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[Taxi_Driver]

Just been up to get a kebab, im back home.....but my 2.2 is parked on double yellows outside kebab shop refusing to start  

Its catching, splutters, then dies  

EML comes on when it dies , but isnt on during cranking or flashing...

It carnt be crank or cam sensor........coz i know 2.2's will start with them faulty/disconnected

Its got petrol in it......gauge says nearly 1/4 tank.....

Im lost atm to whats wrong.......batt has gone flat trying to start it.......gonna phone some mates in a min and go back up to it for a jump start......hopefully it will start  :-/ Otherwise its ticket time  

Any ideas anyone ?

[Auto Addict]

Are you sure about it starting with the cam sensor disconnected?

[Auto Addict]

Oil / water in the plug wells?

[Taxi_Driver]

Are you sure about it starting with the cam sensor disconnected?

Yes , it will, same as crank sensor.......takes its time but will start...

Counldnt get on OOf late last night, guess there were probs....but i went back up with a m8 and with trying to jump start it wouldnt  

Tho thankfully from help with kebab shop guys managed to push it  off double yellows so i wont get a ticket  

Going back in a short while.........with lappy......symptoms to me are like its outa petrol......but gauge says nearly 1/4 full.....so not sure.......gauge might be lying to me  :-/

[Taxi_Driver]

Oil / water in the plug wells?

Dont know AA........it hasn rained for a day or two here........and i have changed the cam cover gasket in the past......its always started ok before......

[Auto Addict]

Oil / water in the plug wells?

Dont know AA........it hasn rained for a day or two here........and i have changed the cam cover gasket in the past......its always started ok before......

Just clutching at straws....

[albitz]

fuel filter ? :-/

[Auto Addict]

fuel filter ? :-/

Yes, I was just wondering that.

[SP_3.2]

When  mine had starting probs last week which sounds a lot like your it  turned out to be a small hole in one of the rubber pipes in the fuel tank pick up pot under a a round metal plate with 4 srews under the mat in the boot. Only a 10 min job to check. with mine it was a very samll hole but was letting the pressure go back down and was like there was no fuel getting to the engine.  Could also check fuel relay for the clik.

Hope the is of some help and you get it back on the round.

[Taxi_Driver]

Ive chucked a gallon of petrol in it to be on the safe side and had another go with a 110amp/h battery.....flattened it  

Called my local garage.....who came out...they flatened 2 jump starter packs on it.....then recovered it to their garage.......

Im going back to the garage in a bit to check fuses and code read it.......see if that sheds any light on it  :-/

[Taxi_Driver]

When  mine had starting probs last week which sounds a lot like your it  turned out to be a small hole in one of the rubber pipes in the fuel tank pick up pot under a a round metal plate with 4 srews under the mat in the boot. Only a 10 min job to check. with mine it was a very samll hole but was letting the pressure go back down and was like there was no fuel getting to the engine.  Could also check fuel relay for the clik.

Hope the is of some help and you get it back on the round.

Cheers i'll check this.........i hope its not in the spare wheel well tho!! Coz theres an lpg tank bolted in there.....

[Taxi_Driver]

When  mine had starting probs last week which sounds a lot like your it  turned out to be a small hole in one of the rubber pipes in the fuel tank pick up pot under a a round metal plate with 4 srews under the mat in the boot. Only a 10 min job to check. with mine it was a very samll hole but was letting the pressure go back down and was like there was no fuel getting to the engine.  Could also check fuel relay for the clik.

Hope the is of some help and you get it back on the round.

You were pretty close  

After i checked all the fuses I read the ecu codes.....usual ones there plus 2 for the immobiliser.......so it looked like an immobiliser fault.......
Spoke to TB on the phone about it.......thanx for the time and texts TB   I checked immobiliser ecu wiring.....seemed ok.

Then garage boss decided to take a look.........

He checked the codes as well.......then decided to ignore them  

And start with basics........is there a spark? yes ok next
Is there fuel.......off with a fuel line......no......so why not.....
Hes got a gizzmo....that can override relays........ie you can pull relays plug this in and it just basically shorts the wires when he presses a button......he explains to me....that if the ecu is stopping fuel.....then this is overriding it and so would expect fuel......so he tried it on the fuel pump relay........still no fuel.......

