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[mantahatch]

Love or loathe her this story makes me think there is little hope for some people in the UK http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19560284

I wonder how many people would be happy buying and selling these T shirts if it was their mother on it.

[cam2502]

Didn't like the woman but can't agree with selling these.

[Raymienets]

Hated a lot more up here than she was down south. where do we start the Poll tax, the miners strike.

[Abiton]

When I read the truncated thread title from the home page "Margaret Thatcher de.." I had a moment of joy.
Now disappointed.
Repugnant hag.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Has she dropped off the perch?

[cleggy]

Only the GREATEST Prime minister we ever had, the only one with BALLS

[Marks DTM Calib]

Indeed, I would choose her over any of the idiots we have had in the last 15 years

[The Red Baron]

Indeed, I would choose her over any of the idiots we have had in the last 15 years

agree with you on that mark. 

[Raymienets]

Only the GREATEST Prime minister we ever had, the only one with BALLS

Obviously you never seen innocent folk getting there belongings taken out there house by sheriff officers due to illegal warrent sales, because as you say your GREATEST Prime minister decided to use the Scots as Guinea pigs for her poll tax, to which many could not afford. Not going to respond to this thread anymore as there a lot of good folk on here and I would not like to fall out with them over this thread, which I could do very easily.

[mantahatch]

What she did right or wrong is not the point of this thread.

[The Red Baron]

What she did right or wrong is not the point of this thread.

correct.
t.shirts are in bad taste imho.

[Kevin Wood]

What she did right or wrong is not the point of this thread.

correct.
t.shirts are in bad taste imho.

Yep, and indicative of how far the credibility of the unions (and those bankrolled by them) should be taken, IMHO.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Thatcher is always going to be a "marmite" personality.

Some will worship the ground she walked on, and some will................................................

Take your pick.  

[Nickbat]

The point is that the T-Shirts are a grotesque affront against common decency. Says more about the standards (or lack thereof) of the so-called caring socialists than it does about Mrs Thatcher.

[markrnorton]

The T-shirts are in very bad taste, the TUC and unions in general are an out-dated concept now, should be banned. They persistantly try to hold the country to ransom every time there is an 'issue'
I think most people have very little sympathy for them now, this T-shirt stunt just shows the kind of mentality decent folk have to deal with.

[razzo]

This Hampton muppet only has the balls to have a pop at a frail 86 year old woman suffering from dementia who is in no position to retaliate, i do hope he never crosses the road in front of me 

[albitz]

It wasnt just T shirts.It was a party pack,to be used at parties to celebrate her death when it happens.As already said,love her or loather her,its an affront to common decency,an the fact that stallS selling them at the TUC conference actually sold out before the wave of bad publicity prompted the TUC to ask the stallholders to stop selling them,says so much about people on the left of politics in the country these days.
I have sympathy with those,particularily in the north,who have nothing but scorn for her,(I detested her at the time),but to put things in their historical perspective - the country had been brought to its knees,to the point of ruin,by extreme left wing unions.
Governments were scared of them,the country was paralysed by strikes,they demanded (and got) 20% - 30% wage rises year oafter year,which caused rampant inflation,and ended up with the chancellor (Healey) going cap in hand to the world bank for a handout.
They deliberately took all of the great out of Britain,as they were on a mission to overthrow capitalism,and they came very close to succeeding.
The country was all but finished and someone had to have the backbone to do something.Much of what she did needed to be done and thank god she did it,but imo she was spiteful,and in some respects went further than she should have done,probably for the pure pleasure of it.
The result was the complete loss of the coal industry,shipbuilding etc.etc. and the country could really do with having those industries now. Imo,once she had beaten Scargill into humiliation she could have let it be known that she would carry on regardless if the other unions didnt come to their senses and moderate their actions,but instead she carrie on full steam ahead and left a legacy of wasted potential in the North which it has never really recovered from. She also destroyed the Tory vote (probably forever) in Northern England and Scotland.
Re the miners strike. No use blaming her for that debacle tbh.The miners were the proudest,most loyal trade unionists of them all,and that hateful moron Scargill used,abused and manipulated the miners for his own ego and political cause. Evan his own wife gave up on him in the end and left him to his own dillussions.
He destroyed the NUM and gave Thatcher the perfect opportunity to do what she did.If he had half a brain and a normal sized ago,the course of history would almost certainly been so much different.

