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[STEMO]

The US Supreme Court has overruled the 50 year old law giving women a choice on abortion. The Taliban would be proud of them.

[Doctor Gollum]

In 1981, then-Senator Joe Biden voted for a constitutional amendment allowing states to overturn Roe v. Wade, which he voted against the following year.[313] In a 2007 memoir, Biden expressed an opinion that although he was "personally opposed to abortion" he did not have the "right to impose" his personal opposition onto others.[314] In 2021, he described himself to reporters as "a strong supporter of Roe v. Wade", and added, "And I under- — I respect people who think that — who don't support Roe v. Wade; I respect their views. I respect them — they — those who believe life begins at the moment of conception and all. I respect that. Don't agree, but I respect that. I'm not going to impose that on people."[315]

[STEMO]

In 1981, then-Senator Joe Biden voted for a constitutional amendment allowing states to overturn Roe v. Wade, which he voted against the following year.[313] In a 2007 memoir, Biden expressed an opinion that although he was "personally opposed to abortion" he did not have the "right to impose" his personal opposition onto others.[314] In 2021, he described himself to reporters as "a strong supporter of Roe v. Wade", and added, "And I under- — I respect people who think that — who don't support Roe v. Wade; I respect their views. I respect them — they — those who believe life begins at the moment of conception and all. I respect that. Don't agree, but I respect that. I'm not going to impose that on people."[315]

Yes......and? 

[STEMO]

Biden doesn't believe in abortion but wouldn't impose his beliefs on other people. Whereas, the Taliban Republicans would.

[Doctor Gollum]

Be interesting to see if the Barry publically takes the same line as his wife...

After all, he IS the puppet master. So the decision to overturn it will have been his.

[STEMO]

Be interesting to see if the Barry publically takes the same line as his wife...

After all, he IS the puppet master. So the decision to overturn it will have been his.

I'm not really interested in which politician takes which line. It's a done deal and it only remains to be seen whether the states which now offer abortion services will be allowed to continue. If so, poor women will be disadvantaged because they won't be able to afford to travel hundreds/thousands of miles. If not, see my first post.

[Doctor Gollum]

It's a backwards step on several levels. Even Texas, which is strongly anti abortion as a State, protects women from legal proceedings in the event of unwanted pregnancy through rape or incest.

[ronnyd]

Be interesting to see if the Barry publically takes the same line as his wife...

After all, he IS the puppet master. So the decision to overturn it will have been his.

Who? 

[Sir Tigger KC]

Blimey there will be much wailing and knashing of teeth about this over the pond!   

[STEMO]

Blimey there will be much wailing and knashing of teeth about this over the pond!   

Maybe more, there's plenty of guns knocking about 

[Doctor Gollum]

Be interesting to see if the Barry publically takes the same line as his wife...

After all, he IS the puppet master. So the decision to overturn it will have been his.

Who? 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_(2016_film)

[Sir Tigger KC]

Be interesting to see if the Barry publically takes the same line as his wife...

After all, he IS the puppet master. So the decision to overturn it will have been his.

Eh? You think that this is Barak Obama's doing? 

How so when this is a decision of the Supreme Court which now has a six to three conservative majority thanks to Trumpy.     

[STEMO]

Be interesting to see if the Barry publically takes the same line as his wife...

After all, he IS the puppet master. So the decision to overturn it will have been his.

Who? 

He likes to appear clever, Ron, but mostly fails. 

[Doctor Gollum]

Be interesting to see if the Barry publically takes the same line as his wife...

After all, he IS the puppet master. So the decision to overturn it will have been his.

Eh? You think that this is Barak Obama's doing? 

How so when this is a decision of the Supreme Court which now has a six to three conservative majority thanks to Trumpy.     

Thought Sippy Cup had stuffed a couple more 'appropriate' judges in there...

[Sir Tigger KC]

Be interesting to see if the Barry publically takes the same line as his wife...

