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Author Topic: #Fuse 29 - Fan  (Read 8937 times)

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Lookitt

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#Fuse 29 - Fan
« on: 29 April 2023, 13:07:09 »

(Omega Y32 2001) (France)

Hello,

I have a problem with fuse 29 (radiator fan).
The fuse blows a few seconds after turning on the air conditioning when it is hot, or a few minutes after turning on the air conditioning when it is less hot or cold outside.
I concluded that the air conditioning fans had a problem with the air temperature. That is to say that when they are hot, the fuse blow. A I Wrong ?

Is the a relay inside of the fan ? A relay who doesn't like the heat?

Thanks for help

Lookitt
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Re: #Fuse 29 - Fan
« Reply #1 on: 30 April 2023, 00:50:26 »

Aircon fans are in front of the radiator. Check both spin freely and report back  ;)
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Re: #Fuse 29 - Fan
« Reply #2 on: 30 April 2023, 09:43:41 »

All the relays are in the relay box.  Andy B posted up a diagram for how to test various fan functions from a test socket in the relay box.
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Re: #Fuse 29 - Fan
« Reply #3 on: 30 April 2023, 11:15:04 »

Aircon fans are in front of the radiator. Check both spin freely and report back  ;)

Thanks Doctor Gollum,

I know where the fans are and I know they are working.
The fuse blows after a few seconds when it is hot after several minutes when it is cold.
I know that the fuse don't blows when I don't start the air conditionned. And I know that the fuse blow when it's, so I think it is inside fan and not electrical cable but I'm Not sure, because I don't know how it is inside fan motor.
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Re: #Fuse 29 - Fan
« Reply #4 on: 30 April 2023, 11:17:21 »

All the relays are in the relay box.  Andy B posted up a diagram for how to test various fan functions from a test socket in the relay box.
Hello The Boy,

I'm interested, do you know where I can find Andy B's diagram?
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Re: #Fuse 29 - Fan
« Reply #5 on: 30 April 2023, 13:09:21 »

Aircon fans are in front of the radiator. Check both spin freely and report back  ;)

Thanks Doctor Gollum,

I know where the fans are and I know they are working.
The fuse blows after a few seconds when it is hot after several minutes when it is cold.
I know that the fuse don't blows when I don't start the air conditionned. And I know that the fuse blow when it's, so I think it is inside fan and not electrical cable but I'm Not sure, because I don't know how it is inside fan motor.
That isn't what I suggested. They might 'work' but if one is binding it will draw more current. They only switch on with air-conditioning or if the car is getting hot. You suggest that the fuse blows with air-conditioning.

With the car off, spin the fans by hand. Any tightness is a problem.
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Re: #Fuse 29 - Fan
« Reply #6 on: 01 May 2023, 09:50:52 »

All the relays are in the relay box.  Andy B posted up a diagram for how to test various fan functions from a test socket in the relay box.
Hello The Boy,

I'm interested, do you know where I can find Andy B's diagram?

That was years ago .... I've no idea myself now. I know it came via the Autobahnstormers site
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Re: #Fuse 29 - Fan
« Reply #9 on: 08 May 2023, 19:56:00 »

Aircon fans are in front of the radiator. Check both spin freely and report back  ;)

Thanks Doctor Gollum,

I know where the fans are and I know they are working.
The fuse blows after a few seconds when it is hot after several minutes when it is cold.
I know that the fuse don't blows when I don't start the air conditionned. And I know that the fuse blow when it's, so I think it is inside fan and not electrical cable but I'm Not sure, because I don't know how it is inside fan motor.
That isn't what I suggested. They might 'work' but if one is binding it will draw more current. They only switch on with air-conditioning or if the car is getting hot. You suggest that the fuse blows with air-conditioning.

With the car off, spin the fans by hand. Any tightness is a problem.

Ok I understand, I've spin the fans by hand, there is no resistance, the two fans turn identically
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Re: #Fuse 29 - Fan
« Reply #10 on: 16 May 2023, 18:57:40 »

No other idea ? :-\
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Re: #Fuse 29 - Fan
« Reply #11 on: 17 May 2023, 09:08:24 »

Back to basics, does the fuse blow with the fan disconnected.  Obviously, be cautious about engine cooling.
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Re: #Fuse 29 - Fan
« Reply #12 on: 31 May 2023, 21:19:52 »

I disconnected the first fan.
When I turn on the air conditioning, the other fan runs intermittently at high speed.
I no longer have a blown fuse.

