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[STEMO]

For me, personally, it's just another step towards 'Please nuke the west, Vlad, it's way past it's sell by date'

[Migalot]

Seems very few understand that this ruling merely returns the question of abortion law from Federal to State level as Roe vs. Wade was legally unconstitutional.

But never let acts get in the way of a good riot. 

[STEMO]

I think most people understand perfectly, you condescending bastard. The fact remains that over 20 states can now enact or reinstate their own abortion laws, with probably more to follow. As I stated earlier, this creates problems for females living within those states who cannot afford to travel for an abortion. A totally barbaric two tier system where, in some states, women are denied rights that have been established in the civilised world for decades.
But never let the facts get in the way of logging in for a quick snipe, as is your wont.

[Doctor Gollum]

You're not you when you're hungry

It’s a valid point though. Some states have been at odds with the status quo and have strong legislation protecting the rights of women to free choice and others have passed legislation to allow abortion in certain specific circumstances whilst effectively making abortion illegal from six weeks, when apparently a woman may not realise they are pregnant.

Obviously, the ideal is not to have unplanned pregnancies, but that is as much to do with education as it is with archaic laws. And unfortunately many Americans take their religion seriously, regardless of social status and politics... So perhaps things should start there.

Outlawing abortion may gave been appropriate at a time when it was medically dangerous, but that was, or should have been, a lifetime ago 

[Migalot]

I think most people understand perfectly, you condescending bastard.

Nasty, nasty comment. Civility is obviously not your forte

I was referring to the many in the US who have been whipped up into a frenzy since the leaked ruling and who will now choose to resort to violence. Besides which, what the SCOTUS rules is hardly our business. 

[Sir Tigger KC]

Well whatever your thoughts on the rights and wrongs of abortion and the laws in America, this will certainly bring a new dimension to elections at State level.

It might not work out so well for America's bible bashing conservative ultras. 

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

I heard a nutter on the radio this morning who insisted a woman should not be allowed an abortion even when raped by a stranger or inseminated by her father or brother (or both ).....It's not the fault of the unborn was his persistent mantra.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Well whatever your thoughts on the rights and wrongs of abortion and the laws in America, this will certainly bring a new dimension to elections at State level.

It might not work out so well for America's bible bashing conservative ultras. 

As we grow older and mature we tend to get more 'right leaning'......however the religious right and 'no abortion are any cost' crazies are not for me.

[Sir Tigger KC]

Well whatever your thoughts on the rights and wrongs of abortion and the laws in America, this will certainly bring a new dimension to elections at State level.

It might not work out so well for America's bible bashing conservative ultras. 

As we grow older and mature we tend to get more 'right leaning'......however the religious right and 'no abortion are any cost' crazies are not for me.

No me neither, but I do think that abortion is a somewhat abstract concept for most people.

I reckon most people would be utterly appalled if they saw what goes in the bucket after an abortion. 

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Ok - devils advocate, cat among the pigeons etc.
Apart from the fact that abortion has become almost, just another from of contraception - how can it be promoted on the grounds of a woman having the right to choose over her own body ?
The state of being pregnant is a woman having another body inside her body.
Whatever the problems or issues around a pregnancy, is killing the baby really the best solution ?
When abortions are carried out after the fetus has developed into a recognisable small human, I have been told that it involves pulling off its various limbs and head in order to get it out easily
If thats the case, is it really right and moral ?
In these days of freely available contraception in all its forms, why are there so many abortions anyway ?

Whatever the arguments, and rights & wrongs of the whole thing - when you have a left wing nutter like Hilary Clinton stating that abortion, right up to the moment of delivery is perfectly fine, you will get a reaction against it.
To my mind, a reasonable compromise might be to allow it while it is still a bunch of cells, but have a cut off point before it is actually a recognisable baby ?
Medical advances over the years mean that babies are now born prematurely, and survive, who could have been legally aborted.
That doesnt sit quite right with me.
Im honestly not sure about the whole thing tbh, but Im not just going to go along with the accepted wisdom either, without questioning it.

And no, Im not a Catholic. Far from it actually. 

[Doctor Gollum]

Texas draw the line at a measurable pulse, approximately six weeks.

Under their law, the father can sue if the mother has an abortion after this point unless they raped her/directly related (parent/sibling) in which case they lose their 'right' to sue. Similarly for medical reasons.

This isn't the same as protecting the mother from prosecution, but does at least allow some leeway for getting an abortion elsewhere.