After all, he IS the puppet master. So the decision to overturn it will have been his.

Eh? You think that this is Barak Obama's doing? 

How so when this is a decision of the Supreme Court which now has a six to three conservative majority thanks to Trumpy.     

Thought Sippy Cup had stuffed a couple more 'appropriate' judges in there...

Nope. Someone has to die or retire for a new Supreme Court Judge to be appointed.

There was talk of the Dems changing the rules so that they could 'pack the court', but that would probably have required legislation or possibly even an amendment of the constitution. 

Either way, it would have been massively controversial and I think we'd have heard about it. 

[STEMO]

For me, personally, it's just another step towards 'Please nuke the west, Vlad, it's way past it's sell by date'

[Migalot]

Seems very few understand that this ruling merely returns the question of abortion law from Federal to State level as Roe vs. Wade was legally unconstitutional.

But never let acts get in the way of a good riot. 

[STEMO]

I think most people understand perfectly, you condescending bastard. The fact remains that over 20 states can now enact or reinstate their own abortion laws, with probably more to follow. As I stated earlier, this creates problems for females living within those states who cannot afford to travel for an abortion. A totally barbaric two tier system where, in some states, women are denied rights that have been established in the civilised world for decades.
But never let the facts get in the way of logging in for a quick snipe, as is your wont.

[Doctor Gollum]

You're not you when you're hungry

It’s a valid point though. Some states have been at odds with the status quo and have strong legislation protecting the rights of women to free choice and others have passed legislation to allow abortion in certain specific circumstances whilst effectively making abortion illegal from six weeks, when apparently a woman may not realise they are pregnant.

Obviously, the ideal is not to have unplanned pregnancies, but that is as much to do with education as it is with archaic laws. And unfortunately many Americans take their religion seriously, regardless of social status and politics... So perhaps things should start there.

Outlawing abortion may gave been appropriate at a time when it was medically dangerous, but that was, or should have been, a lifetime ago 

[Migalot]

I think most people understand perfectly, you condescending bastard.

Nasty, nasty comment. Civility is obviously not your forte

I was referring to the many in the US who have been whipped up into a frenzy since the leaked ruling and who will now choose to resort to violence. Besides which, what the SCOTUS rules is hardly our business. 

[Sir Tigger KC]

Well whatever your thoughts on the rights and wrongs of abortion and the laws in America, this will certainly bring a new dimension to elections at State level.

It might not work out so well for America's bible bashing conservative ultras. 

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

I heard a nutter on the radio this morning who insisted a woman should not be allowed an abortion even when raped by a stranger or inseminated by her father or brother (or both ).....It's not the fault of the unborn was his persistent mantra.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Well whatever your thoughts on the rights and wrongs of abortion and the laws in America, this will certainly bring a new dimension to elections at State level.

It might not work out so well for America's bible bashing conservative ultras. 

As we grow older and mature we tend to get more 'right leaning'......however the religious right and 'no abortion are any cost' crazies are not for me.

[Sir Tigger KC]

Well whatever your thoughts on the rights and wrongs of abortion and the laws in America, this will certainly bring a new dimension to elections at State level.

It might not work out so well for America's bible bashing conservative ultras. 

As we grow older and mature we tend to get more 'right leaning'......however the religious right and 'no abortion are any cost' crazies are not for me.

No me neither, but I do think that abortion is a somewhat abstract concept for most people.

I reckon most people would be utterly appalled if they saw what goes in the bucket after an abortion. 

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Ok - devils advocate, cat among the pigeons etc.
Apart from the fact that abortion has become almost, just another from of contraception - how can it be promoted on the grounds of a woman having the right to choose over her own body ?
The state of being pregnant is a woman having another body inside her body.
Whatever the problems or issues around a pregnancy, is killing the baby really the best solution ?
When abortions are carried out after the fetus has developed into a recognisable small human, I have been told that it involves pulling off its various limbs and head in order to get it out easily
If thats the case, is it really right and moral ?
In these days of freely available contraception in all its forms, why are there so many abortions anyway ?