So, I reconnected the fan and drive for about 20 minutes with air conditioning. The fuse still hasn't blown.  ???
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Re: #Fuse 29 - Fan
« Reply #13 on: 01 June 2023, 12:41:05 »

I dont have an Omega to check any more, but from memory:

A/C off (or A/C broken)
Front 2 fans are off, coming on slow speed when 1st temp switch hit (around 92C?), high speed when 2nd temp switch (97C?).
Slow speed fans will continue after ign switched off if 1st temp switch still activated.

A/C on (and functional)
Rearward fan on and front 2 on slow speed, front 2 high speed if 2nd temp reached
Front 2 slow speed stay on with ign off, if 1st temp switch activated


(Temps are the switch value, bear no relation to the dash, but should correlate-ish to ECU coolant temp sensor).  On V6, I seem to recall both temp switches are in the same screw-in module in the rad)


Can a v6 owner confirm my memory?

From this, further testing can be done by shorting out temp swicthes with a paperclip and a/c off, checking what happens.
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Re: #Fuse 29 - Fan
« Reply #14 on: 01 June 2023, 18:05:53 »

Two thermoswitches in the radiator.

There's a pretty comprehensive guide to testing the fan electricals  ;)
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Re: #Fuse 29 - Fan
« Reply #15 on: 01 June 2023, 20:50:45 »

I drove this afternoon, and passing over a speed bump (a bump), the fuse blew. I replaced it and disconnected the plug of the first front fan. Going back over a speed bump, the fuse blew. I renewed the operation on another bump and the fuse blown. I conclude that the first fan is not necessarily the cause and that during a shock (a bump) something happens causing the failure. Could a bad plug contact be the cause? Is this a reliable lead?

When the air conditioning is OFF, no fan operates. When the temperature reaches 92 degrees, only the 2 front fans operate at low speed. At almost 100 degrees second gear engages and so does the rear fan. This even if fuse 29 is blown.

When the air conditioning is ON and the fuse is not blown, the front fans operate at low speed. and in second gear if the temperature approaches 100 degrees.

Ultimately, if fuse 29 blows, the fans operate when triggered
 temperatures but the air conditioning does not work.
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Re: #Fuse 29 - Fan
« Reply #16 on: 01 June 2023, 20:57:41 »

Back to basics, does the fuse blow with the fan disconnected.  Obviously, be cautious about engine cooling.

Yes ! the fuse blew even if i disconnected the first fan, but not imediatly
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Re: #Fuse 29 - Fan
« Reply #17 on: 01 June 2023, 21:22:36 »

Your fans aren't working properly and you have a wiring fault.

Haynes wiring diagram and the fans guide will direct you through diagnosis.

Trying to do it remotely is akin to pissing uphill into the wind.
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Re: #Fuse 29 - Fan
« Reply #18 on: 01 June 2023, 21:27:05 »

Indeed, a remote diagnosis is not simple. I appeal to people who know the Omega because Opel has not found.
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Re: #Fuse 29 - Fan
« Reply #19 on: 01 June 2023, 21:54:33 »

Could fuse 29 be linked to the air conditioning compressor, which could have a fault?
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Re: #Fuse 29 - Fan
« Reply #20 on: 01 June 2023, 22:15:50 »

Indeed, a remote diagnosis is not simple. I appeal to people who know the Omega because Opel has not found.
Follow the guide for testing the fans.

This process will identify the source of the problem. Or stop driving over bumps.
« Last Edit: 01 June 2023, 22:19:12 by Doctor Gollum »
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Re: #Fuse 29 - Fan
« Reply #21 on: 01 June 2023, 22:18:22 »

Could fuse 29 be linked to the air conditioning compressor, which could have a fault?
Er, no.

That's to say the aircon compressor may well be faulty, but it is a mechanical component not an electrical one.
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Re: #Fuse 29 - Fan
« Reply #22 on: 01 June 2023, 22:21:47 »

Could fuse 29 be linked to the air conditioning compressor, which could have a fault?
Er, no.

That's to say the aircon compressor may well be faulty, but it is a mechanical component not an electrical one.
The AC clutch works off them magic electric pixies  :P 
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Re: #Fuse 29 - Fan
« Reply #23 on: 01 June 2023, 22:22:09 »

Could fuse 29 be linked to the air conditioning compressor, which could have a fault?
Er, no.

That's to say the aircon compressor may well be faulty, but it is a mechanical component not an electrical one.