He then stuck a meter across the fuel pump......got 12v......but he couldnt hear the pump......so he took it out.....put 12v across it and it worked....so he put back in.....reconnected fuel line and gave it go.....my 2.2 started   But not for long, it cut out after about 30secs   He tried starting it again but it just cranked.......so he tried a very technical procedure  .......he told me to keep cranking it while he hit the top of the pump with a hammer......it worked   my 2.2 started again.

So thats the explanation......a tired fuel pump that needs replacing.

I guess the immobiliser codes where faults thrown up coz a dying/flat battery.

Total cost for today (altho not counting loss of earnings) was, for recovery to garage......and fault finding it.......£45..pretty good i thought........altho i now have a stick on holder mounted to my dash......full of his business cards  

[CaptainZok]

When  mine had starting probs last week which sounds a lot like your it  turned out to be a small hole in one of the rubber pipes in the fuel tank pick up pot under a a round metal plate with 4 srews under the mat in the boot. Only a 10 min job to check. with mine it was a very samll hole but was letting the pressure go back down and was like there was no fuel getting to the engine.  Could also check fuel relay for the clik.

Hope the is of some help and you get it back on the round.

You were pretty close  

After i checked all the fuses I read the ecu codes.....usual ones there plus 2 for the immobiliser.......so it looked like an immobiliser fault.......
Spoke to TB on the phone about it.......thanx for the time and texts TB   I checked immobiliser ecu wiring.....seemed ok.

Then garage boss decided to take a look.........

He checked the codes as well.......then decided to ignore them  

And start with basics........is there a spark? yes ok next
Is there fuel.......off with a fuel line......no......so why not.....
Hes got a gizzmo....that can override relays........ie you can pull relays plug this in and it just basically shorts the wires when he presses a button......he explains to me....that if the ecu is stopping fuel.....then this is overriding it and so would expect fuel......so he tried it on the fuel pump relay........still no fuel.......

He then stuck a meter across the fuel pump......got 12v......but he couldnt hear the pump......so he took it out.....put 12v across it and it worked....so he put back in.....reconnected fuel line and gave it go.....my 2.2 started   But not for long, it cut out after about 30secs   He tried starting it again but it just cranked.......so he tried a very technical procedure  .......he told me to keep cranking it while he hit the top of the pump with a hammer......it worked   my 2.2 started again.

So thats the explanation......a tired fuel pump that needs replacing.

I guess the immobiliser codes where faults thrown up coz a dying/flat battery.

Total cost for today (altho not counting loss of earnings) was, for recovery to garage......and fault finding it.......£45..pretty good i thought........altho i now have a stick on holder mounted to my dash......full of his business cards  

and a knocking stick in the door pocket

[Taxi_Driver]

 

Dont think it calls for Sammy just yet  

[CaptainZok]

Dont think it calls for Sammy just yet  

Good job, I believe he's still AWOL.

[Auto Addict]

When  mine had starting probs last week which sounds a lot like your it  turned out to be a small hole in one of the rubber pipes in the fuel tank pick up pot under a a round metal plate with 4 srews under the mat in the boot. Only a 10 min job to check. with mine it was a very samll hole but was letting the pressure go back down and was like there was no fuel getting to the engine.  Could also check fuel relay for the clik.

Hope the is of some help and you get it back on the round.

You were pretty close  

After i checked all the fuses I read the ecu codes.....usual ones there plus 2 for the immobiliser.......so it looked like an immobiliser fault.......
Spoke to TB on the phone about it.......thanx for the time and texts TB   I checked immobiliser ecu wiring.....seemed ok.

Then garage boss decided to take a look.........

He checked the codes as well.......then decided to ignore them  

And start with basics........is there a spark? yes ok next
Is there fuel.......off with a fuel line......no......so why not.....
Hes got a gizzmo....that can override relays........ie you can pull relays plug this in and it just basically shorts the wires when he presses a button......he explains to me....that if the ecu is stopping fuel.....then this is overriding it and so would expect fuel......so he tried it on the fuel pump relay........still no fuel.......

He then stuck a meter across the fuel pump......got 12v......but he couldnt hear the pump......so he took it out.....put 12v across it and it worked....so he put back in.....reconnected fuel line and gave it go.....my 2.2 started   But not for long, it cut out after about 30secs   He tried starting it again but it just cranked.......so he tried a very technical procedure  .......he told me to keep cranking it while he hit the top of the pump with a hammer......it worked   my 2.2 started again.