Whatever the arguments, and rights & wrongs of the whole thing - when you have a left wing nutter like Hilary Clinton stating that abortion, right up to the moment of delivery is perfectly fine, you will get a reaction against it.
To my mind, a reasonable compromise might be to allow it while it is still a bunch of cells, but have a cut off point before it is actually a recognisable baby ?
Medical advances over the years mean that babies are now born prematurely, and survive, who could have been legally aborted.
That doesnt sit quite right with me.
Im honestly not sure about the whole thing tbh, but Im not just going to go along with the accepted wisdom either, without questioning it.

And no, Im not a Catholic. Far from it actually. 

[Doctor Gollum]

Texas draw the line at a measurable pulse, approximately six weeks.

Under their law, the father can sue if the mother has an abortion after this point unless they raped her/directly related (parent/sibling) in which case they lose their 'right' to sue. Similarly for medical reasons.

This isn't the same as protecting the mother from prosecution, but does at least allow some leeway for getting an abortion elsewhere.

Forcing an unwanted pregnancy to run full term does not achieve much as it potentially destroys the livelihood of the mother and you can almost guarantee that the infant will be straight up for adoption. And that's just the start of a whole different problem. Growing up knowing that you were totally unwanted never ends well.

Fundamentally the choice should be that of the pregnant woman/girl, not of society or government, but there obviously a necessity to have some formal guidance in place and access to swift treatment to not only reach a legal decision but also medically on a case by case basis.

Unfortunately once the legal system gets involved, everything turns to molasses and no one wins

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Ok - devils advocate, cat among the pigeons etc.
Apart from the fact that abortion has become almost, just another from of contraception - how can it be promoted on the grounds of a woman having the right to choose over her own body ?
The state of being pregnant is a woman having another body inside her body.
Whatever the problems or issues around a pregnancy, is killing the baby really the best solution ?
When abortions are carried out after the fetus has developed into a recognisable small human, I have been told that it involves pulling off its various limbs and head in order to get it out easily
If thats the case, is it really right and moral ?
In these days of freely available contraception in all its forms, why are there so many abortions anyway ?

Whatever the arguments, and rights & wrongs of the whole thing - when you have a left wing nutter like Hilary Clinton stating that abortion, right up to the moment of delivery is perfectly fine, you will get a reaction against it.
To my mind, a reasonable compromise might be to allow it while it is still a bunch of cells, but have a cut off point before it is actually a recognisable baby ?
Medical advances over the years mean that babies are now born prematurely, and survive, who could have been legally aborted.
That doesnt sit quite right with me.
Im honestly not sure about the whole thing tbh, but Im not just going to go along with the accepted wisdom either, without questioning it.

And no, Im not a Catholic. Far from it actually. 

If it was put there by a rapist or her dad, then yes.

The left are trying to push the time limits though and this can lead to problems. Abortions at forty weeks for example.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Texas draw the line at a measurable pulse, approximately six weeks.

Under their law, the father can sue if the mother has an abortion after this point unless they raped her/directly related (parent/sibling) in which case they lose their 'right' to sue. Similarly for medical reasons.

This isn't the same as protecting the mother from prosecution, but does at least allow some leeway for getting an abortion elsewhere.

Forcing an unwanted pregnancy to run full term does not achieve much as it potentially destroys the livelihood of the mother and you can almost guarantee that the infant will be straight up for adoption. And that's just the start of a whole different problem. Growing up knowing that you were totally unwanted never ends well.

Fundamentally the choice should be that of the pregnant woman/girl, not of society or government, but there obviously a necessity to have some formal guidance in place and access to swift treatment to not only reach a legal decision but also medically on a case by case basis.

Unfortunately once the legal system gets involved, everything turns to molasses and no one wins

Elizabeth  Warren  was spitting feathers as she used the term 'pregnant people'  so as not to exclude the men who can also drop a sprog in 2022.  

