:05:44 »

reason for saying that is i dropped my chip out of my key fob when changinf fob battery and got exactly what you got. Including EM light on as you turn it over.

Have you a spare key, is it the same with this.......will allow you to at least determin its the key fob/transmitter or actually the car

Dai Fish · « **Reply #11 on:** 14 July 2006, 19:26:13 »

I don't have a spare key and have just discovered that I don't have the security card thing in with all my documents so cant order a new key until I can sort that with Vauxhall.

The paper clip test I am having trouble with at the min I have had two major ops on my back since March and am having a little trouble getting down to the plug lol but will post the results as soon as I can do it

Many thanks for the replys

Dai Fish · « **Reply #12 on:** 14 July 2006, 19:37:24 »

OK the code that is flashing up is 31 hope this will shed some light on things

STMO123 · « **Reply #13 on:** 14 July 2006, 19:42:20 »

Probably a daft question, but have you checked the batteries in your key fob. As far as I understand, the transponder in the fob has got to be able to 'talk' to the immobiliser.

Dai Fish · « **Reply #14 on:** 14 July 2006, 19:45:42 »

The key fob is locking and unlocking the car without any problem so would not have thought it was a battery issue with the fob but am very willing to try that

STMO123 · « **Reply #15 on:** 14 July 2006, 19:47:45 »

If it's locking and unlocking I wouldn't go to the trouble of replacing the battery, it was just me clutching at straws as usual....

B52 · « **Reply #16 on:** 14 July 2006, 20:10:14 »

Quote

If it's locking and unlocking I wouldn't go to the trouble of replacing the battery, it was just me clutching at straws as usual....

Not sure - I've had a spare key that would lock/unlock remotely but wouldn't start the car. It needed re-programmed.

TheBoy · « **Reply #17 on:** 14 July 2006, 20:17:44 »

The remote c/l has nothing to do with immobiliser. Immboliser transponder is not powered by batteries.

If it was immobiliser, the eml flashes.

My initial gut reaction was crank sensor, though this tend to go a bit intermittent initially.

31 is 'no rpm signal' - which is normal if engine isn't running. Not to say it isn't a cranksensor though, as ecu hasn't detected a signal.

Dai Fish · « **Reply #18 on:** 14 July 2006, 20:44:58 »

it sure is a straing one, I don't think I have read about a crank sensor going quite like this before, are there any other tests I can do to confirm its this.

I guess its a trip to Vauxhall's wonderful over priced parts dept in the morning, just hope they have one in stock

TheBoy · « **Reply #19 on:** 14 July 2006, 21:11:49 »

And there is more than one type, just to make it harder

Laidback will probably be able to tell you what type yours is.

TheBoy · « **Reply #20 on:** 14 July 2006, 21:12:27 »

Have you checked for fuel and sparks?

Matchless · « **Reply #21 on:** 15 July 2006, 00:15:41 »

When cranking the engine does the eml flash? If so then immobiliser is still active (iirc)

Check there is fuel pressure at the schraeder valve, just visible at the back of the plennum.

Otherwise I would go with crank sensor. Code 31 is crank sensor related but it is always present when engine is stopped.

summat · « **Reply #22 on:** 15 July 2006, 08:14:06 »

Quote

Probably a daft question, but have you checked the batteries in your key fob. As far as I understand, the transponder in the fob has got to be able to 'talk' to the immobiliser.

Hmm, not convinced on this - the immobiliser chip on anything this new *should* (ok, there may be exceptions) be powered by the EM field from the immobiliser pickup around the ignition switch/barrel. Batteries in the fob are just for the RCL function.

Markie · « **Reply #23 on:** 15 July 2006, 10:23:10 »

i still stand that it may be immobilisor - if theres a problem the em management light will flash very very quickly - this is exactly wat i experienced. Although its possible crank sensor. :-/

JasonH · « **Reply #24 on:** 15 July 2006, 16:45:19 »

Someone with a problem like this eventually found a problem with the fuel supply - either fuel pump relay, fuse or fuel pump itself.

Salty · « **Reply #25 on:** 15 July 2006, 16:57:48 »

Quote

Someone with a problem like this eventually found a problem with the fuel supply - either fuel pump relay, fuse or fuel pump itself.

Had that problem with SWMBO cavalier a few years ago, got the multi meter on the power lead connections to the fuel pump, no volts found that the relay was duff.

Admin · « **Reply #26 on:** 15 July 2006, 23:12:05 »

Sounds exactly like crank sensor to me.

I can start another debate off with this, but a code 31 (as opposed to 19) means your crank sensor is dead.

