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[ROBZERIO]

Hi everybody!

 I own a 2.0 x20xev GLS 'auto on a 2000X plate and the bolts that go from the flywheel to the crank have sheared inside the crank!!

Can anybody help its bizarre because ive never mistreated the car, it happened when I was overtaking and I heard a whistling noise so I just thought a vacuum pipe had come off on something.. Anyway just as I arrived at my local Garage all 6 bolts snapped (lucky in some ways huh!) Anyway the cost to repair this is going to be extream! probably twice the cost of the car!  :exclamation
I recently paid 1500 to have the headgasket and other bits changed too!! and now this! Argh! Shes only covered 65000miles very bizarre!

Anyway my question is, that is it possible to take the crank out from underneath the engine, as I don't want to take the heads off like say just been put back on! OR would it be possible to get the holes re-drilled so I don't need to spend the earth to repair it.. and would that be safe and be durable enough to last at least another 65000miles?

Thanks very much for your time!

Robert Hamilton.

[Omega VT3000]

Sorry to hear about your troubles. You shouldn't have to touch the top end of the engine (i.e. cylinder heads) as the crank is on the bottom end. I suspect the engine would have to come out though as you will need to remove the sump to get to the big end caps and the crank itself.

I am not familiar with the 2.0 engine but surely the driveplate would bolt to the crank shaft from the outside so removing the gearbox/torque converter would be the route to take?

If this is the case, the heads of the bolts will have sheared and the studs should be accesible from the gearbox end of the engine with the gearbox removed.

Just a thought.

[Welung666]

Where are you Rob?

[Marks DTM Calib]

You should be able to remove the bolts with just the gearbox out

[Kevin Wood]

I would say the first port of call would be to try extracting the remaining bits of bolt from the end of the crankshaft in-situ. Now there's no tension on them they may well come out easily.

It's worrying that they failed in the first case. Had the flywheel been off previously? Overtightened perhaps?

Kevin

[djac]

I would say the first port of call would be to try extracting the remaining bits of bolt from the end of the crankshaft in-situ. Now there's no tension on them they may well come out easily.

It's worrying that they failed in the first case. Had the flywheel been off previously? Overtightened perhaps?

Kevin

Perhaps a member on here is near you and can lend a hand and a stud extractor kit?

[ROBZERIO]

Thanks very much for your message!! =) I already have the gearbox/flywheel/spacers etc. out I can see all of the bolts are broken inside so ill try to get the engine out next to have a gander cheers! =)

[ROBZERIO]

Wow I didn't see the other messages! Thanks very much guys! I'm actually living in France at the moment which is a bit of a bugger, also thanks for thinking that perhaps someone can help me out with changing certain parts, I will have a go at removing the bolts, however the screw holes are elongated inside the crank now, and if I just bolt on another flywheel it may be out of balance.. plus the cost to re-bore new screw holes may cost more than a new crankshaft..

Thanks again guys! =) 

[Matchless]

The bolts are fairly big diameter so I would be trying to centre punch them and drill a pilot hole to get an extractor in. Removing the engine would be a last resort unless there is damage to the crank from the loose drive plate wobbling around.

Just seen you last post...if the holes are damaged it probably means a replacement crank / engine.

[ROBZERIO]

I would say the first port of call would be to try extracting the remaining bits of bolt from the end of the crankshaft in-situ. Now there's no tension on them they may well come out easily.

It's worrying that they failed in the first case. Had the flywheel been off previously? Overtightened perhaps?

Kevin

Im new to this so im just trying to get my head around all the buttons I hope this is the right one! ha!

Anyway when I bought the vehicle from an auction, it didn't come with any service history!! (Big no no I know!) however what it did say was that it had no major faults!!

 As I was returning home to France where I live now, 200 miles in the head-gasket blew! I wrote to the Auction house and explained this and they said there is nothing they can do apart from put it back through the action!! so you can imagine how disgusted I was!

 As for previous repair, I believe the car had only covered 52k at the time of purchase it seemed to be that way very firm etc. My father previously owned a 3.0 V6 Elite before he sold it, it had covered 180k so I knew the feel of a fairly used Omega.. so what im trying to say is, why would a car with such low miles need a replacement flywheel!? If that is the case..
 There are no signs of accident damage either its very bizarre to have this problem so I have been told.. So I cant comment as to whether or not the problem stems from old repair jobs! =(

Many thanks Rob.

[ROBZERIO]

The bolts are fairly big diameter so I would be trying to centre punch them and drill a pilot hole to get an extractor in. Removing the engine would be a last resort unless there is damage to the crank from the loose drive plate wobbling around.

Just seen you last post...if the holes are damaged it probably means a replacement crank / engine.

That's what I'm worried about a replacement crank even worse than that is a replacement engine!! however from what I've learnt is that it may be possible to take out the engine, remove the crank from underneath the heads, making my life a lot easier and less expensive, than a total engine rebuild!!