So thats the explanation......a tired fuel pump that needs replacing.

I guess the immobiliser codes where faults thrown up coz a dying/flat battery.

Total cost for today (altho not counting loss of earnings) was, for recovery to garage......and fault finding it.......£45..pretty good i thought........altho i now have a stick on holder mounted to my dash......full of his business cards  

 

[Auto Addict]

Reminds me of back in the sixties, had a Mini Van, came back from Weston-S-M with it cutting out every 2 miles, had to keep getting underneath and giving the fuel pump a tap in the pouring rain.

Got us home though.

[TheBoy]

Glad you sorted it - as you said, I reckon the immobiliser codes caused by something unrelated to actual fault.

Apologies for delay in getting back yesterday - RDP to my PC via GPRS on a mobile phone takes a while

[Taxi_Driver]

Glad you sorted it - as you said, I reckon the immobiliser codes caused by something unrelated to actual fault.

Apologies for delay in getting back yesterday - RDP to my PC via GPRS on a mobile phone takes a while

All the help was apprecaited  

However it wont start again this morning  

So ive been checking a few things.....

Theres only 2.8v accross the fuel pump.......which carnt be right.

Checked F18........only 2.8v there as well.....

Checked the fuel pump relay.....12v there (the two smaller pins have 12v across them and theres 12v in and 12v out on the other 2 larger pins)

Unless anyone thinks its a bad idea im going to put 12v accross the pump directly to see what happens......when i come back......need to go out and the car batt is flat as a witchs........ so its on charge.

I think the garage just got lucky and it was coincedence that the pump started working for them  :-/

[Entwood]

2.8 v whilst its trying to draw makes sense ... you'll only get 12v on an open circuit.

My guess is that if there is ANY voltage at the pump it's trying to run ... and if the voltage is dropping THAT far with no movement .. pump is FUBAR'd

[Arpy]

I agree with entwood if voltage dropping so low something is drawing  current possible windings shorting out any way just wanted to change subject slightly
I had my 2.2 auto cdx converted and just curious as to what sort of mpg you get and did it effect how the auto box changes at town speeds mine seems to stay hovering around 2000 revs so seems to be using more gas.
cheers

[Taxi_Driver]

I got it running again   Then it broke again  

That 2.8v is what I read at the pump connector with it unplugged, not plugged in.

However i think I understand whats happening a bit better now and it is indeed a 'sticky' fuel pump.

I think from what voltages readings I have seen at the pump connector.......it appears to me that the ecu is deciding that coz of non starting it shuts the voltage off to the pump to stop flooding the engine.

I did connect a 12v feed directly to the pump and it didnt start running straight away........but a couple of taps to the pump and it started running......tried to start the 2.2 and it went.

So i took off my 12v feed and tried again and it started again......so i unplugged the connector and checked the voltage....approx 13v....which dropped to 2.8v when the engine stalled

Now im back to square one again......i think its stuck again and the car battery is flat again.......so its back on charge.

So i think best plan is try to get 2nd hand pump on Monday  

[Taxi_Driver]

I agree with entwood if voltage dropping so low something is drawing  current possible windings shorting out any way just wanted to change subject slightly
I had my 2.2 auto cdx converted and just curious as to what sort of mpg you get and did it effect how the auto box changes at town speeds mine seems to stay hovering around 2000 revs so seems to be using more gas.
cheers

You will be down slightly on power.....so the autobox starts changing later, than if on petrol....i get about 15mpg in town and 23mpg on a run......and yes you will use more lpg than petrol.

[TheBoy]

I got it running again   Then it broke again  

That 2.8v is what I read at the pump connector with it unplugged, not plugged in.

However i think I understand whats happening a bit better now and it is indeed a 'sticky' fuel pump.

I think from what voltages readings I have seen at the pump connector.......it appears to me that the ecu is deciding that coz of non starting it shuts the voltage off to the pump to stop flooding the engine.

I did connect a 12v feed directly to the pump and it didnt start running straight away........but a couple of taps to the pump and it started running......tried to start the 2.2 and it went.