[tigers_gonads]

Well said albitz 
100% true imo.

Iirc, after the muppets voted Scargill in as life time president, he changed the NUM rules, making it imposible for them to remove him.
Even today, that tosser is milking the union funds for his own needs 

[albitz]

He is in a long running battle with whats left off the NUM due to the fact that he bought a flat in the Barbican in London from union funds and made a rule that he could use it for life.The union want to sell the flat to release the funds for use by union members,but he has taken them to the high court to prevent them from doing so. Imo that tells us all we need to know about him.
If former miners are of a mid to celebrate anyones demise,it should he his,as it was he who destroyed their union,and opened the door for all that came afterwards.

[tigers_gonads]

He is in a long running battle with whats left off the NUM due to the fact that he bought a flat in the Barbican in London from union funds and made a rule that he could use it for life.The union want to sell the flat to release the funds for use by union members,but he has taken them to the high court to prevent them from doing so. Imo that tells us all we need to know about him.
If former miners are of a mid to celebrate anyones demise,it should he his,as it was he who destroyed their union,and opened the door for all that came afterwards.

Something like that 
Could not be arsed to google it or check the spelling 

[waspy]

At the time she was in power I didn't like the women, though she gets my respect for not being spineless like the prime ministers we've had since.
The T-shirts are in bad taste, but I totally hate that fat slob Brown & I would like to know where he gets buried for when I need a wee

[Rods2]

I thinking wishing any democratically elected politician dead is in very bad taste whether you agree with their politics or not. They are somebodies: Father, mother, brother, sister, uncle, aunt and friend and this should never by forgotten.

[TheBoy]

Some people can never get over the fact that the government is not a bottomless pit of cash. She did what she had to do to save the country. And she suceeded where all those wet dreams that followed failed. Hence, 'we' are now utterly screwed again. Although after 13yrs of the previous duo, we were only ever going to be in one position. And the current 2 - the best of what is available - haven't the balls to get us out of it.

[SteveAvfc.]

It's probably fair to say that the self abusers who came up with these T shirts were only tadpoles in there old mans scroat when she was in power so never actually witnessed what she did. Controversial she may have been but she had bigger balls than anyone who has followed.   

[Dishevelled Den]

Love or loathe her this story makes me think there is little hope for some people in the UK http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19560284

I wonder how many people would be happy buying and selling these T shirts if it was their mother on it.

Yes I certainly agree with that.

While Margaret Thatcher was lauded and loathed in seemingly equal measure (and indeed remains so) to wish such fate on any person shows a woeful lack of intellect and a disturbing absence of humanity.

Like Manta I am increasingly concerned about the direction many in this country are taking - this disappointing attitude bodes ill not only for those who practice it but also for the fortunes of this country as a whole.

[Kevin Wood]

Agreed with the above. She represents the last of the politicians who did what she thought was right for the future of the country, whatever flak that attracted to her personally and however people regarded her for it.

The generations that have followed her have become increasingly self-serving, doing what suits their own interests, tweeking things here and there, just gestures aimed at brushing the problems we face under the carpet until their term is up rather than making the tough, long term decisions needed, lest they upset the apple cart somewhere and spoil their eventual excession to the gravy train that is Brussels.

[tigers_gonads]

Love or loathe her this story makes me think there is little hope for some people in the UK http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19560284

I wonder how many people would be happy buying and selling these T shirts if it was their mother on it.

Yes I certainly agree with that.

While Margaret Thatcher was lauded and loathed in seemingly equal measure (and indeed remains so) to wish such fate on any person shows a woeful lack of intellect and a disturbing absence of humanity.

