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[STEMO]

I have been looking at a selection of Škoda Octavias as a replacement for my astra when the inevitable happens. I want an auto but VAG's DSG box is putting me off.
At the price point I am willing to pay, most of them have done 50-60,000 miles, and I understand the DSG requires a service every 40,000. Would I be stupid to buy one without a documented service history of the box? What are the pitfalls with one that hasn't been done? Thanks.

[Jimbob]

Been impressed with the DSG in her Golf GTI,
Serviced at around 40k now at 66k and always been fine.

If I bought one with no history, and it drove fine, id prob factor in a couple hundred for a gearbox service and hope.

[STEMO]

Been impressed with the DSG in her Golf GTI,
Serviced at around 40k now at 66k and always been fine.

If I bought one with no history, and it drove fine, id prob factor in a couple hundred for a gearbox service and hope.

Thanks, Jimbob. Trying to take hope out of the process..

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

I thought the new-fangled DSG twin clutch jobbies were going to replace the old torque converter type but it looks like they are popular again, used on a wide range of cars.

Both the ZF 6 speed auto in my desirable Signum and ZF8 speed in my Jaguar XFR were almost without fault. Both TC type.

I hear some of the DSG type of auto tend to become a bit fragile when they get a few miles under their belt. 

[STEMO]

I thought the new-fangled DSG twin clutch jobbies were going to replace the old torque converter type but it looks like they are popular again, used on a wide range of cars.

Both the ZF 6 speed auto in my desirable Signum and ZF8 speed in my Jaguar XFR were almost without fault. Both TC type.

I hear some of the DSG type of auto tend to become a bit fragile when they get a few miles under their belt.

Yes, I remember Mark saying a while back that torque converter boxes were still the most reliable. Mine has done 117,000 miles (so far) without problems.

[dave the builder]

I thought the new-fangled DSG twin clutch jobbies were going to replace the old torque converter type but it looks like they are popular again, used on a wide range of cars.

Both the ZF 6 speed auto in my desirable Signum and ZF8 speed in my Jaguar XFR were almost without fault. Both TC type.

I hear some of the DSG type of auto tend to become a bit fragile when they get a few miles under their belt.

Yes, I remember Mark saying a while back that torque converter boxes were still the most reliable. Mine has done 117,000 miles (so far) without problems.

no need to replace the Astra then 

[STEMO]

I thought the new-fangled DSG twin clutch jobbies were going to replace the old torque converter type but it looks like they are popular again, used on a wide range of cars.

Both the ZF 6 speed auto in my desirable Signum and ZF8 speed in my Jaguar XFR were almost without fault. Both TC type.

I hear some of the DSG type of auto tend to become a bit fragile when they get a few miles under their belt.

Yes, I remember Mark saying a while back that torque converter boxes were still the most reliable. Mine has done 117,000 miles (so far) without problems.

no need to replace the Astra then 

Not yet, Dave, but I'd like to have a clue what I'm looking for when the time comes. Astra could go bang or catastrophically fail an MOT at any time, or it might see me out. 

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

I thought the new-fangled DSG twin clutch jobbies were going to replace the old torque converter type but it looks like they are popular again, used on a wide range of cars.

Both the ZF 6 speed auto in my desirable Signum and ZF8 speed in my Jaguar XFR were almost without fault. Both TC type.

I hear some of the DSG type of auto tend to become a bit fragile when they get a few miles under their belt.

Yes, I remember Mark saying a while back that torque converter boxes were still the most reliable. Mine has done 117,000 miles (so far) without problems.

no need to replace the Astra then 

Not yet, Dave, but I'd like to have a clue what I'm looking for when the time comes. Astra could go bang or catastrophically fail an MOT at any time, or it might see me out. 

117,000 miles is nothing for a crude agricultural diesel lump like the one found in your Astra.

Most diesel lumps can easily run to 200,000 miles plus without major problems.

[STEMO]

I thought the new-fangled DSG twin clutch jobbies were going to replace the old torque converter type but it looks like they are popular again, used on a wide range of cars.