Cheers Rob.   

ps. if I was to buy a replacement engine do you know the costs and where I could find one, and also would the Vectra (Auto) X20XEV engine fit? The engine mounts may be different as its a transversely mounted engine!?!?

[ROBZERIO]

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=103682&id=513668724&saved


These are a few pics of her and of the problem so as to give you a better idea of what happened..  :-/

[Andy B]

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=103682&id=513668724&saved


These are a few pics of her and of the problem so as to give you a better idea of what happened..  :-/

If you could host your pictures somewhere other than facebook .......    A lot here don't have an account, myself included. 

[alank46]

Personally I would leave the engine in place and extract the broken bolts, then buy new correct high tensile bolts and put the whole lot back together with appropriately applied loctite.  Admittedly this is risky, at a guess it stands a 50/50 chance of working, so on your own head be it, but personally I'd take those odds.  Depends partly on how much cash you have available and whether you want to risk having to take it all apart again.
Alan

[Andy B]

I'd do as alank46 has suggested above. It sounds to me as though the flywheel has been loose for a little while if it's distorted the female threads. Plenty of thread lock when you rebuild it to make sure they don't come slack again.

[Kevin Wood]

Personally I would leave the engine in place and extract the broken bolts, then buy new correct high tensile bolts and put the whole lot back together with appropriately applied loctite.  Admittedly this is risky, at a guess it stands a 50/50 chance of working, so on your own head be it, but personally I'd take those odds.  Depends partly on how much cash you have available and whether you want to risk having to take it all apart again.
Alan

If a check is made for obvious damage to the flywheel, crank and the threads in the crank I can't see why it would be risky. It makes sense to try remopval of the studs before committing to the much larger project of removing the engine and stripping down the whole bottom end to change the crankshaft.

Not to mention sourcing a replacement crankshaft, removing it from the donor, checking it, perhaps getting it ground / polished, and new bearing shells to suit...

Kevin

[ROBZERIO]

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=103682&id=513668724&saved


These are a few pics of her and of the problem so as to give you a better idea of what happened..  :-/

If you could host your pictures somewhere other than facebook .......    A lot here don't have an account, myself included. 

Ooops sorry! 

[Andy B]

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=103682&id=513668724&saved


These are a few pics of her and of the problem so as to give you a better idea of what happened..  :-/

If you could host your pictures somewhere other than facebook .......    A lot here don't have an account, myself included. 

Ooops sorry! 

Don't worry about it though 

[Marks DTM Calib]

Its a flex plate so low risk, leave the engine in, drill the bolts and use a stud extractor to remove the remnants.

There cant be much damage to the threads because most of the bolt is still in place!

Does the input shaft and output shaft to the gearbox turn ok?

[Andy B]

Its a flex plate so low risk,  .......

So ..... someone actually read the first post properly. I'd missed it was a proper 2 pedal car.       

must've been the grey type

[fiend61]

here are some of his pics 

[IMG]http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/m585/Roger_Short/omega/6532_123379138724_513668724_2445355_1014215_n.jpg[/IMG 

[fiend61]

[fiend61]

[fiend61]

[fiend61]

wow first time i have done that 

[Andy B]

As said, use a stud extractor/easy-out to remove the sheared bolts, clean up any burrs on your flex plate & boss, use new bolts & you'll be fine. 
My only explanation is that they came loose, as they did on an auto Carlton I had years ago. Mine was discovered before any damage had been done.

[ROBZERIO]

wow first time i have done that 

haha cheers I wouldnt have thought of doing that myself so cheers! xD

[ROBZERIO]

As said, use a stud extractor/easy-out to remove the sheared bolts, clean up any burrs on your flex plate & boss, use new bolts & you'll be fine. 
My only explanation is that they came loose, as they did on an auto Carlton I had years ago. Mine was discovered before any damage had been done.

I even took the car to my local garage before all the bolts snapped, it sounded like there was one bolt that came loose and was stuck on the flywheel/torque converter coming to think about it now, but the mechanic was 'too busy' to have a proper look!! but hey even he thought like me it was just a vacuum pipe hissing (but from the bottom of the engine!! (mmm bizarre) anyway it got so bad the car had difficulty starting as time went on and when I put it in drive it lurched forward more than usual with a slight delay so I knew it was losing drive especially when it felt like 'the cluch' was slipping but it cant when hasnt got one so I knew the flywheel was damaged in some way, anyway as I was on my way back to the garage I got to the mechanics slip road, I put the smallest of accelerations into the pedal but then it was like I was on the D-day landing beaches with bullets flying around my head as all 6 bolts we being churned up inside the box!!!