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

An unwanted pregnancy running to full term can cause serious problems in later life for the child. Ive seen it first hand.
There are also a lot of adopted people who grow up to have very fulfilling rewarding lives in adulthood.
However, the question still remains, is getting rid of the baby a solution to the problems that may possibly occur ?
Taking it the next step further, why not make it legal for Mothers to kill their children after they have been born, because they  decide they dont want them.
Why is it fundamentally so very different when the child is still inside the Mothers body ?
It seems the whole argument is framed around woman being free to live their lives without constraints being placed on them by society in general and men in particular.
Problem is, it doesnt take any rights of the unborn child into account, because it is deemed that the baby has no rights, including the right to live until it is born. It is just a part of its mothers body until its born, just like an appendix.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

An unwanted pregnancy running to full term can cause serious problems in later life for the child. Ive seen it first hand.
There are also a lot of adopted people who grow up to have very fulfilling rewarding lives in adulthood.
However, the question still remains, is getting rid of the baby a solution to the problems that may possibly occur ?
Taking it the next step further, why not make it legal for Mothers to kill their children after they have been born, because they  decide they dont want them.
Why is it fundamentally so very different when the child is still inside the Mothers body ?
It seems the whole argument is framed around woman being free to live their lives without constraints being placed on them by society in general and men in particular.
Problem is, it doesnt take any rights of the unborn child into account, because it is deemed that the baby has no rights, including the right to live until it is born. It is just a part of its mothers body until its born, just like an appendix.

It is an imperfect compromise.

The woman has the right to abort.....but only up to a certain point.

Some on the left (hopefully very few) want the right to abort right up to birth. The law in the UK is probably about right.

[Sir Tigger KC]

Texas draw the line at a measurable pulse, approximately six weeks.

A lot of pregnant people wouldn't even know that they are pregnant at six weeks. 

When the Republic of Ireland legalised abortion recently the pro-choice crowd were rapturous, but what wasn't mentioned much was that the term limit was twelve weeks. In the UK it is twenty four weeks, (approximately six months) which personally I think should be revisited and reduced for much the same reasons that Albs outlined above.   

It would be massively controversial though.   

Incidentally approximately 200,000 abortions are carried out every year in the UK.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Texas draw the line at a measurable pulse, approximately six weeks.

A lot of pregnant people wouldn't even know that they are pregnant at six weeks. 

When the Republic of Ireland legalised abortion recently the pro-choice crowd were rapturous, but what wasn't mentioned much was that the term limit was twelve weeks. In the UK it is twenty four weeks, (approximately six months) which personally I think should be revisited and reduced for much the same reasons that Albs outlined above.   

It would be massively controversial though.   

Incidentally approximately 200,000 abortions are carried out every year in the UK.

Don't start....

[Sir Tigger KC]

Texas draw the line at a measurable pulse, approximately six weeks.

A lot of pregnant people wouldn't even know that they are pregnant at six weeks. 

When the Republic of Ireland legalised abortion recently the pro-choice crowd were rapturous, but what wasn't mentioned much was that the term limit was twelve weeks. In the UK it is twenty four weeks, (approximately six months) which personally I think should be revisited and reduced for much the same reasons that Albs outlined above.   

It would be massively controversial though.   

Incidentally approximately 200,000 abortions are carried out every year in the UK.

Don't start....

 

[Migalot]

Ok - devils advocate, cat among the pigeons etc.
Apart from the fact that abortion has become almost, just another from of contraception - how can it be promoted on the grounds of a woman having the right to choose over her own body ?
The state of being pregnant is a woman having another body inside her body.
Whatever the problems or issues around a pregnancy, is killing the baby really the best solution ?
When abortions are carried out after the fetus has developed into a recognisable small human, I have been told that it involves pulling off its various limbs and head in order to get it out easily
If thats the case, is it really right and moral ?
In these days of freely available contraception in all its forms, why are there so many abortions anyway ?