No worries, easy job.

You will need the later "round edged" sensor.

Buy one here. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CRANK-CRANKSHAFT-SENSOR-VAUXHALL-OMEGA-NEW_W0QQitemZ4595936678QQihZ002QQcategoryZ10404QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

FAR cheaper than Vauxhall and you can do this job yourself in under half an hour.

markrl · « **Reply #27 on:** 15 July 2006, 23:22:57 »

Before you go rushing off to the Vauxhall Parts department I think I would check a few basics first. Have we got a spark at the plugs? Have we got fuel at the pump? Can we here the pump running? Have you checked for a blown fuse? On a large fuel injected car they flood very quickly once the engine won’t start and its doing lots of cranking, has it now flooded? Remove and clean the plugs.

I would run through the "basic car wont start routine" before moving onto the more technical things. You may well have a Crank Sensor problem but I would check the simple things first. If you don’t you'll likely end up wasting time and money on unnecessary parts. Do what the RAC do, basics first.

x25xe · « **Reply #28 on:** 16 July 2006, 09:46:44 »

Yep, I second that. Basic first is alway good.

On my Omega (2.5V6) I had an issue where sometimes the engine would take a lot of turning over prior to starting. When I replaced the battery I also checked all the relays and extra fuses in the engine compartment. I think that one of them must have been slightly loose as now it starts on the button

(not wishing to temp fate so better touch some wood) :-?

Fuel pump relay is a favourite but I, personally, would go with the crank sensor suggestion. Normally, you do experieance the sensor "breaking down" but a total sudden failure is not unknown.................

HTH

Dai Fish · « **Reply #29 on:** 16 July 2006, 10:23:32 »

Hi sorry I have not got back before now but hurt myself doing the paperclip test (I have just had back surgery) and was laid up all yesterday, many thanks for all the replys guys.

Ok I checked for fuel when it would not start first of all and as far as I can tell everything is as it should be except it wont start so Crank sensor has to be favorite from the replys I have had so will order one first thing in the morning and let you know how I get on once I recieve it.

Again many thanks

Dai

Dai Fish · « **Reply #30 on:** 16 July 2006, 10:44:47 »

One more thing is there a guide to changing the sensor or can anyone give me a rough idea

Many thanks again

Dai

Taxi_Driver · « **Reply #31 on:** 16 July 2006, 18:51:03 »

Quote

Before you go rushing off to the Vauxhall Parts department I think I would check a few basics first. Have we got a spark at the plugs? Have we got fuel at the pump? Can we here the pump running? Have you checked for a blown fuse? On a large fuel injected car they flood very quickly once the engine won’t start and its doing lots of cranking, has it now flooded? Remove and clean the plugs.

I would run through the "basic car wont start routine" before moving onto the more technical things. You may well have a Crank Sensor problem but I would check the simple things first. If you don’t you'll likely end up wasting time and money on unnecessary parts. Do what the RAC do, basics first.

I agree doing basic fault finding is a good way forward.....but if i remember correctly if the ecu detects a prob with the crank (real or duff sensor) it shuts the fuel pump off.....hence why it wont start.
So you wont hear the fuel pump running or get any fuel being pumped

Cheers

TheBoy · « **Reply #32 on:** 16 July 2006, 20:35:45 »

I think it cuts the sparks as well - certainly when my crank sensor died at around 90mph, it was an engine cut, not a cough/splutter of fuel cut.

Also, code 31 is normal for car thats not running (code 31 = no rpm signal, which there wouldn't be is engine wasn't running), code 19 is usually a sign of a failing sensor (19 = invalid signal)

It could be a failed crank sensor (completely failed), but worth checking the basics

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #33 on:** 16 July 2006, 21:57:21 »

If when the engine is being crankced the ECU light flashes then its immobiliser, I suspect its not flashing and simply not starting.

In this case it would be the crank sensor as favourite, code 31 is the key here (and not 19).

It will be the round pin connector type.

As for the your part of Wales, I realy must take a trip down there sometime, some of my family come from the Rhonda (Ystrad - Tintagel Terrace), I keep promising myself I will pop down and take some pics.

Dai Fish · « **Reply #34 on:** 16 July 2006, 22:30:12 »

Many thanks again for the replys, I did as many of the basic checks as I was able and I have a nephew who works as a fitter at a Vauxhall garage and he spoke to the top guy for the Diagnostics and he says exactly the same as you guys that it is a dead crank sensor so I will order one in the morning and hope that will sort it out.