Anyway im going to do what you said with regards to the removal of the bolts and get a new flywheel/bolts and those 'spacers'? I actually went to a VX dealer in the UK last year and they said one part was discontinued! I think it was one of the spacers on the engine side so im a bit 'dangle berries'ed without that! ha! Fingers crossed I hope this works! Cheers to you and all of the other great people here for you inputs
much appreciated! =) 

Got to keep these great cars on the road!! (Shame I got a dog though!!)

[Kevin Wood]

If any bits are hard to get hold of, or silly money new, there are always cars being broken for spares here. 

Yeah, loose nuts and bolts getting churned up in the bellhousing is never a pleasant sound.

Kevin

[Psychoca]

I would take a guess and say that at some point the drive plate has been removed and replaced using the same bolts.

[ROBZERIO]

If any bits are hard to get hold of, or silly money new, there are always cars being broken for spares here. 

Yeah, loose nuts and bolts getting churned up in the bellhousing is never a pleasant sound.

Kevin

Cheers Kevin ill keep an eye out! =) 

and by the way I think there were more unpleasant noises coming out of my mouth pretty much as I realised what was happening haha!

[BOONY]

had the same problem myself and it was my fault  . try tapping them round with a center punch and hammer. but the only place i found for the bolts was the stealers and they were expensive.
good luck with it though

[Marks DTM Calib]

The spacer will be fine.

Its only purpose is to provide a location for the flex plate which does using the crank nose as a reference hence the bolt hole damage is not an issue.

The crank should be fine, just clean the burrs off

Get new bolts and re-fit (check that the torque convertor has not been damaged by the stray bolt heads)

[Big_Roger]

Hi Robert,
I had a very similar problem to yours on a Ford Transit minibus many years ago.

Ill bet it all looks far more dramatic than it really is.

As said by alank46 and andyB, etc, get the bolts out, clean up all the burrs with a fine file, get new bolts and dowel pin. If the holes are really really badly damaged, they could be Helicoiled.

Degrease it all well with brake or fuel system cleaner, get some Locktite Bearing fit or Liquid metal apply liberally, and put it all together and stop worrying.

Do the bolts up to correct torque just check flywheel is running true. I would also replace crank seal as well while it's accessible.

If, unfortunately it did fail soon, then you havn't spent a fortune. If you start thinking about replacement cranks/or re drilling(which I doubt it very practical) the costs can spiral.

The one I did lasted with no problems at all for a further 148,000 miles until it was scrapped because of body rust

HTH
Roger

[ROBZERIO]

Cheers lads for more great input!!

I spoke to my fathers Ex-head TVR Mechanic, he said

"You've definitely got yourself a can of worms there...
 
I suppose to start off you could try and extract the remains of the bolts from the crank. To do this it would be important to drill into them correctly and so I'd propose a little drilling jig which could be made to just locate into the thread holes (it looks like that's possible on all in the pics) and then drill centrally through each bolt with a small drill - but important to use HSS not shit carbide drill bits!
 
Then you'd enlarge the holes to a convenient size to suit the largest screw extractor that will fit. With all extracted you can bolt in a new flex plate (flywheel) using new bolts and suitable grade of Loctite then another torque converter.  The crank does look damaged but the area is normally a low stress area and also normally very over-engineered so unlikely to fail. However, I'd need to look in the flesh to be able to offer a full TVR A23 warranty on that
 
Should you elect to remove the crank, I'd not recommend it in situ' as the scope for missing things, dirt ingress and problems later are immense. The extra work would be well worth it unless you're outing the car soon after fixing it and don't want to waste time and cash..although having spent money on the head I'm guessing you're keeping it?
 
Obviously if you can't extract the bolt remains for whatever reason, you'll have to remove the crank. Sorry if this all sounds a bit circular - to some extent it will be as the job could and likely will evolve..be prepared!"
 

Anyway guys im going to start the project in Spring (as I have no garage space available!). Ill try to keep you guys as informed as much possible with progress!

Thanks guys for such great feedback! It fills me with confidence that perhaps she will be running and kicking down the road again! xD

Cant wait!! Cheers!

Rob.

Hi Robert,
I had a very similar problem to yours on a Ford Transit minibus many years ago.

Ill bet it all looks far more dramatic than it really is.

As said by alank46 and andyB, etc, get the bolts out, clean up all the burrs with a fine file, get new bolts and dowel pin. If the holes are really really badly damaged, they could be Helicoiled.

Degrease it all well with brake or fuel system cleaner, get some Locktite Bearing fit or Liquid metal apply liberally, and put it all together and stop worrying.

Do the bolts up to correct torque just check flywheel is running true. I would also replace crank seal as well while it's accessible.

If, unfortunately it did fail soon, then you havn't spent a fortune. If you start thinking about replacement cranks/or re drilling(which I doubt it very practical) the costs can spiral.

The one I did lasted with no problems at all for a further 148,000 miles until it was scrapped because of body rust

HTH
Roger