Whatever the arguments, and rights & wrongs of the whole thing - when you have a left wing nutter like Hilary Clinton stating that abortion, right up to the moment of delivery is perfectly fine, you will get a reaction against it.
To my mind, a reasonable compromise might be to allow it while it is still a bunch of cells, but have a cut off point before it is actually a recognisable baby ?
Medical advances over the years mean that babies are now born prematurely, and survive, who could have been legally aborted.
That doesnt sit quite right with me.
Im honestly not sure about the whole thing tbh, but Im not just going to go along with the accepted wisdom either, without questioning it.

And no, Im not a Catholic. Far from it actually. 

I largely agree with you.

It must be remembered that the issue is very divisive and the views of people in Red states like Texas and Blue states like California are, on this and a number of issues (like gun laws and immigration) poles apart. The SCOTUS ruling is that law on this subject should be passed on a state, not federal, level. It's a constitutional issue and, as I said earlier, it is a matter for the America to decide. Unfortunately, it should be noted that BLM and Antifa are already acting in a very bellicose manner (egged on by people like Maxine Walters) which makes me think that the issue will be used a pretence for ugly violence by the militant left.

I dread to think what will occur this weekend. 

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Ok - devils advocate, cat among the pigeons etc.
Apart from the fact that abortion has become almost, just another from of contraception - how can it be promoted on the grounds of a woman having the right to choose over her own body ?
The state of being pregnant is a woman having another body inside her body.
Whatever the problems or issues around a pregnancy, is killing the baby really the best solution ?
When abortions are carried out after the fetus has developed into a recognisable small human, I have been told that it involves pulling off its various limbs and head in order to get it out easily
If thats the case, is it really right and moral ?
In these days of freely available contraception in all its forms, why are there so many abortions anyway ?

Whatever the arguments, and rights & wrongs of the whole thing - when you have a left wing nutter like Hilary Clinton stating that abortion, right up to the moment of delivery is perfectly fine, you will get a reaction against it.
To my mind, a reasonable compromise might be to allow it while it is still a bunch of cells, but have a cut off point before it is actually a recognisable baby ?
Medical advances over the years mean that babies are now born prematurely, and survive, who could have been legally aborted.
That doesnt sit quite right with me.
Im honestly not sure about the whole thing tbh, but Im not just going to go along with the accepted wisdom either, without questioning it.

And no, Im not a Catholic. Far from it actually. 

I largely agree with you.

It must be remembered that the issue is very divisive and the views of people in Red states like Texas and Blue states like California are, on this and a number of issues (like gun laws and immigration) poles apart. The SCOTUS ruling is that law on this subject should be passed on a state, not federal, level. It's a constitutional issue and, as I said earlier, it is a matter for the America to decide. Unfortunately, it should be noted that BLM and Antifa are already acting in a very bellicose manner (egged on by people like Maxine Walters) which makes me think that the issue will be used a pretence for ugly violence by the militant left.

I dread to think what will occur this weekend.

Belligerent democrats will torch their own neighbourhoods.

They like that sort of thing.

Free trainers and wide screen TV anyone?

[Doctor Gollum]

Texas draw the line at a measurable pulse, approximately six weeks.

A lot of pregnant people wouldn't even know that they are pregnant at six weeks. 

When the Republic of Ireland legalised abortion recently the pro-choice crowd were rapturous, but what wasn't mentioned much was that the term limit was twelve weeks. In the UK it is twenty four weeks, (approximately six months) which personally I think should be revisited and reduced for much the same reasons that Albs outlined above.   

It would be massively controversial though.   

Incidentally approximately 200,000 abortions are carried out every year in the UK.

I think this is why they have allowed for certain circumstances.

Taking the morning after pill in addition to other readily available contraceptive methods is something that should be freely available, discussed and even encouraged. And this is where much of the work needs to be done.