Like Manta I am increasingly concerned about the direction many in this country are taking - this disappointing attitude bodes ill not only for those who practice it but also for the fortunes of this country as a whole.

Morally this country has been knackerd for years and it will only get worse.
There are too many people in this country have little or no respect for anybody but themselfs.
I fear for our children future.

[big mel]

I would not death on my worst enemy' even thatcher what goes around comes around.

[stewart000]

Didnt like her in the slightest with all the privatisation,
but the T-shirts are not in any way good

[Nickbat]

All the more odious when you read the following:

The Derbyshire Unemployed Workers’ Centre who were selling the t-shirts are publicly funded organisation:  “According to the DUWC 2011 Annual Report, their Chairman is Cllr Graham Baxter MBE, the Leader of North East Derbyshire Council… On page 8 of the same report, the “Fundraising” section lists money received from Bolsover District Council, North East Derbyshire District Council and Chesterfield Borough Council, as well as grants from no less than 11 County Councillors.”

http://order-order.com/2012/09/12/tory-mp-damns-public-money-for-maggie-death-dancers/

Publicly-funded scum. Don't you just love it? 

[albitz]

Well,this should be the perfect excuse to unhitch them from the gravy train forthwith.

[Lazydocker]

Have taken my time thinking about this one

Thatcher made some very tough decisions. Like it or not, she did turn this country around and get it out of the poo it was in TBH, we could do with someone in power now who had half the balls she had

As for the actual subject matter... Disgusted is all I can actually manage without giving the swear filter a work out

[Marks DTM Calib]

I always find the discussions regarding privatisation and mine closures etc interesting yet nobody ever answers the question as to who is going to pay the subsidies to support them when in public ownership.

We get th same today, we cant cut this, that and the other....ok, so where is the cash coming from then, are we going to borrow more?

Hard decisions and to be honest the miners got what they deserved

[albitz]

I wouldnt say they got what they deserved tbh.They had a very strong culture of loyalty to their union,which in days gone by when they were virtually slaves was very admirable imo. It sprung from times when mine owners would be above ground,having a tally ho hunt on horseback around their country estates,while the miners were a mile underneath them,working in inhuman conditions,and very often being killed or maimed in the process. If they get to retirement age their respiratory system would probably be wrecked,so the retirement would be miserable and short.
The mine owners also owned the houses they lived in and would evict them if they dared complain about thier conditions.
To fight and win against that type of oppression is a great thing,and created the loyalty to the union and formed those very close communities that the indeustrial north was famous for.
Scargill used & abused that loyalty in the most cynical way and he should be reviled for it imo,but of course the left wont let that happen as it wouldnt fit their mindset. Instead they still try to portray him as a great general in the class war.
I would imagine it was very difficult for miners at the time to see the big picture,and those who did had a very hard time of it.
It tore families,friendships and communities apart.There was even a murder within a family over it iirc.
Scargill needed dealing with and the unions needed most of their power removing and forced to be reasonable representatives of their members aspirations,rather than class warriors who were going to overthrow the evil British capitalist state.
It would imo have been possible to retain a mining and heavy industrial base when that job was done. It would needed to have been privatised of course and made its way in the real commercial world,but there was no reason why that couldnt be done.It would have been better than shutting down the whole industry.
Thiscountry now imports large amounts of very expensive foreign coal because we dont have a mining industry,that didnt need to happen.
It may surprise you to know that Norman Tebbit also thinks along the same lines now. " The job had to be done,but in some respects we went too far" is what he said a couple of years ago.

[albitz]

Have taken my time thinking about this one

Thatcher made some very tough decisions. Like it or not, she did turn this country around and get it out of the poo it was in TBH, we could do with someone in power now who had half the balls she had As for the actual subject matter... Disgusted is all I can actually manage without giving the swear filter a work out

Absolutely,but such a person apparently no longer exists within the main parties

[stewart000]

I always find the discussions regarding privatisation and mine closures etc interesting yet nobody ever answers the question as to who is going to pay the subsidies to support them when in public ownership.

