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Author Topic: crime penalties  (Read 2552 times)

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raywilb

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crime penalties
« on: 27 March 2017, 15:26:03 »

it always makes me wonder why our law system when applying fines, court costs etc make the costs to include detection expenses. many a time car chases may include several chase vehicles & a helicopter then the culprit gets away with nothing more than a slap on the wrist. TV today , there was two brothers that were distributing drugs £1/4 million - they went on the run. one was arrested in Holland & the other in Spain when he was flying back from Dubai . they both got 3yrs.  ???
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Varche

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Re: crime penalties
« Reply #1 on: 27 March 2017, 15:41:26 »

But you could bet your last (old) pound coin that if you tried just one crime-say robbing a shop, you would spend years and years rotting in jail.

My Dad sits glued to TV Police, chase, whatever it is called and then says at the end why did they let him off with yet another warning having stolen a car, thrown drugs out and involved 70 police forces plus helicopters in a three day chase? It makes me so mad he says.
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: crime penalties
« Reply #2 on: 27 March 2017, 15:59:16 »

Driving like a twonk in a heat of the fight or flight reaction is very different to the premeditated supply and distribution of restricted substances.

Sure the car chases etc make for good telly, but in reality, they are usually small beer offences commited by oiks with little or no income... no point fining as they won't be able to pay, and no point imprisoning them either... we already pay for their housing and food :-X

Granted, occasionally innocent lives are caught up in the process, and then the guilty are bought to bear.

The drug running is a)big business... the cash exchanging hands is ridiculous; b)has much farther reaching consequences within society as a whole... hence the solid sentencing ;)
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Re: crime penalties
« Reply #3 on: 27 March 2017, 16:50:08 »

There is a local p***k who was caught drink driving in November banned 2 years and fine same guy caught again on the 1st on jan you would have thought that the courts would have realised that a ban was not working and lock him nope another ban for drink driving and I heard yesterday he was caught again at the weekend after hitting 4 parked cars 4 x over the limit yet they let him out on bail as he is pleading not guilty  >:(
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Entwood

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Re: crime penalties
« Reply #4 on: 27 March 2017, 19:45:33 »

Whilst I appreciate all the "lock 'em up and throw away the keys" comments/mentality there are some serious downsides to that approach (and I'll focus ONLY on the financial aspects, not rehabilitation etc etc...

1. It costs approximately £65,000 to catch/prosecute/sentence someone to prison  when all the costs of hearings/courts/appeals/police attendance/CPS etc etc are included

2. It costs approximately £40,000 a year to lock someone up after food/prison staff/security/medical care etc etc is included

3. In the Uk there are approximately 70,000 prisoners in buildings designed to take 50,000. It is estimated that each new prison "place" costs £119,000 per person after planning/appeals/land purchase/building/training extra staff etc etc is taken into account

4. Every person locked up stops contributing to the tax system as they are no longer working, and their families will "probably" now be entitled to claim benefits (if they were not already). These are further costs to the government taxpayer

We ALL whinge and moan about income tax/council tax/VAT/VED etc etc as no-one wants to pay extra taxes ... but the money has to come from somewhere as the government has no money of its own, it only has what it takes from us ....

So if everyone is happy to pay £1000 more each year .. then yup .. we can start locking up all those who upset us in any way ...   :)


« Last Edit: 27 March 2017, 19:58:16 by Entwood »
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STEMO

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Re: crime penalties
« Reply #5 on: 27 March 2017, 20:01:12 »

Where do I send the money?
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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: crime penalties
« Reply #6 on: 27 March 2017, 20:15:10 »

Quote from: Entwood link=topic=139133.msg1796291#msg1796291 datehjo=1490640333
Whilst I appreciate all the "lock 'em up and throw away the keys" comments/mentality there are some serious downsides to that approach (and I'll focus ONLY on the financial aspects, not rehabilitation etc etc...