Forcing an unwanted pregnancy to run full term does not achieve much as it potentially destroys the livelihood of the mother and you can almost guarantee that the infant will be straight up for adoption. And that's just the start of a whole different problem. Growing up knowing that you were totally unwanted never ends well.

Fundamentally the choice should be that of the pregnant woman/girl, not of society or government, but there obviously a necessity to have some formal guidance in place and access to swift treatment to not only reach a legal decision but also medically on a case by case basis.

Unfortunately once the legal system gets involved, everything turns to molasses and no one wins

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Ok - devils advocate, cat among the pigeons etc.
Apart from the fact that abortion has become almost, just another from of contraception - how can it be promoted on the grounds of a woman having the right to choose over her own body ?
The state of being pregnant is a woman having another body inside her body.
Whatever the problems or issues around a pregnancy, is killing the baby really the best solution ?
When abortions are carried out after the fetus has developed into a recognisable small human, I have been told that it involves pulling off its various limbs and head in order to get it out easily
If thats the case, is it really right and moral ?
In these days of freely available contraception in all its forms, why are there so many abortions anyway ?

Whatever the arguments, and rights & wrongs of the whole thing - when you have a left wing nutter like Hilary Clinton stating that abortion, right up to the moment of delivery is perfectly fine, you will get a reaction against it.
To my mind, a reasonable compromise might be to allow it while it is still a bunch of cells, but have a cut off point before it is actually a recognisable baby ?
Medical advances over the years mean that babies are now born prematurely, and survive, who could have been legally aborted.
That doesnt sit quite right with me.
Im honestly not sure about the whole thing tbh, but Im not just going to go along with the accepted wisdom either, without questioning it.

And no, Im not a Catholic. Far from it actually. 

If it was put there by a rapist or her dad, then yes.

The left are trying to push the time limits though and this can lead to problems. Abortions at forty weeks for example.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Texas draw the line at a measurable pulse, approximately six weeks.

Under their law, the father can sue if the mother has an abortion after this point unless they raped her/directly related (parent/sibling) in which case they lose their 'right' to sue. Similarly for medical reasons.

This isn't the same as protecting the mother from prosecution, but does at least allow some leeway for getting an abortion elsewhere.

Forcing an unwanted pregnancy to run full term does not achieve much as it potentially destroys the livelihood of the mother and you can almost guarantee that the infant will be straight up for adoption. And that's just the start of a whole different problem. Growing up knowing that you were totally unwanted never ends well.

Fundamentally the choice should be that of the pregnant woman/girl, not of society or government, but there obviously a necessity to have some formal guidance in place and access to swift treatment to not only reach a legal decision but also medically on a case by case basis.

Unfortunately once the legal system gets involved, everything turns to molasses and no one wins

Elizabeth  Warren  was spitting feathers as she used the term 'pregnant people'  so as not to exclude the men who can also drop a sprog in 2022.  

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

An unwanted pregnancy running to full term can cause serious problems in later life for the child. Ive seen it first hand.
There are also a lot of adopted people who grow up to have very fulfilling rewarding lives in adulthood.
However, the question still remains, is getting rid of the baby a solution to the problems that may possibly occur ?
Taking it the next step further, why not make it legal for Mothers to kill their children after they have been born, because they  decide they dont want them.
Why is it fundamentally so very different when the child is still inside the Mothers body ?
It seems the whole argument is framed around woman being free to live their lives without constraints being placed on them by society in general and men in particular.
Problem is, it doesnt take any rights of the unborn child into account, because it is deemed that the baby has no rights, including the right to live until it is born. It is just a part of its mothers body until its born, just like an appendix.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

An unwanted pregnancy running to full term can cause serious problems in later life for the child. Ive seen it first hand.
There are also a lot of adopted people who grow up to have very fulfilling rewarding lives in adulthood.
However, the question still remains, is getting rid of the baby a solution to the problems that may possibly occur ?
Taking it the next step further, why not make it legal for Mothers to kill their children after they have been born, because they  decide they dont want them.
Why is it fundamentally so very different when the child is still inside the Mothers body ?
It seems the whole argument is framed around woman being free to live their lives without constraints being placed on them by society in general and men in particular.
Problem is, it doesnt take any rights of the unborn child into account, because it is deemed that the baby has no rights, including the right to live until it is born. It is just a part of its mothers body until its born, just like an appendix.

It is an imperfect compromise.

The woman has the right to abort.....but only up to a certain point.

Some on the left (hopefully very few) want the right to abort right up to birth. The law in the UK is probably about right.