Not the compressor's magnetic clutch?
« Last Edit: 01 June 2023, 22:23:57 by Lookitt »
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Re: #Fuse 29 - Fan
« Reply #24 on: 02 June 2023, 11:17:23 »

I'm away, and not got access to wiring diagrams.

You can always unplug the compressor (single connector, from memory, underneath it, and see if that stops it blowing.
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Re: #Fuse 29 - Fan
« Reply #25 on: 02 June 2023, 14:54:19 »

Could fuse 29 be linked to the air conditioning compressor, which could have a fault?
Er, no.

That's to say the aircon compressor may well be faulty, but it is a mechanical component not an electrical one.
The AC clutch works off them magic electric pixies  :P
The fuse blows going over bumps. Not a mechanical problem. And certainly not one caused by the compressor clutch.

Start with the basics.

The fans don't work properly.

Not going to repeat it a fourth time. Follow the guide to test the fans and trace the wiring using the Haynes wiring diagram testing the wiring as you go.
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Re: #Fuse 29 - Fan
« Reply #27 on: 03 June 2023, 01:21:41 »

I think the fans are a red herring. F29 does not power any of the fans directly. F29 provides the power to the coils of the relays which then turn the fans on and off. So if F29 blows then the fans won't work, because the relays won't turn on. But it won't be the fans that are blowing the fuse - because other fuses (F52) are used in the switch terminals to the fans. Power to the fans themselves does not pass through F29.

Unfortunatly F29 powers a load of things. The circuits suggest it powers CSR[1329], MK[2206], MK[2305], SH[3708], MCO[3047], IRL[1404] and AB[2649].
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Re: #Fuse 29 - Fan
« Reply #28 on: 03 June 2023, 01:38:26 »

My bet would be SH[3705]. This is the front seat heating. It seems F29 provides power to the dashboard seat heating switches S30 and S55. From there there are connections to K183 and K184 which are the front left and front right seat heating controllers.

I had a load of problems with fuse F15 blowing. After much grief it turned out that when some lardy arsed driver moved slightly (over a speed bump for instance) it would somehow short out the seat heating, causing the fuse to blow. In my case it was F15, but both F15 and F29 feed the seat heating controllers so its possible what you are getting is similar.

The simple test is to pull out both dashboard seat heating controls (the knobs). That will disconnect F29 from the seat heating controllers. If F29 then stops blowing then it's fairly conclusive that the heated seats are your issue too.
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Re: #Fuse 29 - Fan
« Reply #29 on: 03 June 2023, 06:08:14 »

You might be onto something, however...

The fans aren't working correctly so there is an issue there that needs addressing  ;)
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Re: #Fuse 29 - Fan
« Reply #30 on: 03 June 2023, 12:27:10 »

My bet would be SH[3705]. This is the front seat heating. It seems F29 provides power to the dashboard seat heating switches S30 and S55. From there there are connections to K183 and K184 which are the front left and front right seat heating controllers.

I had a load of problems with fuse F15 blowing. After much grief it turned out that when some lardy arsed driver moved slightly (over a speed bump for instance) it would somehow short out the seat heating, causing the fuse to blow. In my case it was F15, but both F15 and F29 feed the seat heating controllers so its possible what you are getting is similar.

The simple test is to pull out both dashboard seat heating controls (the knobs). That will disconnect F29 from the seat heating controllers. If F29 then stops blowing then it's fairly conclusive that the heated seats are your issue too.

Even if the heated seats are not on? The F29 fuse problem only occurs if I turn on the air conditioning. If I don't turn on the air conditioning, the fuse never blows. If I put the "ECO" blower on, the fuse does not blow. If I remove "ECO" I switch to air conditioning, fuse F29 blows.
« Last Edit: 03 June 2023, 12:32:44 by Lookitt »
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Re: #Fuse 29 - Fan
« Reply #31 on: 03 June 2023, 12:34:56 »

You might be onto something, however...

The fans aren't working correctly so there is an issue there that needs addressing  ;)

What makes you say that the fans are not working properly? Because even with the F29 fuse blown they play their cooling role.
I'm sorry, even if you're not going to repeat it for the fourth time as you wrote it, I don't understand how to do the test from the plan you attached, I'm not very knowledgeable on the subject, and the translation of the document.
« Last Edit: 03 June 2023, 12:37:37 by Lookitt »
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Re: #Fuse 29 - Fan
« Reply #32 on: 03 June 2023, 13:00:46 »

Unfortunatly F29 powers a load of things. The circuits suggest it powers CSR[1329], MK[2206], MK[2305], SH[3708], MCO[3047], IRL[1404] and AB[2649].