1. It costs approximately £65,000 to catch/prosecute/sentence someone to prison  when all the costs of hearings/courts/appeals/police attendance/CPS etc etc are included

2. It costs approximately £40,000 a year to lock someone up after food/prison staff/security/medical care etc etc is included

3. In the Uk there are approximately 70,000 prisoners in buildings designed to take 50,000. It is estimated that each new prison "place" costs £119,000 per person after planning/appeals/land purchase/building/training extra staff etc etc is taken into account

4. Every person locked up stops contributing to the tax system as they are no longer working, and their families will "probably" now be entitled to claim benefits (if they were not already). These are further costs to the government taxpayer

We ALL whinge and moan about income tax/council tax/VAT/VED etc etc as no-one wants to pay extra taxes ... but the money has to come from somewhere as the government has no money of its own, it only has what it takes from us ....

So if everyone is happy to pay £1000 more each year .. then yup .. we can start locking up all those who upset us in any way ...   :)

Well stated Entwood :y

That is why so many serve half their sentence. It is to save money. It is the same with a lack of the police officers we actually need. It is all down to money. So much of this means more money is wasted. The police officers we have got spend hours "doing the paperwork" only for those arrested to be released with a slap on the hand, or finally to be convicted and sent to prison, but then released early; only for the police to have to repeat the exercise of arrest, paperwork and due court process when they reoffend. Then the circle starts again with early release, etc, etc!

If we want to live in a greatly reduced crime ridden society we have to pay for it.  We should also have more funds to rehabilitate those that want to be. But no, once again a lack of funds means that this happens less than it should, so the cycle repeats itself again.

We have to pay more for this, as we must for eduction and the NHS with associated services ;)
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Migv6 le Frog Fan

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Re: crime penalties
« Reply #7 on: 27 March 2017, 20:37:15 »

My first thought after reading that is, someone should be tasked with drastically cutting those £££ figures asap.
£40k per year to keep someone in prison ? If true, its madness. It should cost a fraction of that. For a start, give them the same food as is served to patients in NHS hospitals, that should save quite a few quid.  ;) :D

The old mantra "we must pay more for prisons, NHS, eduction ? ! has done the rounds for decades,and when we get a Labour Govt. they do just that. Throw almost unlimited sums of money at these institutions, and invariably make them worse.
Our current Justice, education and health services wont work no matter how much money is thrown at them. They are unfit for purpose, need chucking in the bin and starting again from scratch imo.
« Last Edit: 27 March 2017, 20:45:12 by Migv6 »
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Entwood

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Re: crime penalties
« Reply #8 on: 27 March 2017, 21:04:29 »

My first thought after reading that is, someone should be tasked with drastically cutting those £££ figures asap.
£40k per year to keep someone in prison ? If true, its madness. It should cost a fraction of that. For a start, give them the same food as is served to patients in NHS hospitals, that should save quite a few quid.  ;) :D

It is actually relatively easy to come to a figure even higher, take a prison wing with 50 inmates, would probably need a staff of three full time warders, working 8 hour shifts that means 12 staff per day without any holidays/sick days .. to cover them you need another 3 .. so  to run that wing over the year 15 staff. And that's with the inmates locked up 24/7, include rehabilitation, exercise, visiting supervision and you treble that to 45 staff. On around £20,000 that makes £900,000. They will require admin staff to process their pay etc etc .. at least 2 on £15,000 (£930,000), medical staff  as cover, 2 at £20,000 (£970,000), A supervisor per shift on £30,000 = £120,000 (£1,09,000) Prison Governor on £80,000 (£1,170,000). They will all need feeding so cooks, servers?? 10 on £15000 ?  £150,000 (£1,320,000) , cleaners ?? 5 x £15,000 ? £75,000 (£1,395,000). Prison chaplains? 3 at £28,000 is £84,000 (£1,479,000). Plumbers/painters/electricians/etc etc to maintain the building ?? 5 at £30,000 ? £150,000 (£1,629,000). and that is JUST a guess on salaries .. That leaves less than £400,000 a year to cover .. water, electricity, heating, food, medicines, cleaning materials, transport, fuel, maintenance, uniforms, clothing etc etc etc ...