Obviously, '' every sperm is sacred', so there's that too...

[STEMO]

I think most people understand perfectly, you condescending bastard.

Nasty, nasty comment. Civility is obviously not your forte

I was referring to the many in the US who have been whipped up into a frenzy since the leaked ruling and who will now choose to resort to violence. Besides which, what the SCOTUS rules is hardly our business.

Me, nasty? Never. Ask anyone.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

https://youtu.be/eciDVOAIXHc

Anyway....giving birth is a piece of piss for a Yorkshire woman. I don't know what all the fuss is about.

[Sir Tigger KC]

For those who are not particularly squeamish the link below has a photo of the collection of cells that make up an 18 week foetus.

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2019/nov/18/foetus-images-lennart-nilsson-photojournalist

The UK's term limit is 24 weeks and most Western European countries limits are between 12 and 14 weeks. France for example bans abortion after 12 weeks.

Apparently the new laws in Florida, Virginia and Mississippi will ban abortion after 15 weeks making them more liberal than France and most other Western European countries.  Who knew?     

Some US states will of course enact complete bans. 

[Viral_Jim]

To frame this as about the rights of children is disingenuous in the extreme given what the US won't do for them and the mothers who give birth to them after they are born. I lifted this direct from Twitter, but I agree with most/all of it. And I don't consider any of the below to be namby pamby left wing handouts to irresponsible mother's, everything below benefits the child. Which is the paper thin premise SCOTUS used to come to their decision.

If it was about babies, we’d have excellent and free universal maternal care. You wouldn’t be charged a cent to give birth, no matter how complicated your delivery was. If it was about babies, we’d have months and months of parental leave, for everyone.

If it was about babies, we’d have free lactation consultants, free diapers, free formula. If it was about babies, we’d have free and excellent childcare from newborns on. If it was about babies, we’d have universal preschool and pre-k and guaranteed after school placements.

If it was about babies, IVF and adoption wouldn’t just be for folks with thousands and thousands of dollars to spend on expanding their families.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

It is very much about namby pamby left wing handouts. Just like we have in this country. If you cant afford to have them and bring them up, dont get pregnant.
The U.S. became the richest country in the world because it was built on the principle of working for what you want in life.
No free lunches. I wish we had more of it here.

[Lizzie Zoom]

For those who are not particularly squeamish the link below has a photo of the collection of cells that make up an 18 week foetus.

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2019/nov/18/foetus-images-lennart-nilsson-photojournalist

The UK's term limit is 24 weeks and most Western European countries limits are between 12 and 14 weeks. France for example bans abortion after 12 weeks.

Apparently the new laws in Florida, Virginia and Mississippi will ban abortion after 15 weeks making them more liberal than France and most other Western European countries.  Who knew?     

Some US states will of course enact complete bans.

And that is the problem.

Women must have the right to decide whether or not to keep a pregnancy up to an acceptable time limit. They may be pregnant due to being rapped, or forced upon by a predatory male husband or partner, or discover that a serious medical situation is now involved in their case.

It is not a case of falling pregnant and deciding you cannot afford it so don’t get pregnant in the first place.  That is a typical ignorant male argument who cannot envisage there being many other factors in each case of a women finding out she is expecting.

We as women have the right to decide, within a decent time limit, what will happen to our bodies and psychological state if we continue with a pregnancy. It should be no one’s business but that of the women given her circumstances, and in the context of the USA that is being discussed in this thread, the huge financial commitment as they will not benefit from a free health care system.

It cannot be down to any man to decide the rules for a women up to a certain time limit, may it be 14, 24, or any other limit of weeks, as they can simply walk away from it all if so inclined to do so. It must always be down to the women to decide her fate at that stage, and that of the collection of cells she has inside her.