So i took off my 12v feed and tried again and it started again......so i unplugged the connector and checked the voltage....approx 13v....which dropped to 2.8v when the engine stalled

Now im back to square one again......i think its stuck again and the car battery is flat again.......so its back on charge.

So i think best plan is try to get 2nd hand pump on Monday  

Does sound like you need to get a new pump pretty quickly - time=money and all that.

Can you get it out without moving LPG stuff?

[Taxi_Driver]

I got it running again   Then it broke again  

That 2.8v is what I read at the pump connector with it unplugged, not plugged in.

However i think I understand whats happening a bit better now and it is indeed a 'sticky' fuel pump.

I think from what voltages readings I have seen at the pump connector.......it appears to me that the ecu is deciding that coz of non starting it shuts the voltage off to the pump to stop flooding the engine.

I did connect a 12v feed directly to the pump and it didnt start running straight away........but a couple of taps to the pump and it started running......tried to start the 2.2 and it went.

So i took off my 12v feed and tried again and it started again......so i unplugged the connector and checked the voltage....approx 13v....which dropped to 2.8v when the engine stalled

Now im back to square one again......i think its stuck again and the car battery is flat again.......so its back on charge.

So i think best plan is try to get 2nd hand pump on Monday  

Does sound like you need to get a new pump pretty quickly - time=money and all that.

Can you get it out without moving LPG stuff?

Know what u mean about time=money and all that  
I havent worked most of the weekend.......lost sat and sunday..
But good news is on the estate.....the fuel pump is under a plate to the rhs of the spare wheel well.....so dont have disturb lpg bits.........
Gonna phone scrapies in the morning........but theres 3 different fuel pumps for omegas........and i dont wanna pay vx £130 roughly for a new one......plus MDTM says they rarely fail.....so 2nd hand one would do..

Just gotta find one on Monday.........for a 2.2 estate.......old 2.0/2.5/3.0 will fit......newer ones wont......have a look in yer TC book TB......and see what will fit and what wont.....MTDM is getting back to me on what will work.........

[markey mark]

i have a good low miles 2.5 one from 98 model fella if any good to ya !! £30 inc postage !

[Taxi_Driver]

i have a good low miles 2.5 one from 98 model fella if any good to ya !! £30 inc postage !

Thanks for the offer....but im going to see if i can get one today....and needs to be p/n 93181359 unless MDTM tells me different  

A 2.5 could be the above p/n or 9120218.

[markey mark]

ok fella let me know if you need it !

[Kevin Wood]

Fuel pump will only run for a couple of seconds to prime the system when ignition is turned on, and thereafter only while the ECU detects cranking or a running engine. If you bridge the two wide pins on the FP relay and then measure the volts at the pump you might be better off.

Also, you should hear the pump running. Another check is to remove the return line to the tank into a suitable container and check fuel flow rate (would have been able to tell you which one if I'd paid attention when we had to drain marie's tank on saturday - IIRC, it's the right hand pipe as you look into the boot). Any fuel flow in the return line means that the fuel pressure is adequate (assuming FPR is good) but you should get a reasonable flow rate too.

Does your LPG system have a "start on gas" mode? Might be worth a try.

Do you often run it very low on petrol while on LPG? Just wondering if the pump's been sucking air and that has killed it. :-/

Kevin

[Taxi_Driver]

KW - I usually put 10 or 20 quids worth in when the MID starts to complain about range 31 miles.....mainly coz it keeps harping on about it and its bloody annoying  
And yes i discovered that about the fuel pump and ECU having spent most of sunday messing about with it.

Anyway phoned a scrappy 9am this morning....he's about 7/8 miles away....told me he's got an old 2.0L omega....i asked how old.....couldnt tell me coz plates where missing....so took a gamble and popped down there.....he even took it off for me......tho it might have been a safety issue.......coz another car was balanced on its roof.  

And luckily it looked identical to mine.......so Ive fitted it.....and my 2.2 is starting on the button again everytime  

And not a bad price either.......£20  

[Entwood]

Nice one .. back to earning again ..

 

[Auto Addict]

Glad it's sorted TD

[arthill]

Have you tried disconnecting MAF and see if it starts

 John

[arthill]

Sorry only read first page.

[Taxi_Driver]

Cheers Guys  

It'll been out earning again this morning  
Petrol stink should have gone now......as i didnt depresurise the fuel rail before disconnecting the pump.....