We get th same today, we cant cut this, that and the other....ok, so where is the cash coming from then, are we going to borrow more?

Hard decisions and to be honest the miners got what they deserved

where is the cash coming from you ask, if a Keynesian approach was used things would be much better. people are kept in work, yes maybe via subsidies, but those people are working, not on benefits, they are paying tax, and have money to spend, and that keeps more people employed, so fewer people on benefits.

[albitz]

Imo that approach will never lead to a healthy economy in the longer term.Jobs need to be real jobs which earn income for companies in the real commercial world.That approach has been used in recent years to justify the creation of approx 750,000 extra jobs in the public sector.The country cannot any longer afford to finance those jobs (including the pensions etc. that go along with them) and there is now an outcry because the task of culling them is underway.
The only answer is to stimulate genuine growth in the economy,and that is what we are sorely lacking at the moment. Hampered and hamstrung by the EU,and being led around in circles by a seemingly clueless chancellor.
The only positive in the situation is that we can be certain it would be a hell of a lot worse if the previous bunch of morons were still in the treasury.The situation wouldnt be any where near as bad if they hadnt wrecked the economy when they were in charge.

[Marks DTM Calib]

But way more expensive, a lot of these thinsg were subsidised to the order of 50% of cost and no matter how you look at it, that is not sustainable.

It gets worse when you consider ship building, we so can not compete with the likes of Brazil, China, India on cost and hence the result is no orders.

There comes a point where you have to face the reality that these industries have to go with the resulting job losses for things to move on or you end up paying for mines with no output and yards with no ships.

[Nick W]

Scargill used & abused that loyalty in the most cynical way and he should be reviled for it imo,but of course the left wont let that happen as it wouldnt fit their mindset. Instead they still try to portray him as a great general in the class war.
I would imagine it was very difficult for miners at the time to see the big picture,and those who did had a very hard time of it.
It tore families,friendships and communities apart.There was even a murder within a family over it iirc.
Scargill needed dealing with and the unions needed most of their power removing and forced to be reasonable representatives of their members aspirations,rather than class warriors who were going to overthrow the evil British capitalist state.

My Grandfather always claimed that once the unions started using their membership to work at politics, rather than use politics to work for their membership it was always going to end badly. And he was  a man who was heavily involved(albeit locally) in his union from the day he got home from the army in 1944 until the day he died in 1992, at which point he'd been retired for twenty years.

We cannot put all the blame for the wrecking of British industry on the unions though. For instance, a quick look at how BMC/BL/Austin Rover/Rover 'developed' it's obvious that the inept, incompetent management was equally culpable.

[Dishevelled Den]

Scargill used & abused that loyalty in the most cynical way and he should be reviled for it imo,but of course the left wont let that happen as it wouldnt fit their mindset. Instead they still try to portray him as a great general in the class war.
I would imagine it was very difficult for miners at the time to see the big picture,and those who did had a very hard time of it.
It tore families,friendships and communities apart.There was even a murder within a family over it iirc.
Scargill needed dealing with and the unions needed most of their power removing and forced to be reasonable representatives of their members aspirations,rather than class warriors who were going to overthrow the evil British capitalist state.

My Grandfather always claimed that once the unions started using their membership to work at politics, rather than use politics to work for their membership it was always going to end badly. And he was  a man who was heavily involved(albeit locally) in his union from the day he got home from the army in 1944 until the day he died in 1992, at which point he'd been retired for twenty years.

We cannot put all the blame for the wrecking of British industry on the unions though. For instance, a quick look at how BMC/BL/Austin Rover/Rover 'developed' it's obvious that the inept, incompetent management was equally culpable.

For instance, a quick look at how BMC/BL/Austin Rover/Rover 'developed' it's obvious that the inept, incompetent management was equally culpable

Yes, an important point Nick.