What has transpired in the US is a real step backwards, and a further step in the decline of that once great country.  This is a very divisive legal / political decision that has instantly further divided this nation, which in recent years is adding to my belief that, like all great empires, is now imploding after their American century.  For US women though, they will now suffer from this bad decision and many lives will be lost due to the medically correct early pregnancy decisions not being able to be enacted to terminate due to a legal / political decision taken by their Supreme Court. :'( :'( :'(

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

For those who are not particularly squeamish the link below has a photo of the collection of cells that make up an 18 week foetus.

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2019/nov/18/foetus-images-lennart-nilsson-photojournalist

The UK's term limit is 24 weeks and most Western European countries limits are between 12 and 14 weeks. France for example bans abortion after 12 weeks.

Apparently the new laws in Florida, Virginia and Mississippi will ban abortion after 15 weeks making them more liberal than France and most other Western European countries.  Who knew?     

Some US states will of course enact complete bans.

And that is the problem.

Women must have the right to decide whether or not to keep a pregnancy up to an acceptable time limit. They may be pregnant due to being rapped, or forced upon by a predatory male husband or partner, or discover that a serious medical situation is now involved in their case.

It is not a case of falling pregnant and deciding you cannot afford it so don’t get pregnant in the first place.  That is a typical ignorant male argument who cannot envisage there being many other factors in each case of a women finding out she is expecting.

We as women have the right to decide, within a decent time limit, what will happen to our bodies and psychological state if we continue with a pregnancy. It should be no one’s business but that of the women given her circumstances, and in the context of the USA that is being discussed in this thread, the huge financial commitment as they will not benefit from a free health care system.

It cannot be down to any man to decide the rules for a women up to a certain time limit, may it be 14, 24, or any other limit of weeks, as they can simply walk away from it all if so inclined to do so. It must always be down to the women to decide her fate at that stage, and that of the collection of cells she has inside her.

What has transpired in the US is a real step backwards, and a further step in the decline of that once great country.  This is a very divisive legal / political decision that has instantly further divided this nation, which in recent years is adding to my belief that, like all great empires, is now imploding after their American century.  For US women though, they will now suffer from this bad decision and many lives will be lost due to the medically correct early pregnancy decisions not being able to be enacted to terminate due to a legal / political decision taken by their Supreme Court. :'( :'( :'(

I tend to agree with most of what Lizzie says.....I shall now lay down in a darkened room.

The 'travel part' puts me in mind of the NI situation were women would come across to England. I think the law has now been changed.

[Doctor Gollum]

Which shows how much you understand of the decision LZ 

"We therefore hold that the Constitution does not confer a right to abortion. Roe and Casey must be overruled, and the authority to regulate abortion must be returned to the people and their elected representatives."

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

I was sorely tempted to reply to the utter drivel, but whats the point ? 

[Doctor Gollum]

I was sorely tempted to reply to the utter drivel, but whats the point ? 

Good point well presented 

[Lizzie Zoom]

Which shows how much you understand of the decision LZ 

"We therefore hold that the Constitution does not confer a right to abortion. Roe and Casey must be overruled, and the authority to regulate abortion must be returned to the people and their elected representatives."

Oh yes, I understand it all only too well!

The American Constitution has and is a real block on the rights of all American’s to lead a modern, and safe, life. It is no way to run a huge country in the 21st century with something drafted in the 18th and so hard to change politically. The failure to address Woman's rights and the infamous right to bear arms legislation within the Constitution all lead to unnecessary deaths, and are not being addressed due to a rigid, square wheeled and unworkable system.

Something will eventually break in American society, which is already polarised and is encouraging civil revolt like that seen on January 6th 2021 because one side cannot accept the others point of view, nor reach any form of compromise, which in a democracy we normally do, but in the USA currently seems not possible.  Sad :'( :'(

[Lizzie Zoom]

I was sorely tempted to reply to the utter drivel, but whats the point ? 

Good point well presented 

And that is the problem in the USA, which is also spreading to us across the pond.  If you cannot understand something, or appreciate another point of view, let alone reach a compromise just dismiss it as “utter drivel” in one sentence as the ignorant have always done throughout mankind’s history on this planet. It is easier than having to use brain cells to discuss the issue in an educated way between two opposing sides.  Very sad.