CSR[1329] goes to K153 which is the "Relay - Consumer switch-off, time delay"
MK[2206] goes to K26,K52,K67,K60 and P109. These are the coils of the relays to some of the Fans - I think on cars WITHOUT climate control. F29 does not power the fans themselves. It does power the compressor clutch (via K60).
MK[2305] goes to K60, K52, K28, K67 and K22. These are the relays of the coils controlling the Fans - I think on cars WITH climate control. again  F29 does not power the fans themselves. It does power the compressor clutch (via K60).
SH[3708] is the front seat heating dash controls as already explained.
MCO[3047] goes to K149, which is "Control Unit - Minimum Capacity, Engine oil"
IRL[1404] goes to E41 which is "Lamp - Passenger compartment, disconnect delay"
AB[2649] goes to P85 which is "Sensor pad (for Seat Occupied Detection)"

K60 is the relay which controls the AC compressor, so either MK[2206] or MK[2305] are relevant (depending which version of the wiring your car has). K60 does switch F29 power onto the compressor clutch (Y1), so a fault in the compressor clutch can blow F29. I have had a compressor clutch go short circuit before on the LC, and it's basically the same design as the OmegaB. To check if that is the fault, either unplug the compressor connector, or pull out relay K60. 

If the compressor clutch is faulty then you'll either need a complete replacement compressor, or read up on youtube how to replace the compressor clutch on a Harrison V5 compressor. This can be done without removing the compressor from the car, so you don't have to have it de-gassed and re-gassed. New Replacement clutches are about 50 IIRC (from eBay).
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Re: #Fuse 29 - Fan
« Reply #33 on: 03 June 2023, 13:17:45 »

You might be onto something, however...

The fans aren't working correctly so there is an issue there that needs addressing  ;)

What makes you say that the fans are not working properly? Because even with the F29 fuse blown they play their cooling role.
I'm sorry, even if you're not going to repeat it for the fourth time as you wrote it, I don't understand how to do the test from the plan you attached, I'm not very knowledgeable on the subject, and the translation of the document.
From your description of the fan function, they aren't working correctly. There must be a reason for this.

Switching on the aircon alters how the fans function.

These two things are related. Ergo you need to identify which part isn't working and why.

The fans are self controlled by means of thermoswitches in the radiator. The relays are fed via the fuse that keeps blowing, although the actual power to the fans comes from elsewhere. The only other inputs are from the aircon panel and the engine ECU, although the self contained fan arrangement is pretty efficient at controlling coolant temp.

My availability is limited, but if you can bring the car to Sussex I would be prepared to diagnose it for a fee.
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Re: #Fuse 29 - Fan
« Reply #34 on: 03 June 2023, 13:31:29 »

Thank you for the details
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Re: #Fuse 29 - Fan
« Reply #35 on: 07 June 2023, 21:30:00 »

I'm away, and not got access to wiring diagrams.

You can always unplug the compressor (single connector, from memory, underneath it, and see if that stops it blowing.


It looks like you got it right. I unplugged the compressor and cleaned the plug which was full of oil. (engine leak). Looks like the compressor plug is also connected to fuse 29. Maybe there was a bad contact, though I'm not sure if the oil is electrically conductive but I plugged it back in and since 50 km, I no longer have the fuse that blows. I wait a little longer before rejoicing.
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Re: #Fuse 29 - Fan
« Reply #36 on: 08 June 2023, 10:15:33 »

Fingers cross :). Though oil is normally non conductive IIRC?

If it still happens, might be worth unplugging and driving for a couple of hundred km, seeing as it only happens with the A/C on, and you've proven no individual fan motor is causing it.
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Re: #Fuse 29 - Fan
« Reply #37 on: 08 June 2023, 13:13:42 »

..... Though oil is normally non conductive IIRC?

 .....

The loom for the low oil level sensor sits in the sump so oil can't be conductive  :y
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Re: #Fuse 29 - Fan
« Reply #38 on: 15 June 2023, 20:58:40 »

Fingers cross :). Though oil is normally non conductive IIRC?

If it still happens, might be worth unplugging and driving for a couple of hundred km, seeing as it only happens with the A/C on, and you've proven no individual fan motor is causing it.


Anyway thank you for putting me on this track, I've done 650 km since then and no more problems.
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TheBoy

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Re: #Fuse 29 - Fan
« Reply #39 on: 16 June 2023, 13:55:00 »

Good to hear  :y
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