Still would like to know if there are any tips for changing it on the site please

Mark if you want some photos you only have to ask mate I live five mins from there and would take some for you no problem, it would be my pleasure after all the help you have given me in the last 12 months

Admin · « **Reply #35 on:** 17 July 2006, 08:24:05 »

I will take a few pics tonight and do a maintenance guide.

Dai Fish · « **Reply #36 on:** 17 July 2006, 10:06:44 »

Many thanks Laidback

Bernie400 · « **Reply #37 on:** 17 July 2006, 14:37:32 »

just come in on the end of this,

and funnily enougth when the wife went off in the omega this morning (98 2.5) it turned over but no spark. She tried again, nothing. tried a third time and bingo fired up and drove just fine.

so I am a little worried now. are there any more tell tale signs that this sensor is ending its life.

mine has done 101,000 miles and about to embark on a 2 week holiday in cornwall at the end of august. will be doing a full service on the girl before I go, but as I say I now feel somewhat uneasy.

bernie 400

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #38 on:** 17 July 2006, 14:44:41 »

Remember that Women are an impatient breed and rarely let it turn over for long!

Bernie400 · « **Reply #39 on:** 17 July 2006, 14:48:11 »

good point, well made

TheBoy · « **Reply #40 on:** 17 July 2006, 16:35:10 »

Quote

just come in on the end of this,

and funnily enougth when the wife went off in the omega this morning (98 2.5) it turned over but no spark. She tried again, nothing. tried a third time and bingo fired up and drove just fine.

so I am a little worried now. are there any more tell tale signs that this sensor is ending its life.

mine has done 101,000 miles and about to embark on a 2 week holiday in cornwall at the end of august. will be doing a full service on the girl before I go, but as I say I now feel somewhat uneasy.

bernie 400

Check it by starting engine and doing paperclip test (see FAQ). If engine isn't running, you'll get a 31 (no rpm signal) anyway, so must have engine running...

nixoro · « **Reply #41 on:** 17 July 2006, 16:59:09 »

Quote

Quote
just come in on the end of this,

and funnily enougth when the wife went off in the omega this morning (98 2.5) it turned over but no spark. She tried again, nothing. tried a third time and bingo fired up and drove just fine.

so I am a little worried now. are there any more tell tale signs that this sensor is ending its life.

mine has done 101,000 miles and about to embark on a 2 week holiday in cornwall at the end of august. will be doing a full service on the girl before I go, but as I say I now feel somewhat uneasy.

bernie 400
Check it by starting engine and doing paperclip test (see FAQ). If engine isn't running, you'll get a 31 (no rpm signal) anyway, so must have engine running...

Not necessarily my car the paperclip test only works with the ignition turned so the dash lights are on, I tried it with the engine on and it didn't work. I guess it depends on year of the car.

Marks DTM Calib · « **Reply #42 on:** 17 July 2006, 17:04:15 »

You have to remember that the fuel pump doesnt run unless the engine is cranking and hence why the V6 tends to take a little longer to start.

TheBoy · « **Reply #43 on:** 17 July 2006, 17:08:34 »

Quote

Not necessarily my car the paperclip test only works with the ignition turned so the dash lights are on, I tried it with the engine on and it didn't work. I guess it depends on year of the car.

Is yours a 4 pot? v6 works with engine on

nixoro · « **Reply #44 on:** 17 July 2006, 17:14:11 »

Quote

Quote
Not necessarily my car the paperclip test only works with the ignition turned so the dash lights are on, I tried it with the engine on and it didn't work. I guess it depends on year of the car.
Is yours a 4 pot? v6 works with engine on

Yeah that will be why then apologies for duff info, still learning something new each day.

Dai Fish · « **Reply #45 on:** 20 July 2006, 21:24:04 »

Well what can I say you guys came good again lol, had the new crank sensor from autovox today changed it tonight and the car fired up first turn of the key

So I would like to say many many thanks to you all who posted advice for me on this and helped me to get back on the road in my beloved Omega

Dai

TheBoy · « **Reply #46 on:** 20 July 2006, 21:26:21 »

Dai, thanks for posting back the update [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

I'm really pleased your car is sorted again

nixoro · « **Reply #47 on:** 21 July 2006, 10:48:45 »

Quote

Well what can I say you guys came good again lol, had the new crank sensor from autovox today changed it tonight and the car fired up first turn of the key

So I would like to say many many thanks to you all who posted advice for me on this and helped me to get back on the road in my beloved Omega

Dai

Good bit of news there Dai

Glad you got it sorted.

News:

Author Topic: Help please (Read 8385 times)

STMO123

STMO123

Taxi_Driver