However you slice it .. locking people up is NOT cheap....  :(
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Migv6 le Frog Fan

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Re: crime penalties
« Reply #9 on: 27 March 2017, 21:38:38 »

Common sense says it should be cheaper than it is. The disease of the UK public services is that they always find more ways of spending lots of other peoples money. It needs someone to do to the public sector what Thatcher did to the private sector. Basically, bring it into the real world.
Half hearted attempts have been made, but the truth is that no matter who is in 10 Downing St. the left have a firm grip on the levers of power throughout the public sector. It needs to be stopped.
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Andy B

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Re: crime penalties
« Reply #10 on: 27 March 2017, 23:36:42 »

Where do I send the money?

hear hear ......  :y
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Terbs

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Re: crime penalties
« Reply #11 on: 28 March 2017, 00:30:04 »

Double the amount Steve, for my contribution :y

Back to basics....hard labour, cull, 20 years for drugs, 10 for nicking a car, and so on. May make a few think twice. No ifs, no buts, full sentence. end off >:(
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raywilb

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Re: crime penalties
« Reply #12 on: 28 March 2017, 12:20:36 »

Whilst I appreciate all the "lock 'em up and throw away the keys" comments/mentality there are some serious downsides to that approach (and I'll focus ONLY on the financial aspects, not rehabilitation etc etc...

1. It costs approximately £65,000 to catch/prosecute/sentence someone to prison  when all the costs of hearings/courts/appeals/police attendance/CPS etc etc are included

2. It costs approximately £40,000 a year to lock someone up after food/prison staff/security/medical care etc etc is included

3. In the Uk there are approximately 70,000 prisoners in buildings designed to take 50,000. It is estimated that each new prison "place" costs £119,000 per person after planning/appeals/land purchase/building/training extra staff etc etc is taken into account

4. Every person locked up stops contributing to the tax system as they are no longer working, and their families will "probably" now be entitled to claim benefits (if they were not already). These are further costs to the government taxpayer

We ALL whinge and moan about income tax/council tax/VAT/VED etc etc as no-one wants to pay extra taxes ... but the money has to come from somewhere as the government has no money of its own, it only has what it takes from us ....

So if everyone is happy to pay £1000 more each year .. then yup .. we can start locking up all those who upset us in any way ...   :)
  all that may be , but why not hit the culprits with the cost of repairing damaged vehicles etc, and the thousand of pounds it may of cost to catch them.
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TheBoy

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Re: crime penalties
« Reply #13 on: 28 March 2017, 13:41:10 »

Whilst I appreciate all the "lock 'em up and throw away the keys" comments/mentality there are some serious downsides to that approach (and I'll focus ONLY on the financial aspects, not rehabilitation etc etc...

1. It costs approximately £65,000 to catch/prosecute/sentence someone to prison  when all the costs of hearings/courts/appeals/police attendance/CPS etc etc are included

2. It costs approximately £40,000 a year to lock someone up after food/prison staff/security/medical care etc etc is included

3. In the Uk there are approximately 70,000 prisoners in buildings designed to take 50,000. It is estimated that each new prison "place" costs £119,000 per person after planning/appeals/land purchase/building/training extra staff etc etc is taken into account

4. Every person locked up stops contributing to the tax system as they are no longer working, and their families will "probably" now be entitled to claim benefits (if they were not already). These are further costs to the government taxpayer

We ALL whinge and moan about income tax/council tax/VAT/VED etc etc as no-one wants to pay extra taxes ... but the money has to come from somewhere as the government has no money of its own, it only has what it takes from us ....

So if everyone is happy to pay £1000 more each year .. then yup .. we can start locking up all those who upset us in any way ...   :)
I have a much cheaper solution :P

And to save on funeral costs, lob 'em in the sea afterwards.
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Migv6 le Frog Fan

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Re: crime penalties
« Reply #14 on: 28 March 2017, 13:59:34 »

I,ll vote for that. :y
Seriously though. If we reintroduced hanging for the really worst examples of pondlife, it would save a fortune I would imagine.  :y
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