Both the ZF 6 speed auto in my desirable Signum and ZF8 speed in my Jaguar XFR were almost without fault. Both TC type.

I hear some of the DSG type of auto tend to become a bit fragile when they get a few miles under their belt.

Yes, I remember Mark saying a while back that torque converter boxes were still the most reliable. Mine has done 117,000 miles (so far) without problems.

no need to replace the Astra then 

Not yet, Dave, but I'd like to have a clue what I'm looking for when the time comes. Astra could go bang or catastrophically fail an MOT at any time, or it might see me out. 

117,000 miles is nothing for a crude agricultural diesel lump like the one found in your Astra.

Most diesel lumps can easily run to 200,000 miles plus without major problems.

Yes, but the thread is about auto boxes.

[YZ250]

We probably haven’t got enough miles on our Audi’s for a long term reliability review but no issues with either of them so far. Mine has had a gearbox service within the last few months at 38K, at a cost of £182 at an Indy garage. Hers has only done 14K so not due yet.
Although we’ve had no issues with the duel clutch gearbox, the ZF8 in our beemer is an excellent gearbox, so smooth at everything requested of it. 

[STEMO]

We probably haven’t got enough miles on our Audi’s for a long term reliability review but no issues with either of them so far. Mine has had a gearbox service within the last few months at 38K, at a cost of £182 at an Indy garage. Hers has only done 14K so not due yet.
Although we’ve had no issues with the duel clutch gearbox, the ZF8 in our beemer is an excellent gearbox, so smooth at everything requested of it. 

£182 is less than I thought 

[ronnyd]

I've heard from the guy who does the work on my Vectra that the DSG box is fine as long as it's serviced at the correct intervals. The one to steer clear of is the Powershift box on Fords.

[Andy B]

Torque converter slush box for me every time 
Admittedly it was a while back now, but SWMBO was given a DSG Passat as a courtesy car that I ended up using, I never liked the slow speed engagement while parking etc though I believe there is now a certain amount of 'creep' built into them 

[ronnyd]

Thinking back to when my Desmond was written off, i had a Superb as a courtesy car. Nice car but DSG box and auto stop/start made it horrible in traffic. Was glad to get Desmond back.

[STEMO]

I'm going off the idea, glad I asked. Question is, why are more modern boxes not as good as torque converter ones 

[Varche]

Well I have a 2.0 tdi dsg Golf estate and I am absolutely delighted with it. It is very responsive, seems to learn your driving style too.

My friend bought an Ateca dsg and his son has a well used dsg gti Golf.

We bought it S/H with full service history from a VW dealer in Germany with 50k km on theclock. It had had the dsg oil and filter changed at 32k miles so I have kept that up ever since. Now at 180 k km.

Last time I was in uk, taxi to airport was a high mileage dsg Skoda Superb. Guy had his dsg serviced regularly. He did say that the flywheel needed work and demonstrated why he knew . Something to do with low running.

So it is a go for it from me. Skoda estate has a bigger boot than the golf too last time I checked. Our golf has a fancy diff control not fitted ( then) on the seat and skoda equivalents.

[Nick W]

I'm going off the idea, glad I asked. Question is, why are more modern boxes not as good as torque converter ones 

I hope the current VW DSG boxes are better than the first ones. You know, the ones that had a nasty habit of selecting two gears at once, which cost about £3k to fix. Their biggest selling point seems to be how fast they can change gear, which is utterly irrelevant in real use.

[Kevin Wood]

I'm going off the idea, glad I asked. Question is, why are more modern boxes not as good as torque converter ones 

I hope the current VW DSG boxes are better than the first ones. You know, the ones that had a nasty habit of selecting two gears at once, which cost about £3k to fix. Their biggest selling point seems to be how fast they can change gear, which is utterly irrelevant in real use.

.. and I'd wager the ZF8 in my Jag is just as quick at shifting and it's certainly more refined. I'd only ever go for a conventional slushbox. Dual clutch types are trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

[Doctor Gollum]

It would take a bullet to the head to buy a recent/current VAG product.