[Doctor Gollum]

Considering that men can apparently now be pregnant, that's not very open minded of you.

You can't have it both ways*

*unless you're Bi/Them, in which case, anything goes.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Considering that men can apparently now be pregnant, that's not very open minded of you.

You can't have it both ways*

*unless you're Bi/Them, in which case, anything goes.

The US is f*ucked.

The religious right believe life is sacred but like guns......whilst the democrats on the left bang on about abortion but can't define what a woman is, and think a man can give birth.

[Lizzie Zoom]

Considering that men can apparently now be pregnant, that's not very open minded of you.

You can't have it both ways*

*unless you're Bi/Them, in which case, anything goes.

Is that the best you can do?!

[Lizzie Zoom]

For those who are not particularly squeamish the link below has a photo of the collection of cells that make up an 18 week foetus.

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2019/nov/18/foetus-images-lennart-nilsson-photojournalist

The UK's term limit is 24 weeks and most Western European countries limits are between 12 and 14 weeks. France for example bans abortion after 12 weeks.

Apparently the new laws in Florida, Virginia and Mississippi will ban abortion after 15 weeks making them more liberal than France and most other Western European countries.  Who knew?     

Some US states will of course enact complete bans.

And that is the problem.

Women must have the right to decide whether or not to keep a pregnancy up to an acceptable time limit. They may be pregnant due to being rapped, or forced upon by a predatory male husband or partner, or discover that a serious medical situation is now involved in their case.

It is not a case of falling pregnant and deciding you cannot afford it so don’t get pregnant in the first place.  That is a typical ignorant male argument who cannot envisage there being many other factors in each case of a women finding out she is expecting.

We as women have the right to decide, within a decent time limit, what will happen to our bodies and psychological state if we continue with a pregnancy. It should be no one’s business but that of the women given her circumstances, and in the context of the USA that is being discussed in this thread, the huge financial commitment as they will not benefit from a free health care system.

It cannot be down to any man to decide the rules for a women up to a certain time limit, may it be 14, 24, or any other limit of weeks, as they can simply walk away from it all if so inclined to do so. It must always be down to the women to decide her fate at that stage, and that of the collection of cells she has inside her.

What has transpired in the US is a real step backwards, and a further step in the decline of that once great country.  This is a very divisive legal / political decision that has instantly further divided this nation, which in recent years is adding to my belief that, like all great empires, is now imploding after their American century.  For US women though, they will now suffer from this bad decision and many lives will be lost due to the medically correct early pregnancy decisions not being able to be enacted to terminate due to a legal / political decision taken by their Supreme Court. :'( :'( :'(

I tend to agree with most of what Lizzie says.....I shall now lay down in a darkened room.

The 'travel part' puts me in mind of the NI situation were women would come across to England. I think the law has now been changed.

  Thanks Opti

It may surprise you but I do actually agree with you on more than you think. That is once I allow for your posts designed for a male orientated forum……

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

https://youtu.be/kIQ9R25hXPo

Speaking of men giving birth ( and having an abortion) and other 'emperors new clothes b*ollocks'

I thought this pair were kids TV presenters because of the colours, but sadly no.......

[Lizzie Zoom]

Considering that men can apparently now be pregnant, that's not very open minded of you.

You can't have it both ways*

*unless you're Bi/Them, in which case, anything goes.

The US is f*ucked.

The religious right believe life is sacred but like guns......whilst the democrats on the left bang on about abortion but can't define what a woman is, and think a man can give birth.

You see Opti, I totally agree with that point of view as I have been warning about it for years now

Very sad, but more than that it means dictators existing, like Putin, and others to come will gamble on that fact and do what they want to do without the fear / respect of the USA that would have existed in the past.

Bad news for all in the democratic world.