It would take two to buy one with a DSG box.

[Kevin Wood]

It would take a bullet to the head to buy a recent/current VAG product.

It would take two to buy one with a DSG box.

.. in a nutshell. ^ 

[VXL V6]

I'm going off the idea, glad I asked. Question is, why are more modern boxes not as good as torque converter ones 

I hope the current VW DSG boxes are better than the first ones. You know, the ones that had a nasty habit of selecting two gears at once, which cost about £3k to fix. Their biggest selling point seems to be how fast they can change gear, which is utterly irrelevant in real use.

.. and I'd wager the ZF8 in my Jag is just as quick at shifting and it's certainly more refined. I'd only ever go for a conventional slushbox. Dual clutch types are trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

Have the ZF 8 Speed in my 530D and agree, it's an excellent box.

A little while ago we were looking for an automatic estate for Mrs VXL, we really liked the Passat's but at the age and mileage we were looking at I didn't fancy anything with a DSG going on the general opinion of them. I guess at lower mileages with a service history on the box then it's a different story.

[Andy B]

.....
. Dual clutch types are trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

they're supposed to be a little more economical compared to a slipping slush box

[Andy B]

....
 Their biggest selling point seems to be how fast they can change gear, which is utterly irrelevant in real use.

Agreed .... I can never see the point in a couple of nanosecond gear change either 

[ronnyd]

.....
. Dual clutch types are trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

they're supposed to be a little more economical compared to a slipping slush box

Yes, they were supposed to be the latest thing to save the planet and the polar bears.  Keep ya slush box Astra as long as you can Steve.

[Marks DTM Calib]

DSG is a massive compromise as an auto, its trying to pretend to be an auto by using two clutches (bloody expensive ones to) and effectively an odd and an even gearbox with servos to do the shifting. It was only really considered as Auto's of the time were lossy but, this has long since been addressed with Autos supporting lock up in most and many all gears, and you can't beat a torque converter for coupling to an engine. They can give one fast upshift (as the box sits with the next gear up engaged on the parralel box), a second shift will not be quick and downshifts are also laggy as the second box has to make the shift and then action the change.

So you end up with a very heavy and complex gearbox, with twin clutches, a much more frequent service need (and sadly many dont bother!), and one that has slow downchanges and double gear shift actions.

The DSG is not actually new to VAG, its been around for some time and it was really Borg Warner that pushed to get it to the main stream (contary to popular belief) as they were lagging on the classic auto box front (difficult to compete with ZF and Aisin)

Would I have one, well if your set on a small/medium VAG products (they don't use it in the bigger more capable models e.g. RS6 etc) with an auto then you have little choice, would I want one, no, as conventional Autos are much better and require much less care.........they are also cheaper to sort when they go wrong.

[Marks DTM Calib]

.....
. Dual clutch types are trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

they're supposed to be a little more economical compared to a slipping slush box

Not since autos supported lockup in all/most gears 

[STEMO]

DSG is a massive compromise as an auto, its trying to pretend to be an auto by using two clutches (bloody expensive ones to) and effectively an odd and an even gearbox with servos to do the shifting. It was only really considered as Auto's of the time were lossy but, this has long since been addressed with Autos supporting lock up in most and many all gears, and you can't beat a torque converter for coupling to an engine. They can give one fast upshift (as the box sits with the next gear up engaged on the parralel box), a second shift will not be quick and downshifts are also laggy as the second box has to make the shift and then action the change.

So you end up with a very heavy and complex gearbox, with twin clutches, a much more frequent service need (and sadly many dont bother!), and one that has slow downchanges and double gear shift actions.

The DSG is not actually new to VAG, its been around for some time and it was really Borg Warner that pushed to get it to the main stream (contary to popular belief) as they were lagging on the classic auto box front (difficult to compete with ZF and Aisin)

Would I have one, well if your set on a small/medium VAG products (they don't use it in the bigger more capable models e.g. RS6 etc) with an auto then you have little choice, would I want one, no, as conventional Autos are much better and require much less care.........they are also cheaper to sort when they go wrong.

Thanks, Mark 
All VAG autos now deleted from my search criteria 

[Nick W]

All VAG autos now deleted from my search criteria 

Put them in the same bin as CVTs.


We could do with a new TLA; how about TUG**?




** Totally Useless Gearbox

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

All VAG autos now deleted from my search criteria 

Put them in the same bin as CVTs.


We could do with a new TLA; how about TUG**?




** Totally Useless Gearbox

What about the SMG box favoured by BMW a few years ago?.....pretty crap I hear. Rough as a badgers arse.

[Nick W]

Ever driven a Sprinter with the automated manual?
No? I envy you, and that's not something I ever expected to write
Imagine a transmission where every joint between the crankshaft and the ground is poorly made of squashy rubber.
Then let the person who programmed the original Smart gearbox loose on it.

[Doctor Gollum]

Ever driven a Sprinter with the automated manual?
No? I envy you, and that's not something I ever expected to write
Imagine a transmission where every joint between the crankshaft and the ground is poorly made of squashy rubber.
Then let the person who programmed the original Smart gearbox loose on it.

That's a fair assessment of it

[Sir Tigger KC]

The auto box in my V70 has done about 190,000 miles, I doubt it's ever been serviced and it's fine. 

Although, having said that I think the fluid could do with a top up as it can be a bit lazy and vague when cold. 

[STEMO]

The auto box in my V70 has done about 190,000 miles, I doubt it's ever been serviced and it's fine. 

Although, having said that I think the fluid could do with a top up as it can be a bit lazy and vague when cold. 

Mine holdson to gears a bit too long sometimes, a quick ignition off and on sorts it, so I guess it's electrical.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

The auto box in my V70 has done about 190,000 miles, I doubt it's ever been serviced and it's fine. 

Although, having said that I think the fluid could do with a top up as it can be a bit lazy and vague when cold. 

Mine holdson to gears a bit too long sometimes, a quick ignition off and on sorts it, so I guess it's electrical.

They do that when cold.

[YZ250]

Our Audi’s are both 7 speed wet clutch S Tronic, so the same as DSG I assume. The only Audi 3.0 tdi to my knowledge that got the 8 speed ZF torque converter was the BiTdi, and that’s because of the extra ponies. If the average Joe drove an S Tronic/DSG vehicle I doubt they’d notice any difference on a run. I just did a quick auto trader check and for a gearbox that is considered the devil, there are an awful lot of VAG DSG vehicles that have done well in excess of 150K miles, with some having galactic mileage.
If I’m honest, I’d always steered clear of double clutch gearbox vehicles myself but there wasn’t an alternative in the vehicle that I chose. So today, in the interest of fairness I asked my independent reviewer (my wife) for her opinion. I asked if there was anything she didn’t like about either of our Audi gearboxes and she said no. I then asked which was the better gearbox, the Audi S Tronic or the 8 speed ZF in the bmw, and without hesitation she said the ZF in the bmw, as it’s just smoother at low speeds, hill starts etc.  So there you have it, nothing wrong in the functionality of them if serviced properly, but there are better autoboxes out there. 

[Andy B]

.....
Then let the person who programmed the original Smart gearbox loose on it.

There's nothing wrong with a Smart! I have 2 of them! 




(I do admit that the Roadster with 6 speed automated manual could be better )

[henryd]

Torque converter slush box for me every time 
Admittedly it was a while back now, but SWMBO was given a DSG Passat as a courtesy car that I ended up using, I never liked the slow speed engagement while parking etc though I believe there is now a certain amount of 'creep' built into them 

I'm with you there Andy,also not keen on DSG around town,fine on the open road though

[Andy B]

Torque converter slush box for me every time 
Admittedly it was a while back now, but SWMBO was given a DSG Passat as a courtesy car that I ended up using, I never liked the slow speed engagement while parking etc though I believe there is now a certain amount of 'creep' built into them 

I'm with you there Andy,also not keen on DSG around town,fine on the open road though